White House attempting gambit to slow House impeachment push

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

Here's my bet. Trump will definitely be impeached. He will not be convicted.

 

The Republicans made this the new normal when they went after Clinton. Yes, Clinton comitted perjury. He was impeached for this. But there was no outrage in the country to get him convicted for it. People just didn't care that he broke the law.

 

Same here. Trump probably broke a law or 3. He will be impeached. But there is not sufficient outrage in the country to convict him for it.

 

From now on, in the future, every president that doesn't come from the same party as the House can look forward to a possible impeachment for what will become increasingly minor infractions.   It has become a political tool to be used by the opposition. Filibusters in the Senate used to be unimaginable also in the early days, right up until they weren't.

 

But if you are seriously claiming Trump will be convicted or removed from office for this, I will take that bet.

 

These aren't minor infractions. That's the flaw in your argument. 

[Monomial]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

These aren't minor infractions. That's the flaw in your argument. 

 

According to you, but not everyone shares your values. Perhaps you forgot the howling from the deep south Republicans about how Clinton represented the epitome of evil? There are many Americans who don't think this is a serious infraction either. Really. Think about it. Your word "minor infraction" is a relative judgement. Why do you think others couldn't consider Trump's transgressions to be a minor infraction.

 

Look, I don't like Trump. But I'm also not naive. This isn't going anywhere. It's political theater.

 

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

According to you, but not everyone shares your values. Perhaps you forgot the howling from the deep south Republicans about how Clinton represented the epitome of evil? There are many Americans who don't think this is a serious infraction either. Really. Think about it. Your word "minor infraction" is a relative judgement. Why do you think others couldn't consider Trump's transgressions to be a minor infraction.

 

Look, I don't like Trump. But I'm also not naive. This isn't going anywhere. It's political theater.

 

Answer -- nobody thinks they are minor infractions. They're spinning. The republican politicians spewing that spin are simply trying to protect their own keisters. They're AFRAID of 45. They're afraid of the anger of the 45 hard core base fans in their constituencies. This is different and I don't accept your argument at all. Insiders have already reported that the overwhelming majority of REPUBLICAN senators would vote to CONVICT this president if they could have a SECRET vote. One thing is not like another. Each impeachment attempt is UNIQUE. 

Cheers. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[Monomial]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Answer -- nobody thinks they are minor infractions. They're spinning. The republican politicians spewing that spin are simply trying to protect their own keisters. They're AFRAID of 45. They're afraid of the anger of the 45 hard core base fans in their constituencies. This is different and I don't accept your argument at all. Insiders have already reported that the overwhelming majority of REPUBLICAN senators would vote to CONVICT this president if they could have a SECRET vote. One thing is not like another. Each impeachment attempt is UNIQUE. 

Cheers. 

 

And why is it that a SECRET vote is important?  Answer? Because the representatives are afraid of the recriminations from voters. In other words, the voting public doesn't consider these infractions so serious. Trump enjoys power because he is popular.

 

Don't misunderstand. I am not saying I personally think what he has done is acceptable. But I recognized he was a psycopath and a demagogue from the very beginning. If voters couldn't see that obvious problem 3 years ago, why do you think they have suddenly seen the light?  My sister is from Washington state and staunchly anti Trump. My mother is in rural Colorado and staunchly pro Trump. I get both sides of the debate. Neither individual is a racist or evil.  They have their own value systems. I lean closer to my sister's POV, but I see why my mother believes the way she does.

 

The representatives need a SECRET vote because they fear that their value systems are unlikely to align with their voting constituents. Forget the representatives. What does the voting public want? Ultimately, theirs is the voice that matters, and the numbers just aren't there for a conviction. Of course, there is always the possibility that the trial could uncover something which does finally tip the scales, but I think that needs to be on the order of Trump pulling babies out of incubators, not just misusing the powers of the presidency for political gain.

 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Care to put money where your mouth is , I say Trump will definitely get impeached , whats the wager ?

I’ll have some of that action. 

[earlinclaifornia]

8 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

As expected this latest in a long line of witch hunts is fizzling out by the second. At this early stage the score is Trump +1, Biden -5, and democrat party -20. Their credibility is now totally shot. It might have been different had there not been the Russia collusion hoax, the peepee dossier hoax, and all the rest of the desperate measures that promised Trump’s fall from grace, yet only served to galvanise his base and productive citizens in general.

 I would be surprised if Schiff doesn’t get dumped this week. It has been embarrassing watching him.

WH talking Points won't help!

 The Trump–Russia dossier, also known as the Steele dossier, is a private intelligence report ... In October 2015, Fusion GPS was contracted by conservative political website The Washington Free ..

[FritsSikkink]

8 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

As expected this latest in a long line of witch hunts is fizzling out by the second. At this early stage the score is Trump +1, Biden -5, and democrat party -20. Their credibility is now totally shot. It might have been different had there not been the Russia collusion hoax, the peepee dossier hoax, and all the rest of the desperate measures that promised Trump’s fall from grace, yet only served to galvanise his base and productive citizens in general.

 I would be surprised if Schiff doesn’t get dumped this week. It has been embarrassing watching him.

troll

[quandow]

4 hours ago, Spike1938 said:

Now that Pompeo has decided to ignore a legal congressional subpoena I don't understand why USA Marshals are not standing at his door with handcuffs at the ready?

 

[earlinclaifornia]

2 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Care to put money where your mouth is , I say Trump will definitely get impeached , whats the wager ?

I would take the bet he is not re-elected.

[Jingthing]

  And why is it that a SECRET vote is important?  Answer? Because the representatives are afraid of the recriminations from voters. In other words, the voting public doesn't consider these infractions so serious. Trump enjoys power because he is popular.

 

Don't misunderstand. I am not saying I personally think what he has done is acceptable. But I recognized he was a psycopath and a demagogue from the very beginning. If voters couldn't see that obvious problem 3 years ago, why do you think they have suddenly seen the light?  My sister is from Washington state and staunchly anti Trump. My mother is in rural Colorado and staunchly pro Trump. I get both sides of the debate. Neither individual is a racist or evil.  They have their own value systems. I lean closer to my sister's POV, but I see why my mother believes the way she does.

 

The representatives need a SECRET vote because they fear that their value systems are unlikely to align with their voting constituents. Forget the representatives. What does the voting public want? Ultimately, theirs is the voice that matters, and the numbers just aren't there for a conviction. Of course, there is always the possibility that the trial could uncover something which does finally tip the scales, but I think that needs to be on the order of Trump pulling babies out of incubators, not just misusing the powers of the presidency for political gain.

 

 

Agree to disagree.His hard core base people don't care how serious his crimes are.

They stick with him no matter what.

He realized that himself when he made his infamous statement that his supporters would stick with him even if he openly went out on the street and shot people dead.

 

To wit

 

 

What he is now doing openly is arguably much worse than that as far as casualties.

He's conducting foreign policy based on his own personal needs.

There is zero doubt that he is the most deserving of Impeachment than any US president in history.

If he isn't at least impeached by the house we may as well strike that power from the constitution. He must be impeached and he will be impeached. The destructive precedent of not impeaching in this case is just too massive to consider.

I believe that Pelosi is willing to take on massive political risk to do this for the sake of doing the right and needed thing in historical perspective.

 

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

[doggie1955]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I think this is instructive; notice that there really is no argument in favour the rectitude of his actions, but rather a focus on delay and obfuscation. And, this is the problem; the White House/the Republicans have lost all sense of right and wrong, all sense of ethics and all sense of 'Doing The Right Thing' in favour of power for power's sake

 

The real villain here is the Republican party. Yes, Trump has done horrible, immoral, illegal things and will continue to do so until his ass is tossed in jail, but that is Trump. It is the Republican party that enables him. And, it is the Republican party that will pay the price long after he is gone.

 

There are good Republicans; Romney, Sasse, Porter, Burr and more. But, as long as they play along and allow Trump to flout the law and convention, they are as guilty as he is. Further, all those Senators ran on principles of Good Governance, Rule of Law, Free Trade, the Constitution, Limited Government and Executive Power etc, and they are just cowardly allowing Trump to walk all over those things. There is going to be a vote on Trump's impeachment, and that vote is going to define political careers well into the future (had Hillary voted against the Iraq war, she likely would have beaten Obama in 2008).

 

Be careful Republicans, be very careful. What you do over the next few months is going to affect you for decades to come. And, if you tie your future to Trump, then you'll wear that mark on your forehead like a 'shame' tattoo forever.

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste that defiles everything it touches.

 

Keep your distance or get splashed...

 

 

 

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/former-ukraine-ambassadors-testimony-throws-cold-water-democrats-quid-pro-quo-argument-against-trump?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

[doggie1955]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

45 just adding more weight to one of the articles of impeachment that will be coming when Pelosi decides the time is right, if she goes forward which is her choice -- OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/former-ukraine-ambassadors-testimony-throws-cold-water-democrats-quid-pro-quo-argument-against-trump?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

[doggie1955]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Correct. It is called treason, and Trump is the polar opposite of the patriot he falsely presents himself as. Five deferments from the draft, when his only opportunity to serve his nation, and not his self arrived. Total and complete cowardice. A total unwillingness to put his butt on the line. He would pee his pants if he faced live ammunition.

 

Now, he betrays the national security of his nation, to gain a potential advantage on an opponent. Over and over again. Openly. That is how brazen this crime lord is. It is a gangland administration, and sorry to say, his supporters, and the GOP members of the house and senate are now complicit in his illegal actions. Not only the cover up of the Ukraine calls, but the attempt to out the whistleblower. Both highly illegal. You can make an argument that there was no real proof of the Russian collusion. But the proof of the White House Ukraine crimes is right there, in black and white. Now, Pompeo is completely destroying any shred of credibility he had remaining, by attempting to prevent the state department officials from testifying. Yet, as loyal Americans they are coming forward anyway. Some people are simply unwilling to betray their nation, to the extent Trump, Pompeo and Barr are willing, to cling to power. It is called completely losing the plot and one's moral bearing. Most of us knew Trump lost that ability around the age of 12. But Barr and Pompeo? Shame on them. They have shown us who they really are. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/former-ukraine-ambassadors-testimony-throws-cold-water-democrats-quid-pro-quo-argument-against-trump?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

[doggie1955]

17 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

I would take the bet he is not re-elected.

All you liberals will lose that bet...

[Jingthing]

All you liberals will lose that bet...

Only guessing for anyone at this point.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/former-ukraine-ambassadors-testimony-throws-cold-water-democrats-quid-pro-quo-argument-against-trump?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

Right wing pro 45 bubble propaganda media. What did you expect?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sfokevin]

45 minutes ago, quandow said:

 

One should also point out to Mr Barr that Nixon retired to San Clemente while  his Attorney General was sentenced to 8 years in prison... 

Edited October 5, 2019 by sfokevin

[Becker]

Link: GOP Sen. Johnson says Trump blocked Ukraine aid

 

"A Republican senator said Friday he learned from a U.S. ambassador that President Donald Trump was tying military aid for Ukraine to an investigation of the 2016 election. But when the senator asked Trump if he could assure the Ukraine leadership the money would be coming, the president blocked him from carrying that message."

[Sujo]

42 minutes ago, Becker said:

Link: GOP Sen. Johnson says Trump blocked Ukraine aid

 

"A Republican senator said Friday he learned from a U.S. ambassador that President Donald Trump was tying military aid for Ukraine to an investigation of the 2016 election. But when the senator asked Trump if he could assure the Ukraine leadership the money would be coming, the president blocked him from carrying that message."

Please stop it with the facts. Too much head spinning from some.

[Kelsall]

Trump is right to refuse to comply until Pelosi takes a full vote on an impeachment inquiry.  Right now the inquiry is illegitimate. 

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, sfokevin said:

It would be advisable for anyone working in the Whitehouse is do a history refresher course before they withhold testimony or evidence... The next Warren administration will be very thorough... 

 

Back then America was a better country, with some semblance of morality. Since the gang boss took over, anything related to ethics, morals, honesty and integrity seems to be lost on his supporters and his corrupt administration. Don Donald has emptied the Washington swamp of 6 foot alligators and re-populated it with 14 foot crocodiles.

 

He sinks to new lows every day, and at this stage he is dragging down his supporters with him.

 

Continue supporting an unhinged madman at your own peril. 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, sfokevin said:

One should also point out to Mr Barr that Nixon retired to San Clemente while  his Attorney General was sentenced to 8 years in prison... 

One can only hope that Barr ends up disbarred and behind bars. He is perhaps the second most corrupt AG in American history. 

[joecoolfrog]

8 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

Here's my bet. Trump will definitely be impeached. He will not be convicted.

 

The Republicans made this the new normal when they went after Clinton. Yes, Clinton comitted perjury. He was impeached for this. But there was no outrage in the country to get him convicted for it. People just didn't care that he broke the law.

 

Same here. Trump probably broke a law or 3. He will be impeached. But there is not sufficient outrage in the country to convict him for it.

 

From now on, in the future, every president that doesn't come from the same party as the House can look forward to a possible impeachment for what will become increasingly minor infractions.   It has become a political tool to be used by the opposition. Filibusters in the Senate used to be unimaginable also in the early days, right up until they weren't.

 

But if you are seriously claiming Trump will be convicted or removed from office for this, I will take that bet.

 

No I agree , he will be impeached but most unlikely to be removed from office.

The only way I could see that happening would be if Trump's poll numbers slumped dramatically , in which case Republican senators might turn on him.

I wouldn't imagine Pelosi expects him to be kicked out . She is probably banking on impeachment , and Trump's no doubt manic response , being enough to persuade swing and independent voters to turn against him.

Lets face it , his base dont care what he does and will vote for him regardless , hard to see anybody else backing them up though if impeachment happens and he doesn't shut up.

[Jingthing]

At this point it's obvious that he will be impeached and at this point 45 knows it. Of course removal as it stands now is unlikely thanks to his complicit senate enablers.

That such a president is being impeached is not surprising. No president including Nixon deserves it more.

But one thing is a little bit surprising. It's become clear that 45 really is bothered by being impeached when before he was urging it on supposedly for a political benefit of energizing his base.

So why is he so upset about being impeached?

Could be two reasons.

Could be that he thinks it will actually hurt him in 2020 and not help him.

Could be with his massive ego that he doesn't want to be remembered with the dark mark of Impeachment that has happened to very few presidents.


Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bendejo]

I think more crud will come to the surface before it actually comes to a vote, perhaps even linking his foreign policy shenanigans to money laundering and such dating back to before 2015 campaign announcement.  The GOP stalwarts could be buried in his slime (well, more than they already are).  A nice place to start looking would be here:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_International_Hotel_and_Tower_(Baku)

 

 

 

[TPI]

On 10/5/2019 at 6:21 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

I think this is instructive; notice that there really is no argument in favour the rectitude of his actions, but rather a focus on delay and obfuscation. And, this is the problem; the White House/the Republicans have lost all sense of right and wrong, all sense of ethics and all sense of 'Doing The Right Thing' in favour of power for power's sake

 

The real villain here is the Republican party. Yes, Trump has done horrible, immoral, illegal things and will continue to do so until his ass is tossed in jail, but that is Trump. It is the Republican party that enables him. And, it is the Republican party that will pay the price long after he is gone.

 

There are good Republicans; Romney, Sasse, Porter, Burr and more. But, as long as they play along and allow Trump to flout the law and convention, they are as guilty as he is. Further, all those Senators ran on principles of Good Governance, Rule of Law, Free Trade, the Constitution, Limited Government and Executive Power etc, and they are just cowardly allowing Trump to walk all over those things. There is going to be a vote on Trump's impeachment, and that vote is going to define political careers well into the future (had Hillary voted against the Iraq war, she likely would have beaten Obama in 2008).

 

Be careful Republicans, be very careful. What you do over the next few months is going to affect you for decades to come. And, if you tie your future to Trump, then you'll wear that mark on your forehead like a 'shame' tattoo forever.

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste that defiles everything it touches.

 

Keep your distance or get splashed...

 

 

 

 

But don't you realise that by continuing in this vane you're dooming your next successful candidate? If the Ukraine President says he wasn't pressured let it go at that...if you succeed in impeaching Trump you get Pence, who would you rather deal with? Pence becomes POTUS and pardons Trump, Trump is made VP, Pence resigns! Now you have a really angry POTUS! The Dem's must be on crack cocaine or something, there actions just don't make political sense!

Edited October 6, 2019 by TPI
grammar

[mtls2005]

17 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Trump is right to refuse to comply until Pelosi takes a full vote on an impeachment inquiry.  Right now the inquiry is illegitimate. 

 

Congress is in recess, making this sort of vote problematic.

 

But I think you are saying that the administration will fully comply with all document and witness requests once this formal vote is taken, and passed. Is that correct?

 

 

[Redline]

He wants to rewrite the Constitution he never read