Meeting with Immigration a missed opportunity

[Max69xl]

On 9/3/2019 at 12:58 PM, Bangkok Barry said:

 

How does that relate to the meeting with expats in Bangkok?

No one with a 1 year visa has to leave every 90 days. You are talking about the 90 days Non-immigrant O Multiple Entry Visa. Others with Long Stay Visas or 1 year extensions never leave the country unless they want to and have a re-entry permit.

[Golden Triangle]

2 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Sorry about the top of this post - not sure how to remove it.

 

What is the point of watching a video which has no plot, no surprises and no happy ending? The meeting was entirely pointless and produced nothing at all, as surely everyone expected. And the Thai authorities know us only as Aliens, not Foreigners. Just trying to adapt to the local lingo. Out of respect to them, you know????

I can't quite get my head around you commenting on something that you admit you have not seen but take individual comments from strangers as gospel !! Perhaps if you make some time in your obviously busy schedule and actually bother to watch it then you can comment with confidence, you can see the body language of the useless Thai immigration people. maybe even see the Thai woman address them (fairly angrily) in English & Thai and get a feel for the whole thing.

 

Your useless OP is tantamount to me dissing a new movie I haven't seen or a new music album or track I haven't listened, it's uninformed and useless.

[jondoe18]

6 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

I can't quite get my head around you commenting on something that you admit you have not seen but take individual comments from strangers as gospel !! Perhaps if you make some time in your obviously busy schedule and actually bother to watch it then you can comment with confidence, you can see the body language of the useless Thai immigration people. maybe even see the Thai woman address them (fairly angrily) in English & Thai and get a feel for the whole thing.

 

Your useless OP is tantamount to me dissing a new movie I haven't seen or a new music album or track I haven't listened, it's uninformed and useless.

It's not worth watching .

[wreckingcountry]

Don’t expect rational common sense thinking fro Thai immigration or anything else in the country


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Matzzon]

On 9/3/2019 at 7:58 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

 

How does that relate to the meeting with expats in Bangkok?

You could have solved everything by just beeing there, and be the one that really stood up and asked all the nessessary questions. We would really have been needing you there. It would have made all the change.

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

You are talking about the 90 days Non-immigrant O Multiple Entry Visa.

 

Yes. Are those with such visas and the way they are treated not a concern?

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

I can't quite get my head around you commenting on something that you admit you have not seen but take individual comments from strangers as gospel !! Perhaps if you make some time in your obviously busy schedule and actually bother to watch it then you can comment with confidence, you can see the body language of the useless Thai immigration people. maybe even see the Thai woman address them (fairly angrily) in English & Thai and get a feel for the whole thing.

 

Your useless OP is tantamount to me dissing a new movie I haven't seen or a new music album or track I haven't listened, it's uninformed and useless.

 

I've said the meeting achieved nothing, and an extended list of problems that exist, which I gave, could have been discussed. I really don't need to watch a video of a meeting which achieved nothing at all. Why would I? Of course people might have been angry, even Thai people, but it still achieved absolutely nothing. My 'useless OP', which is something you are pretty much alone in declaring, was surely no more useless than a meeting that achieved nothing.

 

If you disagree that it achieved nothing, perhaps you can tell me what the meeting has accomplished, other than to let people let off steam

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

You could have solved everything by just beeing there, and be the one that really stood up and asked all the nessessary questions. We would really have been needing you there. It would have made all the change.

 

That thought had crossed my mind.

[Max69xl]

8 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Yes. Are those with such visas and the way they are treated not a concern?

Treated? They applied for that Visa for a reason. I guess mainly because they don't meet the requirements, financially or to young for retirement Visas. The way they use them,leaving every 89 days and enters again,is not the way they were intended. 

[sherwood]

Hi BB, thank you for your concern on my behalf as a vise holder in Thailand however, I do not need or appreciate your <deleted>.

You want to stay in Thailand, do as you should do. 

Now POQ,

Thanks

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, wreckingcountry said:

Don’t expect rational common sense thinking fro Thai immigration or anything else in the country


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

No, not anymore. That we can thank all the rule breaking and obstinate foreigners for.

[Bangkok Barry]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

No, not anymore. That we can thank all the rule breaking and obstinate foreigners for.

 

Speaking of rule breaking, my wife was asked to pay a fine of 2000 baht today for not reporting my return to the family home. However, she was 'invited' to come to an arrangement and only parted with 500 baht, no receipt. So much for the TM30 being about national security.

[Bangkok Barry]

28 minutes ago, sherwood said:

Hi BB, thank you for your concern on my behalf as a vise holder in Thailand however, I do not need or appreciate your <deleted>.

You want to stay in Thailand, do as you should do. 

Now POQ,

Thanks

 

As you wish. Your no doubt unsavoury comment, which appears to have been automatically deleted by those more responsible, appears to be pretty much alone on this thread. I don't think, from your attitude, that I would want to represent you in any way, about anything, and I didn't claim to. I'm not claiming to represent anyone, just giving a point of view. Sorry if you were offended by my raising unfortunate and sometimes illogical aspects of immigration office policy.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Bangkok Barry

[Matzzon]

5 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Speaking of rule breaking, my wife was asked to pay a fine of 2000 baht today for not reporting my return to the family home. However, she was 'invited' to come to an arrangement and only parted with 500 baht, no receipt. So much for the TM30 being about national security.

Hey Barry! That´s not called rule breaking. That´s called the private discretion owned by any single Immigration Officer. //sarcasm ended ????

[sherwood]

7 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

As you wish. Your no doubt unsavoury comment, which appears to have been automatically deleted by those more responsible, appears to be pretty much alone on this thread.

Bankok Barry, the deleted word was not that bad and believe me I am being responsible in my intention of staying in this country for as long as I can.

 

Things are not that bad, yet, I have a Thai wife, daughter and a house we own, a block of farming land and life is good.

 

I have a Visa, extension and do not begrudge doing the 90 day report, TM 30 requirement or anything else the powers that be require of me, as yet.

 

What I do have a problem with is people representing themselves on my behalf, as an Expat, without my authority. I do not go around kicking hornets nests.

 

If people want to stay here legally it is still possable and not that hard to do. Maybe I am lucky or my paper work is up to scratch, we will see but please one and all, you will not win by fighting these rules. If you come across corrupt IO's, that is just part of living in this world.

 

Do not panic.

 

Regards 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

On 9/3/2019 at 7:24 AM, ColeBOzbourne said:

We are guests in their country, I don't believe we have the right to make demands. I really don't like it when foreigners go to my country (USA) and make demands.

Guests???? We are treated like criminals, not guests. no fairminded person would actually think we are "guests" in this Banana Republic country.

I ask you CB, do you seriously believe you are a "guest" in this country??

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, sherwood said:

Bankok Barry, the deleted word was not that bad and believe me I am being responsible in my intention of staying in this country for as long as I can.

 

Things are not that bad, yet, I have a Thai wife, daughter and a house we own, a block of farming land and life is good.

 

I have a Visa, extension and do not begrudge doing the 90 day report, TM 30 requirement or anything else the powers that be require of me, as yet.

 

What I do have a problem with is people representing themselves on my behalf, as an Expat, without my authority. I do not go around kicking hornets nests.

 

If people want to stay here legally it is still possable and not that hard to do. Maybe I am lucky or my paper work is up to scratch, we will see but please one and all, you will not win by fighting these rules. If you come across corrupt IO's, that is just part of living in this world.

 

Do not panic.

 

Regards 

 

 

The saddo is not working.

[lamyai3]

12 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

What is the point of watching a video which has no plot, no surprises and no happy ending? The meeting was entirely pointless and produced nothing at all, as surely everyone expected.

If you'd watched it, you'd have no doubt saved yourself the trouble of drafting the questions in the opening post. As movies go, it would put a dampener on anyone's evening. It's right up there with the one where Lassie choked to death on red tape, surely in line for a 0% fresh rating on rotten tomatoes.

 

However, I don't think the foreign representatives were to blame, even though things became unfocused at times. I think they had no real choice but to limit the scope of the meeting to the TM30 problem. The chair of the event in particular was a seasoned journalist and asked some very direct questions, but the immigration contingent that showed up was half an hour late and the only one with any significant authority wasn't really proficient in English, and at times became visibly irritated, looking as though he was ready to walk out. The other people they sent were of sufficiently low rank that they were unable to answer anything other than a few technical questions. The overall response was very noncommittal, and pointed questions were met with vague platitudes like "the law is the law", and regarding the app "it's easier than telling your wife your home". Later on the IO who'd said this admitted that he couldn't even get home to see his eight months pregnant wife as he was stuck at work till 10pm every night trying to deal with the backlog of online TM30 applications awaiting usernames and passwords. When confronted with the fact that their administrative chaos was a self-inflicted wound, they reverted to embarrassed silence. Whatever questions people had taken in there failed to land, except in the very loose sense of "we'll take your comments back with us", and "we're trying to make the system better".

 

Regarding your questions (which are much wider in scope than the current TM30 issue), it's worth reminding that a meeting took place back in January, at the same venue, at which the chief of immigration actually did show up. Some of these points were raised back then, and the following speaks volumes regarding how much immigration's word is worth, considering all that's unfolded since that time:

Surachate said he’s drafting suggested amendments to the 1979 immigration law to make things smoother for expats seeking to reside, retire or work in the kingdom.

"I can guarantee it will be easy to apply and live here,” Surachate said. “[But] bad people will have a hard time.”

Proposed changes include abolishing 90-day reports and introducing 10-year visas for foreign retirees, Surachate said.

“The amendment process will take probably about two or three months,”

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2019/01/16/superstar-cop-big-joke-on-his-rise-and-plans-for-expats-visas/

Edited September 5, 2019 by lamyai3

[john ianson]

On 9/3/2019 at 1:32 PM, ThaiBunny said:

Why do some people persist in demanding that Thailand be exactly like their home country?

You certainly are a Thai bunny ! Everything being said here goes straight past you to the keeper ! Just trying to bring Thailand into the real world !

[john ianson]

9 hours ago, sherwood said:

Bankok Barry, the deleted word was not that bad and believe me I am being responsible in my intention of staying in this country for as long as I can.

 

Things are not that bad, yet, I have a Thai wife, daughter and a house we own, a block of farming land and life is good.

 

I have a Visa, extension and do not begrudge doing the 90 day report, TM 30 requirement or anything else the powers that be require of me, as yet.

 

What I do have a problem with is people representing themselves on my behalf, as an Expat, without my authority. I do not go around kicking hornets nests.

 

If people want to stay here legally it is still possable and not that hard to do. Maybe I am lucky or my paper work is up to scratch, we will see but please one and all, you will not win by fighting these rules. If you come across corrupt IO's, that is just part of living in this world.

 

Do not panic.

 

Regards 

 

 

You do NOT own any land ! Not ONE square inch of land !

[Lacessit]

Thailand has always been protectionist - of jobs, the status quo, and the Thai way of life. Change is abhorred.

Tourists do not represent a threat. Most are here for what is readily available and on sale, and are gone in a couple of weeks.

Longer-term stayers such as retirees and work-permit holders are viewed as a threat, because they may bring in ideas which are inimical to the comfortable existence of the people on top of the food chain. Hence hedge these farangs around with restrictions, because the less patient will go elsewhere.

It's not rocket science. Learn the language to communicate. Live quietly, don't make waves. Employ an agent to smooth the path. Thailand really opens up to those who accept it on Thai terms, and bitching about it in forums and meetings only serves to make things more difficult. Face.

[4MyEgo]

On 9/3/2019 at 1:03 PM, Bangkok Barry said:

Since the meeting with top immigration officials at the Alien Correspondents Club I have felt frustrated at what a lost opportunity it was.

Lost opportunity, because as many have said, immigration officers can only enforce the law, so they were there to answer questions about the TM30 and am sure they got more questions put forward to them than they could answer, suffice to say if the minister for immigration showed up, then perhaps one would stand a chance in asking the questions and getting the answers you so put forward and possibly a chance of getting things changed, if he so felt it appropriate to do so.

 

What I would suggest to you now is, that is, if you wish to remain in Thailand, is to get a password and report online, the sooner you accept that it is, what it is, has been around since 1979, regardless of whether it was enforced, they now feel there is reason to enforce it, and we as guests in their country, have a choice, comply, or depart.

 

I really don't see an issue with it, yes the world is a big place and other countries have different rules to Thailand, but remember where you are and what options you have, in other words, let go and move on, the sooner the better, stay or leave, as the Thai's say, "up to you" and if your looking for commonsense, well you only have yourself to blame, sorry to say Bazza " ????

  

[Bangkok Barry]

17 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Lost opportunity, because as many have said, immigration officers can only enforce the law, so they were there to answer questions about the TM30 and am sure they got more questions put forward to them than they could answer, suffice to say if the minister for immigration showed up, then perhaps one would stand a chance in asking the questions and getting the answers you so put forward and possibly a chance of getting things changed, if he so felt it appropriate to do so.

 

What I would suggest to you now is, that is, if you wish to remain in Thailand, is to get a password and report online, the sooner you accept that it is, what it is, has been around since 1979, regardless of whether it was enforced, they now feel there is reason to enforce it, and we as guests in their country, have a choice, comply, or depart.

 

I really don't see an issue with it, yes the world is a big place and other countries have different rules to Thailand, but remember where you are and what options you have, in other words, let go and move on, the sooner the better, stay or leave, as the Thai's say, "up to you" and if your looking for commonsense, well you only have yourself to blame, sorry to say Bazza " ????

  

 

My post was about far more than the TM30. It was also, in part, about inequality and totally pointless 90-day reporting/exits. While on the TM30, we are regarded as a threat to national security (hence the TM30), but a far greater risk comes from the very people who are policing us, the immigration officers who are happy to take a donation for turning a blind eye. That renders the entire exercise totally pointless and confirms it as simply a money generating scheme.

 

And as I've said over and over again, what was the point of a meeting with people who could only, understandably, say 'it's the law'? That baffles me. A meeting that could not, and did not, achieve anything. Did anyone really expect changes as a result of the meeting? If not, why were they there? If they did expect changes then then they live in a fantasy world.

[4MyEgo]

21 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

My post was about far more than the TM30. It was also, in part, about inequality and totally pointless 90-day reporting/exits. While on the TM30, we are regarded as a threat to national security (hence the TM30), but a far greater risk comes from the very people who are policing us, the immigration officers who are happy to take a donation for turning a blind eye. That renders the entire exercise totally pointless and confirms it as simply a money generating scheme.

 

And as I've said over and over again, what was the point of a meeting with people who could only, understandably, say 'it's the law'? That baffles me. A meeting that could not, and did not, achieve anything. Did anyone really expect changes as a result of the meeting? If not, why were they there? If they did expect changes then then they live in a fantasy world.

I heard you LOUD & CLEAR, but I think my last reply summed it up, in part, copy and pasted below, ????

 

I really don't see an issue with it, yes the world is a big place and other countries have different rules to Thailand, but remember where you are and what options you have, in other words, let go and move on, the sooner the better, stay or leave, as the Thai's say, "up to you" and if your looking for commonsense, well you only have yourself to blame, sorry to say Bazza " ????

[Onrai]

I am new to the Thai nation forum but would like to comment:

No one care about the TM-30 reporting issue other than the people that it is affecting in Thailand. That it even enters world news is surprising. The East Timor genocide under Suharto took years to reach an international audience while 100,000- 300,000 were slaughtered. So much for the power of the press to sway international outrage.

I completely agree that reporting to immigrations if you have spent a night is draconian and a complete waste of time. Hotels and guesthouse are already required to report you to local immigrations, so what is the point of going to your local immigration office and saying,“I’m back”. That said, in the USA,

land of the free, we have the NSA, CIA, FBI, Homeland Security to name a few. You have the director of the NSA admitting that , if they could, they would collect every phone call, every email, every bit of data on every single person in the USA. Read Glen Greenwald’s book “No Place to Hide” on the US surveillance  system. My guess is the Thai government is using a play from a more developed country’s playbook.

From what I have read- no more visa runs are allowed. That means you are going to have to get a Laos Visa to enter Laos and a Thai visa to return to Thailand. Since every other country in SE Asia requires a visa, Thailand will shift to the same requirement. The question is - why did it take them so long to require a visa when they are surrounded by countries that do?

I don’t see any mystery in Thailand setting up a deposit or monthly income to obtain a long term visa. They want to screen out the people that don’t contribute substantially to the economy. Given a choice do they want middle or well to do ex pat retirees or banana pancake trail, hirsute, tattooed, penniless, travelers that contribute little and take advantage of the system. According to one recent thai nation post- foreigners racked up more than 1 million bhat in unpaid medical bills. So which group didn’t pay their bills? 

In closing- the freedom from petty harassment is one of the great, great things about Thailand. As an American-you tow the line- don’t run a traffic light, full stop at a stop sign, dog on leash, use your seat belt, use your turn signal, wear your helmet, on and on and on. In Thailand you are mostly left alone. You are responsible for your safety, not some law whose purpose is to increase the local coffers.

We should be free to travel the country without having to report to immigration when we return. No question. I am just adding perspective to us that have forgotten why we are here in the first place.

 

[Jaxxper]

I guess the OP should have gone to the meeting then we'd have answers to all of those questions or not.......!???

[Bangkok Barry]

1 minute ago, Jaxxper said:

I guess the OP should have gone to the meeting then we'd have answers to all of those questions or not.......!???

 

No. Same as no answer re the TM30 except that it's the law and will continue to be strictly enforced. It would be nice to raise the points though, even if it was a waste of time. Like the meeting was.

[smutcakes]

48 minutes ago, Jaxxper said:

I guess the OP should have gone to the meeting then we'd have answers to all of those questions or not.......!???

You think the UK/USA/AUS immigration chief would entertain a meeting with some disgruntled retired Asians and listen to their whining should the situation be reversed?

I am sure most on here whining would be the 1st to tell the old retirees if they dont like it, fack off.

[Bangkok Barry]

20 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

You think the UK/USA/AUS immigration chief would entertain a meeting with some disgruntled retired Asians and listen to their whining should the situation be reversed?

I am sure most on here whining would be the 1st to tell the old retirees if they dont like it, fack off.

 

You think the UK/USA/AUS authorities would demand aliens, as Thais call us, report their whereabouts if they travel and demand they report that they have returned home? None of those countries treat their 'guests' that way so such a meeting wouldn't be necessary.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Bangkok Barry

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

You think the UK/USA/AUS authorities would demand that people report their whereabouts if they travel and report that they have returned home? Do you know of any other country that demands that, and fines you for not doing so?

The UK/USA & Australia have much tougher entry requirements for living there. I doubt a postman, squaddie or taxi driver from Thailand are likely to ever be retiring in the West as they are unable to be meeting entry requirements. If Thailand had the same entry requirements for living as the UK, half the people whinging now would probably never have been accepted to settle here.

 

Perhaps the UK should follow Thailand in allowing anyone to enter and live here on extensions, phony education visas etc

 

Who gives a toss if you have to report this and that? Its not really that much of an issue. A minor inconvenience. Treated like a criminal, Christ get a grip. You obviously have far to much time on your hands to be constantly thinking about this.