U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Erm, where is your evidence that these victims of a US attack were anything to do with the Taliban, or are you going off topic to bang on about the Taliban? 

 

These innocent victims are Afghans in Afghanistan so trigger your set piece  Taliban, ‘stoning’, ‘beheading’ 

 

You're totally and completely misreading my posts...beyond comprehension.

 

I never said anything about who the victims of this drone strike were or what they did or didn't believe.

 

I did say the REASON for the U.S. to be in Afghanistan ostensibly is to fight the Taliban and terrorists/terrorist sympathizers.  Clearly, the U.S.'s efforts in that direction are not helped when errant drone strikes intended to go after Taliban or IS targets instead and by mistake kill presumably innocent civilians.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You're totally and completely misreading my posts...beyond comprehension.

 

I never said anything about who the victims of this drone strike were or what they did or didn't believe.

 

I did say the REASON for the U.S. to be in Afghanistan ostensibly is to fight the Taliban and terrorists/terrorist sympathizers.  Clearly, the U.S.'s efforts in that direction are not helped when errant drone strikes kill presumably innocent civilians.

 

‘Errant Drone Strikes’?!

[thaiguzzi]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You're totally and completely misreading my posts...beyond comprehension.

 

I never said anything about who the victims of this drone strike were or what they did or didn't believe.

 

I did say the REASON for the U.S. to be in Afghanistan ostensibly is to fight the Taliban and terrorists/terrorist sympathizers.  Clearly, the U.S.'s efforts in that direction are not helped when errant drone strikes kill presumably innocent civilians.

 

Rubbish.

That reason to fight the "war on terror" diminished years ago.

It is a very poor excuse.

It is why the USA has trouble convincing other, intelligent Western democracies to get involved.

There is only one reason they are there.

Just like everywhere else.

Money for the arms & war industry monster.

It needs feeding. Constantly.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Errant Drone Strikes’?!

 

They were aiming for an IS compound, and hit pine nut workers instead.

 

I'd call that errant.

 

 

Quote

 

JALALABAD, Afghanistan (Reuters) - A U.S. drone strike intended to hit an Islamic State (IS) hideout in Afghanistan killed at least 30 civilians resting after a day's labour in the fields, officials said on Thursday.

 

 

[Scott]

A racist post has been reported and removed. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

That reason to fight the "war on terror" diminished years ago.

It is a very poor excuse.

It is why the USA has trouble convincing other, intelligent Western democracies to get involved.

There is only one reason they are there.

Just like everywhere else.

Money for the arms & war industry monster.

It needs feeding. Constantly.

 

There's an argument to be made for the motivation you cite above.

 

But it's equally true, that no one posting on this forum with any brain should be advocating a return to Taliban rule in Afghanistan. The world saw what that was like the last time when the Taliban ran the show there. And unfortunately, the Afghan govt. on its own seems, without U.S. military support, unable to protect its own people and country.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's an argument to be made for the motivation you cite above.

 

But it's equally true, that no one posting on this forum with any brain should be advocating a return to Taliban rule in Afghanistan. The world saw what that was like the last time when the Taliban ran the show there. And unfortunately, the Afghan govt. on its own seems unable to protect its own people and country.

 

I’ll make you a prediction.

 

The US will leave Afghanistan and the Taliban shall remain in Afghanistan as a powerful military and politically active group.

 

With or without being treated to high tea and chummy chats at Camp David.

[ballpoint]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

They were aiming for an IS compound, and hit pine nut workers instead.

 

I'd call that errant.

Except we're not talking about a missile that was fired in the general direction of an ISIS compound and accidently hit these people instead.  We're talking about a remotely piloted drone that was flown in by a controller who spotted this group and consciously made the decision to open fire on them.  You call it errant.  I call it willful.  A mistake, yes, but still a wilful one.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's an argument to be made for the motivation you cite above.

 

But it's equally true, that no one posting on this forum with any brain should be advocating a return to Taliban rule in Afghanistan. The world saw what that was like the last time when the Taliban ran the show there. And unfortunately, the Afghan govt. on its own seems unable to protect its own people and country.

 

True, but someone may argue that Talibans were not nearly as powerful until the US armed them to fight the Russians.

True also that Afghanistan has always been, historically, at war, i mean tribal wars, but, overall, Americans have not done a great job there.

[Sujo]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Would you have felt better if they instead had been killed in the more traditional Afghan way of being stoned to death or beheaded with a sword?  

 

It's not the instrument used that makes it "evil." It's the circumstances and nature of the killing, including whether it was deliberate or an unintended mistake.

 

Maybe identify them as the baddies before killing them would be a nice start.

[Rimmer]

A troll post and two quoted replies have been removed

[thaiguzzi]

10 hours ago, The Theory said:

I heard that pine nuts farms are very common in Afghanistan, is that right ?

But im not sure what it looks like. Are they some ? 

Where else you gonna get your smack from?

And medical morphine.

NW Thailand???

5555

[Skallywag]

On 9/20/2019 at 8:49 AM, webfact said:

The United Nations says nearly 4,000 civilians were killed or wounded in the first half of the year. That included a big increase in casualties inflicted by government and U.S.-led foreign forces.

 

On 9/20/2019 at 8:49 AM, webfact said:

 

About 14,000 U.S. troops are in Afghanistan, training and advising Afghan security forces and conducting counter-insurgency operations against IS and the Taliban movement.

So which is it?  Are we only training and advising the Afghan forces or are we leading their forces? 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Except we're not talking about a missile that was fired in the general direction of an ISIS compound and accidently hit these people instead.  We're talking about a remotely piloted drone that was flown in by a controller who spotted this group and consciously made the decision to open fire on them.  You call it errant.  I call it willful.  A mistake, yes, but still a wilful one.

 

You don't know what the drone controller spotted and how the strike was targeted. And in the absence of that knowledge, have no basis to call it a "willful" killing of civilians.

 

It's not just look from the sky and shoot. There's often ground-based intelligence and spotting that identifies and targets locations. The bad guys are in a location at one point, and then they move and civilians come into the same location. Things like that do happen, and I'm just talking in general terms.

 

The specifics of exactly how and why it occurred here, I don't know. And neither do you.

 

But I'll say it again because it bears repeating -- there's no sane argument to be made for how/why it would be to the U.S. military's advantage or benefit to kill innocent Afghan civilians. When things like this happen, it's only a negative for the U.S. and its presence in Afghanistan. So how anyone can contend they intentionally targeted innocent civilians is beyond me.

[thaiguzzi]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's an argument to be made for the motivation you cite above.

 

But it's equally true, that no one posting on this forum with any brain should be advocating a return to Taliban rule in Afghanistan. The world saw what that was like the last time when the Taliban ran the show there. And unfortunately, the Afghan govt. on its own seems, without U.S. military support, unable to protect its own people and country.

 

Why?

Why not let the Taliban rule?

They want to send their country back to the stone age and have weird religeous rules, who are we (or the US government) to say you can't and its wrong.

We saw how well interfering in Iraq and Libya went.

Let 'em get on with it.

It's their country.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

True, but someone may argue that Talibans were not nearly as powerful until the US armed them to fight the Russians.

True also that Afghanistan has always been, historically, at war, i mean tribal wars, but, overall, Americans have not done a great job there.

 

No argument from me on those issues... The U.S. has its fingerprints on the rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan. That was then. This is now, post 9/11 and Osama Bin Laden. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Why?

Why not let the Taliban rule?

 

 

Perhaps you should ask some Afghan woman and children to explain it to you...

 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No argument from me on those issues... The U.S. has its fingerprints on the rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan. That was then. This is now, post 9/11 and Osama Bin Laden. 

Well, i just wish the Americans could take a holiday, say 3 years, from meddling in world politics, so at least we could have a clear opinion of who is responsible and for what, if you get my drift.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i just wish the Americans could take a holiday, say 3 years, from meddling in world politics, so at least we could have a clear opinion of who is responsible and for what, if you get my drift.

 

So you mean, leave it to Russian, China, North Korea, IS, etc. to run amok and unchecked in the world for 3 years.... and then mull over at that point whether that was a good idea or not?  Really???

 

Does the world need a three-year stand-down period in order to understand what the Taliban is, how they operate, and what they'd do in Afghanistan if left to their own whims?  Been there before and seen it already. No thanks.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Perhaps you should ask some Afghan woman and children to explain it to you...

 

Let’s dispense with a myth.

 

The US forces are not in Afghanistan to protect women and children from the Taliban.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s dispense with a myth.

 

The US forces are not in Afghanistan to protect women and children from the Taliban.

 

That, and to prevent Afghanistan from returning to once again become a staging and training ground for Muslim terrorists...

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So you mean, leave it to Russian, China, North Korea, IS, etc. to run amok and unchecked in the world for 3 years.... and then mull over at that point whether that was a good idea or not?  Really???

You seem oblivious to what Russia, China and North Korea have been up to while the US has been distracting itself with its ‘war on terror’.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So you mean, leave it to Russian, China, North Korea, IS, etc. to run amok and unchecked in the world for 3 years.... and then mull over at that point whether that was a good idea or not?  Really???

No, of course i don't think that, and you are right, it would not be a great idea.

But recently US cancelled a nuclear treaty with you know whom, and one may get the impression that the US is not really cooperating much with other nations to achieve some durable peace.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You seem oblivious to what Russia, China and North Korea have been up to while the US has been distracting itself with its ‘war on terror’.

 

Not oblivious at all. Perfectly cognizant. Which is why I found Mau's suggestion above so absurd.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

No, of course i don't think that, and you are right, it would not be a great idea.

But recently US cancelled a nuclear treaty with you know whom, and one may get the impression that the US is not really cooperating much with other nations to achieve some durable peace.

 

I'm the last person on TVF to in any way be defending the actions of the current U.S. President and administration.

 

[thaiguzzi]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Perhaps you should ask some Afghan woman and children to explain it to you...

 

So what you are saying, is best let an American Special Forces grunt on the ground explain it to me....,

rather than an Afghan in Afghanistan.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, thaiguzzi said:

So what you are saying, is best let an American Special Forces grunt on the ground explain it to me....,

rather an an Afghan in Afghanistan.

 

No, I said let Afghan women and children explain why Taliban rule would not be good for Afghanistan.

 

How/why you're bringing U.S. Special Forces into my comment above, I have no idea!

 

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Perhaps you should ask some Afghan woman and children to explain it to you...

 

I take it you are  it referring to the widows and children of the innocent men killed by this US attack?

[mercman24]

US intelligence, ? what a kin joke, like the weapons of mass destruction, ? that never existed, which was an absolute lie, look at IRAQ now, just a war zone. never use to be, thanks to the US and UK (and others), all the drone videos i see, you can clearly see the *bandits* as they call them carrying AK47,s so where is the video they like to show off,  how many families are devastated now as the breadwinner is dead of injured, because some <deleted> with a joystick playing video games with innocents lives.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's worth noting, lest it be lost in all the rhetoric here, that much of the planning by Al-Qaeda for the 9/11 terrorist attacks occurred in Afghanistan which Osama Bin Laden had used as his base of operations during many of those years.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_of_the_September_11_attacks#Origins_of_the_September_11_attacks

 

And as best as I can tell, the very first notion for the 9/11 attacks began in Afghanistan in 1996 , which was when the Taliban effectively controlled much of the country. And continued up until the Sept. 2011 9/11 attacks and the resulting U.S. invasion of Afghanistan late in 2001 that ended the Taliban's rule.

 

Quote

The Taliban have been condemned internationally for the harsh enforcement of their interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, which has resulted in the brutal treatment of many Afghans, especially women.[57][58] During their rule from 1996 to 2001, the Taliban and their allies committed massacres against Afghan civilians, denied UN food supplies to 160,000 starving civilians and conducted a policy of scorched earth, burning vast areas of fertile land and destroying tens of thousands of homes.[59][60][61][62][63][64] According to the United Nations, the Taliban and their allies were responsible for 76% of Afghan civilian casualties in 2010, 80% in 2011, and 80% in 2012.[65][66][67][68][69][70] Taliban has also engaged in cultural genocide, destroying numerous monuments including the famous 1500-year old Buddhas of Bamiyan.[71][72][73][74]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

 

That's what the U.S. military presence in Afghanistan is about, for better or worse.