And now, for something completely different...........

[Edheres]

Here's some advice:  If you hold a "Retirement Visa" like I did, and you forget that your Multiple Re-entry Stamp expired, like I did, nothing good will come of it.

 

The Airport Immigration folks were kind and polite when they told me I'd voided my long-stay Visa because of the oversight and gave me a 30-day tourist visa.  My old Retirement Visa was gotten for me by an agent, but since I'd done the extension with no trouble at all, false confidence sent me to Immigration at Chonburi's Jomtien Office to file my TM30 and then fix things.  Long story short - after six (6) trips, a blatant solicitation for a bribe by a uniformed Immigration Officer at Immigration (neither hiding nor shy), three trips to my real-estate office and my condo office for more paperwork, the conclusion was that I was screwed.  The superficial reason was that I rented from a Chinese guy who lives in China and has no Thai Work Permit. Various "solutions" were offered and withdrawn, but my real-estate agent, despite issuing an illegal lease document said it wasn't their problem and I should find an "agent" to fix things.  The real issue was that Jomtien Immigration saw a way to line their pockets since I was in a fix.

 

So I found an agent, paid up 28,000 baht (most of which was bribe money), saw the documentation I was told three times was not sufficient or illegal stuffed into a manila envelope with another thick envelope, which the agent's motorbike taxi took along with me to another visit to Jomtien Immigration (my seventh overall and second for the day). After greeting my agent's "friend" my photo was taken with Immigration Office decor in the background with the friend's personal cell phone (not that little camera on a stick connected to the office computer).  Not ten feet away sat the other female Immigration Officer who reviewed my paperwork previously, asked for more documents and finally concluded my lease would never suffice.  I have never been to Nigeria, but I'd guess Thailand has an edge. At least the Nigerians promise me millions if only I forward my particulars.

 

Oh.........I'll have the  new visa and multiple re-entry fix in two weeks..............

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Edheres
More information

[Lamkyong]

apart from the lapse in you re entry situation  i think your biggest mistake was using an agent  those days are over    all the bumph about     wp etc etc was  twaddle   just to screw you over   be careful out there

[Edheres]

4 minutes ago, Lamkyong said:

apart from the lapse in you re entry situation  i think your biggest mistake was using an agent  those days are over    all the bumph about     wp etc etc was  twaddle   just to screw you over   be careful out there

Maybe I wrote in a confusing way........... I did not use an agent for the extension or in my many attempts at a  fix.  The original Retirement VIsa was via an agent and was not an issue.  Forgetting to renew the re-entry stamp was.   For the fix, I did finally use an agent as no other alternative was available given the nature of my lease and from what I was told and observed, the agent business is alive and well.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Edheres

[Puchaiyank]

Is this a troll to denigrate Thai IOs?   Nothing like this has ever happened in Thailand...kind people, lots of smiles, and garlic.

[bkk6060]

Despite what people think, sorry I find it hard to believe that a uniformed officer at Chonburi office openly asked you for a bribe.  Maybe you misunderstood.

If that happened to me I would immediately complain to the highest supervisor and I bet they would investigate.

 

 

[jackdd]

Why didn't you just check into a hotel for a night, they would do the TM30 which was probably your problem, and then apply for the extension. Would have saved you about 27500 THB

[Edheres]

44 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Despite what people think, sorry I find it hard to believe that a uniformed officer at Chonburi office openly asked you for a bribe.  Maybe you misunderstood.

If that happened to me I would immediately complain to the highest supervisor and I bet they would investigate.

 

 

Well, here's the deal: the fellow got a form for a change in visa after saying my application for a new Retirement visa wouldn't work after reviewing my paperwork. As he started to take my papers and walk away into the central offices (this was at the front desk), I was about to give him the 2,000 baht fee from a pile of bills from my pocket.  He looked in my hand, gestured and said 18,000 baht which was really hard to misinterpret.  I said no, that the fee was 2,000 at which point he handed back my papers and turned away.............

[Edheres]

1 hour ago, Puchaiyank said:

Is this a troll to denigrate Thai IOs?   Nothing like this has ever happened in Thailand...kind people, lots of smiles, and garlic.

I know.......................I'm so ashamed.

[Beggar]

"The superficial reason was that I rented from a Chinese guy who lives in China and has no Thai Work Permit." 

 

Is it like this that if you rent out your own condo that you need a work permit? Could be. 

[Edheres]

42 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Why didn't you just check into a hotel for a night, they would do the TM30 which was probably your problem, and then apply for the extension. Would have saved you about 27500 THB

Because that wasn't the problem.  The TM30 was easy, not an issue and within 24 hours of arriving in Bangkok (I live in Pattaya).  The issue was with my residence records - a rental I've had for two years for the Retirement visa process. They asked for the lease, household registration, a letter from the condo and a map.  When the examiner saw it was a foreigner renting to a foreigner without the former having a work permit, all bets were off. Staying in a hotel for a night would have had no effect at all.  My residence was already on record and I know of no situation where a hotel stay would facilitate a retirement visa............you?  The issue was that my existing retirement visa was negated by the expired multiple re-entry stamp.  If that happens, you start over and starting over, sans agent, triggered the review of everything.

[Edheres]

6 minutes ago, Beggar said:

"The superficial reason was that I rented from a Chinese guy who lives in China and has no Thai Work Permit." 

 

Is it like this that if you rent out your own condo that you need a work permit? Could be. 

Right, that's what I understood from Jomtien Immigration.  Apparently they  figure rental income is like working, so as a foreigner, if you rent, you need the work permit.  Had I rented from a Thai, there would have been no issue (well, you know..............).  My Real Estate people were mum and not helpful other than to say they do it (have foreigners without work permits rent to foreigners) all the time.

 

[Beggar]

1 minute ago, Edheres said:

Right, that's what I understood from Jomtien Immigration.  Apparently they  figure rental income is like working, so as a foreigner, if you rent, you need the work permit.  Had I rented from a Thai, there would have been no issue (well, you know..............).  My Real Estate people were mum and not helpful other than to say they do it (have foreigners without work permits rent to foreigners) all the time.

 

This is bad news for many foreigners renting out their condos ... and even for people renting such condos. 

 

But as you said you have to get a new retirement visa again. As far as I know this is the law. An agent just could try to bend the law ... or just keep your money. So move somewhere else (a legal place) and start everything again. I think this is the best option. Do it without an agent. Ask the immigration what is the easiest way. 

[jackdd]

16 minutes ago, Edheres said:

I know of no situation where a hotel stay would facilitate a retirement visa............you?

Afaik there is no rule that a retiree can't stay in a hotel, do you know any?

People here often don't understand that you don't have to play against the IOs, but play with them.

If i were you, i would have checked into a hotel for a night. Then the next morning i would have gone to immigration, applied for my extension, and told them: "You were totally right, the landlord was probably doing this illegally, because he had no work permit. Because of this i moved out there, and now i stay at this hotel instead." Everything with a smile.

Edited September 3, 2019 by jackdd

[sunnyboy2018]

3 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

apart from the lapse in you re entry situation  i think your biggest mistake was using an agent  those days are over    all the bumph about     wp etc etc was  twaddle   just to screw you over   be careful out there

His mistake was not taking the first offer to sort things out. 

[sunnyboy2018]

15 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Afaik there is no rule that a retiree can't stay in a hotel, do you know any?

People here often don't understand that you don't have to play against the IOs, but play with them.

If i were you, i would have checked into a hotel for a night. Then the next morning i would have gone to immigration, applied for my extension, and told them: "You were totally right, the landlord was probably doing this illegally, because he had no work permit. Because of this i moved out there, and now i stay at this hotel instead." Everything with a smile.

"Play with them not against them" Very good advice. It often seems to me its the people who don't use agents who have the most problems.

[sunnyboy2018]

31 minutes ago, Edheres said:

Right, that's what I understood from Jomtien Immigration.  Apparently they  figure rental income is like working, so as a foreigner, if you rent, you need the work permit.  Had I rented from a Thai, there would have been no issue (well, you know..............).  My Real Estate people were mum and not helpful other than to say they do it (have foreigners without work permits rent to foreigners) all the time.

 

Didnt they just use the landlord work permit thing because you did not play the game when offered the chance?

[Beggar]

6 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

"Play with them not against them" Very good advice. It often seems to me its the people who don't use agents who have the most problems.

I have been living here more than 20 years and never needed an agent. The immigration here in Pattaya was always very helpful. I think it is not the end of the world to stay legal and do the retirement extension again. I have to renew it every year... 

[onera1961]

4 hours ago, Edheres said:

Forgetting to renew the re-entry stamp was.

Not sure what is this all babbling and incoherent attempt at writings about. A re-entry stamp cannot be renewed. Nothing can be renewed in Thailand. If you have a re-entry permit, it expires on the same day your retirement extension expires. Of course if you have a single entry reentry permit, the name suggests what it is.  

Edited September 3, 2019 by onera1961

[from the home of CC]

58 minutes ago, Beggar said:

I have been living here more than 20 years and never needed an agent. The immigration here in Pattaya was always very helpful. I think it is not the end of the world to stay legal and do the retirement extension again. I have to renew it every year... 

This whole thread smells like many other dubious posts that have recently appeared. No matter though for eventually all these crowing posts about bribery will be noticed by those who can make life hell for some. IMO, the pressured will keep being ratcheted up and you can blame all those who brag about breaking the law.   

[amykat]

1 hour ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Didnt they just use the landlord work permit thing because you did not play the game when offered the chance?

Yes, immigration finds excuses to make extra money.  They don’t have to be real.  He could have just paid 18k but he ended up paying 28k, and so an agent got 10k of that.

[ChouDoufu]

is this for real?

 

are you saying you left thailand with your retirement extension but NO re-entry permit?  therefore, your retirement extension was no longer valid.  you were allowed back in on a 30-day visa (waiver?).

 

i can't imagine six trips for more documentation, especially for rental contract, would have fixed that.

[Beggar]

50 minutes ago, amykat said:

Yes, immigration finds excuses to make extra money.  They don’t have to be real.  He could have just paid 18k but he ended up paying 28k, and so an agent got 10k of that.

I never would try to bribe an officer and never did in my life. It will make you vulnerable. In this case the landlord was Chinese and so had no work permit for renting out rooms - it is like this. The officers at the immigration have the job to fulfill / execute the law. 

 

I often hear bars in Pattaya need to give money to the police to be allowed to be open after the closing time. Now who is the culprit? The bar owner does not close and bribes the police so that they don't care. It is not that the police ask for money to close their eyes. It is the bar owner that asks them. And it is a risk for the police not to enforce the law. 

 

It should not happen like this but it happens. But not only the police is to blame. Some bar owners have good connections and so the police officer does not have many options. 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Beggar

[amykat]

2 minutes ago, Beggar said:

I never would try to bribe an officer and never did in my life. It will make you vulnerable. In this case the landlord was Chinese and so had no work permit for renting out rooms - it is like this. The officers at the immigration have the job to fulfill / execute the law. 

 

I often hear bars in Pattaya need to give money to the police to be allowed to be open after the closing time. Now who is the culprit? The bar owner does not close and bribes the police so that they don't care. It is not that the police ask for money to close their eyes. It is the bar owner that asks them. And it is a risk for the police not to enforce the law. 

 

It should not happen like this but it happens. But not only the police is to blame. Some bar owners have good connections and so the police man does not have many options. 

No work permit is required to rent your property, this has been discussed before.  Ridiculous.  That was an excuse.  Is a work permit required to let the bank use your money, to let the the stock market use your money?  You are getting a return on a capital investment.

 

All bars pay the police money, not only ones that stay open late.  It isn’t the police that ask? Ha ha ha!!  They don’t ask is right, they tell you, and they have a pick up schedule around town.  

 

Im not defending bribery, I don’t really see this as bribery.  That would be someone who commits crimes and then pays off the system to avoid penalties let’s say, as one example. This is extortion, when you should be allowed to do something and are being jacked around, denied, caused extra expenses and work, because someone with power over you wants a little cash to make it all go away.

 

Same as if your boss will only give you your paycheck, if you add a <deleted> along with the work you already did.  Would you call that bribery?  Or something else?  

[Dnyy]

6 hours ago, Edheres said:

The superficial reason was that I rented from a Chinese guy who lives in China and has no Thai Work Permit.

Why would your landlord need a WP to rent out his condo? He's probably subject to personal income tax in Thailand but no need for a WP. Our landlord is from Hong Kong and my wife had no problems reporting herself at CW. 

[Beggar]

1 minute ago, Dnyy said:

Why would your landlord need a WP to rent out his condo? He's probably subject to personal income tax in Thailand but no need for a WP. Our landlord is from Hong Kong and my wife had no problems reporting herself at CW. 

He is doing business here in Thailand. It is not about paying taxes. Paying taxes alone doesn't allow you to do certain businesses here in Thailand. 

 

But it is a very interesting story with perhaps severe implications for many foreigners here. If I have time I will dig deeper but perhaps we have a lawyer here in the forum that could clarify this.

[wxyz1]

I believe some things shouldn't be posted on a public forum.

[ericthai]

7 hours ago, Edheres said:

Well, here's the deal: the fellow got a form for a change in visa after saying my application for a new Retirement visa wouldn't work after reviewing my paperwork. As he started to take my papers and walk away into the central offices (this was at the front desk), I was about to give him the 2,000 baht fee from a pile of bills from my pocket.  He looked in my hand, gestured and said 18,000 baht which was really hard to misinterpret.  I said no, that the fee was 2,000 at which point he handed back my papers and turned away.............

Right then and there you could have fixed things without an agent and saved money. Seems your new to Thailand. You will learn how things work. Anytime my company had to deal with the govt my Thai partner or another Thai from the office would handle things.  About 90% of the time they would make a "donation" to "expedite" things. We get it now, instead of weeks for a small fee (100-300B) this is just how things work in Thailand, and most of Asia.  

 

[ericthai]

3 hours ago, Beggar said:

He is doing business here in Thailand. It is not about paying taxes. Paying taxes alone doesn't allow you to do certain businesses here in Thailand. 

 

But it is a very interesting story with perhaps severe implications for many foreigners here. If I have time I will dig deeper but perhaps we have a lawyer here in the forum that could clarify this.

Again a work permit is not needed to rent out a condo. Also, a work permit is to allow you to work in Thailand. The owner is not in Thailand!!

[NCC1701A]

11 hours ago, Edheres said:

and you forget that your Multiple Re-entry Stamp expired

what does this mean?

[sumrit]

5 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

17 hours ago, Edheres said:

and you forget that your Multiple Re-entry Stamp expired

what does this mean?

It probably means he being economical with the truth/facts to try and gain some sympathy.????

 

As a multiple re-entry permit would be valid for the length of his extension, because it had expired, his extension would also have expired, it wouldn't have been voided because of the lack of a multi re-entry permit.

Edited September 3, 2019 by sumrit