While Trump rages, McConnell says he would have to hold Senate impeachment trial

[mtls2005]

52 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

"...and I will huff and puff and blow the White House down

 

He seems to be able to sniff powerfully.

 

Suspect he'd stroke out if he tried to blow anything down.

[jcsmith]

2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Not funny, and 100% wrong. The last 3 years with the so-called "right" in power has led to record number of minorities in employment, new records again and again on stock markets, the southern border wall under construction and so many other incredible achievements. Trump supporters and people that love the USA are incredibly happy, proud and positive. Yet those that supported the loser in the last election, still just can't accept their defeat, and have resorted to negativity the likes never seen before. You might want to rethink exactly who the "negative" people are.

Even per Fox news, there is exactly zero miles of new border wall construction. What has been constructed was stuff that was already slated to be done under Obama, reparations and maintenance. You should probably take a look at the employment numbers and trends because they are just continuing what they were doing under Obama. You won't be able to tell where one stopped and the other started. Economy wise it's gone the way it typically does under a republican president. Cut taxes on the rich, deregulate, see short term gains, followed by a recession before the end of office. 

 

The second part of your comments is pretty naive. People who love the country? So you're equating people who don't support your views don't love the country? Or the common Fox news driven can't accept the results of the election... A blanket excuse to try to excuse any crazy act Trump does and pretend that it's normal.

[Chomper Higgot]

Trump now faces three distinct battles, each with its own severe consequences for him, for those close to him and for the nation.

 

The impeachment, a political process at the heart of which is protecting the  Constitution and the agencies of state from Trump’s attacks.

 

The criminal prosecutions, both Federal and State, that will follow when he leaves office.

 

The exposure of who and what Trump is.

 

This later will be the most painful for his narcissistic personality to handle, brace yourselves for an almighty ‘extinction burst’ that will involve Trump turning on the very people who enabled his crimes. 

[Laza 45]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Yes, but...

 

This may make them look complicit and guilty, which could back-fire.

 

The senate majority leader is a survivor, he'll toss the president over the side if/when it looks really bad.

 

 

Yes.. that is the alternative.. it seems from what I've read a lot of influential Republicans are fed up with his antics.. now could be a good time to take the pain and dump him and have time to install an alternative for the 2020 election.. The question arises.. who would replace him.. Pence seems the obvious answer.. but he is implicated in the scandal as well.. he could be a liability.. if he survives..  Where to from there? 

 

[Becker]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I find the two posts above (@EVENKEEL and @Kelsall) to be fascinating, instructive and horrifying.

 

That's what you get when you're a 5th Ave Trump supporter dreaming the MAWA pipe dream.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Becker

[PatOngo]

…and I thought Bush, Rove, Rice and Rumsfeld were sleazes! These guys are equally as sleazy, if not more so!

[neeray]

He will "go down" as one of the most inFAMOUS presidents in history.

We all know that he likes the spotlight but this is probably not the glow that he had in mind.

 

[riclag]

I'm all for a public forum, bring it on. Once all the facts are debated my country will still have the current POTUS that comes up for re election in Nov 2020.   For all of you haters out there that think the GOP senate will clear Mr. Trump, your wrong! Ultimately, It will be the American people again,using  the current democratic voting system ,that decides! 

Edited October 1, 2019 by riclag

[Becker]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

I'm all for a public forum, bring it on. Once all the facts are debated my country will still have the current POTUS that comes up for re election in Nov 2020.  

"I'm all for a public forum, bring it on."

Well, if you were against public forums you wouldn't participate, would you.

 

"Once all the facts are debated my country will still have the current POTUS that comes up for re election in Nov 2020."

It's not the facts that will decide the fate of Trump but the ability of the GOP senators to continuously getting shafted by him for the sake of reelection.

Let's see if they have any kind of breaking point. 

[Jingthing]

I am glad to hear that the senate leader says he will need to hold a trial WHEN "trump" is impeached. I say when not if because it's already obvious from what we already know that the house will impeach the current occupier of the white house. Apparently the constitution is not fully clear on mandating that a senate trial actually has to happen in that case but I think it's obvious that they intended for there to be senate trials. Of course he could also backtrack later. I think when impeached by the house if the senate did actually refuse to hold any trial it would shut the country down. People worry about the wrath of the "trump" fans and that concern is founded as his base is cult like and well armed but in my view the senate refusing to hold such a trial would instigate a very justified extreme response by the majority of Americans that are NOT in his minority base. Not violent of course but probably the biggest mass protests in American history. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Jingthing

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Not funny, and 100% wrong. The last 3 years with the so-called "right" in power has led to record

....corruption and obstruction of justice - just to balance the scales of history.

[Srikcir]

If POTUS Trump is impeached by the Senate, will Nancy Pelosi become the next POTUS?

The little amount of revelations regarding Trump's call to Ukraine and other world leaders reveals that Pence has been in attendance among the dozens or so other government officials and staffers. As such he might be complicit as a co-conspirator to any cover-up of Trump's conversations and might be further proven as a participant in establishing and maintaining the secrecy of those calls in the special government server reserved for sensitive intelligence matters that violates U.S. laws.

Thus, Pence too might become the subject of an impeachment investigation and trial! That could clear the path for House Speaker Peloisi to become the first unelected POTUS. That said speculatively, Pence would have the opportunity to work with Pelosi to avoid impeachment, ie., replace Cabinet Members, renew nuclear deal with Iran, reverse several Trump presidential orders, abandon the Wall, etc., to retain his new presidency.

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Interesting times, just imagine if Trump survives this. Man oh man, would that be a hoot.

If Trump stays in then Americas in a hole... if Biden gets in you're in the swamp again  !

Xi Jingping must be pissing himself  laughing.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

If Trump stays in then Americas in a hole... if Biden gets in you're in the swamp again  !

Xi Jingping must be pissing himself  laughing.

"trump" is his own worse swamp but I agree Biden is too swampy and I also don't think he'll even be nominated by the democrats in the first place.

The biggest winner in this mess already is Putin.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Jingthing

[Becker]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

"trump" is his own worse swamp but I agree Biden is too swampy and I also don't think he'll even be nominated by the democrats in the first place.

The biggest winner in this mess already is Putin.

Putin has been the biggest winner since he helped his asset (Trump) to victory. He must have had three great years.

[AgMech Cowboy]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

after a whistleblower report raised concerns that he tried to leverage nearly $400 million in U.S. aid in exchange for a political favour from Ukraine's leader.

Reuters has really gone downhill. This is nothing but complete fabrication. It worse than Rep Adam Schiff's 'parady'.

[Becker]

4 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Reuters has really gone downhill. This is nothing but complete fabrication. It worse than Rep Adam Schiff's 'parady'.

The whistleblower report raised concerns that he tried to leverage nearly $400 million in U.S. aid in exchange for a political favor from Ukraine's leader. That's a FACT. That's exactly what was in the report so your denial of that fact is incomprehensible.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Reuters has really gone downhill. This is nothing but complete fabrication. It worse than Rep Adam Schiff's 'parady'.

No. It is real. Plus, there is even more coming. MUCH more. 

Quote

There’s another whistleblower complaint. It’s about Trump’s tax returns.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-whistleblower-complaint-you-havent-heard-of-relates-to-trumps-taxes/2019/09/30/10835424-e3c0-11e9-b403-f738899982d2_story.html

Edited October 1, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

 

2 minutes ago, Becker said:

The whistleblower report raised concerns that he tried to leverage nearly $400 million in U.S. aid in exchange for a political favor from Ukraine's leader. That's a FACT. That's exactly what was in the report so your denial of that fact is incomprehensible.

That's all the "trump" fans have left. They aren't even trying to defend the indefensible because the smoking gun has been shot and understood as such by the majority of the American people. Plus that's only the opening shot. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Jingthing

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Not funny, and 100% wrong. The last 3 years with the so-called "right" in power has led to record number of minorities in employment, new records again and again on stock markets, the southern border wall under construction and so many other incredible achievements. Trump supporters and people that love the USA are incredibly happy, proud and positive. Yet those that supported the loser in the last election, still just can't accept their defeat, and have resorted to negativity the likes never seen before. You might want to rethink exactly who the "negative" people are.

troll

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

The Republicans created this environment during the whole Clinton scandal, so it is completely fair it is coming back on them. It does mean, however, that impeachment has now become a political tool that can and will be used more and more frequently. Just like filibustering used to be seen as a very serious act used only for the most severe cases, and today it is commonplace.

 

There is no longer morality or good governance involved in impeachment proceedings, and I don't blame the Democrats for this. They are just doing what the people want. But to think that this is anything more than a political show is naive.  The Republicans railed against how Clinton comitted perjury 20 years ago and the Democrats are railing againt Trump today. Won't change the outcome.

 

The interesting point is how both parties are going to try and spin the information that comes out of this during the 2020 elections.  That is really the only purpose to it. The senators already know how they are going to vote.

 

 

Hmmm. IIRC, that would be when Bill lied to the American government and people? He got away with it because the Democrat majority in the Senate didn't turn on him. More importantly they, by this action, made it clear honesty, ethics and decent behavior were irrelevant to them.

 

The Democracts are going after Trump, as they have been since day one, because he prevented their anointed Hilary, who they cheated into the POTUS election, from the presidency they believe rightfully was hers. 

 

All, as you say, a matter of spin. One only has to watch shiffty Schiff spinning words, using weaselly words, and bending reality.

 

Trump might be all manner of things, but let's not pretend the Dems are any better.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Baerboxer

[ThePioneer]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Senator Mitch McConnell appeared to put to rest speculation that he would use his position to derail any impeachment effort by the Democratic-led House by avoiding a trial at all. The Republicans control the Senate and have been largely muted about the allegations and inquiries into fellow-Republican Trump.

This impeachment inquiry comes a a gods scent for the republicans, as it is their only chance to get rid of a clown without having to speak out themselves

[mtls2005]

7 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

This impeachment inquiry comes a a gods scent for the republicans, as it is their only chance to get rid of a clown without having to speak out themselves

 

Yes, they can blame it on the deep state, dems, Hillary, Soros.

 

By the way, I love the smell of a good god in the morning; it's a godsend.

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Hmmm. IIRC, that would be when Bill lied to the American government and people? He got away with it because the Democrat majority in the Senate didn't turn on him. More importantly they, by this action, made it clear honesty, ethics and decent behavior were irrelevant to them.

 

The Democracts are going after Trump, as they have been since day one, because he prevented their anointed Hilary, who they cheated into the POTUS election, from the presidency they believe rightfully was hers. 

 

All, as you say, a matter of spin. One only has to watch shiffty Schiff spinning words, using weaselly words, and bending reality.

 

Trump might be all manner of things, but let's not pretend the Dems are any better.

I really don't get this often quoted 'Dems are no better' than Republicans trope when the facts don't bear this out whatsoever.

Obama took America from the brink of meltdown to the healthiest western economy by far and more importantly, in the 8 years of his presidency not a single person affiliated with either himself, his administration or his campaign was ever charged with never mind found guilty of any felonies.

In charge of a booming economy, Trump has managed to add $2 trillion to the federal debt (and still growing) whilst at least 6 of his associates have been convicted of felonies. Mueller has already stated he is at least guilty of obstruction of justice and he is now facing impeachment. 

Tell me how again the Dems are worse? 

[Becker]

23 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Hmmm. IIRC, that would be when Bill lied to the American government and people? He got away with it because the Democrat majority in the Senate didn't turn on him. More importantly they, by this action, made it clear honesty, ethics and decent behavior were irrelevant to them.

 

The Democracts are going after Trump, as they have been since day one, because he prevented their anointed Hilary, who they cheated into the POTUS election, from the presidency they believe rightfully was hers. 

 

All, as you say, a matter of spin. One only has to watch shiffty Schiff spinning words, using weaselly words, and bending reality.

 

Trump might be all manner of things, but let's not pretend the Dems are any better.

Blah, blah, Hillary, blah...

 

"The Democracts are going after Trump, as they have been since day one, because he prevented their anointed Hilary, who they cheated into the POTUS election, from the presidency they believe rightfully was hers."

Wrong. The Dems are going after Trump because he's proven without doubt to be completely unfit for the presidency due to his constant lying, cheating, treachery and, last but not least, blackmailing. 

In fact, it would be hard to find anyone less suited for the job than Trump even if one actively tried to find one.

 

"Trump might be all manner of things, but let's not pretend the Dems are any better."

Yes they are, and so are most Republicans.

[Becker]

Link: Judge Andrew Napolitano says issue of whether whistleblower complaint is based on hearsay is now moot

 

"President Trump acknowledges the veracity of the declassified transcript of his phone call with Ukraine's leader, says Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano."

[Thomas J]

Rather amazing.  The DNC and Hillary Clinton hire through their law firm a former British Spy Christopher Steele to write a fictitious dossier of crimes regarding Russia/Trump collusion and that is not a crime.  They lie to a FISA court to obtain warrants allowing the wiretapping of Trump and that is not a crime.  Joe Biden brings his son aboard Air Force 2 to China and 10 days following the trip the Chinese Government awards Hunter Biden with a $1.5 billion dollar contract to buy businesses in the USA some of which were dual civilian and military businesses and even questioning that is forbidden.  As if China needed the assistance of Hunter Biden to buy U.S. properties.  Joe Biden goes to Ukraine and steers $1 billion in aide to Ukraine and suddenly his son Hunter Biden gets a $86,000 a month job "advising" a Ukrainian Oil & Gas company despite having no expertise in either Ukraine or oil and gas.  That too is not to be questioned.  The Senate issues a letter (attached) essentially threatening Ukraine if they don't cooperate in investigating Trump and that is considered OK.  However, let Trump suggest that Ukraine investigate possible corruption and that is " an impeachable offense"  

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, Becker said:

The whistleblower report raised concerns that he tried to leverage nearly $400 million in U.S. aid in exchange for a political favor from Ukraine's leader. That's a FACT. That's exactly what was in the report so your denial of that fact is incomprehensible.

Becker,  Trump did indeed stall the $400 million dollars in military aid to Ukraine however that fact was not brought up during Trump's telephone exchange with the Ukrainian President nor was it even known for 1 month following the call.  Additionally, Trump took actions to get European nations to contribute to Ukranian aid rather than just have the USA pick up the entire bill.  He knew once the USA gave the money Europe would be less likely to contribute.  That also has been documented.  

[mtls2005]

7 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Becker,  Trump did indeed stall the $400 million dollars in military aid to Ukraine however that fact was not brought up during Trump's telephone exchange with the Ukrainian President nor was it even known for 1 month following the call.  Additionally, Trump took actions to get European nations to contribute to Ukranian aid rather than just have the USA pick up the entire bill.  He knew once the USA gave the money Europe would be less likely to contribute.  That also has been documented.  

 

The funds were appropriated by congress, and all branches approved the release of the funds. Ergo, the president has no legal authority to hold the funds pursuant to additional "favors".

 

Congress was told (by Mulvaney) that some inter-agency SNAFU was causing the delay in disbursement.

 

The $391 million was our commitment, not some overall commitment.

 

The president has not yet articulated this version to the public, maybe he did in one of his hundred plus rage tweets?

 

 

 

Now ask me if I think doling out Javelin missiles is a good idea, I mean other than for Raytheon?

 

Operation Cyclone worked out so very well now didn't it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by mtls2005

[puck2]

The presidents of the USA before Trump have had an acceptable grade of moral, even the Rep-ones.

 

Under the LOTUS (Liar Of The.......) Trump the moral of such an important job is going down into a cesspool.

• There is nothing you can rely on, except of daily lies, (not enough place here to submit all his lies, but everybody with a healthy brain knows about them)

• aggressive behavior against all who don't bow down to him or disagree, (whistleblower)

• thinking he can lead the country like his rotten private companies, (firing or losing an incredible number of high raking state officials)

• behaving like a dictator, (pushing people out of their ranks when they seem to be too strong and dangerous for him)

• not respecting the law and rules, (Kiev-affair - Bidden)

• working more against his “enemies“ than for the country (look at his daily time table)

• knowing all better than the experts (in the Kiev-affair)

• very low IQ and therefore not understanding and recognizing simple facts

• pursuing own interests in general (tax)

• no reliability (leaving climate contract)

• devious like a snake (Kiev affair)

• female affairs ( when his wife was pregnant, among other deceits)

• intimidation of people, if dangerous for him (whistle-blower/s)

   

I have to stop, because listing all of his moral problems would hurt my fingers.

 

Under former presidents -Trumps never deserves this title – every single point would have had consequences in parliament and/or in courts. They all had at least a minimum of moral and didn't abuse their power. But not Trump. And that is the problem of these days in the USA.

 

For me, one reason is the American constitution with holes more than a Swiss cheese. Under Trump it is shown day by day, the POTUS has too much power, given by the constitution. and not enough control by the other democratic institution, the parliament and high court (which is now a tool in the hands of a president or a party - and not neutral!!!).

 

If Trump would like to start a war, for example in Iran, who would stop him? The constitution? (5555).