Title to Condominium.

[ratcatcher]

An old friend of mine of 75 and in poor health had informed myself and another lady friend several years ago that upon his death he wanted us to be his executors. His estate consists of a furnished 2 bedroom 15 year old condo in Soi 71/ 14 Phra Kanong area of Bangkok and an old 1984 Mercedes SE280 sedan. He has no living blood relatives and is divorced from his 1st English wife who resides in the U.K.

He is still married to a younger woman (ex BG) probably now around 38-40. He claims he has a written will which apparently is in the possession of the other executor. I have no idea what his wishes are except he gave me verbal instructions for his wishes re the funeral. (Wat, burn & scatter in Chao Phraya)

My question is does his Thai wife have a claim on the condo if it was purchased before she was in a relationship / marriage with him. He says she doesn't. 

He possesses the Chanote paper for the condo, but says he does not have the blue book. Is it normal for the development company to hold any blue book relating to this property? Thanks.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, ratcatcher said:

My question is does his Thai wife have a claim on the condo if it was purchased before she was in a relationship / marriage with him.

 

If he dies intestate, then yes she does. If he dies having made a valid will and his wife is not a beneficiary, then no she doesn't.

 

1 hour ago, ratcatcher said:

He possesses the Chanote paper for the condo, but says he does not have the blue book. Is it normal for the development company to hold any blue book relating to this property?

 

No, it is not normal. Regardless, the owner he can give a letter of authority and a copy of his passport to someone, and they can go to the district office at the end of Sukhumvit Soi 55 (Thong Lo) and get a replacement for a very small fee. It is definitely better to do this while the gentleman is still alive, as when he is deceased it will not be quite as easy.

 

Practically, you should:

 

1. Have a duplicate key and access card to his condo.
2. Know exactly where the will is
3. Know exactly where the chanote is
4. Know exactly where the car registration book and keys are
5. Make sure all building common fees are paid and up to date (If they are not then someone will have to pay the fees and then somehow get the fees back at a later date).

[1FinickyOne]

Quite simply, unless it is a paid position, being an executor is a thankless job...

 

That said, if you want to undertake the responsibility, you should insist on the fellow going to a lawyer and having a proper will drawn up... this will make your job much easier... and it is a job. 

[Kerryd]

A) Talk to an actual lawyer. It won't cost much to ask a few questions.

B) You will most likely need a lawyer anyways as the Will will have to go to court for Probate (not sooner than 45 days after death).
C) The lawyer can/should draft a new Will which would supercede any older Wills. They should also hold a copy themselves. That keeps it all legal, with the proper "Witnesses" and such. Makes it hard for someone to contest the Probate by showing up with an older Will or one that wasn't done properly.

When your friend dies - ensure you (personally) go to the bank(s) and have his accounts locked until the Probate is done. That will prevent anyone (like an ex) from showing up and draining his accounts. (Which happened when my father died here - his companion was still able to access his account even though I had his ATM card, bank book and passport. She simply had a "friend" help her get a new bankbook and she'd kept photocopies of his passport and went to the bank everyday until the account was empty.)

The lawyers I dealt with charged a percentage of the estimated values of dad's estate as their fee for doing the probate of the Will. Normally that fee comes out of the Estate.

GET the blue book ! Use the lawyer if need be ! Too easy for someone to jig up a receipt and claim they bought the place fair and square if THEY are holding the blue book. They could even then try to scam money from you by offering to "sell it back" to you - for a hefty price of course.

If your friend is bed-ridden, the lawyers would be able to send someone to see him. He wouldn't have to go to them. 

If it's a worry, you could even arrange to "buy" the condo from your friend (and give him an agreement that he can live there until his death) as you are going to end up with it anyways. Might make things easier but USE a lawyer so that it is all legal and no one can accuse you of stealing from the guy.

Keep in mind that you are a foreigner in a foreign land and things will work differently here than how you may think they should work or how you think they work "back home".

I wouldn't gamble on things "somehow" working themselves out somewhere down the road. Not if you have the ability to get matters dealt with here and now.

[LukKrueng]

18 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

An old friend of mine of 75 and in poor health had informed myself and another lady friend several years ago that upon his death he wanted us to be his executors. His estate consists of a furnished 2 bedroom 15 year old condo in Soi 71/ 14 Phra Kanong area of Bangkok and an old 1984 Mercedes SE280 sedan.

first of all, why do you disclose all those details? It makes no difference to the question/answers yet you provide too much personal information of someone else. Just for that I wouldn't trust you to be the executor of my estate. Could have just wrote: a friend who owns a condo and a car asked me to..... He didn't give me any details of the will, only some verbal instructions regarding his funeral arrangements....

that is enough in order for you to get the answers.

as for the blue book - it has nothing to do with the ownership of the condo therefore not important. Whoever inherits/buys the unit can take care of it if needs it.

[newnative]

      Good answer by blackcab.  There is definitely more work involved with being an Executor than most people think and one should consider long and hard before agreeing to be one.   

      Some other questions for this case that the OP should try to find out before the old gent dies. Is there a Thai bank account?  If so, where is the bank book?  How much money is in the bank account?  Important information because there will likely be expenses to be paid before any money is realized from the sale of the car and condo.

     Is there a pension? If so, who do you notify of the gent's passing to stop the pension payments?  Does he file a tax return?  If so, what and where is that information because, as Executor, a final tax return will likely need to be done.           Does he have a health insurance policy?  If so, same drill as the pension and the information will be needed if he goes into the hospital and has medical bills before he dies.  (And, if doesn't have insurance, how is that to be handled?) 

     Are there any other assets at all?  What does he want done with personal items that won't be sold with the condo?  What does he want done with the proceeds from the condo and car sales?

     Doing all of the above, plus the funeral, plus things I have forgotten, plus selling the car and the condo, all involve work on the Executor's part.  Selling a condo, even with a quick sale, will involve quite a bit of time and effort from the start to the final finish at the Land Office.  For all of this, you, as the Executor should receive compensation.  Should you take this on, I would suggest you insist on a new Will that has you in it as the Executor with your duties and compensation specified.

[newnative]

8 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

A) Talk to an actual lawyer. It won't cost much to ask a few questions.

B) You will most likely need a lawyer anyways as the Will will have to go to court for Probate (not sooner than 45 days after death).
C) The lawyer can/should draft a new Will which would supercede any older Wills. They should also hold a copy themselves. That keeps it all legal, with the proper "Witnesses" and such. Makes it hard for someone to contest the Probate by showing up with an older Will or one that wasn't done properly.

When your friend dies - ensure you (personally) go to the bank(s) and have his accounts locked until the Probate is done. That will prevent anyone (like an ex) from showing up and draining his accounts. (Which happened when my father died here - his companion was still able to access his account even though I had his ATM card, bank book and passport. She simply had a "friend" help her get a new bankbook and she'd kept photocopies of his passport and went to the bank everyday until the account was empty.)

The lawyers I dealt with charged a percentage of the estimated values of dad's estate as their fee for doing the probate of the Will. Normally that fee comes out of the Estate.

GET the blue book ! Use the lawyer if need be ! Too easy for someone to jig up a receipt and claim they bought the place fair and square if THEY are holding the blue book. They could even then try to scam money from you by offering to "sell it back" to you - for a hefty price of course.

If your friend is bed-ridden, the lawyers would be able to send someone to see him. He wouldn't have to go to them. 

If it's a worry, you could even arrange to "buy" the condo from your friend (and give him an agreement that he can live there until his death) as you are going to end up with it anyways. Might make things easier but USE a lawyer so that it is all legal and no one can accuse you of stealing from the guy.

Keep in mind that you are a foreigner in a foreign land and things will work differently here than how you may think they should work or how you think they work "back home".

I wouldn't gamble on things "somehow" working themselves out somewhere down the road. Not if you have the ability to get matters dealt with here and now.

      Good answer.  I would only clarify that in this case it seems to be unclear from the OP as to whom is going to inherit the condo.  I wouldn't assume that 'you are going to end up with it anyway' (referring to the OP).  The old gent apparently has an old Will and the condo might be going to a charity for all we know.  If it's the wish of the old gent that the OP receive the condo as payment for his Executor duties, that should be specified in a new Will--as you recommended.  

[onera1961]

19 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

He is still married to a younger woman (ex BG) probably now around 38-40.

Only in Thailand. 

[newcomer01]

19 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

If he dies intestate, then yes she does. If he dies having made a valid will and his wife is not a beneficiary, then no she doesn't.

 

 

No, it is not normal. Regardless, the owner he can give a letter of authority and a copy of his passport to someone, and they can go to the district office at the end of Sukhumvit Soi 55 (Thong Lo) and get a replacement for a very small fee. It is definitely better to do this while the gentleman is still alive, as when he is deceased it will not be quite as easy.

 

Practically, you should:

 

1. Have a duplicate key and access card to his condo.
2. Know exactly where the will is
3. Know exactly where the chanote is
4. Know exactly where the car registration book and keys are
5. Make sure all building common fees are paid and up to date (If they are not then someone will have to pay the fees and then somehow get the fees back at a later date).

Death, a morbid subject.  Funeral arrangements.   Letter from embassy before a Thai death certificate is issued

  Need written permission to do the funeral.  Will,  will,  will

  Nationality?  I have a checklist for death of an Australian of required.  Asset distribution after death.  Pensions sale of property etc. Get a  Will ASAP.  Worth the expense.  Copies of death cert, notorised.  A big responsibility.   Chok dee

Make a checklist.

 

[Kerryd]

In addition to my previous post.

As well, take the time (now) to go to your (or his) embassy's website to find the relevant information on what to do in the event of a persons death in a foreign land.

One of the first things you will need to do is go to the Embassy with the (original) Death Certificate to have it Officially translated and to get a number of Certified True Copies. Those WILL be needed by various banks/agencies/gov't departments "back home".

 

The Embassy will also cancel his passport (and give it back to you if you want it).

Check with some local temples about the prices for a cremation ceremony. It's not like "back home" where the Funeral Home picks up the body from the morgue, takes it to the crematorium, holds a service, cremates the body and hands you a small urn with the ashes.

Not.

Even.

Close.

You WILL be a lot more "personally" involved in the whole procedure (if you have a Thai wife/girlfriend - she should be able to help out with all that).

For example. When my dad died (back in 2010). I had to get the death certificate from the hospital and take it to City Hall to be registered.

Then I had to go to Bangkok to get the Official translation and Certified True Copies, get his passport cancelled and get a letter from the Embassy authorizing me (as the Executor of his Will) to dispose of the remains.

Then I could go to the temple to arrange the ceremony. If the temple is "legit" they won't do the ceremony without that letter from the Embassy. (Keeps people from disposing of bodies they may have had a hand in creating. You know. Wink wink, knudge knudge.)
At the temple I had some options, like a 1 day or 3 day ceremony and if I wanted to pay for an alcove on the temple grounds to place the ashes (with a plaque noting name and dates and a photo of the deceased).

The temple (in my case) wouldn't consider a 3 days ceremony even though that's what dad's lady friend wanted (as she knew I was paying). The reason being was that dad would have already been "on ice" for 5 days before they started and that was a bit too long. (Things start to get ripe too fast). 

Dad told me before he died "just burn me and dump the ashes". He didn't want anything elaborate

 

So we did the 1 day ceremony. Which began with me having to go to the hospital where dad was "on ice" and arranging to have the body transported to the temple. (Many people would just wrap it in a blanket and put it in the back of a pick-up. We arranged with a local Rescue outfit for them to move the body as I didn't know anyone with a truck).
Body went to the temple where the local workers (not monks) had a cheap wooden casket ready. The body was placed in that for the "viewing" (where friends/relatives walk around the body, pour scented water on one of the outstretched hands and maybe make some small offerings, like tossing a few coins into the casket).
After that the casket lid was put on the the casket loaded into the "cooler" until the afternoon ceremony.
The afternoon ceremony was where the chanting monks did their thing, then we put the casket onto a wagon and did the "3 times around the crematorium" walk with an assemblage of people and monks. We then carried the casket up the steps to where the oven is. It was placed on a trolley and the lid removed. (You can now imagine why they didn't want a 3 day ceremony after dad was already 5 days dead).

Then people would go up the steps and take paper flowers from a basket and drop them into the casket as they said their final good-byes. That is when people can also address whoever is there to give homage to the deceased.

When everyone is finished, the caretaker rifles the body, taking out all the money (<deleted>) and anything not "burnable". The lid is replaced and the casket loaded into the oven chamber. They don't (normally) do the burns until after dark.

The next day, things get a bit weird (from a Western point of view at least). I had to go to the temple very early. The caretakers gathered the ashes into buckets and dumped them on a board, where they then (using a trowel) arranged them in a vaguely human shape. Some scented water was poured on them, not enough to make them muddy (I think it was supposed to help with the odour).
A monk came by and chanted something for a couple minutes and then left).

For some reason, dad's lady friend had arranged for 2 small urns (one silvery coloured and one brassy/gold coloured). We had to pick out pieces of bone from the different areas of the "body" and place them in the urns. When the urns are full, they place a piece of the skull on top.

I still cringe when I remember the caretaker guy trying to find a piece of the skull that would fit into the urn and then giving one piece a whack with the trowel to break it up into smaller pieces.
Once both urns were full, the remainder of the ashes were loaded into a large metal tub that had been lined with a new linen sheet. The sheet was tied off, we hopped into the caretaker's pickup (with the very hot tub of ashes on my lap) and drove to another temple in North Pattaya. 

There we end up walking out on a pier to what appeared to be an abandoned building built over the water, well offshore. The monks have set up some stuff there and after another short chanting session with one monk, we opened the sheet and dumped the rest of dad's ashes into the ocean.

(Note: the "silver" urn went into the "alcove" at the temple and the "gold" urn went home with me where it sits in the little "ancestral" shrine like some people have in their homes.)

Normally they won't do the Probate until 45 days after death, to give people/creditors/etc time to make claims on the estate (I think this goes back to the days when getting from one part of the country to another could take days or longer - the same reasoning for why they offer "3 day" cremation ceremonies).

I had to appear in court (with my lawyer, who had one of her staff there as well to do the translating as everything is done in Thai of course).

I had to swear an affirmation (they give you a choice between a "god" or "buddha" oath  - I mumbled through a non-religious affirmation).

The lawyer and the judge did some question/answer stuff, the judge asked me a couple of questions (I think to get me "on the record" as stating that I was dad's only living relative and only heir).
Took about 15 minutes and then a couple weeks later the lawyers had all the paperwork done so I could close out dad's bank accounts and dispose of his property (all he had really was a couple small scooters). 

That would have been when I could have disposed of any property he had, if he'd had any.

(I then had to make a trip back to Canada to have his Canadian Will probated and do all the stuff back there, like get his pensions stopped and close out bank accounts and so on, which is why I needed all those Certified True Copies of the Death Certificate.

It can be a lot of work for sure. In my case, as it was my dad, I wasn't concerned about the "rewards". (I had told him years earlier to spend it all and have a good time and not worry about leaving me anything !)
It was a lot of effort and a huge learning experience and of course quite emotional at times. Made me wish I'd done some things differently (as always - hindsight is 20/20).

So again, my advise to you is, see a lawyer and try to arrange as much as you can ahead of time (like checking with the embassy, getting the blue book dealt with one way or another, scouting out some temples - the lawyer may even be able to help with that - maybe).
If you have some Thai friends, they can help out with all the "after death" stuff (like the funeral arrangements and procedures and so on).

In my case, dad's lady friend did do a lot (helping with the Death Certificate and the arrangements at the temple) and my other Thai friends helped me with the actual cremation ceremony procedures.

Quite frankly, I'd have been screwed if I had to try and do it all by myself, especially back then (when I was still working overseas and didn't have a lot of time to get things done).

(it's also stuff to think about personally - like what's going to happen to my stuff when I die. I know - I'll be dead and won't care. However I'm not dead yet and do care - a little - about making some arrangements now. If nothing else, to make sure that the government doesn't end up getting it all. Which is what happens when people die and don't leave a Will and have no relatives/dependants/spouses/etc. Eventually the gov't gets all their stuff and disposes of it - one way or another).



 

[henry15]

I heve been an executor of the estate, aproved and appointed by the court. Once appointed  you take over all legal and other rights g the deceased. You and you allone decide what happens the inheritence of the deceased, of there is no will. Otherwise you promuss the court that you will faithfully execite the will,  In practise you go with te verdocht of the court to the bank, and you van redraw all  the money. Yoo go to the landdepartememy an transfer te Chanotte in your name, .So they put your name in te  Chanotte. Later you  transfer the property  in the name of the inheritant.

An executor of the estate has full power. he can even lock te property  and deny entry to the husband or wife.I did it for free, but even  i will get paid I will never be executor again. Its just too much hasless. Lucky there was a  will and a good and honest lawyer . Bot Executor en Lawyer work very close together. Is they are not honest they  can scam you, and the inheritants are powerless to stop it.

 

[spornb]

Executors this is a complex and complicated topic, maybe only for Lawyers and Chartered Accountants, not even financial advisers who can have dangerously bad levels of misinformation, and may not even know the difference between Domicile and Tax residence

 

Taking on executorships can be time consuming , onerous, and  can carry personal liability, in the event an incorrect decision is made, generally I am referring to UK law, there are some archaic UK laws that need to be adhered to, ignorance is no defense

 

I am 75 in poor health, cancer etc, maybe 5/10 yrs with luck, I am a retired Chartered Accountant, I have been non UK domiciled maybe 20 yrs plus

 

Thai wife 30 yrs younger, been with her 12 yrs

 

Wife is  sole executor, and she is aware of all this

 

All investments in joint names, but I manage them on line, held off shore, wife has letter to be dated with death cert enclosed requesting closure and funds sent to her, also signed by me, in the meantime there is a monthly standing order in place sending money to her  sole bank account each month

 

Houses cars etc again her name

 

Even short term cash except at  visa extension renewal time,  in her name, again I manage online

 

My Uk bank account  Isle of Man in Joint names, and she can empty online, my UK OAP goes there

 

She also has a will just in case she dies first, and all to me with me as executor

 

Effectively I have nothing, also no probate required in UK, which would be a problem for me with a medium estate

 

A few ex wives around, a couple of adult children let them all fight, my son has demanded a share, I already set him up with four houses in London

 

My wife looks after me like a king, I am a difficult man and she deserves all that is left, best wife so far! (number four) by a very long way, and if she blows it all good luck to her

 

ALL HOPEFULLY VERY SIMPLE,   NO LAWYERS!    NO PROBATE!

 

Remember non resident for UK tax, does not necessarily mean non domiciled, and that status is required to be free of UK inheritance tax, even if you do not live there, also transfers to non UK wives not necessarily exempt. its complicated USE AN EXPERT

 

The paper work has been done for my body to be donated to a Bangkok teaching hospital

[spornb]

2 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

first of all, why do you disclose all those details? It makes no difference to the question/answers yet you provide too much personal information of someone else.

The extra information provides background, like the old Mercedes, only certain types would have this !!, it maybe shows the man be discussed is not an uncomplicated individual, more interesting is did he have it from new !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

To gather information sometimes a little extra needs adding, nothing was given away

 

Read my earlier post to validate some of the information I add far more than needed

 

Fortunately we are all different

 

 

God Bless

[spornb]

21 hours ago, blackcab said:

If he dies intestate, then yes she does. If he dies having made a valid will and his wife is not a beneficiary, then no she doesn't.

 

As mentioned before these topics are for the experts, the answer above MAY not necessarily be correct

 

Generally if a will is made before marriage, that event may invalidate the whole or only part of the will, and so whilst not mentioned in the will, maybe so far as she is concerned he died intestate as the will was in existence at the time of the marriage

 

When making a will a clause is often added at the beginning, to the effect the will is made, with the forthcoming marriage acknowledged, to over come this problem

 

Please be careful on the information you read on TV regarding complicated or even simple legal questions, there is a lot of well meaning but dangerous and incorrect advice around

 

I am not an expert but as a Chartered Accountant have to deal with these matters on a daily basis, and was trained accordingly

[musicscene]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

In addition to my previous post.

As well, take the time (now) to go to your (or his) embassy's website to find the relevant information on what to do in the event of a persons death in a foreign land.

One of the first things you will need to do is go to the Embassy with the (original) Death Certificate to have it Officially translated and to get a number of Certified True Copies. Those WILL be needed by various banks/agencies/gov't departments "back home".

 

The Embassy will also cancel his passport (and give it back to you if you want it).

Check with some local temples about the prices for a cremation ceremony. It's not like "back home" where the Funeral Home picks up the body from the morgue, takes it to the crematorium, holds a service, cremates the body and hands you a small urn with the ashes.

Not.

Even.

Close.

You WILL be a lot more "personally" involved in the whole procedure (if you have a Thai wife/girlfriend - she should be able to help out with all that).

For example. When my dad died (back in 2010). I had to get the death certificate from the hospital and take it to City Hall to be registered.

Then I had to go to Bangkok to get the Official translation and Certified True Copies, get his passport cancelled and get a letter from the Embassy authorizing me (as the Executor of his Will) to dispose of the remains.

Then I could go to the temple to arrange the ceremony. If the temple is "legit" they won't do the ceremony without that letter from the Embassy. (Keeps people from disposing of bodies they may have had a hand in creating. You know. Wink wink, knudge knudge.)
At the temple I had some options, like a 1 day or 3 day ceremony and if I wanted to pay for an alcove on the temple grounds to place the ashes (with a plaque noting name and dates and a photo of the deceased).

The temple (in my case) wouldn't consider a 3 days ceremony even though that's what dad's lady friend wanted (as she knew I was paying). The reason being was that dad would have already been "on ice" for 5 days before they started and that was a bit too long. (Things start to get ripe too fast). 

Dad told me before he died "just burn me and dump the ashes". He didn't want anything elaborate

 

So we did the 1 day ceremony. Which began with me having to go to the hospital where dad was "on ice" and arranging to have the body transported to the temple. (Many people would just wrap it in a blanket and put it in the back of a pick-up. We arranged with a local Rescue outfit for them to move the body as I didn't know anyone with a truck).
Body went to the temple where the local workers (not monks) had a cheap wooden casket ready. The body was placed in that for the "viewing" (where friends/relatives walk around the body, pour scented water on one of the outstretched hands and maybe make some small offerings, like tossing a few coins into the casket).
After that the casket lid was put on the the casket loaded into the "cooler" until the afternoon ceremony.
The afternoon ceremony was where the chanting monks did their thing, then we put the casket onto a wagon and did the "3 times around the crematorium" walk with an assemblage of people and monks. We then carried the casket up the steps to where the oven is. It was placed on a trolley and the lid removed. (You can now imagine why they didn't want a 3 day ceremony after dad was already 5 days dead).

Then people would go up the steps and take paper flowers from a basket and drop them into the casket as they said their final good-byes. That is when people can also address whoever is there to give homage to the deceased.

When everyone is finished, the caretaker rifles the body, taking out all the money (<deleted>) and anything not "burnable". The lid is replaced and the casket loaded into the oven chamber. They don't (normally) do the burns until after dark.

The next day, things get a bit weird (from a Western point of view at least). I had to go to the temple very early. The caretakers gathered the ashes into buckets and dumped them on a board, where they then (using a trowel) arranged them in a vaguely human shape. Some scented water was poured on them, not enough to make them muddy (I think it was supposed to help with the odour).
A monk came by and chanted something for a couple minutes and then left).

For some reason, dad's lady friend had arranged for 2 small urns (one silvery coloured and one brassy/gold coloured). We had to pick out pieces of bone from the different areas of the "body" and place them in the urns. When the urns are full, they place a piece of the skull on top.

I still cringe when I remember the caretaker guy trying to find a piece of the skull that would fit into the urn and then giving one piece a whack with the trowel to break it up into smaller pieces.
Once both urns were full, the remainder of the ashes were loaded into a large metal tub that had been lined with a new linen sheet. The sheet was tied off, we hopped into the caretaker's pickup (with the very hot tub of ashes on my lap) and drove to another temple in North Pattaya. 

There we end up walking out on a pier to what appeared to be an abandoned building built over the water, well offshore. The monks have set up some stuff there and after another short chanting session with one monk, we opened the sheet and dumped the rest of dad's ashes into the ocean.

(Note: the "silver" urn went into the "alcove" at the temple and the "gold" urn went home with me where it sits in the little "ancestral" shrine like some people have in their homes.)

Normally they won't do the Probate until 45 days after death, to give people/creditors/etc time to make claims on the estate (I think this goes back to the days when getting from one part of the country to another could take days or longer - the same reasoning for why they offer "3 day" cremation ceremonies).

I had to appear in court (with my lawyer, who had one of her staff there as well to do the translating as everything is done in Thai of course).

I had to swear an affirmation (they give you a choice between a "god" or "buddha" oath  - I mumbled through a non-religious affirmation).

The lawyer and the judge did some question/answer stuff, the judge asked me a couple of questions (I think to get me "on the record" as stating that I was dad's only living relative and only heir).
Took about 15 minutes and then a couple weeks later the lawyers had all the paperwork done so I could close out dad's bank accounts and dispose of his property (all he had really was a couple small scooters). 

That would have been when I could have disposed of any property he had, if he'd had any.

(I then had to make a trip back to Canada to have his Canadian Will probated and do all the stuff back there, like get his pensions stopped and close out bank accounts and so on, which is why I needed all those Certified True Copies of the Death Certificate.

It can be a lot of work for sure. In my case, as it was my dad, I wasn't concerned about the "rewards". (I had told him years earlier to spend it all and have a good time and not worry about leaving me anything !)
It was a lot of effort and a huge learning experience and of course quite emotional at times. Made me wish I'd done some things differently (as always - hindsight is 20/20).

So again, my advise to you is, see a lawyer and try to arrange as much as you can ahead of time (like checking with the embassy, getting the blue book dealt with one way or another, scouting out some temples - the lawyer may even be able to help with that - maybe).
If you have some Thai friends, they can help out with all the "after death" stuff (like the funeral arrangements and procedures and so on).

In my case, dad's lady friend did do a lot (helping with the Death Certificate and the arrangements at the temple) and my other Thai friends helped me with the actual cremation ceremony procedures.

Quite frankly, I'd have been screwed if I had to try and do it all by myself, especially back then (when I was still working overseas and didn't have a lot of time to get things done).

(it's also stuff to think about personally - like what's going to happen to my stuff when I die. I know - I'll be dead and won't care. However I'm not dead yet and do care - a little - about making some arrangements now. If nothing else, to make sure that the government doesn't end up getting it all. Which is what happens when people die and don't leave a Will and have no relatives/dependants/spouses/etc. Eventually the gov't gets all their stuff and disposes of it - one way or another).



 

Thank you for your very informative post. I found it very interesting as did my Thai partner. You make it very clear what needs to be done. One question if you don’t mind me asking about how much did it all cost. Best wishes 

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, spornb said:

The extra information provides background, like the old Mercedes, only certain types would have this !!, it maybe shows the man be discussed is not an uncomplicated individual, more interesting is did he have it from new !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

To gather information sometimes a little extra needs adding, nothing was given away

 

Read my earlier post to validate some of the information I add far more than needed

 

Fortunately we are all different

 

 

God Bless

my reply was aimed at the original poster, not you, therefore your earlier comments are not relevant to my post.

in the op, the actual question is: My question is does his Thai wife have a claim on the condo if it was purchased before she was in a relationship / marriage with him.

 

to answer this question the actual location of the condo, the fact that the man is 75 years old sick person, the fact that he owns a car and which type of a car and how old is three car, what this man want to be done with his remains and if he is complicated person our not - ask that makes no difference to the legal question asked

[blackcab]

5 hours ago, henry15 said:

You and you allone decide what happens the inheritence of the deceased, of there is no will.

 

The executor can decide, but within the boundaries of Sections 1629 and 1630 of the Civil and Commercial Code.

 

The executor cannot, for example, give the entire estate to the cats home if there are statutory heirs.

 

5 hours ago, henry15 said:

...he can even lock te property  and deny entry to the husband or wife.

 

Not if the property is co-owned by the surviving spouse or indeed by any other person.

 

5 hours ago, henry15 said:

...the inheritants are powerless to stop it.

 

Section 1727 of the CCC:

 

Any interested person may, prior to the completion of the distribution of the estate, apply to the Court for the discharge of an administrator for reason of neglect of his duties or any other reasonable cause.

[Kerryd]

On 9/9/2019 at 11:46 AM, musicscene said:

Thank you for your very informative post. I found it very interesting as did my Thai partner. You make it very clear what needs to be done. One question if you don’t mind me asking about how much did it all cost. Best wishes 

Hard to say actually. I'm going off of (9 year old) memory now but I think the Lawyers charged me 10% of the estimated value of the estate (which was either capped at 100,000 baht or that was what they calculated the 10% to be). That was paid out of the estate account (or would have been - I probably just paid them myself as I was going to get whatever was in the estate anyways).
That would be something to settle with the lawyer beforehand (i.e. when making a new Will) so there are no surprises at the end. I think dad's lawyer charged 10,000 for the Will when he first had it made up. I use the same lawyer for other matters and naturally went with them to deal with dad's probate. 
Different lawyers/firms may have different rates of course.

I think the ceremony at the temple was 80,000 but I probably got screwed on that. Dad's lady friend probably told me the price for the 3 day ceremony she wanted and then paid for the 1 day ceremony the temple was willing to do. I didn't understand any of the conversation and she wasn't very forthcoming (as she was seriously trying to maximize her "reward" for staying with dad for the previous 1 1/2 years).
(I was working overseas and making "war zone money" at the time and wasn't fretting the costs as much as I was the limited amount of time I had to get everything done before having to leave again.) 
If I had to do it over again, being a little older and (hopefully) a little wiser, I'd talk to the monk(s) myself or at least have someone "friendly" with me to translate. I'm sure a lot of the temples are experienced with funerals for foreigners and have someone who can discuss the matter with them.

I would also expect that ceremonies outside of the major population centers would be considerably cheaper than those in the big cities. There is no way they are charging Thai people 80,000 baht for a 1 day cremation ceremony !
(Back in the g/f's village, an ancient aunt died a few months ago. They actually kept the body at the house for 3 days, then took it to the temple to be cremated. Apparently that is quite common. Not sure I'd want a dead body in my home for 3 days, even if I was running the aircon 24/7 on the lowest setting but maybe the local temple doesn't have a "cooler" to store bodies in like they do at other places.)

The other costs were minimal (like getting the Death Certificate translated and paying for the Certified True Copies). The lawyer's fee included providing the translator when I went to court (very helpful if you don't have a wife or g/f or someone else to translate for you). 

One of the biggest hassles of course is time. It's rare to know exactly when someone is going to die and be able to prepare things ahead of time, but suddenly, after they have passed, it seems everything has to be done in "double-quick time" (ex military will understand that term).

Doing what you can ahead of time will make things so much easier afterwards.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised that no one (that I know of) has a company that specializes in just this matter. I'm sure there are plenty of foreigners of various nationalities dying here pretty much everyday (you don't hear about all of them as most don't make the news at all).

Hmmmm, business opportunity perhaps ? Happily Ever After Funeral Services specializing in dealing with foreigners who've died in country ? (It's actually something I've thought of before, after reading some other threads in years past from people that also didn't know what to do after someone dies in Thailand.)
  

[musicscene]

6 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Hard to say actually. I'm going off of (9 year old) memory now but I think the Lawyers charged me 10% of the estimated value of the estate (which was either capped at 100,000 baht or that was what they calculated the 10% to be). That was paid out of the estate account (or would have been - I probably just paid them myself as I was going to get whatever was in the estate anyways).
That would be something to settle with the lawyer beforehand (i.e. when making a new Will) so there are no surprises at the end. I think dad's lawyer charged 10,000 for the Will when he first had it made up. I use the same lawyer for other matters and naturally went with them to deal with dad's probate. 
Different lawyers/firms may have different rates of course.

I think the ceremony at the temple was 80,000 but I probably got screwed on that. Dad's lady friend probably told me the price for the 3 day ceremony she wanted and then paid for the 1 day ceremony the temple was willing to do. I didn't understand any of the conversation and she wasn't very forthcoming (as she was seriously trying to maximize her "reward" for staying with dad for the previous 1 1/2 years).
(I was working overseas and making "war zone money" at the time and wasn't fretting the costs as much as I was the limited amount of time I had to get everything done before having to leave again.) 
If I had to do it over again, being a little older and (hopefully) a little wiser, I'd talk to the monk(s) myself or at least have someone "friendly" with me to translate. I'm sure a lot of the temples are experienced with funerals for foreigners and have someone who can discuss the matter with them.

I would also expect that ceremonies outside of the major population centers would be considerably cheaper than those in the big cities. There is no way they are charging Thai people 80,000 baht for a 1 day cremation ceremony !
(Back in the g/f's village, an ancient aunt died a few months ago. They actually kept the body at the house for 3 days, then took it to the temple to be cremated. Apparently that is quite common. Not sure I'd want a dead body in my home for 3 days, even if I was running the aircon 24/7 on the lowest setting but maybe the local temple doesn't have a "cooler" to store bodies in like they do at other places.)

The other costs were minimal (like getting the Death Certificate translated and paying for the Certified True Copies). The lawyer's fee included providing the translator when I went to court (very helpful if you don't have a wife or g/f or someone else to translate for you). 

One of the biggest hassles of course is time. It's rare to know exactly when someone is going to die and be able to prepare things ahead of time, but suddenly, after they have passed, it seems everything has to be done in "double-quick time" (ex military will understand that term).

Doing what you can ahead of time will make things so much easier afterwards.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised that no one (that I know of) has a company that specializes in just this matter. I'm sure there are plenty of foreigners of various nationalities dying here pretty much everyday (you don't hear about all of them as most don't make the news at all).

Hmmmm, business opportunity perhaps ? Happily Ever After Funeral Services specializing in dealing with foreigners who've died in country ? (It's actually something I've thought of before, after reading some other threads in years past from people that also didn't know what to do after someone dies in Thailand.)
  

Thank you for your information regarding the costs I am sure many readers here will appreciate you being so open and honest enabling us to understand what the costs and problems can be in this situation