Britain may need a second Brexit referendum, says former PM Cameron

[sotsira]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Should be given an MBE. The first PM to not brush the European issue under the carpet as we sleepwalked into EU control.

 

Would have been better if he was a Leaver but I'll cut him some slack since he started the movement albeit unwittingly. 

The reason the loser Cameron offered the Referendum was 

because Nigel Farage with his growing UKIP support, was taking

Conservative voters away from him.

It was all about Party Politics for Cameron to gain back support,

but it all backfired on him, when to his surprise,

 LOST the Referendum.

MBE's are given for achievements not failures.

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It wasnt Cameron that choose May

But he knew that the odds were good.

[Slip]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

TBF , Considering Cameron was a Remainer , he thought someone should lead the Brexit negotiations

 

31 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Another remainer.

Can any of the members who always say that May was a remainer explain why it was she decided to try to invoke article 50 using the royal prerogative rather than via parliamentary debate?  Was it because she already new parliament was against it or was there another reason? If the former how does that sit with her being a remainer?  If the latter could you please enlighten us all?

[transam]

3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You know it won’t happened and the majority will be relived for Brexit to be dumped. Get a new hobby. 

You mean they will be reborn....?

You have a new hobby, what is it, looking into a...........?

[transam]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You need to pay more attention to the defending democracy bit.

 

Says the bloke who doesn't....????‍♂️

[dunroaming]

5 hours ago, pegman said:

Just maybe, a better idea than having a 2nd vote would have been not having the 1st, you moron. This guy talking about Brexit is kinda like Blair speaking of the Iraq War. Both should shut the hell up about it.

Certainly right that there should never have been a referendum and in fairness, Cameron never wanted one either.  It was the rise of UKIP that rattled him and he bottled it.  Then it became a political game with Gove stabbing Cameron in the back (and then Johnson) and Boris switching teams at the last minute.

 

Cameron's book is out and that is why he has raised his head once again.  His interview in The Times has him savaging Johnson and Gove over their behaviour in the referendum.

 

The calls for a second referendum are rising again but I don't think that would give us a "fix" to the problems with government or in the house.  I have always thought a general election would be better because then you can kick these clowns into touch.  Problem with that is that in a GE people should be voting on the big issues in society and not just this divisive Brexit.  At least with a dreaded referendum it focuses on one issue.

[leither69]

5 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

If they do it again, maybe, the public will take it seriously enough to give a definitive result one way or the other. 

What was the last one!! Wasn't a million people not sufficient?

[dunroaming]

8 minutes ago, leither69 said:

What was the last one!! Wasn't a million people not sufficient?

In the last one many people didn't bother voting as they thought the result would be a forgone conclusion to remain.  They wouldn't make the same mistake again.

[yogi100]

This is the same Dave Cameron who says the idea of the referendum was the biggest mistake he ever made in his life.

 

Now he's saying that we should have another one!

 

If his chums in Westminster had got on and responded to the result in the first place Brexit would be history by now and we would not be plagued with it every time we open a newspaper or turn the TV or radio on.

 

We're in our 4th year of it now!

[Loiner]

7 minutes ago, leither69 said:

What was the last one!! Wasn't a million people not sufficient?

It would have been in the real world, but in Remainer world it has been previously shown to be not enough. The Europhiles with their Federast ideals will keep trying to get another vote until their preferred option is the winner.

 

Fortunately the govt was stung once and won't let us ever have another one, at least until they are absolutely sure their lies and trickery will result in their desired result.

[yogi100]

Just now, dunroaming said:

In the last one many people didn't bother voting as they thought the result would be a forgone conclusion to remain.  They wouldn't make the same mistake again.

If we have to it again more people will be voting to leave out of the disgust and the contempt we have for our pro remain politicians.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

In the last one many people didn't bother voting as they thought the result would be a forgone conclusion to remain.  They wouldn't make the same mistake again.

You are being very presumptuous to think that the electorate that decided not to vote would be remainers.

Edited September 14, 2019 by vogie

[Monomial]

4 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Interesting to look at the polls regarding voting again running from the referendum up until now. Remain seems to be ahead the majority of the time and most assuredly over the last 12 months. Interesting reading for those who say the voice of the people and genuine democracy are important.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

 

Remain was also ahead in the polls in 2016 when Leave won.  There is an interesting phenomenon that occurs in polling where people are biased towards the status quo.  It is the same thing that causes people to respond "I'm fine" in social conversations, when they are anything but. But that bias vanishes when the curtain is closed on the polling booth and they are forced to make a choice. It's not a big bias, but it is enough that you can't discount it entirely when numbers are this close.

 

What is driving Brexit at the core is that many are fed up with the status quo. They want something else, even if that something else is worse. And the more you hammer home how bad that something else is, the more they simply repress their true feelings...right up until the curtain closes on the polling booth. Because people vote with emotions, not with their head. I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe the situation is better for the majority in the UK, so I am distrustful of a poll that says otherwise.

 

My prediction is that if you had another vote today, you would see almost exactly the same result as 2016. Those that are benefitting from the status quo are still benefitting. Those that are marginalized are still marginalized. For all the bluster by the political establishment, there has been almost no change.

 

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Former British prime minister David Cameron, who took the decision in 2016 to hold a referendum on the country's membership of the European Union, said another vote may be needed to resolve the Brexit impasse.

The first vote gave the word to exit the EU... it still stands !

A 2nd vote is not needed just because politicians screwed up the first negotiations by following what they personally wanted rather than what the democratic vote determined the people wanted! 

[Thingamabob]

Leave will again win another referendum, current betting is 45% Remain, 55% Leave. Alternatively, Brexiteers will win a general election given that Labour are all over the place. They can run but they can't hide forever.

[Thingamabob]

5 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Interesting to look at the polls regarding voting again running from the referendum up until now. Remain seems to be ahead the majority of the time and most assuredly over the last 12 months. Interesting reading for those who say the voice of the people and genuine democracy are important.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

What Brexit friends ? Don't believe a word of this.

[jesimps]

We had a referendum already. Leave won. Still waiting for parliament to take us out. Pointless having another. Anyway, remoaners would only honour the result if they won.

[Krataiboy]

  

And the BBC headlines...

  Quote

David Cameron: Johnson and Gove behaved 'appallingly'

 

David Cameron has accused the current prime minister, Boris Johnson, and Michael Gove of behaving "appallingly" during the EU referendum campaign.

Speaking to the Times ahead of the launch of his memoir, the former Tory PM attacked some colleagues who backed Leave for "trashing the government".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49690618

Edited 6 hours ago by Basil B

 

Well, who'd have thought it? As if Project Fear wasn't enough, the Beeb is now leading the charge for Project Smear!

 

Every Brexiteer should respond by refusing to pay the licence fee which keeps this decrepit and disreputable propaganda machine running. 

[Laughing Gravy]

Oh come on Dave, your book is due out, you have smoked a bit of weed and now the once in a generation referendum result that the government would respect, now needs another go at it.

 

Some people have short memories but you were a laughing stock whilst the Blair government were in power, until the reality kicked in that he was a bigger liar than you, so no other options but vote the Cons.  If it wasn't for your Astar connections you would have stayed a gofer for some politician.

 

Do the best thing possible and climb back into the hole, you have just poked your nasty little lying head from.

 

People forget that you also promised a referendum in 2009 which you ignored until Nigel Farage in 2014 was ready to topple you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonnapat]

The buck stops firmly with Cameron, never a need for the first  referendum, only took place to placate the hard line nationalists in the Tory party.

Three totally wasted years arguing about Brexit when serious business could have been taking place.

What a total disaster this will be for many people and companies if MPs don't get this thing sorted very quickly. 

No doubt we can expect more lies and trickery from Johnson / Cummings during this parliament shutdown.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Slip said:

 

Can any of the members who always say that May was a remainer explain why it was she decided to try to invoke article 50 using the royal prerogative rather than via parliamentary debate?  Was it because she already new parliament was against it or was there another reason? If the former how does that sit with her being a remainer?  If the latter could you please enlighten us all?

Well you could also ask why it took 9 months for her to pull the trigger?

 

And if any doubt of her leaning here's a pre ref statement:

 

The usual economic-only remainer argument. 

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

The buck stops firmly with Cameron, never a need for the first  referendum, only took place to placate the hard line nationalists in the Tory party.

Three totally wasted years arguing about Brexit when serious business could have been taking place.

What a total disaster this will be for many people and companies if MPs don't get this thing sorted very quickly. 

No doubt we can expect more lies and trickery from Johnson / Cummings during this parliament shutdown.

Of course there was a need. Look at the result.

[DannyCarlton]

10 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

The buck stops firmly with Cameron, never a need for the first  referendum, only took place to placate the hard line nationalists in the Tory party.

Three totally wasted years arguing about Brexit when serious business could have been taking place.

What a total disaster this will be for many people and companies if MPs don't get this thing sorted very quickly. 

No doubt we can expect more lies and trickery from Johnson / Cummings during this parliament shutdown.

Not sure about Cummings. I think he may be running scared. He now claims that "rich remainers" are trying to run him out of London. Don't be surprised if he leaves the sinking ship and disappears soon.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Monomial said:

 

Remain was also ahead in the polls in 2016 when Leave won.  There is an interesting phenomenon that occurs in polling where people are biased towards the status quo.  It is the same thing that causes people to respond "I'm fine" in social conversations, when they are anything but. But that bias vanishes when the curtain is closed on the polling booth and they are forced to make a choice. It's not a big bias, but it is enough that you can't discount it entirely when numbers are this close.

 

What is driving Brexit at the core is that many are fed up with the status quo. They want something else, even if that something else is worse. And the more you hammer home how bad that something else is, the more they simply repress their true feelings...right up until the curtain closes on the polling booth. Because people vote with emotions, not with their head. I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe the situation is better for the majority in the UK, so I am distrustful of a poll that says otherwise.

 

My prediction is that if you had another vote today, you would see almost exactly the same result as 2016. Those that are benefitting from the status quo are still benefitting. Those that are marginalized are still marginalized. For all the bluster by the political establishment, there has been almost no change.

 

And more people have since come to realise that the so-called "status quo" is anything but. 

[Laughing Gravy]

27 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

The buck stops firmly with Cameron, never a need for the first  referendum, only took place to placate the hard line nationalists in the Tory party.

So why no need. We ere shamefully lied to get us in the EEC and any attempts to question that were scuppered. $3 yaers of fighting for a referendum which Cameron had mentioned over a 7 year period and retracted.

 

27 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Three totally wasted years arguing about Brexit when serious business could have been taking place.

Because parliament want to remain in the EU and care nothing about the people or the vote. The referendum should have been a neutral affair and unbiased. Instead DC the PM spent 9 pl;us million pounds on leaflets promoting remain. Have you forgot or didn't you get one, if your not British.

 

27 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

What a total disaster this will be for many people and companies if MPs don't get this thing sorted very quickly. 

Been hearing the same claptrap for over 3 years. The person on the street knows it is rubbish as we would have sall been living in cardboard boxes and eating grass.

 

27 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

No doubt we can expect more lies and trickery from Johnson / Cummings during this parliament shutdown.

27 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

 

Well if there was a "liemeter' the remain side would have won hands down.

 

If you remember the cry wolf story. The remainers are on version 234. It has had more sequels than the Rocky movies.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Laughing Gravy

[Nigel Garvie]

41 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

What Brexit friends ? Don't believe a word of this.

Were you replying to the below post, I can see no mention of "Brexit friends", or did you lose the plot?

42 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

6 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Interesting to look at the polls regarding voting again running from the referendum up until now. Remain seems to be ahead the majority of the time and most assuredly over the last 12 months. Interesting reading for those who say the voice of the people and genuine democracy are important.

https://whatukthinks. etc

The moderator has simply posted a poll which is relevant to the topic, to allow the debate to be better informed IMHO.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, Slip said:

 

Can any of the members who always say that May was a remainer explain why it was she decided to try to invoke article 50 using the royal prerogative rather than via parliamentary debate?  Was it because she already new parliament was against it or was there another reason? If the former how does that sit with her being a remainer?  If the latter could you please enlighten us all?

She was a remainer and knew the strength of the people wanting to leave the EU. That is why she kept saying a no deal is better than a bad deal whilst always looking to tie the UK to the EU with her BRINO. Which was demolished 3 times in the HoC.

[Jingthing]

Bring it on!

A new vote.

Not stupid self destructive Brexit.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Bring it on!

A new vote.

Not stupid self destructive Brexit.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Say's the bloke from the USA.........Gawd..

[Slip]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

She was a remainer and knew the strength of the people wanting to leave the EU. That is why she kept saying a no deal is better than a bad deal whilst always looking to tie the UK to the EU with her BRINO. Which was demolished 3 times in the HoC.

I don't get you at all.  She was a remainer, and so tried to bypass parliamentary debate to invoke article 50 why?  Her deal was defeated in January 2019 was it not?  I am not asking you to reiterate your opinion about whether May was a remainer or not.  I am asking why, if she was indeed a staunch remainer,  she tried to bypass a commons debate by use of the Royal Prerogative in 2016.