Lack of European visitors the cause of Thailand's tourism woes, says hotelier

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, ICELANDMAN said:

if you are not with someone who speaks one of their dialects you are completely lost. Truly a bad experience.

They all speak English.

I've wandered all over the place, not met anyone that didn't speak English.

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

It is a known fact that the Philippines is a S*Hole.  Only those stuck there wax poetic about it as a face saving response.

I quite like the Philippines,

Don't go there anymore because the return flight was 6,000bht with a change, and now Vietnam gives me a VISA waiver and the return flights are under 3,000bht direct from CNX.

Edited September 19, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

Until Thailand starts quoting real numbers of tourists,overnight change of flights, business visits and visa runs etc the country has absolutely no idea of real tourist numbers. Keep making up rosy numbers while the tourist industry goes down the drain.

I wonder if all the Laos people coming over every day from Suvannakhet to buy their shopping at Makro count as tourists? And the Cambodian builders doing day work over the Aranyaprathet border.

I bet they count every trip over as 1 tourist.

Edited September 19, 2019 by BritManToo

[Mike Teavee]

25 minutes ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

It is a known fact that the Philippines is a S*Hole.  Only those stuck there wax poetic about it as a face saving response.

Again, I'd be interested to know where you've visited in the Philippines to come to conclusion that all 7,107 islands are s*holes.

 

Even Manila (which I personally think is a s*hole) has Taguig/BGC where Condo prices are on a par with Singapore (I looked at moving there with work).

 

Honestly, try Coron in Palawan... https://www.gettingstamped.com/coron-palawan-philippines/ absolutely beautiful place

 

[tomartoh]

The people running Thailand don't care about anything other than what goes in their own pockets.  Speed cameras , onerous immigration rules and whatever else can be thought up all bring money in to be dripped into.  What we think doesn't matter.  You can call us guests,  say it's their country but at the end of the day we are just total nonentities.  The future of tourism here is Quality Tourists ...  55555  ...  from .... ???

[Ctkong]

23 hours ago, legend49 said:

try me!

Making the decision by putting the blame squarely on the local establishments due to the decision of the immigration authority is rather harsh and unfair. People will always suffer from the policies of their ruling party. 

[friend of siam]

17 hours ago, Mikeasq60 said:

I'm reading the baht is being kept artificially high and eventually is going to crash hard is this true?  Why would the Thai govt make the baht appear strong so people can think the economy is booming when In reality it's not 

this is easy answered and a no brainer...a pretty  closed and controlled  market can be easy manipulated by a influental group that has the means..so they oush up the bhat ( strong or weak currency has nothing to do how the economy actually performing..they could starve to death if the money gamblers push the right buttons the value will raise up ) once the bath is really high ( and it will get higher in the next few years ) they will buy some really cheap foreign currency in bulk ...now after they let the bath  crash  and buy back the now cheaper bath  a higher profit is made by a few influental family's...generals...

same with most shares...many the companys who you buy shares are in the minus but the gamblers gamble the price up...

[bkkcanuck8]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I wonder if all the Laos people coming over every day from Suvannakhet to buy their shopping at Makro count as tourists? And the Cambodian builders doing day work over the Aranyaprathet border.

I bet they count every trip over as 1 tourist.

Yes, they would...

[bkkcanuck8]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

1. The condo project or housing association has to first  agree to allow short-term rentals.  So, knowing those good and valid reasons for not having short-term renters, the owners have to first vote yes to even having them.  Seems fair to let the owners vote yea or nay rather than force something on them that they don't want.  The county has still protected the owners who voted no with the following provisions:

     

Yes, the condo project/association should have the right to allow for short-term rentals if they wish... but at the same time they should put into place processes/support to abide by the same regulations as Hotels do.  Once a condo association votes to allow for short-term rentals they are voting that they offer hotel services.

[maddox41]

The expats are overlooked here a bit 

The thai government says there is between 700 to 1 million expats in Thailand so if the spend 20 usd/ 650 000 b per Yr  that amount is roughly  60 billion b. 

Now the chinese tourist spends 1500 usd in 5 days and last Yr  5.5 million visited Thailand the expats market  makes the  roughly the same as the chinese tourist per annum?? The Chinese make up for 20 % of tourism. 

Tourism makes up to 25 % of Thailand gdp and chinese are 5 % of the tourism market  the expats  make  let's say 4% gdp so lose the expats too it isn't so rosy .

Thailand is slowly hanging itself in more ways then one. 

 tourism, exports,  junta, pollution,  corruption, inflated thai b the list is endless. 

I love  thailand but even  I can see the writing is on the wall. 

Its sad really to see it happening and if you don't see it open the blinds and look outside. 

 

[kingdong]

On 9/18/2019 at 7:06 AM, BobbyL said:

They've milked it for years, but now their time has passed. Over the last decade the TAT et al have done nothing to improve the tourism industry here. 

 

Thailand has had the halcyon days of the 80s, 90s and even early 00s when every Tom, Dick and Harry wanted to come here. 

 

It isn't an attractive destination like it used to be, and one thing Thailand will always now struggle with is returning tourists. Once you've been here once it doesn't offer anything different. 

 

 

Very hard to get new tourists in,very easy to lose existing return tourists.

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, maddox41 said:

The expats are overlooked here a bit 

The thai government says there is between 700 to 1 million expats in Thailand so if the spend 20 usd/ 650 000 b per Yr  that amount is roughly  60 billion b. 

Now the chinese tourist spends 1500 usd in 5 days and last Yr  5.5 million visited Thailand the expats market  makes the  roughly the same as the chinese tourist per annum?? The Chinese make up for 20 % of tourism. 

Tourism makes up to 25 % of Thailand gdp and chinese are 5 % of the tourism market  the expats  make  let's say 4% gdp so lose the expats too it isn't so rosy .

Thailand is slowly hanging itself in more ways then one. 

 tourism, exports,  junta, pollution,  corruption, inflated thai b the list is endless. 

I love  thailand but even  I can see the writing is on the wall. 

Its sad really to see it happening and if you don't see it open the blinds and look outside. 

 

Could be the over valued baht could be going for burton shortly,as the high baht makes their tourism and exports more expensive people will just stay away

[garyk]

Thailand is ok. But, as an American it is on my avoid list now. Really, as an expat Thailand for me is only good for one thing.  The beaches and water are filthy. The air pollution is hazardous to your health. Trash everywhere. And as one of the three nationalities that have to deposit money in a Thai bank to retire there, I'll pass?   So, If I want a Thai woman I will go short time when the air pollution is not killing people. 

I will be heading to the Philippines in a few months. A new adventure for me.

But, Mexico is my retirement destination now. Expensive but worth it IMHO.

12 years ago when I first went to Thailand it was pretty cool, now.  Pass

I have been traveling in Mexico for over two months now and there are a lot of Europeans here. Next time I talk to one I will ask them whey they chose Mexico over Asia. 

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, garyk said:

Thailand is ok. But, as an American it is on my avoid list now. Really, as an expat Thailand for me is only good for one thing.  The beaches and water are filthy. The air pollution is hazardous to your health. Trash everywhere. And as one of the three nationalities that have to deposit money in a Thai bank to retire there, I'll pass?   So, If I want a Thai woman I will go short time when the air pollution is not killing people. 

I will be heading to the Philippines in a few months. A new adventure for me.

But, Mexico is my retirement destination now. Expensive but worth it IMHO.

12 years ago when I first went to Thailand it was pretty cool, now.  Pass

I have been traveling in Mexico for over two months now and there are a lot of Europeans here. Next time I talk to one I will ask them whey they chose Mexico over Asia. 

In case you haven't seen it, there's an interesting thread discussing moving to LATAM as an alternative to LOS... 

 

 

I plan to retire in January & have already set-up up my "Life" in Thailand (Condo, recently did the yearly extension for my Non-O etc...) but am hoping to do a 3-6 month trip to South America (Cost Rica, Panama & Columbia), hadn't considered Mexico, would be interesting to hear your thoughts on why you chose it (perhaps you'd consider sharing them in the other thread).

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Ron jeremy]

16 hours ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

It is a known fact that the Philippines is a S*Hole.  Only those stuck there wax poetic about it as a face saving response.

That's quite a nice thing to say. Have you been there???

i haven't but plan to, I did a lot of research, and it looks like a great destination. Spoke with many that loved it. 

Same as Indonesia, spoke to many that also recommend it highly.

cant please everyone, many people say the same about Thailand and pattaya . I have been to pattaya, and to me it is a <deleted>hole, but perhaps not to u. 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ron jeremy

[Teee]

On 9/18/2019 at 8:07 PM, emptypockets said:

So it is always about the money!

Same as every Thai bashing post...always about the money..tourists or broke 'expats' usually lack of.

Ha ha ha ???????????????? you sound like my ex.

So....you tell me how many expats and tourists get about and enjoy their lifes without money.

I suppose you live up country doing nothing.

Or are you one of these single pompous expats who has a bottomless pit of a pension who enjoys all the comforts a asian lady/lb offers.

We are not thai bashers...i love Thailand...did not like living in Bkk but rest of places i love.

I think i speak for majority on here that relies on a good currency exchange to enjoy life in a foreign country.

Next please.....

[garyk]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

In case you haven't seen it, there's an interesting thread discussing moving to LATAM as an alternative to LOS... 

 

 

I plan to retire in January & have already set-up up my "Life" in Thailand (Condo, recently did the yearly extension for my Non-O etc...) but am hoping to do a 3-6 month trip to South America (Cost Rica, Panama & Columbia), hadn't considered Mexico, would be interesting to hear your thoughts on why you chose it (perhaps you'd consider sharing them in the other thread).

 

I did Colombia, a super cheap place to stay. Women?.  Ok.  If looking for a wife it's the place to be IMO. Mexico is about the same. But it's got all the convenient shopping. Women are not as easy by a long shot. Good luck. I have a retirement Visa in Thailand, personally I was getting sick of it way before the new rules went into effect. I am not renewing.  Best of luck.. ????

[ICELANDMAN]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

They all speak English.

I've wandered all over the place, not met anyone that didn't speak English.

Lucky man ????

[simon43]

My ex #3 told me that she will give her small hotel in Phuket another 3 months and then pack up if things don't start to improve,

 

I built that hotel around 2012 for her and it's been a small but good little business, located only 300 metres from Phuket Airport. My ex works very hard and has good reviews.

 

But over the years, there has been increased competition from 'illegal' hotels, mostly run by Chinese nationals, who somehow get away with not having the correct hotel licence, and not paying the annual taxes due to the amphur.  The authorities seemingly turn a blind eye to these businesses who don't have the additional overheads of licences, taxes etc.

 

A few days ago, the local authorities visited her hotel and said that she needs to make a new hotel sign because the existing sign (in place for yonks) has the name of the hotel (Phuket ***** Hotel) written in Thai as the transliteration of the word 'hotel' (โฮเต็ล).  They want it written with the 'real' Thai word 'rongraam'.  Why??  

 

Next, they want her to install an additional 3 more CCTV cameras, even though she already has a 4-camera system for an 11-room hotel.  Extra cameras means buying a new CCTV system...

 

The illegal Chinese hotel 100 meters away has no CCTV and their sign uses the word โฮเต็ล.

 

'Why don't you tell them to do the same?', she raged at the official.  He just shrugged his shoulders and didn't reply.

 

Corruption in Phuket killed my own little hotel , and it will do the same for her... ????

Edited September 20, 2019 by simon43

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, simon43 said:

My ex #3 told me that she will give her small hotel in Phuket another 3 months and then pack up if things don't start to improve,

 

I built that hotel around 2012 for her and it's been a small but good little business, located only 300 metres from Phuket Airport. My ex works very hard and has good reviews.

 

But over the years, there has been increased competition from 'illegal' hotels, mostly run by Chinese nationals, who somehow get away with not having the correct hotel licence, and not paying the annual taxes due to the amphur.  The authorities seemingly turn a blind eye to these businesses who don't have the additional overheads of licences, taxes etc.

 

A few days ago, the local authorities visited her hotel and said that she needs to make a new hotel sign because the existing sign (in place for yonks) has the name of the hotel (Phuket ***** Hotel) written in Thai as the transliteration of the word 'hotel' (โฮเต็ล).  They want it written with the 'real' Thai word 'rongraam'.  Why??  

 

Next, they want her to install an additional 3 more CCTV cameras, even though she already has a 4-camera system for an 11-room hotel.  Extra cameras means buying a new CCTV system...

 

The illegal Chinese hotel 100 meters away has no CCTV and their sign uses the word โฮเต็ล.

 

'Why don't you tell them to do the same?', she raged at the official.  He just shrugged his shoulders and didn't reply.

 

Corruption in Phuket killed my own little hotel , and it will do the same for her... ????

Sympathies, but all that corruption was in existence long before 2012, so shouldn't you have thought twice about building her hotel?

I knew a Brit in Pattaya that had a nice restaurant, but he gave it away long ago because of the same sort of BS. His restaurant no longer even exists ( it was near Bamboo ).

I wonder if she had a hard time because they knew you are backing her financially.

[zydeco]

10 hours ago, garyk said:

I will be heading to the Philippines in a few months. A new adventure for me.

But, Mexico is my retirement destination now. Expensive but worth it IMHO.

12 years ago when I first went to Thailand it was pretty cool, now.  Pass

I have been traveling in Mexico for over two months now and there are a lot of Europeans here. Next time I talk to one I will ask them whey they chose Mexico over Asia. 

When I was young, I remember Americans talking about the Philippines in the 1930s, which they seemed to enjoy. As for Mexico, I like it and there are spots that are appealing for a retired expat. Some are even safe. But don't forget that, unlike Thailand, Mexico is rife with gangs that like to cut people's heads off after holding them for ransom. And if you don't like being dismissed as a farang in Thailand, you're going to really dislike being the gringo in Mexico. Europeans tend to get themselves in trouble in Mexico. It's not Spain with tropical vegetation. I've never needed hospitalization in Mexico, but I've read reports of people who did that were handcuffed to their bed until they paid their bill. Mexico can be a great place to live, but you need to know how to navigate it. And it's far harder to do so than Thailand. 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, ICELANDMAN said:

Lucky man ????

No, that's the average experience in the Philippines, you cannot have ever been there if you've never met anybody who does not speak English.

Again, I'm interested to know where in the Philippines you've actually visited. I've done Angeles City, Boracay, Bohol, Carmen, Cebu (Car Car, Cebu City, Macatan, Maolboal & Oslob), Coron, Davao City, Manila, Samal Island, Surigao City, Tagum City and a fair few other Islands on island hopping tours & nowhere have I had a problem with anybody speaking English or English menus... 

 

In fact in my > 30 visits, the only people I've met who couldn't speak English were my Ex-GFs parents who live in a small barangay (Kapalong) 2 hours drive north from Davao City & even they managed to learn enough English to be able to have a basic conversation with me (as I learnt enough Bisaya to exchange pleasantries with them... Oh & how to say "I'm full" (Busog - Sounds like Boo-Soh) so that her mum would stop trying to feed me. 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[ICELANDMAN]

25 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

No, that's the average experience in the Philippines, you cannot have ever been there if you've never met anybody who does not speak English.

Again, I'm interested to know where in the Philippines you've actually visited. I've done Angeles City, Boracay, Bohol, Carmen, Cebu (Car Car, Cebu City, Macatan, Maolboal & Oslob), Coron, Davao City, Manila, Samal Island, Surigao City, Tagum City and a fair few other Islands on island hopping tours & nowhere have I had a problem with anybody speaking English or English menus... 

 

In fact in my > 30 visits, the only people I've met who couldn't speak English were my Ex-GFs parents who live in a small barangay (Kapalong) 2 hours drive north from Davao City & even they managed to learn enough English to be able to have a basic conversation with me (as I learnt enough Bisaya to exchange pleasantries with them... Oh & how to say "I'm full" (Busog - Sounds like Boo-Soh) so that her mum would stop trying to feed me. 

 

 

Cebu and  Manilla but for me I had enough lost my money and time, I see not interesting country for tourists, and rather dangerous for business, political corruption very high with connection local mafia. Yes I agree if you go only tourists place and eat on the restaurant hotel you fond every one speaking very well English, maybe I not lucky, taxi scam all the time, my last expensive restaurant on Makati with not English menu I try lottery menu but I not eat only pay bill and my last day on airport Manilla a joke with not control baggage because equipment not work, fortunately a not see terrorist on the fly ????

Sure I have lucky problem with this country ????

 

[usviphotography]

An underappreciated aspect to all this is that Western European birthrates have been extremely low for some time now. That was bound to eventually affect total Western tourism numbers. All things being equal, less Europeans equals less European tourists. Now throw in the relative poverty of younger Westerners, the Pound being at an all time low, and the sanctions that have hit the Russian economy and that just compounds the problem. 

[Mike Teavee]

34 minutes ago, ICELANDMAN said:

Cebu and  Manilla but for me I had enough lost my money and time, I see not interesting country for tourists, and rather dangerous for business, political corruption very high with connection local mafia. Yes I agree if you go only tourists place and eat on the restaurant hotel you fond every one speaking very well English, maybe I not lucky, taxi scam all the time, my last expensive restaurant on Makati with not English menu I try lottery menu but I not eat only pay bill and my last day on airport Manilla a joke with not control baggage because equipment not work, fortunately a not see terrorist on the fly ????

Sure I have lucky problem with this country ????

 

Lol, the only time I had a problem with a menu in Cebu was when they gave me the Korean one by mistake ???? & I used to visit the Philippines with my ex-Filipina so we tended to go native (using Jeepneys, public ferries etc... ), Mindano is not exactly a tourist destination 

 

Taxi drivers in Manila can be a rip-off (especially from the airport) but the ones in Cebu I found to be very honest (Especially when your with a local, my previous ex-GF was Cebuano - what can I say, I have a thing for the girls from Visayas ???? )

 

Again, try Palawan, Coron in particular, you'll get a completely different view of the Philippines 

 

 

P.S. Though I defend the Philippines as I think it does get a hard time from people who have never really visited, it's blatantly obvious from the fact that I choose to Live  (1/3rd of my time) in Thailand & plan(ned) to retire there full time next year that I prefer Thailand.  In fact the reason I split up with my Ex was that I wanted us to move to Thailand (went got a Visa & rented a Condo) & she wanted to stay in Singapore, or go to UK or move back to the Philippines. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[trainman34014]

23 hours ago, tomartoh said:

The people running Thailand don't care about anything other than what goes in their own pockets.  Speed cameras , onerous immigration rules and whatever else can be thought up all bring money in to be dripped into.  What we think doesn't matter.  You can call us guests,  say it's their country but at the end of the day we are just total nonentities.  The future of tourism here is Quality Tourists ...  55555  ...  from .... ???

Last i heard it was the 'Rich Indians' that were going to save the day but now i hear they have switched their attention to wooing the Eskimo Populations !

[cerox]

I will check out the Philippines and perhaps Vietnam in one month. Just sold my bike and soon leave Thailand.

 

I am not bothered to do a TM30, yes it is not perfect but not a reason to leave.

 

The exchange rate EUR/THB which is now almost at 32, and I used to get 40-45, is also a reason. But not enough to leave.

 

Maybe, when they started to refuse easy visas to me and many other young people, maybe maybe, that is a reason why we do not all think Thailand is that great to right away pay you off with 1 Million THB and hope it is going well for 20 years.

 

I only spend around 60k THB monthly here. I get it that I am undesired here.

[ICELANDMAN]

56 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Lol, the only time I had a problem with a menu in Cebu was when they gave me the Korean one by mistake ???? & I used to visit the Philippines with my ex-Filipina so we tended to go native (using Jeepneys, public ferries etc... ), Mindano is not exactly a tourist destination 

 

Taxi drivers in Manila can be a rip-off (especially from the airport) but the ones in Cebu I found to be very honest (Especially when your with a local, my previous ex-GF was Cebuano - what can I say, I have a thing for the girls from Visayas ???? )

 

Again, try Palawan, Coron in particular, you'll get a completely different view of the Philippines 

 

 

P.S. Though I defend the Philippines as I think it does get a hard time from people who have never really visited, it's blatantly obvious from the fact that I choose to Live  (1/3rd of my time) in Thailand & plan(ned) to retire there full time next year that I prefer Thailand.  In fact the reason I split up with my Ex was that I wanted us to move to Thailand (went got a Visa & rented a Condo) & she wanted to stay in Singapore, or go to UK or move back to the Philippines. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the information on Philippines but with my Thai girlfriend does not speak Tagalog ????

I agree with you that with a Filipino it is much easier to travel in the country, but alone it is not easy and I do not recommend it.

The Philippines I found for it is a strange country with the mixture of the fanatical Catholic and Asian mentality, unlike other Asian countries.

Thank you for sharing your experience

 

 

[DepDavid]

I have read most of the TM30 threads on TV, albeit I admit not completely but so far I haven't seen anyone claiming that they are going to stay at home and give up domestic travel and visits  due to the current TM30 tomfoolery.

There are many!

Sent from my SM-A205F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[garyk]

10 hours ago, zydeco said:

When I was young, I remember Americans talking about the Philippines in the 1930s, which they seemed to enjoy. As for Mexico, I like it and there are spots that are appealing for a retired expat. Some are even safe. But don't forget that, unlike Thailand, Mexico is rife with gangs that like to cut people's heads off after holding them for ransom. And if you don't like being dismissed as a farang in Thailand, you're going to really dislike being the gringo in Mexico. Europeans tend to get themselves in trouble in Mexico. It's not Spain with tropical vegetation. I've never needed hospitalization in Mexico, but I've read reports of people who did that were handcuffed to their bed until they paid their bill. Mexico can be a great place to live, but you need to know how to navigate it. And it's far harder to do so than Thailand. 

You must be European?  I live in Texas and grew up on the border.

Yea the gangs are killing other gangs and it is not very safe in places. Same can be said for Thailand.

Stop watching the 10:00 news.  haha