Compulsory Health insurance for 0-A visa applicants effective 31st October

[uncleeagle]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

If this is the key document, then it says nothing about when the O A visa was issued, it just says an alien entering under O A visa will need insurance from 31st October.

 

It also says nothing about reentry permits and extensions. based on O A.

 

At this point I see no reason to believe an IO would not be able to justify denial of entry for an existing O A and/or extension, based on claimed inadequate insurance.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by uncleeagle

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, uncleeagle said:

If this is the key document, then it says nothing about when the O A visa was issued, it just says an alien entering under O A visa will need insurance from 31st October.

 

It also says nothing about reentry permits and extensions. based on O A.

 

At this point I see no reason to believe an IO would not be able to justify denial of entry for an existing O A and/or extension, based on claimed inadequate insurance.

 

 

That's pretty much the way I read it....

 

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, uncleeagle said:

At this point I see no reason to believe an IO would not be able to justify denial of entry for an existing O A and/or extension, based on claimed inadequate insurance.

You have a point wrt O-A Visa Entry, after Oct 31st. But a person on an Extension would be using a re-entry permit. If that Permit is based on an extension for retirement or marriage, how is it associated with an O-A?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

50 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Which comments are you referring to?

 

This one, where the deputy public health minister in the 2nd paragraph below talks first about the O-A visa population, and then in the next/3rd pgh starts talking about some OTHER group of "elderly tourists" the new rule also will be applied to...

 

Quote

 

The Cabinet approved in April a requirement for tourists to be covered by health insurance. The mandatory measure will come into effect on October 31 and the government is now ready to provide the service, he said.

 

It will be applied to immigrants applying for Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” , who will stay in the country for no more than one year.

 

The pilot project will also be applied to elderly tourists seeking a longer stay in the country, but no more than a year, he said.

 

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1127990-mandatory-health-insurance-due-for-long-stay-tourists/

 

If O-A visa holders are the first group, then who exactly are the other group of "elderly tourists" the new rule "will also be applied to"?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You have a point wrt O-A Visa Entry, after Oct 31st. But a person on an Extension would be using a re-entry permit. If that Permit is based on an extension for retirement or marriage, how is it associated with an O-A?

 

With extensions, no matter what kind you have or how many annual ones you've done along the way, they always typically are tied back to some original visa that predated the extensions.  That's how any kind of extension today is potentially linked back to some prior visa, in this case, O-A visas.

 

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

If you have an O-A Visa and leave Thailand and re-enter before the 12 months is up, you get an Extension of your Permission to Stay in Thailand (Automatically). 

No you don't Bob.

It's not a n extension, it's a 1 year entry from a valid Non O-A Visa.

 

A multi entry Non Imm O-A Visa. (Long stay). Valid 1 year. Can be issued to those who are over 50 who intend to remain in Thailand for long periods. This Visa allows unlimited 1 year entries before the ‘enter before’ date of the Visa, at which point this Visa is ‘used’.

If you leave and re-enter just before the ‘enter before’ date of this Visa type you are granted another 1 year permission to stay. You will however require a re-entry permit if you intend to leave and re-enter Thailand during this 2nd year permission to stay period.

This is because when the Visa expires on the ‘enter before’ date, so does the ME facility which is only valid for the duration of the Visas validity (1 year)

If used correctly, you can stay in Thailand for almost 24 months with this Visa type.

 

Visa validity is the period during which a visa can be used to enter Thailand.

The period of stay is granted by an immigration officer upon arrival at the port of entry and in accordance with the type of visa.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

That's how any kind of extension today is potentially linked back to some prior visa, in this case, O-A visas.

 

Well mine links back to a Non-Imm-O not an O-A, so my extension should not bear insurance requirement. It is unlikely that longer term retirees or marriage guys will be discriminated based on original Non-Imm-O subcategory.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Well mine links back to a Non-Imm-O not an O-A, so my extension should not bear insurance requirement. It is unlikely that longer term retirees or marriage guys will be discriminated based on original Non-Imm-O subcategory.

 

And my retirement extensions date back to an original B (business) visa, so I'd be in the same boat...

 

UNLESS Immigration simply starts applying the new rule against anyone 50 and over, or, against anyone with a retirement extension, regardless of what kind of actual visa predated it.

 

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

With extensions, no matter what kind you have or how many annual ones you've done along the way, they always typically are tied back to some original visa that predated the extensions.  That's how any kind of extension today is potentially linked back to some prior visa, in this case, O-A visas.

 

Agreed, but the order only pertains to those entering on a valid Non O-A Visa from 31/10.

 

If you have an extension, your Visa has already expired and you enter on a re-entry permit which will only grant you permission of stay up to your extension expiry date, not the 1 year if entering on a valid O-A Visa.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Tanoshi

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

Agreed, but the order only pertains to those entering on a valid Non O-A Visa from 31/10.

 

If you have an extension, your Visa has already expired and you enter on a re-entry permit which will only grant you permission of stay up to your extension expiry date, not the 1 year if entering on a valid Visa.

 

Agreed, except for the oddity that they've included the insurance requirement language for O-A visa holders within the set of requirements for retirement extensions..... which at least suggests they're intending to apply the requirement against retirement extension holders who previously have had O-As.

 

[Exploring Thailand]

20 minutes ago, uncleeagle said:

If this is the key document, then it says nothing about when the O A visa was issued, it just says an alien entering under O A visa will need insurance from 31st October.

 

It also says nothing about reentry permits and extensions. based on O A.

 

At this point I see no reason to believe an IO would not be able to justify denial of entry for an existing O A and/or extension, based on claimed inadequate insurance.

 

 

13 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's pretty much the way I read it....

 

 

9 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You have a point wrt O-A Visa Entry, after Oct 31st. But a person on an Extension would be using a re-entry permit. If that Permit is based on an extension for retirement or marriage, how is it associated with an O-A?

 

 

It's not particularly well worded, but the way people are reading this is that it is intended for people who are applying for a new O-A visa. You have to provide proof of insurance at the time you apply for the visa. The consulates have instructions to check the insurance meets the requirements and annotate the applicant's passport accordingly. The IO looks for the annotation on entry. It's not clear what will happen if you subsequently get a new insurance and exit/reenter.

[uncleeagle]

26 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

 

 

 

 

It's not particularly well worded, but the way people are reading this is that it is intended for people who are applying for a new O-A visa. You have to provide proof of insurance at the time you apply for the visa. The consulates have instructions to check the insurance meets the requirements and annotate the applicant's passport accordingly. The IO looks for the annotation on entry. It's not clear what will happen if you subsequently get a new insurance and exit/reenter.

I would like you to be right, but reading the rest of the document defines what the IO will be looking for when the visa holder enters the country. So my take is that this would apply to new visa applications as well as any O A holder or holder of an associated extension. They dont list every combination of possibilities, but that just means we are once again going to be at the mercy of IO mood and interpretation and i do not intend to risk being detained and deported.

[Exploring Thailand]

3 minutes ago, uncleeagle said:

They dont list every combination of possibilities, but that just means we are once again going to be at the mercy of IO mood and interpretation and i do not intend to risk being detained and deported.

Yep. As always.  

 

I think the idea is that the IO will be instructed to check O-A visas issued on or after 31st Oct for an annotation indicating that the passport holder has insurance. The passport holder's A-O visa will be valid until the insurance expires (or the visa expires). 

 

Regarding the renewal of the insurance to get a second year, I guess they will require the passport holder go to a local Immigration Office and get the passport updated with the new insurance details.

[Lumbini]

Will this new law possibly stop someone from coming back into Thailand who flew out for a vacation with a valid retirement visa and valid re-entry permit if they arrive after the 31st of October without proof of health insurance and the 20,000 baht in hand that was also mentioned to have if one wanted to be guaranteed re entry ? The requirements for being here along with the exchange rate changes that keep making the Thai baht more expensive to buy seems like it will possibly discourage many from making Thailand their home ?

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

Will this new law possibly stop someone from coming in to Thailand who flew out for a vacation with a valid retirement visa and valid re-entry permit if they arrive after the 31st if October without proof of insurance as the 20,000 baht in hand that was also mentioned to have if one wanted to be guaranteed re entry ?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Define 'Retirement Visa'

 

If you are entering on a re-entry permit then you certainly don't have a valid Visa.

[uncleeagle]

13 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

Will this new law possibly stop someone from coming back into Thailand who flew out for a vacation with a valid retirement visa and valid re-entry permit if they arrive after the 31st of October without proof of health insurance and the 20,000 baht in hand that was also mentioned to have if one wanted to be guaranteed re entry ? The requirements for being here along with the exchange rate changes that keep making the Thai baht more expensive to buy seems like it will possibly discourage many from making Thailand their home ?

 

 

 

Yes, it looks like that to me

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Agreed, except for the oddity that they've included the insurance requirement language for O-A visa holders within the set of requirements for retirement extensions..... which at least suggests they're intending to apply the requirement against retirement extension holders who previously have had O-As.

 

That's how I read it in it's current state.

A lot of expats will be going out for an 'O' in that scenario.

 

In fact, better to get an 'O' now if intending to enter after 31/10.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Lumbini]

Will this new law possibly stop someone from coming back into Thailand who flew out for a vacation with a valid retirement visa and valid re-entry permit if they arrive after the 31st of October without proof of health insurance and the 20,000 baht in hand that was also mentioned to have if one wanted to be guaranteed re entry ? The requirements for being here along with the exchange rate changes that keep making the Thai baht more expensive to buy seems like it will possibly discourage many from making Thailand their home ?

 

 

 

I am referring to the Re-Entry Permit I paid 1000 baht for when I got my retirement extension so I could travel out of the country and come back with all my current visa’s valid

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/re-entry-permit-thailand.php

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

I am referring to the Re-Entry Permit I paid 1000 baht for when I got my retirement extension so I could travel out of the country and come back with all my current visa’s valid

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/re-entry-permit-thailand.php

 

 

 

Your Visa isn't valid anymore, you extended your permission of stay, not the Visa.

The re-entry permit keeps any remaining permission of stay valid on re-entry.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

I am referring to the Re-Entry Permit I paid 1000 baht for when I got my retirement extension so I could travel out of the country and come back with all my current visa’s valid

 

I think the question at this point is, what type was your last actual visa before you switched to getting extensions of stay?

 

If it was an O-A visa, you MIGHT at this point get hit with the insurance requirement post Oct. 31... meaning they would hit people on retirement extensions today who previously had O-A visas. That's not certain, but is looking likely.

 

If it was some other type of visa like an O or a B or an ED, then at this point, no sign those are going to be targeted, at least, not yet.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Lumbini]

 

I think the question at this point is, what type was your last actual visa before you switched to getting extensions of stay?

 

If it was an O-A visa, you MIGHT at this point get hit with the insurance requirement post Oct. 31... meaning they would hit people on retirement extensions today who previously had O-A visas. That's not certain, but is looking likely.

 

If it was some other type of visa like an O or a B or an ED, then at this point, no sign those are going to be targeted, at least, not yet.

 

Retirement extension was done and at the same time bought for 1000 and had added a re-entry permit in case I wanted to leave country for vacation or any reason and re enter keeping my retirement visa extension valid .

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

Retirement extension was done and at the same time bought for 1000 and had added a re-entry permit in case I wanted to leave country for vacation or any reason and re enter keeping my retirement visa extension valid .

 

An extension is not a VISA... What I was asking you was, what kind of VISA did you have prior to getting your first extension of stay based on retirement?

 

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, Lumbini said:

Retirement extension was done and at the same time bought for 1000 and had added a re-entry permit in case I wanted to leave country for vacation or any reason and re enter keeping my retirement visa extension valid .

 

Let me adjust your post.

 

Quote

Retirement extension was done and at the same time bought for 1000 and had added a re-entry permit in case I wanted to leave country for vacation or any reason and re enter keeping my retirement visa extension valid .

 

[Pib]

40 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think the question at this point is, what type was your last actual visa before you switched to getting extensions of stay?

 

If it was an O-A visa, you MIGHT at this point get hit with the insurance requirement post Oct. 31... meaning they would hit people on retirement extensions today who previously had O-A visas. That's not certain, but is looking likely.

 

If it was some other type of visa like an O or a B or an ED, then at this point, no sign those are going to be targeted, at least, not yet.

 

So, let's say you previously started with an O-A visa...and you've had numerous retirement extensions of stay since. 

 

What if when it comes time for your next retirement extension of stay renewal you switch to a "marriage" extension of stay because you have one-each Thai spouse.  Would since you originally started with an OA but switch to a marriage extension of stay still result in the medical insurance requirement?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

So, let's say you previously started with an O-A visa...and you've had numerous retirement extensions of stay since. 

 

What if when it comes time for your next retirement extension of stay renewal you switch to a "marriage" extension of stay because you have one-each Thai spouse.  Would since you originally started with an OA but switch to a marriage extension of stay still result in the medical insurance requirement?

 

Don't think anyone knows for certain at this point.

 

UbonJoe, I know, continues to assert the new insurance requirement will only apply to current and future O-A visa holders after Oct. 31, not those on extensions of stay or anyone else.

 

But there have been a whole series of items in the past day or two at least suggesting they either are going to, or may, extend the insurance requirement more broadly. IF that were to happen, probably the top of that list would be those on current extensions of stay who previously had O-A visas.

 

 

 

[onera1961]

Not really. Getting repeat O A visas has been a work around for providing financials (800K or 65K/month). Now with this requirement the loophole is gone and those bypassing the requirements are upset. Immigrations made changes to the requirements of keeping money in the bank and/or monthly income, when posters here and on youtube started talking about work arounds. If you want to be upset, blame the loudmouths who promote these things. It's clear that immigration watches this site and others. I don't have a problem with immigration staying informed because I always meet the requirement straight up and don't look for work arounds. Easy and the IO are always polite and professional. 

Nothing to be upset. Get an agent for 15K, problem solved. May be cheaper than getting an O-A every two years with re-entry permit, doctors are certificate, FBI report and Visa fees. I think it makes financial sense to pay an agent.

Sent from my Hi9plus using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pib]

What I expect is even converting to a marriage extension of stay vs the retirement extension of stay if the original visa from years ago was a O-A visa that immigration would still require the insurance. 

 

But if they did that then it completely goes against the "current" police order for extensions based on marriage and this most recent from hell police order regarding O-A Visa medical insurance requirements.

[Pib]

Just now, onera1961 said:

Nothing to be upset. Get an agent for 15K, problem solved. May be cheaper than getting an O-A every two years with re-entry permit, doctors are certificate, FBI report and Visa fees. I think it makes financial sense to pay an agent.

Will be interesting how an agent will be able to overcome the insurance requirement without the individual really having insurance.   Of course some agents apparently overcome the income requirement without any problem.  Guess agents will just need to fatten the envelope.

[Pib]

Nong Khai Immigration Office seems to be saying insurance required required if an old, expired O-A visa was the foundation for ensuring retirement extensions of stay.   

 

[Pib]

33 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Don't think anyone knows for certain at this point.

 

UbonJoe, I know, continues to assert the new insurance requirement will only apply to current and future O-A visa holders after Oct. 31, not those on extensions of stay or anyone else.

 

But there have been a whole series of items in the past day or two at least suggesting they either are going to, or may, extend the insurance requirement more broadly. IF that were to happen, probably the top of that list would be those on current extensions of stay who previously had O-A visas.

 

 

 

 

Since the new rules goes into effect 31 Oct 2019 I guess we will be finding out in November for sure based on TV reports from folks with an O-A Visa as the original source for their retirement extension of stay...whether it's for their 1st, 5th, 20th, etc., extension of stay.   

 

But if I just looked at the revised police order section 2.22 In Case of Retirement the first sentence says, "......who has been granted Non Immigrant Visa Class O-A...," then the "has been" part can mean an O-A Visa that has since expired but replaced with annual extensions of stay....maybe many extensions of stay. 

 

The 2.22 paragraph does not say "...has been granted after 31 Oct 2019 a Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A..."  

Like any O-A Visa from the past that formed the foundation for your retirement extensions of stay.   

 

If it turns out to be that way, I'm affected although I'm on my 10th retirement extension of stay which was based on a O-A Visa from 2008.