Don Mueang paranoia

[Zikomat]

 Three months ago I have traveled to Laos with my girlfriend through Don Mueang. Registration procedure took a couple of minutes. This time I have traveled the same direction alone. The young girl at registration was reading some information on her computer for 15 minutes. She looked very serious. I smelled trouble. "Do you have a visa?". I get one on arrival. Five more minutes and she informs me that I need a booked hotel and a return ticket to be able to travel to Vientiane. First time ever asked for this flying to Vientiane (and I did travel to the place more than 10 times in recent years). Then she took me to her supervisor. A lot of discussion between them and also phone calls. With every minute the situation was getting only worse. Do you have money? Yes, I do have 10000 baht for a 3-day trip. Hmm...Just a moment. They need you to have 1000 $ in cash. What???
 Then I went to buy a return ticket (I did not buy it before for an obvious reason - I planned to return through the land border). A girl who sold me the ticket also informed me that 1000$ in cash needed to visit Vientiane. At this moment I understood that all these girls are not quite adequate and, most probably, were seriously brainwashed and intimidated by their bosses who in turn were pressured by their bosses and so on. Call it a national paranoia originating on the highest level of the Thai politics. I booked a hotel online (without paying for it) and informed that I don't have 1000$ in cash for a 3-day trip. After a lot of talks I was finally allowed to be registered for the flight. One hour of absurd. Off course, when entering Laos I was NOT asked for hotel booking, NOT for return ticket and NOT for any cash. Nothing! Looks like these days Thai airports may be problematic not only when you want to enter Thailand but also when you leave it. 

 

PS. Sorry for my bad English.
 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Zikomat

[tabarin]

Perhaps because of the airline getting hassled over having to return farangs arriving in Thailand + being refused, resulted in instructions to airline staff to ask this for outgoing flights near by too? Or the staff misunderstood it and was perhaps instructed to originally only do this with flights TO Thailand rather than also FROM Thailand? 

Regardless, must have been a really annoying moment & not making it so motivating to take holidays knowing the potential issues.

Edited September 3, 2019 by tabarin

[StayinThailand2much]

1 hour ago, tabarin said:

Perhaps because of the airline getting hassled over having to return farangs arriving in Thailand + being refused, resulted in instructions to airline staff to ask this for outgoing flights near by too? Or the staff misunderstood it and was perhaps instructed to originally only do this with flights TO Thailand rather than also FROM Thailand? 

Regardless, must have been a really annoying moment & not making it so motivating to take holidays knowing the potential issues.

I think you're spot on! Never been asked whether I had a visa or return-ticket for Thailand when flying there, until 2017. (Never been asked whether I had a visa or return-ticket for a third country anywhere in the world, except at check-in in Thailand recently. They even quiz you at the gate now if you fly to other Western countries, where the chance of refusal is practically zero.)

 

Guess, about the same time they started quizzing people, flying to neighbouring countries, whether they had visas, or how long ago they had travelled there. Must be a national paranoia now...

Edited September 3, 2019 by StayinThailand2much

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, tabarin said:

Perhaps because of the airline getting hassled over having to return farangs arriving in Thailand + being refused, resulted in instructions to airline staff to ask this for outgoing flights near by too? Or the staff misunderstood it and was perhaps instructed to originally only do this with flights TO Thailand rather than also FROM Thailand? 

Regardless, must have been a really annoying moment & not making it so motivating to take holidays knowing the potential issues.

As I understand, the airlines are responsible for people who are refused at immigration.  I'm not sure to what extent, as immigration can refuse anyone at any time, including if they have been black-listed by the destination country, and I doubt that the airlines would have access to that information.  

 

Anyway, as I understand, there are at least certain criteria that the airlines are told about, that, if not complied with, will put the onus of repatriation back on the airline.  And if you are on a visa run, and hence doubtful about getting back into Thailand, they'll be doubly cautious.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and the reply to it.

[Maestro]

What does the IATA website say about it?

 

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/passport-visa-health-travel-document-requirements.htm#

 

I invite the OP to use the above link to check it out.

 

[mtls2005]

I guess the one-way ticket flagged additional review? In addition to all the normal checks: passport validity, visa, onward travel etc.

 

Airlines do not, as far as I know, require proof of cash on hand or accomodation? Arriving Immigration (in Laos) may. The airlines simply have to advise you of the requirement, to which you should say "Yes, I understand".

 

9 hours ago, Zikomat said:

After a lot of talks I was finally allowed to be registered for the flight.

 

This supports the fact that the agent was probably a bit out of their depth, as they were over-ridden by a supe.

 

 

 

 

[overherebc]

50 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

I guess the one-way ticket flagged additional review? In addition to all the normal checks: passport validity, visa, onward travel etc.

 

Airlines do not, as far as I know, require proof of cash on hand or accomodation? Arriving Immigration (in Laos) may. The airlines simply have to advise you of the requirement, to which you should say "Yes, I understand".

 

 

This supports the fact that the agent was probably a bit out of their depth, as they were over-ridden by a supe.

 

 

 

 

It does seem lately that even check-in staff have suddenly become experts on all the requirements countries around have for entry.

[Longcut]

8 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

I think you're spot on! Never been asked whether I had a visa or return-ticket for Thailand when flying there, until 2017. (Never been asked whether I had a visa or return-ticket for a third country anywhere in the world, except at check-in in Thailand recently. They even quiz you at the gate now if you fly to other Western countries, where the chance of refusal is practically zero.)

 

Guess, about the same time they started quizzing people, flying to neighbouring countries, whether they had visas, or how long ago they had travelled there. Must be a national paranoia now...

Thailand thinks just because the have a rule or law, then the rest of the world must be following their lead and that they also have the same rules or laws. 

[Dnyy]

Why should a Thai IO care about if you'll be let in into a 3rd country or not? Or if you fulfil requirements? Isn't that up to the airline to check during check-in/baggage drop?

 

So they are now giving trouble to let you in and out of the country?

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, Dnyy said:

Why should a Thai IO care about if you'll be let in into a 3rd country or not? Or if you fulfil requirements? Isn't that up to the airline to check during check-in/baggage drop?

 

So they are now giving trouble to let you in and out of the country?

As the airline is responsible for returning you if you are refused entry then they want to cover themselves JIC.

However they may be working on the must have return flight, hotel booking and cash in pocket rules because that makes it easier for them.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Dnyy said:

Why should a Thai IO care about if you'll be let in into a 3rd country or not? Or if you fulfil requirements? Isn't that up to the airline to check during check-in/baggage drop?

 

So they are now giving trouble to let you in and out of the country?

The OP account is about the airline not immigration. 

OP your flying without a visa and airline require an onward flight. This is because if you are denied entry Vientiane (?) you are possibly flown back at cost to airline. 

[Zikomat]

I personally stop using Thai airports for traveling to any neighboring country (both ways). They may drastically change their requirements any day and those requirements are often irrational and even outright stupid. The whole experience is very unpleasant. At the same time, crossing the land borders is always smooth and super fast for me (which I hope will not change in the future). 

P.S. When dealing with the airport or immigration staff - the worst option is some young girl who is usually lacking confidence in her working experience so she will make everything according to the letter of law. And quite often in excess of that. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Zikomat

[Zikomat]

22 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The OP account is about the airline not immigration. 

OP your flying without a visa and airline require an onward flight. This is because if you are denied entry Vientiane (?) you are possibly flown back at cost to airline. 

There is a Visa on arrival. You cannot say that I travel without Visa. My guess is there was not a single case in history of somebody returned from Laos to Bangkok for not having 1000$ or even an onward ticket. But who cares when there is a mass paranoia among Thai airport and immigration staff. Deal with them as you deal with the mentally ill people: avoid.

[Zikomat]

6 hours ago, Maestro said:

What does the IATA website say about it?

 

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/passport-visa-health-travel-document-requirements.htm#

 

I invite the OP to use the above link to check it out.

 

Thank you for the link. I have entered my details and here are my requirements for entering Laos from Thailand:

 

Visa Issuance:

Nationals of Poland can obtain a visa on arrival at Luang Prabang (LPQ), Pakse (PKZ) and Vientiane (VTE) for a maximum stay of 30 days. Passengers must: 
- have a confirmed hotel reservation in Lao People's Dem. Rep.; and
- have all documents required for their next destination; and
- have a passport photo; and
- have a passport that contains at least 2 unused visa pages.

E-visas can be obtained before departure at www.laoevisa.gov.la . Passengers must have a printed e-visa confirmation and can only enter at Wattay International Airport (VTE).

 

-------------

 

As you can see, according to IATA, I am not required to have an onward ticket or any cash. Only hotel reservation (which is never a problem). Something is seriously wrong with the people at Don Mueang.

 

 

[Dnyy]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

The OP account is about the airline not immigration. 

OP your flying without a visa and airline require an onward flight. This is because if you are denied entry Vientiane (?) you are possibly flown back at cost to airline. 

Ahh okay. Thanks, I misunderstood.

[StayinThailand2much]

2 hours ago, Dnyy said:

Why should a Thai IO care about if you'll be let in into a 3rd country or not? Or if you fulfil requirements? Isn't that up to the airline to check during check-in/baggage drop?

 

So they are now giving trouble to let you in and out of the country?

That, exactly, seems to be more and more the trend. Flying to, say, New Zealand, Vietnam, etc., you get asked even at the gate to provide return tickets or visa history. - What's next? Not only do I have to carry 20,000 baht cash on me to enter Thailand, but also XXX baht and return ticket to fly out to a third country?? - I was about to tell the airline staff, flying to Down Under earlier this year, that New Zealand actually welcomes visitors, but I bit my tongue. Not to mention that, in NZ, no airline staff pestered me with questions about a visa for Australia or a ticket out... But Thais are Thailand-centered, firmly believing that all the world is f***** up the same way as their country is.

Edited September 4, 2019 by StayinThailand2much

[newatthis]

2 hours ago, Zikomat said:

Thank you for the link. I have entered my details and here are my requirements for entering Laos from Thailand:

 

Visa Issuance:

Nationals of Poland can obtain a visa on arrival at Luang Prabang (LPQ), Pakse (PKZ) and Vientiane (VTE) for a maximum stay of 30 days. Passengers must: 
- have a confirmed hotel reservation in Lao People's Dem. Rep.; and
- have all documents required for their next destination; and
- have a passport photo; and
- have a passport that contains at least 2 unused visa pages.

E-visas can be obtained before departure at www.laoevisa.gov.la . Passengers must have a printed e-visa confirmation and can only enter at Wattay International Airport (VTE).

 

-------------

 

As you can see, according to IATA, I am not required to have an onward ticket or any cash. Only hotel reservation (which is never a problem). Something is seriously wrong with the people at Don Mueang.

 

 

Does not "have all documents required for their next destination" imply an onward ticket?

[Satcommlee]

The flight may have been overbooked and they looking to bump people off...

[Peter Denis]

5 hours ago, newatthis said:

Does not "have all documents required for their next destination" imply an onward ticket?

IMO not necessarily as you may have foreseen to come back using the land border

[Ling Kae]

I flew from DM 2 weeks ago one way to Vientiane and had no return flight as I came back via friendship bridge, i also did not have a Lao visa.

 

I checked in on my mobile app and they issued me an electronic boarding pass. I did not need to go to the check in desk at all. Why didn't you do this?

 

I showed my electronic boarding pass on my phone at all points of entry and no questions were asked. 

 

Flight completed, bought visa on arrival and had no problems at all.

[Nyezhov]

9 hours ago, overherebc said:

It does seem lately that even check-in staff have suddenly become experts on all the requirements countries around have for entry.

Well Delta (Korea) made me show my Visa in the USA cuz I was on a one way....

[bkk6060]

21 hours ago, Zikomat said:

Looks like these days Thai airports may be problematic not only when you want to enter Thailand but also when you leave it. 

Maybe for you.

Been coming in and out for 10 years now maybe 50 times never had any problem or difficulty.

But, I have all the proper documents and follow the rules.

Edited September 4, 2019 by bkk6060

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Well Delta (Korea) made me show my Visa in the USA cuz I was on a one way....

Most airlines do. Even in uk, flying Finnair, insisted that I couldn't fly to Thailand on VE without giving me a chance to show I had a multi O. Even then they didn't understand a multi ( UK check in staff ) They were 'sure' I had already used it so I needed a 'new one'.

Sometimes it's difficult to be patient.

[Zikomat]

5 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Maybe for you.

Been coming in and out for 10 years now maybe 50 times never had any problem or difficulty.

But, I have all the proper documents and follow the rules.

 Visited Vientiane 15 times approx. and never had a problem too. Until this time. What proper documents do you usually have? Do you take a grand of cash with you? I mean I can take it too. The problem is I never imagined I could be asked for it. Even not in my numerous nightmares.

 

The point of my post was that , as it seems to me , Don Mueang personal is currently quite schizophrenic in general (don’t want to use that paranoic word once again) and anybody planning to make a trip through it to Laos, Cambodia or Vietnam should proceed with caution. And this is certainly my subjective opinion.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Zikomat

[Langkawee]

19 hours ago, Longcut said:

Thailand thinks just because the have a rule or law, then the rest of the world must be following their lead and that they also have the same rules or laws. 

Same happened to myself going to Korea. Strangely the woman was dressed in a Thai Airways uniform but in the Jin  Air booth. I noticed only farang were being sent to her. I told her to <deleted>  off because the rules to enter Korea is no onward ticket for my passport. She quickly backed down. Incidentally the Thai Airways office was not far away and I think they sell tickets. I'm using Malaysia as my hub now. Thai airports have descended into madness. Use Thai airports at your peril. BTW no onward ticket required by Laos either. Looks like Thai airports, scam city. The old scam was when you needed an urgent ticket staff would direct you to horrendously expensive agents working in airport, before online ticket sales. Perhaps they were hoping you were not internet savvy and they would get a kick back from buying a ticket from these unscrupulous agents who work without authority in Bangkok airports. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Langkawee

[Langkawee]

18 hours ago, Satcommlee said:

The flight may have been overbooked and they looking to bump people off...

I agree 

[mtls2005]

16 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

I flew from DM 2 weeks ago one way to Vientiane and had no return flight as I came back via friendship bridge, i also did not have a Lao visa.

 

I checked in on my mobile app and they issued me an electronic boarding pass. I did not need to go to the check in desk at all. Why didn't you do this?

 

I showed my electronic boarding pass on my phone at all points of entry and no questions were asked. 

 

Flight completed, bought visa on arrival and had no problems at all.

 

 

Security protocols, enhanced in 2016 as a result of international requiements, for international travel were changed to require a paper/physical boarding pass be presented at both departing Immigration and security, for travelers with checked luggage.

 

Often the gate readers block entry and require you to get a new, paper BP issued at the gate.

 

I'm guessing that you had no checked bags?

 

You handed your phone to departing Thai immigration and security personnel?

 

And at Laos PDR immigration were you asked to show your eBP?

 

The overbooking issue is interesting, perhaps a sly way to deal with IDBs, avoiding unrest at the gate. Wouldn't want to get found out to be doing this though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by mtls2005

[Ling Kae]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

 

 

Security protocols, enhanced in 2016 as a result of international requiements, for international travel were changed to require a paper/physical boarding pass be presented at both departing Immigration and security, for travelers with checked luggage.

 

Often the gate readers block entry and require you to get a new, paper BP issued at the gate.

 

I'm guessing that you had no checked bags?

 

You handed your phone to departing Thai immigration and security personnel?

 

And at Laos PDR immigration were you asked to show your eBP?

 

The overbooking issue is interesting, perhaps a sly way to deal with IDBs, avoiding unrest at the gate. Wouldn't want to get found out to be doing this though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had no checked baggage and as I had an EBP I was directed by Air Asia staff to go through immigration and to my gate.

 

First check point I showed my EBP and was directed in to immigration.  At immigration the officer checked all details of the EBP which of course was correct and corresponded to my passport.

 

At security bag check, no need to show EBP.

 

At the gate, the bar code on my EBP was scanned and I got on the bus to my plane and sat down in my seat.

 

At Lao PDR, the EBP was not asked for. On arrival I filled in the visa form, joined the queue and paid my $30 USD and they issued me the visa. 5 mintues later I was in my taxi to my hotel.

 

It was easy all the way through. 

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, Ling Kae said:

I had no checked baggage

This is key. No clue if the OP was carry-on only?

 

3 minutes ago, Ling Kae said:

At immigration the officer checked all details of the EBP

The IO seemed nonplussed by your eBP? I've seen some rejections at SBIA/BKK reported with the eBP.

 

4 minutes ago, Ling Kae said:

At security bag check, no need to show EBP.

This, I believe is not accepted practice. BP's are supposed to be verified before entering the security check area.

 

 

But it is interesting to see how OLCI/no bag pax are handled differently than normal CI/bag pax, with FD at DMK.