Motorcyclists demand the right to use under and overpasses in Bangkok

[webfact]

Motorcyclists demand the right to use under and overpasses in Bangkok

 

 

About 500 motorcyclists rallied in front of the City Hall in Bangkok on Sunday to demand the right to use under and overpasses, which they have been barred from using for the past three years on safety grounds.

 

The group handed a letter of demand, addressed to Bangkok Governor Aswin Kwanmuang, which was received by Mr. Kosin Thetwong, assistant secretary to the governor.

 

Mr. Pirasith Jeerawong, a leader of the group, said that the current ban is unfair, pointing out that most of the road accidents involving motorcyclists were not caused by the use of under or overpasses, but by speeding or reckless driving by individual bikers.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/motorcyclists-demand-the-right-to-use-under-and-overpasses-in-bangkok/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2019-09-09

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[prism]

They should at least allow larger motorcycles, >300 cc to use the under and over passes. 

[Kerryd]

Of course those "speeding/reckless" riders would never ride like that when using under/overpasses. 

Also, it's kind of hard to claim that "most of the road accidents involving motorcyclists were not caused by the use of under or overpasses" when motorcycles haven't been allowed to use those to begin with !
It's like saying that most motorcycle accidents don't happen on the toll highways - where motorcycles aren't even allowed !

I'm sure it wouldn't be long before the number of accidents involving motorcyles using under/overpasses would rapidly climb to equal those that happen everywhere else. The difference being that (usually) under/overpasses are more congested parts of the road (choke points) and accidents in those places are much harder to clear or divert traffic around.

Letting motorcycles use those would, without doubt, lead to more accidents in those places, leading to even more traffic problems.

 

And yes, I ride motorcycles (a Harley and a scooter). I find it quite annoying that I can't ride the big bike on the toll highways but I know what would happen if they changed the rules.

If they came out tomorrow and said bikes over 600ccs could use the toll highways, within days every Somchai and moto-vendor cart in the country would be clogging up the lanes as they would all decide that if "that" motorcycle can go there then so can I (and the toll booth operators would probably just let them through). Then you'd also have the problem with all ID-10-Ts racing their 110cc scooters in and out of the traffic like they already do on the non-toll highways and streets.

 

Opening up the under/overpasses to motorcycles would be of benefit to those people of course. Not sure if it would be of benefit to everyone else though.

[robblok]

The guy makes a good point there are hardly any problems with motorcycles using the over and underpasses. Bikes have been allowed to use them for a long time and then all of a sudden not anymore. They should let us them again. Its plain stupidity. What they should do is bank those food bikes 3 wheel slow contraptions from using them. 

 

The better it is for bikes the less cars are used the less crowded BKK is. Motorbikes take up much less space and move around faster then cars. 

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Of course those "speeding/reckless" riders would never ride like that when using under/overpasses. 

Also, it's kind of hard to claim that "most of the road accidents involving motorcyclists were not caused by the use of under or overpasses" when motorcycles haven't been allowed to use those to begin with !
It's like saying that most motorcycle accidents don't happen on the toll highways - where motorcycles aren't even allowed !

I'm sure it wouldn't be long before the number of accidents involving motorcyles using under/overpasses would rapidly climb to equal those that happen everywhere else. The difference being that (usually) under/overpasses are more congested parts of the road (choke points) and accidents in those places are much harder to clear or divert traffic around.

Letting motorcycles use those would, without doubt, lead to more accidents in those places, leading to even more traffic problems.

 

And yes, I ride motorcycles (a Harley and a scooter). I find it quite annoying that I can't ride the big bike on the toll highways but I know what would happen if they changed the rules.

If they came out tomorrow and said bikes over 600ccs could use the toll highways, within days every Somchai and moto-vendor cart in the country would be clogging up the lanes as they would all decide that if "that" motorcycle can go there then so can I (and the toll booth operators would probably just let them through). Then you'd also have the problem with all ID-10-Ts racing their 110cc scooters in and out of the traffic like they already do on the non-toll highways and streets.

 

Opening up the under/overpasses to motorcycles would be of benefit to those people of course. Not sure if it would be of benefit to everyone else though.

I am not sure you know but before motorbikes were allowed to use the over and under passes. And so they could have good figures about the accidents not happening there. In all my time I never seen an accident with a bike on an over or under pass.

 

Near Ngam Wong Wan you can take the overpass going towards bkk.. but not the same overpass going back (makes no sense at all) So there was no logic with that decision to begin with.

 

Motorbikes never stop traffic as much as cars and they should encourage people to use motorbikes not cars. Traffic would be far better. 

[Deli]

I wish they would protest in 50.000 not 500 only.

Learn from Hong Kong how to do it.

[tomazbodner]

Will the next demand be the right to use footpath? First park on footpath. Then drive on footpath. Then mow down pedestrians... Then beat them up if they complain...

 

As for whether they should be allowed to use them or not, not just their convenience but safety and convenience of others should also be considered and if deemed not to be a problem for most, those should be allowed to drive, and law narrowed to only those that it's unsafe for or those that negatively affect others. They didn't come up with this rule out of thin air 3 years back, there had to be a reason. And as usual, rule was written as an overkill and should be revised.

[Kerryd]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

I am not sure you know but before motorbikes were allowed to use the over and under passes. And so they could have good figures about the accidents not happening there. In all my time I never seen an accident with a bike on an over or under pass.

Motorbikes never stop traffic as much as cars and they should encourage people to use motorbikes not cars. Traffic would be far better. 

True (I didn't know) but they must have changed that quite awhile ago.

 

Back when we could use the overpass to go from Sukhumvit onto highway 7 (in Pattaya) they had a lot of accidents, almost all of them involving motorcycles (usually resulting in the motorcycle and rider/passengers going over the railing in the curve and landing on the roadway below). 
Once they put the toll booths in, that cut down on the accidents as few people (on motorcycles) use that particular overpass anymore.

True too that motorcycles don't stop traffic as much as cars do as they generally ride in, around and between the cars.

However, it is also true that something like 70% of all vehicle accidents (and/or fatalities) in Thailand involve motorcycles.
 
Also, from my experience, when there's an accident involving a motorcycle, it usually results in the moto simply being pulled/pushed/dragged off to the side so that traffic can continue whereas if a car/truck is involved, it blocks traffic until they can get a tow vehicle in there to move it.

 

There are pros/cons to both sides I imagine. Perhaps if they let motorcycles use the over/underpasses (again) it would cut down on the number of cars (as some people may switch to motos instead of having to drive their more expensive cars just so they can use those over/underpasse) ?

I hate the thought of driving in Bangkok, even on a scooter ! Would hate to try and get around the city on the Harley !

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Kerryd said:

True (I didn't know) but they must have changed that quite awhile ago.

 

Back when we could use the overpass to go from Sukhumvit onto highway 7 (in Pattaya) they had a lot of accidents, almost all of them involving motorcycles (usually resulting in the motorcycle and rider/passengers going over the railing in the curve and landing on the roadway below). 
Once they put the toll booths in, that cut down on the accidents as few people (on motorcycles) use that particular overpass anymore.

True too that motorcycles don't stop traffic as much as cars do as they generally ride in, around and between the cars.

However, it is also true that something like 70% of all vehicle accidents (and/or fatalities) in Thailand involve motorcycles.
 
Also, from my experience, when there's an accident involving a motorcycle, it usually results in the moto simply being pulled/pushed/dragged off to the side so that traffic can continue whereas if a car/truck is involved, it blocks traffic until they can get a tow vehicle in there to move it.

 

There are pros/cons to both sides I imagine. Perhaps if they let motorcycles use the over/underpasses (again) it would cut down on the number of cars (as some people may switch to motos instead of having to drive their more expensive cars just so they can use those over/underpasse) ?

I hate the thought of driving in Bangkok, even on a scooter ! Would hate to try and get around the city on the Harley !

I have driven in and around BKK but avoid the center, not because of traffic just because I don't know the way. I usually ride my bike (aerox ) up to mochit take a bts further in from there. 

 

Its just annoying all these little rules that keep motorcycles that take up a lot less room from driving around. Its cars that make traffic jams not bikes. Just a class thing, give me my bike over my car all the time if i need to go fast. 

 

I would never try to get around on a Harley that is just madness all the advantages of a car and not even an aircon. Its just too big to use in BKK.

[DefaultName]

Motorways would be nice.

[gunderhill]

They use them anyway, the whole thing like TM30 is ridiculous nonsense, they should be  allowed to use  them.

[OneMoreFarang]

How many care about that rule in the moment?

Personally I use any under- or overpass I want to use. If the police stops me 1 in 100 time and collects 100B that's 1B per usage. I can live with that.

[webfact]

Bikers seek access to all bridges and underpasses

By The Nation

 

 

Bangkok Governor Pol Gen Aswin Kwanmuang said today (September 9) that it was not within the jurisdiction of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration office (BMA) to allow motorcyclists access to bridges and underpasses, after receiving a request from the ‘Two-wheel transport and motorcyclist freedom’ group on Sunday (September 8).

 

He said the ban on motorcycles travelling on bridges and underpasses was part of the traffic laws.

 

However, Aswin said, some bridges currently allow entry of motorcycles such as the Somdet Phra Pinklao bridge, Taksin bridge, and Phra Pok Klao bridge. Related agencies will have to discuss the request, in terms of necessity and safety, before making a decision.

 

“We won’t ignore the voice of ‘Two-wheel transport and motorcyclist freedom’ group, the suggestion will be forwarded to the Transport department and related agencies," Aswin said.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30375984

 

-- © Copyright The Nation Thailand 2019-09-09

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[Curt1591]

9 hours ago, prism said:

They should at least allow larger motorcycles, >300 cc to use the under and over passes. 

What does displacement have to do with it?

[mrfill]

32 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

What does displacement have to do with it?

Only more affluent people can afford bigger bikes so this would keep the riff-raff off the under/over passes and in their place.

[fxe1200]

On highways in my home country you are required to not ride/drive slower than 60km/h. And there are no restrictions for motorcycles. There are no restrictions in France, Italy, Spain, Austria and more states.  And there is no point to restrict the use of underpasses, overpasses and highways at all.

[Curt1591]

It wouldn't be so bad if one could continue on through the intersection. I find that many of these intersections force one to turn - no through traffic. Then, on down the road, one is forced to make a U-turn, a much more dangerous situation!

Edited September 9, 2019 by Curt1591

[NoshowJones]

11 hours ago, prism said:

They should at least allow larger motorcycles, >300 cc to use the under and over passes. 

and also to use the carriageways, ie, the one which passes Don Muang airport. I should not have to ride on them with 300Bt in my pocket all the time.

[SS1]

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How many care about that rule in the moment?

Personally I use any under- or overpass I want to use. If the police stops me 1 in 100 time and collects 100B that's 1B per usage. I can live with that.

It's true, nobody cares about it and I never will. The issue is just that if you have an accident as a biker, you'd probably be legally guilty whatever the circumstances as you're not supposed to ride there. 

I 100% agree that the ancient laws should be changed. I do understand where they come from though, as I was just riding over the overpass on Rama 9 road the other day. All the other traffic was going 80km/h as per the speed limit, but there was one helmetless somchai grandpa riding his old two stroker at 50km/h on the left side. Caused an awkward situation as I was filtering through but a car overtaking me swerved in front to avoid the old man. 

Nowadays most motorbikes can easily go well over the 80km/h Bangkok speed limit. The problem is that some of those smaller +100cc scooters are not able to go 80km/h safely because of their <deleted>ty brakes and suspension. So I guess they should set the limit somewhere.. with a slightly bigger scooter (Aerox 155) already no issues. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by SS1

[tifino]

a bottomline argument in their favor:

 

 - a car driver would be equally as dead as were a rider,

if his car were bounced over the side of a bridge...

[BMW Overlander]

14 hours ago, mrfill said:

Only more affluent people can afford bigger bikes so this would keep the riff-raff off the under/over passes and in their place.

More like 1000cc.

Lots of riff-raffs below 1000.

[robblok]

9 hours ago, SS1 said:

It's true, nobody cares about it and I never will. The issue is just that if you have an accident as a biker, you'd probably be legally guilty whatever the circumstances as you're not supposed to ride there. 

I 100% agree that the ancient laws should be changed. I do understand where they come from though, as I was just riding over the overpass on Rama 9 road the other day. All the other traffic was going 80km/h as per the speed limit, but there was one helmetless somchai grandpa riding his old two stroker at 50km/h on the left side. Caused an awkward situation as I was filtering through but a car overtaking me swerved in front to avoid the old man. 

Nowadays most motorbikes can easily go well over the 80km/h Bangkok speed limit. The problem is that some of those smaller +100cc scooters are not able to go 80km/h safely because of their <deleted>ty brakes and suspension. So I guess they should set the limit somewhere.. with a slightly bigger scooter (Aerox 155) already no issues. 

Sure the problem is those slow moving scooters and food carts that make it hard. Those should be banned from using flyovers and underpasses and other places where they endanger everyone. But the majority of new scooters can goo easily up to 80 Km or more my Aerox has no problems what so ever. 

[Geoffggi]

16 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

What does displacement have to do with it?

When the current laws were made the only legal larger motorcycles were 150cc hence bikes were, and I believe still are forbidden on the highways

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Sure the problem is those slow moving scooters and food carts that make it hard. Those should be banned from using flyovers and underpasses and other places where they endanger everyone. But the majority of new scooters can goo easily up to 80 Km or more my Aerox has no problems what so ever. 

I believe those 'food carts' are technically illegal anyway.

[HHTel]

15 hours ago, fxe1200 said:

On highways in my home country you are required to not ride/drive slower than 60km/h. And there are no restrictions for motorcycles. There are no restrictions in France, Italy, Spain, Austria and more states.  And there is no point to restrict the use of underpasses, overpasses and highways at all.

Comparing laws/rules in Europe is not a like for like comparison.  Although I agree in principle for allowing bikes access to bridges etc., the main problem here is the sheer volume of motorbike traffic.

[SS1]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Sure the problem is those slow moving scooters and food carts that make it hard. Those should be banned from using flyovers and underpasses and other places where they endanger everyone. But the majority of new scooters can goo easily up to 80 Km or more my Aerox has no problems what so ever. 

The Aerox 155 is the best ???? I've got mine with a variator mod for better acceleration (top speed still 110km/h), RCB rear shocks and stiffer front springs for farang weight. It's a weapon.. I choose it every day over my 1000cc for Bangkok. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, SS1 said:

The Aerox 155 is the best ???? I've got mine with a variator mod for better acceleration (top speed still 110km/h), RCB rear shocks and stiffer front springs for farang weight. It's a weapon.. I choose it every day over my 1000cc for Bangkok. 

I had a 650cc ninja... but i prefer this scooter, not only because its smaller but because it has good space for shopping. That is what i use it for mostly. Those bigger bikes are not good for it at all.

[snowgard]

16 hours ago, fxe1200 said:

On highways in my home country you are required to not ride/drive slower than 60km/h. And there are no restrictions for motorcycles. There are no restrictions in France, Italy, Spain, Austria and more states.  And there is no point to restrict the use of underpasses, overpasses and highways at all.

But in your home country, bikers (& car drivers) can also drive around corners without slowing down to snail speed or cutting other lanes. And they do not fall off the bridge driveway !!! ????

[BKKMG]

2 hours ago, HHTel said:

I believe those 'food carts' are technically illegal anyway.

Technically illegal? I think that refers to more than half the bikes in use. No licence, no helmet, no lights etc. The 'food carts' are especially dangerous as many are completely unlit and difficult to avoid at night when suddenly coming across one. This may be the reasoning behind the access to bridges and underpasses. If it rained, they would possibly set up shop in an underpass....????

[HHTel]

57 minutes ago, BKKMG said:

Technically illegal? I think that refers to more than half the bikes in use. No licence, no helmet, no lights etc.

That doesn't make the bike illegal, it makes the drivers illegal surely.