EU tells PM Johnson to stop playing 'stupid' Brexit blame game

[webfact]

EU tells PM Johnson to stop playing 'stupid' Brexit blame game

By Guy Faulconbridge, Elizabeth Piper and John Chalmers

 

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson meets with European Parliament President David Sassoli (not pictured), at Downing Street, in London, Britain October 8, 2019. Aaron Chown/Pool via REUTERS

 

LONDON/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union accused Britain of playing a "stupid blame game" over Brexit on Tuesday after a Downing Street source said a deal was essentially impossible because German Chancellor Angela Merkel had made unacceptable demands.

 

With just 23 days before the United Kingdom is due to leave the bloc, the future of Brexit remains deeply uncertain as both London and Brussels position themselves to avoid blame for a delay or a disorderly no-deal Brexit.

 

In a sign that Johnson's last-ditch proposals to bridge the Brexit impasse have failed, a Downing Street source said Merkel and Johnson had had a frank exchange on Tuesday morning and she had made clear that a deal was "overwhelmingly unlikely".

 

The Downing Street source said that if Merkel's position on Northern Ireland remaining in the EU's customs union was the bloc's position, then a deal was impossible. The biggest hurdle to a deal remains the post-Brexit border arrangements between the British province of Northern Ireland and EU member Ireland.

 

On a day of escalating rhetoric over Brexit, European Council chief Donald Tusk has warned UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson not to indulge in a 'stupid blame game' over any breakdown in talks. Julian Satterthwaite reports.

 

"If this represents a new established position then it means a deal is essentially impossible not just now but ever," the Downing Street source said. Johnson insists Northern Ireland must leave the EU's customs union with the rest of the UK.

 

A spokesman for the German chancellor confirmed the call had taken place but declined to comment further.

 

However, Norbert Roettgen, a senior Merkel ally, said there was no new German position on Brexit. "Frankly a deal on the basis of Johnson’s proposals by Oct. 31 has been unrealistic from the beginning...," he said on Twitter.

 

Pressured by Brexit jitters, the pound fell 0.5% to $1.2226.

 

The EU was scathing about Johnson's stance.

 

"Boris Johnson, what's at stake is not winning some stupid blame game," European Council President Tusk said on Twitter.

 

"At stake is the future of Europe and the UK as well as the security and interests of our people. You don’t want a deal, you don’t want an extension, you don’t want to revoke, quo vadis?"

 

Such abrupt remarks indicate the Brexit blame game has begun in earnest, and that now both London and EU capitals are preparing for an acrimonious and potentially chaotic Brexit for which neither side wants to be held responsible.

 

Adding to the gloom, European Parliament President David Sassoli said after meeting Johnson on Tuesday there had been no progress in the Brexit talks.

 

"If his ideas are limited to what he presented to the negotiator (Michel) Barnier five days ago, it means that he doesn't actually want an agreement," Sassoli, an Italian, told reporters, speaking through a translator in London.

 

However, a Downing Street spokesman reiterated that Johnson wanted to leave the EU with a deal and said the proposals he had made last week respected both the Good Friday peace agreement on the island of Ireland and the EU's single market.

 

Johnson and his Irish counterpart Leo Varadkar reiterated their desire for a Brexit deal in a phone conversation on Tuesday evening and agreed to meet later this week, a Downing Street spokesperson said.

 

BREXIT BLAME GAME

A disorderly Brexit could rip apart the United Kingdom, endanger peace in Northern Ireland, hurt global growth and shape the future of the European Union, which was built on the ruins of World War Two.

 

An array of remarks by unidentified British sources laid bare just how far apart the two sides are after three years of tortuous haggling over the first departure of a sovereign state from the EU.

 

Brexit talks are now reaching a critical moment, a British spokesman said in Brussels, where Johnson's Brexit negotiator David Frost was in meetings with EU officials.

 

A separate Downing Street source told Reuters that unless the European Union compromises and does a Brexit deal shortly, then the United Kingdom will leave without a deal.

 

Arlene Foster, the leader of the Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party that supports Johnson's government, accused the EU and Ireland of trying to trap the British province in a permanent customs union.

 

Ireland braced for the worst with a no-deal Brexit budget while Britain announced its no-deal tariff plan and updated its preparations for a no-deal exit - a nightmare scenario for many big businesses.

 

Johnson has consistently said the United Kingdom will leave the EU on Oct. 31 with or without a deal, though a law passed by parliament demands he write a letter to the EU asking for a delay if he cannot strike an exit deal by Oct. 19.

 

He has said he would abide by the law but Britain would leave the EU by the end of the month, without explaining that contradiction. He has also repeatedly demanded an election but parliament has refused to grant one.

 

Scotland's top court will rule on Wednesday whether to order Johnson to abide by the law forcing a delay and if it could sign a letter asking for an extension if he refuses to do so himself.

 

The Spectator magazine quoted an unidentified source in Downing Street as saying that Britain would take an aggressive stance towards the EU if Brexit talks break down, possibly even by withholding security cooperation.

 

"This government will not negotiate further so any delay would be totally pointless," the source was quoted as saying. "We'll either leave with no deal on 31 October or there will be an election and then we will leave with no deal."

 

(Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; additional reporting by William James and Gabriela Baczynska, editing by Michael Holden, Angus MacSwan and Gareth Jones)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-09

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[englishoak]

Earlier today, I sent a message to a contact in Number 10 asking them how the Brexit talks were going. They sent a long reply which I think gives a pretty clear sense of where they think things are.

So, in the interest of trying to let people understand where Number 10 reckon the negotiations are, here is their response:

 

‘The negotiations will probably end this week. Varadkar doesn’t want to negotiate. Varadkar was keen on talking before the Benn Act when he thought that the choice would be ‘new deal or no deal’. Since the Benn Act passed he has gone very cold and in the last week the official channels and the backchannels have also gone cold. Varadkar has also gone back on his commitments — he said if we moved on manufactured goods then he would also move but instead he just attacked us publicly. It’s clear he wants to gamble on a second referendum and that he’s encouraging Barnier to stick to the line that the UK cannot leave the EU without leaving Northern Ireland behind.

There are quite a few people in Paris and Berlin who would like to discuss our offer but Merkel and Macron won’t push Barnier unless Ireland says it wants to negotiate. Those who think Merkel will help us are deluded. As things stand, Dublin will do nothing, hoping we offer more, then at the end of this week they may say ‘OK, let’s do a Northern Ireland only backstop with a time limit’, which is what various players have been hinting at, then we’ll say No, and that will probably be the end.

 

Varadkar thinks that either there will be a referendum or we win a majority but we will just put this offer back on the table so he thinks he can’t lose by refusing to compromise now. Given his assumptions, Varadkar’s behaviour is arguably rational but his assumptions are, I think, false. Ireland and Brussels listen to all the people who lost the referendum, they don’t listen to those who won the referendum and they don’t understand the electoral dynamics here.

If this deal dies in the next few days, then it won’t be revived. To marginalise the Brexit Party, we will have to fight the election on the basis of ‘no more delays, get Brexit done immediately’. They thought that if May went then Brexit would get softer. It seems few have learned from this mistake. They think we’re bluffing and there’s nothing we can do about that, not least given the way May and Hammond constantly talked tough then folded.

So, if talks go nowhere this week, the next phase will require us to set out our view on the Surrender Act. The Act imposes narrow duties. Our legal advice is clear that we can do all sorts of things to scupper delay which for obvious reasons we aren’t going into details about. Different lawyers see the “frustration principle” very differently especially on a case like this where there is no precedent for primary legislation directing how the PM conducts international discussions.

We will make clear privately and publicly that countries which oppose delay will go the front of the queue for future cooperation — cooperation on things both within and outside EU competences. Those who support  delay will go to the bottom of the queue. [This source also made clear that defence and security cooperation will inevitably be affected if the EU tries to keep Britain in against the will of its government] Supporting delay will be seen by this government as hostile interference in domestic politics, and over half of the public will agree with us.

We will also make clear that this government will not negotiate further so any delay would be totally pointless.  They think now that if there is another delay we will keep coming back with new proposals. This won’t happen. We’ll either leave with no deal on 31 October or there will be an election and then we will leave with no deal.

‘When they say ‘so what is the point of delay?’, we will say “This is not our delay, the government is not asking for a delay — Parliament is sending you a letter and Parliament is asking for a delay but official government policy remains that delay is an atrocious idea that everyone should dismiss. Any delay will in effect be negotiated between you, Parliament, and the courts — we will wash our hands of it, we won’t engage in further talks, we obviously won’t given any undertakings about cooperative behaviour, everything to do with ‘duty of sincere cooperation’ will be in the toilet, we will focus on winning the election on a manifesto of immediately revoking the entire EU legal order without further talks, and then we will leave. Those who supported delay will face the inevitable consequences of being seen to interfere in domestic politics in a deeply unpopular way by colluding with a Parliament that is as popular as the clap.

Those who pushed the Benn Act intended to sabotage a deal and they’ve probably succeeded. So the main effect of it will probably be to help us win an election by uniting the leave vote and then a no deal Brexit. History is full of such ironies and tragedies.’

Source spectaor 

 

Game on

[Basil B]

17 minutes ago, webfact said:

Brexit talks are now reaching a critical moment, a British spokesman said in Brussels, where Johnson's Brexit negotiator David Frost was in meetings with EU officials.

Did he have the two Ronnies and John Cleese with him?

The Frost Report 1966-7

[Baerboxer]

11 hours ago, englishoak said:

Earlier today, I sent a message to a contact in Number 10 asking them how the Brexit talks were going. They sent a long reply which I think gives a pretty clear sense of where they think things are.

So, in the interest of trying to let people understand where Number 10 reckon the negotiations are, here is their response:

 

‘The negotiations will probably end this week. Varadkar doesn’t want to negotiate. Varadkar was keen on talking before the Benn Act when he thought that the choice would be ‘new deal or no deal’. Since the Benn Act passed he has gone very cold and in the last week the official channels and the backchannels have also gone cold. Varadkar has also gone back on his commitments — he said if we moved on manufactured goods then he would also move but instead he just attacked us publicly. It’s clear he wants to gamble on a second referendum and that he’s encouraging Barnier to stick to the line that the UK cannot leave the EU without leaving Northern Ireland behind.

There are quite a few people in Paris and Berlin who would like to discuss our offer but Merkel and Macron won’t push Barnier unless Ireland says it wants to negotiate. Those who think Merkel will help us are deluded. As things stand, Dublin will do nothing, hoping we offer more, then at the end of this week they may say ‘OK, let’s do a Northern Ireland only backstop with a time limit’, which is what various players have been hinting at, then we’ll say No, and that will probably be the end.

 

Varadkar thinks that either there will be a referendum or we win a majority but we will just put this offer back on the table so he thinks he can’t lose by refusing to compromise now. Given his assumptions, Varadkar’s behaviour is arguably rational but his assumptions are, I think, false. Ireland and Brussels listen to all the people who lost the referendum, they don’t listen to those who won the referendum and they don’t understand the electoral dynamics here.

If this deal dies in the next few days, then it won’t be revived. To marginalise the Brexit Party, we will have to fight the election on the basis of ‘no more delays, get Brexit done immediately’. They thought that if May went then Brexit would get softer. It seems few have learned from this mistake. They think we’re bluffing and there’s nothing we can do about that, not least given the way May and Hammond constantly talked tough then folded.

So, if talks go nowhere this week, the next phase will require us to set out our view on the Surrender Act. The Act imposes narrow duties. Our legal advice is clear that we can do all sorts of things to scupper delay which for obvious reasons we aren’t going into details about. Different lawyers see the “frustration principle” very differently especially on a case like this where there is no precedent for primary legislation directing how the PM conducts international discussions.

We will make clear privately and publicly that countries which oppose delay will go the front of the queue for future cooperation — cooperation on things both within and outside EU competences. Those who support  delay will go to the bottom of the queue. [This source also made clear that defence and security cooperation will inevitably be affected if the EU tries to keep Britain in against the will of its government] Supporting delay will be seen by this government as hostile interference in domestic politics, and over half of the public will agree with us.

We will also make clear that this government will not negotiate further so any delay would be totally pointless.  They think now that if there is another delay we will keep coming back with new proposals. This won’t happen. We’ll either leave with no deal on 31 October or there will be an election and then we will leave with no deal.

‘When they say ‘so what is the point of delay?’, we will say “This is not our delay, the government is not asking for a delay — Parliament is sending you a letter and Parliament is asking for a delay but official government policy remains that delay is an atrocious idea that everyone should dismiss. Any delay will in effect be negotiated between you, Parliament, and the courts — we will wash our hands of it, we won’t engage in further talks, we obviously won’t given any undertakings about cooperative behaviour, everything to do with ‘duty of sincere cooperation’ will be in the toilet, we will focus on winning the election on a manifesto of immediately revoking the entire EU legal order without further talks, and then we will leave. Those who supported delay will face the inevitable consequences of being seen to interfere in domestic politics in a deeply unpopular way by colluding with a Parliament that is as popular as the clap.

Those who pushed the Benn Act intended to sabotage a deal and they’ve probably succeeded. So the main effect of it will probably be to help us win an election by uniting the leave vote and then a no deal Brexit. History is full of such ironies and tragedies.’

Source spectaor 

 

Game on

 

Interesting. Thanks for posting. I saw a comment from Rudd who said she thought the 'source" in number 10 was Cummings for this.

 

Easy to focus on one side, the UK side and criticize. But there are 27 member states, all putting their heads together; and all wanting what's best for themselves first. And then the self appointed leaders - Merkel and Macron wanting what's best for them with Varadkar also wanting what's best for himself.

 

No wonder Tusk is getting frustrated. He assumed they'd got a done deal with May! 

 

Negotiations under May, Davies, Hammond etc were handled very badly. It seems both sides haven't learned any lessons from that. 

 

From the outset of dopey Dave's ill conceived referendum aimed purely at spiking anti EU factions in the Tories and the rise of UKIP, it was never gonna end well.

 

Now it's looking bad for the UK, EU as a whole, Ireland and Germany in particular. France won't care because they like cutting their nose off to spite their face - as long as someone else pays for the surgery!

 

Bet old Vlad's having a great laugh!

[dunroaming]

34 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Easy to focus on one side, the UK side and criticize. But there are 27 member states, all putting their heads together; and all wanting what's best for themselves first. And then the self appointed leaders - Merkel and Macron wanting what's best for them with Varadkar also wanting what's best for himself.

Yes indeed.  It's only natural for all parties to pitch for what they think will be the best outcome for them.  The problem with us Brits is that half of us want one result and the other half want a different one.  And of course both sides think they are in the right, and they are, for what they, personally want.  

 

For the politicians it is all a game, a power game between themselves and they couldn't give a hoot for the general public.

[brucec64]

11 hours ago, englishoak said:

Earlier today, I sent a message to a contact in Number 10 asking them how the Brexit talks were going. They sent a long reply which I think gives a pretty clear sense of where they think things are.

So, in the interest of trying to let people understand where Number 10 reckon the negotiations are, here is their response:

 

‘The negotiations will probably end this week. Varadkar doesn’t want to negotiate. Varadkar was keen on talking before the Benn Act when he thought that the choice would be ‘new deal or no deal’. Since the Benn Act passed he has gone very cold and in the last week the official channels and the backchannels have also gone cold. Varadkar has also gone back on his commitments — he said if we moved on manufactured goods then he would also move but instead he just attacked us publicly. It’s clear he wants to gamble on a second referendum and that he’s encouraging Barnier to stick to the line that the UK cannot leave the EU without leaving Northern Ireland behind.

There are quite a few people in Paris and Berlin who would like to discuss our offer but Merkel and Macron won’t push Barnier unless Ireland says it wants to negotiate. Those who think Merkel will help us are deluded. As things stand, Dublin will do nothing, hoping we offer more, then at the end of this week they may say ‘OK, let’s do a Northern Ireland only backstop with a time limit’, which is what various players have been hinting at, then we’ll say No, and that will probably be the end.

 

Varadkar thinks that either there will be a referendum or we win a majority but we will just put this offer back on the table so he thinks he can’t lose by refusing to compromise now. Given his assumptions, Varadkar’s behaviour is arguably rational but his assumptions are, I think, false. Ireland and Brussels listen to all the people who lost the referendum, they don’t listen to those who won the referendum and they don’t understand the electoral dynamics here.

If this deal dies in the next few days, then it won’t be revived. To marginalise the Brexit Party, we will have to fight the election on the basis of ‘no more delays, get Brexit done immediately’. They thought that if May went then Brexit would get softer. It seems few have learned from this mistake. They think we’re bluffing and there’s nothing we can do about that, not least given the way May and Hammond constantly talked tough then folded.

So, if talks go nowhere this week, the next phase will require us to set out our view on the Surrender Act. The Act imposes narrow duties. Our legal advice is clear that we can do all sorts of things to scupper delay which for obvious reasons we aren’t going into details about. Different lawyers see the “frustration principle” very differently especially on a case like this where there is no precedent for primary legislation directing how the PM conducts international discussions.

We will make clear privately and publicly that countries which oppose delay will go the front of the queue for future cooperation — cooperation on things both within and outside EU competences. Those who support  delay will go to the bottom of the queue. [This source also made clear that defence and security cooperation will inevitably be affected if the EU tries to keep Britain in against the will of its government] Supporting delay will be seen by this government as hostile interference in domestic politics, and over half of the public will agree with us.

We will also make clear that this government will not negotiate further so any delay would be totally pointless.  They think now that if there is another delay we will keep coming back with new proposals. This won’t happen. We’ll either leave with no deal on 31 October or there will be an election and then we will leave with no deal.

‘When they say ‘so what is the point of delay?’, we will say “This is not our delay, the government is not asking for a delay — Parliament is sending you a letter and Parliament is asking for a delay but official government policy remains that delay is an atrocious idea that everyone should dismiss. Any delay will in effect be negotiated between you, Parliament, and the courts — we will wash our hands of it, we won’t engage in further talks, we obviously won’t given any undertakings about cooperative behaviour, everything to do with ‘duty of sincere cooperation’ will be in the toilet, we will focus on winning the election on a manifesto of immediately revoking the entire EU legal order without further talks, and then we will leave. Those who supported delay will face the inevitable consequences of being seen to interfere in domestic politics in a deeply unpopular way by colluding with a Parliament that is as popular as the clap.

Those who pushed the Benn Act intended to sabotage a deal and they’ve probably succeeded. So the main effect of it will probably be to help us win an election by uniting the leave vote and then a no deal Brexit. History is full of such ironies and tragedies.’

Source spectaor 

 

Game on

 

Great contact. This is the same <deleted> that was leaked. It is exactly the blame game that the OP was referring to.



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[SheungWan]

My contact in No. 10 [emoji1782][emoji1782][emoji1782]

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[SheungWan]

Tory Govt. By Appointment To The DUP. [emoji1782]

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[Pedrogaz]

Personally I fully support Boris in this. He may be a clown on some issues but he is right on this. He needs to play hardball. His threat to veto the upcoming 7 year budget is great....

The EU have negotiated in bad faith. Our MPs have turned the deal down 3 times. They need to come to the party and understand that their hard line will not stand. 

The clowns in Parliament who have done nothing for 3 years and are now panicking that Brexit might actually happen, also need to wake up and see that voting everything down and offering no solutions is no longer an option. We need unity, not party politics as usual. Labour should come to the party and accept that there is a mandate for Brexit. They will be creamed in an election of they don't accept this.

May was totally in error taking no deal off the table. In any negotiation you never take your most important leverage point off the table at the outset of the negotiations.....it is asinine....and our opposition as asinine for continuing to insist on it. The EU took advantage of May's stupidity and gave us a truly awful deal which is expensive, ties us forever to the EU rules and regulations and gives us no say. If we do a no deal, Britain can do what it likes with the backstop and Leo Varadkar can go pound sand. When push comes to shove he is going to want a deal that gives him some say in the issue. He doesn't want Stormont to have the final say, as they will put a hard border in.

[MarineEquine]

This is the attitude that the government should have taken 3 years ago but better late than never. 

[DannyCarlton]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

"Boris Johnson, what's at stake is not winning some stupid blame game," European Council President Tusk said on Twitter.

 

Johnson is playing the "blame game" as pointed out by several posters, including myself, in recent weeks. Letter is produced purely for his fanboy base. Anyone outside that demographic just laughs at it.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

 

Johnson is playing the "blame game" as pointed out by several posters, including myself, in recent weeks. Letter is produced purely for his fanboy base. Anyone outside that demographic just laughs at it.

"....as pointed out by several posters, including myself"......

 

That's funny.....????

[Thingamabob]

A very fair offer from Boris, however nothing will ever be acceptable to the EU. Their biggest fear is not that Britain will leave, but that it will do so successfully. Just walk, no deal.

[puipuitom]

In Dec 2013 Cameron already came with the referendum idea. Nearly 6 long tears the British could prepare on.. what if.. then next... Till now.. NOTHING done.

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

A very fair offer from Boris, however nothing will ever be acceptable to the EU. Their biggest fear is not that Britain will leave, but that it will do so successfully. Just walk, no deal.

ONLY the Brexiteers beleive this. All others see only big problems, especially a poor UK, which.. just like in the 70-s the then EEC has to get out of misery.

[MarineEquine]

2 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

 

Johnson is playing the "blame game" as pointed out by several posters, including myself, in recent weeks. Letter is produced purely for his fanboy base. Anyone outside that demographic just laughs at it.

I have been anti-Tory all my adult life so definitely not one of his "fan boy base." For the first time I find myself supporting the Conservative Party and I know that I am not alone. 

[Pique Dard]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

LONDON/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union accused Britain of playing a "stupid blame game"

i fully agree, deciding to leave the eu was epidermal. farage and his peers didn't consider the feasibility of their idea before the referendum, indeed.

[pedro01]

"The European Union accused Britain of playing a "stupid blame game""

 

This made me laugh out loud. 

 

Isn't accusing someone playing a blame game?

[Dumbastheycome]

Interesting.

Verifiable? It reads like nothing more than an opinion rather than a realistic assessment of current situation.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Interesting.

Verifiable? It reads like nothing more than an opinion rather than a realistic assessment of current situation.

Judging by the language used, obviously a fake quote.....unless englishoak's contact is one of the No:10 cleaning staff.

[Loiner]

Good to see that both the EU and Remainers have now indirectly acknowledged that we will be out imminently and No Deal.

What they are doing now is preparing their next round of wails and recriminations for when we are out. Who cares about ‘blame’? We will be free of both the EU and those homegrown Surrender Monkeys who decry the UK.

Will they be so vociferous when it’s down to the brass tacks of Trade Deals? Probably not, they’ll be on the climate hysteria bandwagon; or equality for black lesbian moslem dwarfs or some such.


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[Parsve]

Does anyone know where the ditch where BJ is supposed to be dead is located? Not that I care, just curious.

[dabhand]

Seems the use of EUSSR as an analogy for the EU may be a bit too close to the truth.....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/09/european-parliament-magazine-filled-with-pro-russia-content

 

 

[JulesMad]

UK wants to leave EU. How can EU be blamed for (any) stupidity of UK?

 

[englishoak]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Judging by the language used, obviously a fake quote.....unless englishoak's contact is one of the No:10 cleaning staff.

The whole thing comes direct from the Spectator, only part thats mine is "Game On" at the end.

 

Interestingly No 10 have not refuted it and its one heck of a long statement to just "make up" also the media has been VERY quiet about it in the full context, id conclude that its real, as is the leak about Merkles stance on N Ireland must stay in full. 

 

I dont need to make up or fake anything, the media do plenty of that, I posted it so you can judge for yourself what the spectator is making up or not. 

 

It looks like to me the answer is right there and given plenty of retainers and i suspect the EU a bucket of cold water in the face...thats why the media is being quiet about the whole reply and your just getting bits, some of the words used are the strongest youll see so far about foreign powers meddling in domestic business of the UK,   couple that with some MPs working with said foreign powers to undermine the country being investigated and if found to be the case thats treason. Under those conditions there is much a gov can do including ripping up agreements. 

 

Things just got real, the price to leave is N Ireland and break up of the UK, as ive said before.. That wouldnt bother me but it would bother unionists, that is the EUs plan B imo... plan A was to use N Ireland to keep the UK in believing we would not let it go.... Boris along with the DUP agreeing to alignment and 4 year reviews virtually gave that option to unify Ireland but Merkle and the EU want plan A so are poo pooing B for now.... I still think it will be plan B at the last minute.... plan C which is leaving with no deal id prefer but thats not likely atm imo. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by englishoak

[RuamRudy]

The whole thing comes direct from the Spectator, only part thats mine is "Game On" at the end.
 
Interestingly No 10 have not refuted it and its one heck of a long statement to just "make up" also the media has been VERY quiet about it in the full context, id conclude that its real, as is the leak about Merkles stance on N Ireland must stay in full. 
 
I dont need to make up or fake anything, the media do plenty of that, I posted it so you can judge for yourself what the spectator is making up or not. 
 
It looks like to me the answer is right there and given plenty of retainers and i suspect the EU a bucket of cold water in the face...thats why the media is being quiet about the whole reply and your just getting bits, some of the words used are the strongest youll see so far about foreign powers meddling in domestic business of the UK,   couple that with some MPs working with said foreign powers to undermine the country being investigated and if found to be the case thats treason. Under those conditions there is much a gov can do including ripping up agreements. 
 
Things just got real, the price to leave is N Ireland and break up of the UK, as ive said before.. That wouldnt bother me but it would bother unionists, that is the EUs plan B imo... plan A was to use N Ireland to keep the UK in believing we would not let it go.... Boris along with the DUP agreeing to alignment and 4 year reviews virtually gave that option to unify Ireland but Merkle and the EU want plan A so are poo pooing B for now.... I still think it will be plan B at the last minute.... plan C which is leaving with no deal id prefer but thats not likely atm imo. 

The Spectator, the hard right magazine that the PM previously worked for; I don't believe that his serial lies led to him being sacked from there - I guess they are comfortable with his constant dishonesty, and therefore a trusted source for the spreading of disinformation designed to imply that the EU is playing games, rather than our effete, corrupt and truly degenerate government. Never has the term kakistocracy been more applicable than to this current shower of utter filth.

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[beautifulthailand99]

12 hours ago, englishoak said:

Earlier today, I sent a message to a contact in Number 10 asking them how the Brexit talks were going. They sent a long reply which I think gives a pretty clear sense of where they think things are.

So, in the interest of trying to let people understand where Number 10 reckon the negotiations are, here is their response:

 

‘The negotiations will probably end this week. Varadkar doesn’t want to negotiate. Varadkar was keen on talking before the Benn Act when he thought that the choice would be ‘new deal or no deal’. Since the Benn Act passed he has gone very cold and in the last week the official channels and the backchannels have also gone cold. Varadkar has also gone back on his commitments — he said if we moved on manufactured goods then he would also move but instead he just attacked us publicly. It’s clear he wants to gamble on a second referendum and that he’s encouraging Barnier to stick to the line that the UK cannot leave the EU without leaving Northern Ireland behind.

There are quite a few people in Paris and Berlin who would like to discuss our offer but Merkel and Macron won’t push Barnier unless Ireland says it wants to negotiate. Those who think Merkel will help us are deluded. As things stand, Dublin will do nothing, hoping we offer more, then at the end of this week they may say ‘OK, let’s do a Northern Ireland only backstop with a time limit’, which is what various players have been hinting at, then we’ll say No, and that will probably be the end.

 

Varadkar thinks that either there will be a referendum or we win a majority but we will just put this offer back on the table so he thinks he can’t lose by refusing to compromise now. Given his assumptions, Varadkar’s behaviour is arguably rational but his assumptions are, I think, false. Ireland and Brussels listen to all the people who lost the referendum, they don’t listen to those who won the referendum and they don’t understand the electoral dynamics here.

If this deal dies in the next few days, then it won’t be revived. To marginalise the Brexit Party, we will have to fight the election on the basis of ‘no more delays, get Brexit done immediately’. They thought that if May went then Brexit would get softer. It seems few have learned from this mistake. They think we’re bluffing and there’s nothing we can do about that, not least given the way May and Hammond constantly talked tough then folded.

So, if talks go nowhere this week, the next phase will require us to set out our view on the Surrender Act. The Act imposes narrow duties. Our legal advice is clear that we can do all sorts of things to scupper delay which for obvious reasons we aren’t going into details about. Different lawyers see the “frustration principle” very differently especially on a case like this where there is no precedent for primary legislation directing how the PM conducts international discussions.

We will make clear privately and publicly that countries which oppose delay will go the front of the queue for future cooperation — cooperation on things both within and outside EU competences. Those who support  delay will go to the bottom of the queue. [This source also made clear that defence and security cooperation will inevitably be affected if the EU tries to keep Britain in against the will of its government] Supporting delay will be seen by this government as hostile interference in domestic politics, and over half of the public will agree with us.

We will also make clear that this government will not negotiate further so any delay would be totally pointless.  They think now that if there is another delay we will keep coming back with new proposals. This won’t happen. We’ll either leave with no deal on 31 October or there will be an election and then we will leave with no deal.

‘When they say ‘so what is the point of delay?’, we will say “This is not our delay, the government is not asking for a delay — Parliament is sending you a letter and Parliament is asking for a delay but official government policy remains that delay is an atrocious idea that everyone should dismiss. Any delay will in effect be negotiated between you, Parliament, and the courts — we will wash our hands of it, we won’t engage in further talks, we obviously won’t given any undertakings about cooperative behaviour, everything to do with ‘duty of sincere cooperation’ will be in the toilet, we will focus on winning the election on a manifesto of immediately revoking the entire EU legal order without further talks, and then we will leave. Those who supported delay will face the inevitable consequences of being seen to interfere in domestic politics in a deeply unpopular way by colluding with a Parliament that is as popular as the clap.

Those who pushed the Benn Act intended to sabotage a deal and they’ve probably succeeded. So the main effect of it will probably be to help us win an election by uniting the leave vote and then a no deal Brexit. History is full of such ironies and tragedies.’

Source spectaor 

 

Game on

No Deal  on 31st October - crash out no ifs , no buts. 

[englishoak]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The Spectator, the hard right magazine that the PM previously worked for; I don't believe that his serial lies led to him being sacked from there - I guess they are comfortable with his constant dishonesty, and therefore a trusted source for the spreading of disinformation designed to imply that the EU is playing games, rather than our effete, corrupt and truly degenerate government. Never has the term kakistocracy been more applicable than to this current shower of utter filth.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Oh for gods sake its not a hard right anything, yes Boris worked there and thats why i believe it was the chosen outlet and makes it likely its closer to the wanted narrative than simply made up.

 

You seem rather upset, This dystopian rubbish about my side all good other side all bad is moronic take a chill pill and accept whilst the EU are playing for keeps the UK must and should be expected to do the same. 

 

Try and understand behind the Drama of the media and public circus there are agendas on  global scale and billions if not trillions to play for. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by englishoak

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Good to see that both the EU and Remainers have now indirectly acknowledged that we will be out imminently and No Deal.

What they are doing now is preparing their next round of wails and recriminations for when we are out. Who cares about ‘blame’? We will be free of both the EU and those homegrown Surrender Monkeys who decry the UK.

Will they be so vociferous when it’s down to the brass tacks of Trade Deals? Probably not, they’ll be on the climate hysteria bandwagon; or equality for black lesbian moslem dwarfs or some such.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Good I'm 100% with you let's bring this to a head once and for effiong all.

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Good I'm 100% with you let's bring this to a head once and for effiong all.

 

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Good I'm 100% with you let's bring this to a head once and for effiong all.

 

+1