Final proposal - PM Johnson to unveil Brexit offer to EU

[stephenterry]

19 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The UK Parliament is trying to stop us from leaving. They may succeed temporarily, but if you think that Brexiteers are going to forget about the referendum result that they won then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

It's only a matter of time until the next General Election, despite the oppositions lack of balls to call one. The swamp will be drained, the traitors and anti-democrats will be removed from their seats and then we will see how much you love the sovereignty of Parliament, when it's full of Leavers as voted for by the electorate ????.

 

As Cox said, these turkeys cannot avoid Christmas forever. I can wait, as will the rest of the democratic, silent majority that wish to leave. 

 

All Parliament is doing is putting the country on hold, delaying investment and dragging our reputation and currency through the dirt. If that makes you happy then enjoy it while it lasts, because the hour glass is running out for this disgrace of a Parliament ✊????.

 

I respect your (incendiary) views, but do not agree with them, mainly because it's not factual as at TODAY (not 2016) when 53% of the 77 combined voting population polls indicate a remain outcome.

 

Which means at a GE the LD party would be given a free rein to contest all marginal tory seats and should gain about 15 more seats than already. So, there won't be a parliament overflowing with leavers - not by a long chalk.

 

Brexiteers could harp all they like, but it doesn't alter the fact they're in a minority nowadays - a fact that posters on here and johnson chooses to ignore.  

 

 

[sandyf]

46 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The EU doesn't have a proper trade deal with US and China. That was my point. 

 

So it's not going to be very difficult to get something that is better than nothing, is it?

Only the delusional would think that there is a great deal to be had with either the US or China, there is a valid reason why both countries have failed with the EU.

 

"So it's not going to be very difficult to get something that is better than nothing, is it?"

How very true, ask any street girl.

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

36 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The UK Parliament is trying to stop us from leaving.

They are carrying out their duties for which they have been democratically elected. Again you seem to ignore that the UK is a parliamentary representative democracy, not one governed by opinion polls. 

 

36 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

They may succeed temporarily, but if you think that Brexiteers are going to forget about the referendum result that they won then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

It's only a matter of time until the next General Election, despite the oppositions lack of balls to call one. The swamp will be drained, the traitors and anti-democrats will be removed from their seats and then we will see how much you love the sovereignty of Parliament, when it's full of Leavers as voted for by the electorate 

I don’t read in crystal balls. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

If that makes you happy then enjoy it while it lasts, because the hour glass is running out for this disgrace of a Parliament ✊????.

It’s always a good laugh seeing bullies fail. 

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, Boatfreak said:

 

So he does it again!

[JonnyF]

17 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I respect your (incendiary) views, but do not agree with them, mainly because it's not factual as at TODAY (not 2016) when 53% of the 77 combined voting population polls indicate a remain outcome.

 

Which means at a GE the LD party would be given a free rein to contest all marginal tory seats and should gain about 15 more seats than already. So, there won't be a parliament overflowing with leavers - not by a long chalk.

 

Brexiteers could harp all they like, but it doesn't alter the fact they're in a minority nowadays - a fact that posters on here and johnson chooses to ignore.  

 

 

Polls? ???? How were those polls before the 2016 referendum?

 

You might think that Leavers are a minority. I suspect that's because they go quietly about their business and wait until elections to make their opinion known. Remainers on the other hand are a vocal minority, shouting from the rooftops to anyone that will listen, until they get slaughtered at the election and then claim it doesn't count ????.

[JonnyF]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Only the delusional would think that there is a great deal to be had with either the US or China, there is a valid reason why both countries have failed with the EU.

 

"So it's not going to be very difficult to get something that is better than nothing, is it?"

How very true, ask any street girl.

 

Yes there's a valid reason those talks failed, it called the EU negotiating stance of "Here's a bad deal, take it or leave it". Most leave it.

 

As for street girls, sorry I don't mix in that type of company so I'll have to take your word for it.

[robertson468]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I just read this interesting article. Enjoy!

 

While Johnson plays games, the EU prepares to move on

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/01/boris-johnson-eu-prime-minister-brexit

 

"There is no reason why Merkel or Macron should fashion a deal to the specifications of a Tory campaign. While Downing Street is thinking about clap lines for a speech, the EU wants legal guarantees that can withstand future changes in the political weather. The two sides are not operating to the same time horizon. Both say they want a deal, but Johnson means a headline to get through the week; Brussels means a treaty to secure the integrity of the European project for a generation."

 

The Author of the Guardian article is clearly a Remainer, much like yourself.  I have asked the question many times and so far not received a satisfactory answer...........why do we need two Governments to run the Country?  Please, please do not tell me that the EU does not impose it's legislation on the UK!

Edited October 2, 2019 by robertson468

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The UK Parliament is trying to stop us from leaving. They may succeed temporarily, but if you think that Brexiteers are going to forget about the referendum result that they won then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

It's only a matter of time until the next General Election, despite the oppositions lack of balls to call one. The swamp will be drained, the traitors and anti-democrats will be removed from their seats and then we will see how much you love the sovereignty of Parliament, when it's full of Leavers as voted for by the electorate ????.

 

As Cox said, these turkeys cannot avoid Christmas forever. I can wait, as will the rest of the democratic, silent majority that wish to leave. 

 

All Parliament is doing is putting the country on hold, delaying investment and dragging our reputation and currency through the dirt. If that makes you happy then enjoy it while it lasts, because the hour glass is running out for this disgrace of a Parliament ✊????.

 

Do you really think you are convincing anyone with this kind of inflammatory rhetoric?  

 

'The swamp will be drained' - Do you find quoting the most hated man in the Western hemisphere particularly helpful to convince Remainers?

'the traitors and anti-democrats will be removed from their seats' - wow, just wow. since when was upholding your parliamentary obligations traitorous? 

'We will see how much you love the sovereignty of Parliament, when it's full of Leavers as voted for by the electorate' - if you are fortunate to have a parliamentary majority to enact your wishes then I'm sure, unlike yourself, the vast majority of us would accept this because WE BELIEVE IN PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY. It's a shame most Leavers don't.

'the hour glass is running out for this disgrace of a Parliament' - but until it does, it will be respected and adhered to.

 

We get used to rabid Brexiters on here. You seem to be foaming at the mouth more than most though.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

The Author of the Guardian article is clearly a Remainer, much like yourself.  I have asked the question many times and so far not received a satisfactory answer...........why do we need two Governments to run the Country?  Please, please do not tell me that the EU does not apply it's legislation on the UK!

It does not rally matter who wrote the article. The paragraph which I quoted describes the truth. Boris want's to survive the next couple of weeks. That is his main goal.

 

And about the two governments: The UK made lots of agreements with the EU. The idea about those agreements is to make life better for everybody involved.

If the UK would be out of the EU and if the UK made a trade agreement with the USA then there will also be things which the UK has to do to honor that agreement. Would you call that two governments? 

[finnishmen]

only big idiot country want join stupid communism scammer idea eu, eu thief lot lot money and make lot own law and lot more only problems, what country win if join to eu, ? nothing. better no think all <deleted> europe union.

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

52/48 was a majority to leave.

WAS being the operative word

[Basil B]

4 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

Most Europeans I know would love to see the UK sink into the sea. And I am tired of all the whining of a bunch of incapable fools. Best would be to close all borders for 100%, to close the tunnel and let them sort it out for themselves.

Don't like the company you keep...

[Pattaya46]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Because we are the fifth largest economy in the world, a great nation with a great shared history with the US. We will be self governing and therefore much more dynamic than the cumbersome, out-dated, un-democratic monolith that is the EU.

5^th? You were... Now 7^th

You are dreaming on the past great UK.
India and France now make better than UK. 

GDB Rank

[johnnybangkok]

25 minutes ago, finnishmen said:

only big idiot country want join stupid communism scammer idea eu, eu thief lot lot money and make lot own law and lot more only problems, what country win if join to eu, ? nothing. better no think all <deleted> europe union.

Well that's clear then

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Do you really think you are convincing anyone with this kind of inflammatory rhetoric?  

 

'The swamp will be drained' - Do you find quoting the most hated man in the Western hemisphere particularly helpful to convince Remainers?

'the traitors and anti-democrats will be removed from their seats' - wow, just wow. since when was upholding your parliamentary obligations traitorous? 

'We will see how much you love the sovereignty of Parliament, when it's full of Leavers as voted for by the electorate' - if you are fortunate to have a parliamentary majority to enact your wishes then I'm sure, unlike yourself, the vast majority of us would accept this because WE BELIEVE IN PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY. It's a shame most Leavers don't.

'the hour glass is running out for this disgrace of a Parliament' - but until it does, it will be respected and adhered to.

 

We get used to rabid Brexiters on here. You seem to be foaming at the mouth more than most though.

 

When a UK MP colludes with the EU to undermine the UK government's position, that is traitorous.  

 

I know you Remainers love to try and control the language that others can use, but my description is entirely accurate. I'm sure you hate the phrase "surrender bill" as well. The reason Remainers hate these words so much is because of their unerring accuracy. The truth hurts.

 

I will add one more. Remainer MP's are cowardly. They don't want an election because they know they will lose their seats. They pretend it's because they don't trust Johnson with the election date when they know full well a one line bill could set the date of the election to be before Brexit. Which makes them liars as well. If they thought they'd win the election, Corbyn would call one.

 

The lib dems and Labour MP's were voted in on manifestos to honour the result of the referendum and now they have changed their minds. Is that anti-democratic or dishonest? Let's go for both.

 

So yes, this Parliament is a disgrace. It's dysfunctional. Even the speaker is biased. I'm not sure how you claim it is respected. Most of the country is aware that it's a complete shambles and has nothing but contempt for it, and that includes a lot of Remainers.

[stephenterry]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Polls? ???? How were those polls before the 2016 referendum?

 

You might think that Leavers are a minority. I suspect that's because they go quietly about their business and wait until elections to make their opinion known. Remainers on the other hand are a vocal minority, shouting from the rooftops to anyone that will listen, until they get slaughtered at the election and then claim it doesn't count ????.

Now you really are posting absolute rubbish, as is obvious by your incendiary retorts on this forum today. Take a sedative, a deep breath, and calm down.  

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

When a UK MP colludes with the EU to undermine the UK government's position, that is traitorous.  

 

I know you Remainers love to try and control the language that others can use, but my description is entirely accurate. I'm sure you hate the phrase "surrender bill" as well. The reason Remainers hate these words so much is because of their unerring accuracy. The truth hurts.

 

I will add one more. Remainer MP's are cowardly. They don't want an election because they know they will lose their seats. They pretend it's because they don't trust Johnson with the election date when they know full well a one line bill could set the date of the election to be before Brexit. Which makes them liars as well. If they thought they'd win the election, Corbyn would call one.

 

The lib dems and Labour MP's were voted in on manifestos to honour the result of the referendum and now they have changed their minds. Is that anti-democratic or dishonest? Let's go for both.

 

So yes, this Parliament is a disgrace. It's dysfunctional. Even the speaker is biased. I'm not sure how you claim it is respected. Most of the country is aware that it's a complete shambles and has nothing but contempt for it, and that includes a lot of Remainers.

Well I'm convinced.

[JonnyF]

32 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Now you really are posting absolute rubbish, as is obvious by your incendiary retorts on this forum today. Take a sedative, a deep breath, and calm down.  

Perfectly calm thanks. Sorry you find facts incendiary. Here are some more for ya...

 

Keep believing those polls though ????

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-right-or-wrong-were-the-polls/

 

[Monomial]

So it seems like the endgame is here. Boris has submitted his final plan to EU members and given them a take it or leave without a deal ultimatum. (Although he has intimated there is room for deviations and compromises.)

 

He is going to fight the Benn Act in the EU courts, claiming that EU law requires members to negotiate with the government, not with a national parliament, and that the Benn Act was made in violation of this rule. EU law being superior to UK law, he will refuse to send an extension letter unless the EU courts rule otherwise.  I doubt the EU courts will deliver a judgement before the end of the month.  Not sure what EU membership rules say about enforcement of a national law that conflicts with EU law, but I assume his lawyers understand the nuances and believe it is safe for him not to send the letter. Certainly the queen won't sack him if his guilt has not been legally established.

 

So there are 2 questions:

 

1. What will the UK parliament do?  a) Accept his deal, b) accept a no-deal brexit, or c) execute a no confidence vote and agree on someone to replace him?

2. What will the EU members do, specifically Ireland. They can scream all they want that they don't like it, but ultimately it sounds like they are being given the choice of Boris' deal or no deal.

 

Interesting times over the next few weeks. Basically the only people who can throw a spanner into the works now are the MPs in the UK parliament, but the Benn Act seems to be neutered under this strategy. They are going to have to remove Boris. Can they pull it off?  Now we see why Boris wanted them prorogued during this period. If they weren't in session, they wouldn't be able to do anything.

 

 

[Jip99]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

WAS being the operative word

 

 

NO....”Majority” ....and LEAVE, were the operative words.

[JonnyF]

Yep, sounds like Boris' final plan is to offer a NI Backstop only with a fixed end date of 2025. I doubt the EU will go for this, but if they think No Deal is a real possibility then they might.

 

Personally I think No Deal is a better option for the UK. Hopefully Johnson knows a way around the Surrender Bill.

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

Final Proposal summarized :

- We don not how to handle, but for sure no one will agree with our BS proposal , indeed we will blame EU for all our failures after the 31st !

 

 

What a foolish statement.

[david555]

7 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

What a foolish statement.

No... he is realistic as this proposal is as good as in the rubbish bin already ….

[Jip99]

10 minutes ago, david555 said:

No... he is realistic as this proposal is as good as in the rubbish bin already ….

 

 

Really?

[david555]

7 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Really?

yep...., just wait a few hours …. as the E.U. is polite enough to let Boris first deliver his speech before reacting officially

Irish reaction was just a warm up , or shall I better call it  a pre-cold reaction  ...

Edited October 2, 2019 by david555

[JAG]

9 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Brussels means a treaty to secure the integrity of the European project for a generation."

If (when) we are no longer part of the "European Project" then we will have no part in securing it. Unless they mean that they want us to continue paying towards it for a generation!

[david555]

5 minutes ago, JAG said:

If (when) we are no longer part of the "European Project" then we will have no part in securing it. Unless they mean that they want us to continue paying towards it for a generation!

no you are right …, only paying your tab bill small or big whatever it is 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Yes there's a valid reason those talks failed, it called the EU negotiating stance of "Here's a bad deal, take it or leave it". Most leave it.

Time you did some homework.

Both countries failed because they did not want to satisfy the same level of standards that we enjoy as members of the EU.

Of course we are quite aware that the hard liners have no interest in standards, quite happy to see people suffer from sub standard goods as long as they get what they want.

When people try and take a Chinese or US company to court they will come to realise how well protected they used to be.

[Jip99]

17 minutes ago, david555 said:

yep...., just wait a few hours …. as the E.U. is polite enough to let Boris first deliver his speech before reacting officially

Irish reaction was just a warm up , or shall I better call it  a pre-cold reaction  ...

 

 

New Deal or No Deal.

 

 

I don’t give a flying fart which it is.

 

 

Over to you Barnier/Juncker.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Time you did some homework.

Both countries failed because they did not want to satisfy the same level of standards that we enjoy as members of the EU.

Of course we are quite aware that the hard liners have no interest in standards, quite happy to see people suffer from sub standard goods as long as they get what they want.

When people try and take a Chinese or US company to court they will come to realise how well protected they used to be.

That is a really daft post.....????