SURVEY: How serious is the plastic problem?

[Scott]

There have been several reports of the accumulation of plastic in the ocean and of microplastics in fish.   There have also been problems with plastic trash on beaches.   In your opinion how serious is the problem of plastic pollution and what should be done?

 

Please feel free to leave a comment.

 

Further reading:  

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1122357-old-habits-die-hard-stores-try-to-cut-down-on-plastic-bags-but-shoppers-remain-stubborn/?tab=comments#comment-14548530

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1122983-concerns-rise-over-microplastics-in-stomachs-of-mackerel/?tab=comments#comment-14560606

 

 

[kingstonkid]

There is a problem BUT the present system of outlawing plastic bags is NO GOING TO WORK.

 

Here is the problem.  

 

Somchai and Mrs Somchai go to TOPS and get their weekly groceries.  TOPS says sorry no more plastic bags you have to buy our shopping bags or we can put your stuff in many small boxes.

 

The Somchais have heard how bad plastic is and pay the extra money for the carry bag.

 

Life is good they are helping the community 

 

BUT WAIT.

 

Somchai and Mrs Somchai are very cleanliness minded.  After supper and before bed they take out the garbage and put it in the garbage bin.  OH OH! they have a problem they do not have any garbage bags to put the garbage in they used to use the TOPS bags.

 

Mr Somchai says have no fear he will go to TOPS and surely they have bags that he can use.  He searches and asks the clerks what there is and they show him the garbage bags that they have but wait these are plastic.

 

The moral of this story for those that have not had enough bubbly is that before they outlaw the plastic bags stores better come up with something akin to a paper bag.

They also better come up with a cheap replacement for garbage bags and have them non plastic.

 

If people want to stop plastic it is much easier to get rid of all the plastic bottles than it is to get rid of the plastic bags. 

 

Simply go OLD 1950 and go returnable glass bottles that companies can wash and recycle easily.

 

It is alo a great way for schools and such to raise money.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chazar]

Lets be clear PLASTIC aint a problem, its the people using it wrongly who are, plastic has transformed everyones  lives for the better.

[korkenzieher]

Once upon a time, BigStore used to give me a useful disposal bag when I left the store, with all my purchases in it. It was small, convenient and I, being the responsible type could put all my waste in the bin simply and conveniently by filling it up. Now the store refuses to give me that disposal bag - or worse, tries to charge me for it. But now, I have less need to be responsible - most of my waste I can just pitch by the road, because there's no plastic bag for people to worry about - win-win, I think!

 

Seriously, did you realise that in the Republic of Ireland, when plastic bags were first outlawed (the first significant country to do so) supermarkets shipped over 100,000 tons more plastic in the next year because people now had to buy disposal bags. More plastic was produced and had to be disposed of. So what the tree-huggers did, was create a situation where the supermarkets got to look virtuous and turn a cost into a profit centre. I mean, why not give paper bags, like they used to do in most of the US? Simple reasons really - cost and optics.

 

So, Chazar is quite right IMO. It is about the disposal of the bags - not the issuance of them. Sure, fewer bags issued means less plastic in the environment - but when you have to buy waste bags, is that really happening? Or is it yet another case of 'out of sight, out of mind'. Disposal bags are also generally larger, resulting in a reduction of fill efficiency. Making change, well, maybe it's good and maybe not - but without giving the general public an alternative then it is meaningless, because lowest common denominator effects come into play. It is no different with green taxes on energy.

Edited September 30, 2019 by korkenzieher

[Laza 45]

On a scale of 1 to 10 it about 25...  absolutely everything we buy is  made from plastic & packaged in plastic.. virtually all the food we buy is packaged in plastic.. every single molecule of plastic that has ever been manufactured still exists as a molecule of plastic in one form or another.  The soil is contaminated with plastic residue.. the rivers, lakes and oceans are polluted with plastic.  The air we breathe is polluted with plastic from burning.. The fish we eat are consuming plastic particles.. as are the animals we eat.. We consume microplastics from drink containers and residue from packaging.. And.. no one knows what effect this is having on us.  Plastic bags and straws are a tiny drop in a very large ocean of plastic.. 

 

A study done in Adelaide, Australia years ago concluded that if you want clean beaches you have to prevent plastic from getting into the ocean in the first place.  Cleaning beaches is a bandaid.. Trash racks were installed on all streams entering the sea .. deposits on containers were introduced and kerb recycling was established and now Adelaide's beaches are relatively clean.. but.. that doesn't solve the problem of microplastics..  

 

Solving the problem of plastic pollution is going to take a lot of research and education.. With people's attitudes the way they are I find it hard to be optimistic..

[Chazar]

15 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

On a scale of 1 to 10 it about 25...  absolutely everything we buy is  made from plastic & packaged in plastic.. virtually all the food we buy is packaged in plastic.. every single molecule of plastic that has ever been manufactured still exists as a molecule of plastic in one form or another.  The soil is contaminated with plastic residue.. the rivers, lakes and oceans are polluted with plastic.  The air we breathe is polluted with plastic from burning.. The fish we eat are consuming plastic particles.. as are the animals we eat.. We consume microplastics from drink containers and residue from packaging.. And.. no one knows what effect this is having on us.  Plastic bags and straws are a tiny drop in a very large ocean of plastic.. 

 

A study done in Adelaide, Australia years ago concluded that if you want clean beaches you have to prevent plastic from getting into the ocean in the first place.  Cleaning beaches is a bandaid.. Trash racks were installed on all streams entering the sea .. deposits on containers were introduced and kerb recycling was established and now Adelaide's beaches are relatively clean.. but.. that doesn't solve the problem of microplastics..  

 

Solving the problem of plastic pollution is going to take a lot of research and education.. With people's attitudes the way they are I find it hard to be optimistic..

and  most of "those  people"  would already be  dead without that  life saving that plastic  afforded them to live a  longer  life

[mauGR1]

It's extremely serious, it should be tackled asap.

[mok199]

Street vendor plastic and foam is out of control and thais will never ever change their eating habits

[theonetrueaussie]

of course plastic in the water is serious...where does 90% of the plastic in the water come from....5 rivers...none of them here!! I love when people say we should change back to reusable glass bottles...yeah so instead of plastic everywhere there will be broken glass everywhere instead!! The world does not have a plastic problem...It has a inconsiderate human problem. banning bags from stores will just mean people chuck out a big garbage bag with a few items every night instead of a small bag they got from the store....Stop saying ban plastic and come up with a reasonable alternative that won't make the situation worse!!

[GalaxyMan]

More than 30 years ago I learned about PCBs (Polychlorinated Biphenyls) in plastics, how they can leach out into whatever they are containing or in contact with. It's worse if the materials are heated in any way, but the same thing happens in the freezer. The horror of what PCBs do to people is nightmarish; anemia; acne-like skin conditions; and liver, stomach, and thyroid gland injuries. Other effects of PCBs include changes in the immune system, behavioral alterations, and impaired reproduction. Melanoma and brain cancer, non-Hodgkin lymphoma and rectal, liver, biliary tract, and gallbladder cancer. The worst, IMHO, is that it is thought to cause multiple sclerosis.

 

Needless to say, plastics are not a part of my kitchen and I avoid them whenever practical and have ever since learning about how evil they are. Plastic wrap...god!

[Dumbastheycome]

26 minutes ago, korkenzieher said:

Once upon a time, BigStore used to give me a useful disposal bag when I left the store, with all my purchases in it. It was small, convenient and I, being the responsible type could put all my waste in the bin simply and conveniently by filling it up. Now the store refuses to give me that disposal bag - or worse, tries to charge me for it. But now, I have less need to be responsible - most of my waste I can just pitch by the road, because there's no plastic bag for people to worry about - win-win, I think!

 

Seriously, did you realise that in the Republic of Ireland, when plastic bags were first outlawed (the first significant country to do so) supermarkets shipped over 100,000 tons more plastic in the next year because people now had to buy disposal bags. More plastic was produced and had to be disposed of. So what the tree-huggers did, was create a situation where the supermarkets got to look virtuous and turn a cost into a profit centre. I mean, why not give paper bags, like they used to do in most of the US? Simple reasons really - cost and optics.

 

So, Chazar is quite right IMO. It is about the disposal of the bags - not the issuance of them. Sure, fewer bags issued means less plastic in the environment - but when you have to buy waste bags, is that really happening? Or is it yet another case of 'out of sight, out of mind'. Disposal bags are also generally larger, resulting in a reduction of fill efficiency. Making change, well, maybe it's good and maybe not - but without giving the general public an alternative then it is meaningless, because lowest common denominator effects come into play. It is no different with green taxes on energy.

I find a  lot of what you say rather contradictory. The over prolific issuance of single use  shopping bags is the  cause for problems with method of  disposal surely? A population deprived of free plastic bags  by supermarkets gave rise to a overall increase in production because people then had to buy them?

If that was specifically for rubbish collection those would be subject to  efficient collection and containment rather than the careless disposal into the  general environment which is the basis of the problem. That is not denying that even filled rubbish bags are too frequently dumped but not so carelessly  as many plastic film items.

The  general public has always the alternative which is to return to methods of carrying items before the  advent of "convenient"waste. Unfortunately supermarkets created this dependence on convenience.

Paper bags are not the answer because the production of paper is also an environmental source of pollution in it's production and toxicity in environmental deposit.

It is a sad  fact that in Thailand and many parts of Asia there is little perception of "pollution" in the  general mindset. And unfortunately little effort to apply existing legislation.

But depriving people of the convenience of letting plastic bags etc simply drift away in the wind just might help.

[worrab]

Tesco Lotus sell bio-degradable plastic rubbish bags of all sizes. Been using them for ages.

[Chazar]

43 minutes ago, Chazar said:

and  most of "those  people"  would already be  dead without that  life saving that plastic  afforded them to live a  longer  life

Try making an artificial heart with glass or paper and let me know when your  on the surgeons bed???? Trans

Edited September 30, 2019 by Chazar

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Chazar said:

Try making an artificial heart with glass or paper and let me know when your  on the surgeons bed???? Trans

I have plastic lenses "in" my eyes..????

Edited September 30, 2019 by transam

[HHTel]

32 countries have a blanket ban on single use plastic with 127 countries that have restrictions in place.

 

Rwanda has had a severe ban since around 2004.  The older generation admit that it was difficult to change but they were forced to adapt.  The younger generation have no problem whatsoever as they've grown up without plastic.

We don't need it so ban it.

[Laza 45]

1 hour ago, Chazar said:

and  most of "those  people"  would already be  dead without that  life saving that plastic  afforded them to live a  longer  life

..I expect it is a bit pointless to reply to your comment but I will try.. first of all I did not say anything to deny the usefulness of plastics..  I would not be sitting here at my computer or carrying a smartphone if it were not for sophisticated plastics.. 

What I would say is that if we want the world to be habitable for many generations to come we have to change our mentality to consumption and waste disposal.  The age of mindless consumption and trashing the old model is clearly creating a massive environmental problem..  Like the 7 million people who marched in Greta Thunberg's climate strike last Friday I believe that we need to consult the best minds and scientists to help create a sustainable model for the use and recycling of the the planet's resources.  It does not mean a return to a pre-industrial world...

[khunPer]

It is a serious problem and we need to drastically clean up the oceans, and teach people how to dispose of plastic in a correct way, and punish folks that still dispose of plastic wrong places (i.e. the Singapore model that worked well).

[CygnusX1]

I’ve just returned from a beach holiday in Croatia and Montenegro. You have to buy bags at Croatian supermarkets, but Montenegro still supplies as many free bags as you need. Didn’t see a single plastic bag in the ocean in either country. I assume this is because the garbage disposal authorities dispose of all waste responsibly instead of letting it wash into the sea.

[Airalee]

I believe that the lack of replies to this could possibly point to the fact that people are getting burned out on having these issues (real or not) shoved down their throat on a daily basis.  Ultimately, it might reach a tipping point where people just say “forget it...I just don’t care anymore”.

[Russell17au]

Yes there is a serious problem about the plastics. There are several different types of plastic to start with, Some can be recycled like PET which is what the plastic drink bottles are made from but some plastics cannot be recycled and they will breakdown over a short period of time and disappear into the earth with no problems (the black garbage bags) whilst there is another type of plastic which will not breakdown for a long time and that is the plastic used to make the shopping bags. It does not matter what plastic it is the biggest problem is the human beings, they just do not care enough. All you have to do is drive around and see how much garbage is just dumped on the side of the roads and then some clown comes along and puts a match to it and causes more air pollution and the garbage that is thrown near canals, creeks and rivers get washed out to sea when the first rain comes. There are several ways to fix this problem and that is to have a decent garbage collection system, plus to educate the worlds population not to just dump their rubbish on the side of the road or in any waterway. The governments of the world need to get together and work on a system that can safely dispose of the plastic waste, at the moment the are 100 shipping containers of plastic waste in Cambodia to be shipped back to Australia where it came from.

[farmerjo]

Everything we use in the world comes at a price.

 

[Kinnock]

It's an issue of aesthetics.  Middle class people don't like to see plastic litter on their nice beaches.  It has nothing to do with real environmental risks to the planet.

 

Businesses and politicians are keen to feed the public focus on plastic with promises of bans illustrated by images of a turtle with a drinking straw up its nose - as it takes the focus off oil and deforestation.

 

Yes, less litter in the sea would be nice.  Will it cause disterous climate change, habitat loss or ill health.  Hell no.

 

The micro plastic issue is an unproven risk raised by campaign groups trying to legitimise the panic about plastic bags.

 

India was the first to ban plastic bags in major cities years ago - but this was due to blocked storm drains causing local flooding.  Subsequent bans on 'environmental' grounds are just greenwash.   

 

Driving to a supermarket in a 4x4 truck, then refusing a plastic bag to save the planet is a sick joke.

[hugocnx]

6 hours ago, Chazar said:

Lets be clear PLASTIC aint a problem, its the people using it wrongly who are, plastic has transformed everyones  lives for the better.

You are right there. It's the way people dispose of their waste. Ocean liners dump their trash in open sea and for the locals, the klong devours everything. Sadly it seems impossible to fight this wasting away and so everyone is gonna be fukked up with stupid measures. I don't have the right answer (yet) and someone tell me how you can really get rid of plastic waist. Still many countries don't give a damn. Hopefully the plastic industry comes up with new products. They ought to as else biss will go down. Some surrogates are already available like 'vegan' packings. but to this moment they are to expensive for common Thai. 

There is soy enough to produce these kind of packings. 

Providing public bins is a no no in Thailand. Government knows that because as soon as there is a public bin somewhere, the next day this area is piled up with....you know what I mean. Not Thai bashing, but it is the way it goes. 

 

Edit: Didn't vote as there was no option for me there.

Edited September 30, 2019 by hugocnx

[hugocnx]

4 hours ago, worrab said:

Tesco Lotus sell bio-degradable plastic rubbish bags of all sizes. Been using them for ages.

I beg to not believe those bags are really bio-degradable as one of our posters used to point out many times.

Many such bags may brake down to smaller particles but still stay plastic. Stupid in fact as they cannot be re-used ?!

[mickey rat]

Awareness through education is the only way you will ever get them to stop littering. It's not only the plastic bags but also everything that's inside the plastic bags. Taking away their plastic bags will not stop them from trashing their own country. 

[xtrnuno41]

IF you dump 8000000 tons (imagine the volume !) of plastic in the oceans EVERY YEAR, then you have a problem, eventually. Now there are islands as big as the the state Texas.

I believe there are 5 of them, as with streams it concentrates at several points.

Birds, fish eat it and die. Fish caught, for humans to eat, have micro plastic in their body, so we top predators also will have plastic in our body. SO we will die too.

 

Doesnt matter that much , we do have more then enough people on this earth.

In the past we had dictators who sometimes started war, people were killed. saved a lot of people nowadays, otherwise we would already have been on 10 billion people.

Now we have hidden dictators, mostly rich people, they dont dont give a<deleted> about felow humans, only money for them, and every one else can die on plastic on toxic air or what ever. Those "humans" dump 8000000 tons of plastic, they get rich and dont care at all. It must be, as  8000000 tons of plastic is not peanuts.

THey are screaming for CO2 outlet, killing the world, but nothing is real said about plastics. In my stupid country, they stop with producing food (meat, cows, pigs, chicken produce harmful gas outlets) as the big companies need to run. Only rich people can do what ever they like, as they dont notice it in their wallet, but the common man does ! SO all dictators (governments, rich people) just say to you common people: DIE !

[Chazar]

6 hours ago, transam said:

I have plastic lenses "in" my eyes..????

better than mud  then????

[Chazar]

3 hours ago, Kinnock said:

by images of a turtle with a drinking straw up its nose

Cocaine addiction amongst turtles explains that easily

[Chazar]

6 hours ago, Laza 45 said:

It does not mean a return to a pre-industrial world...

thats probably what it does mean though especially once you rope in the rampant tourism worldwide, aviation doesnt run on batteries ( yes I know there some very limited  battery planes)

[worgeordie]

Most plastic does not degrade, the larger bags,pieces of plastic are killing

the Marine mammals,turtles,who eat it thinking its squid or jellyfish,and

they are dying in greater numbers.

 

Plastic in the Oceans ends up as microplastics,which gets into the food

chain,as small fish eat it thinking its plankton,which are in turn eaten by

larger fish,that end up on the table.

 

So we have really <deleted> up this planet,and now are talking more about

going to the Moon,and Mars, so we can <deleted> them up too.

regards Worgeordie