Compulsory Health insurance for 0-A visa applicants effective 31st October

[Genericnic]

50 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

 

Agreed. The alternatives will be money in the bank or insurance. Everyone over 50 will have to have one or the other.

Or both. TIT

David

 

[Lovethailandelite]

The order quite plainly lays out how second and subsequent entry's will be dealt with. They will run concurrently alongside the Insurance valid till date. You only have 5 months left on a valid insurance, you get stamped in for 5 months. Your Insurance has expired, your not coming in until you have purchased insurance.

 

[Exploring Thailand]

On the face of it, this seems to imply that the O-A can no longer be used for two years. But what happens if you renew your insurance? If you renew your insurance in the eleven month, and exit and return in that month, will you then be granted another year?

[Lovethailandelite]

12 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

On the face of it, this seems to imply that the O-A can no longer be used for two years. But what happens if you renew your insurance? If you renew your insurance in the eleven month, and exit and return in that month, will you then be granted another year?

You will be granted a stay up until the date of expiry of the Insurance certificate

[Exploring Thailand]

Just now, Lovethailandelite said:

You will be granted a stay up until the date of expiry of the Insurance certificate

That's good news.

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Cut out what one says and the meaning cxhanges.

I said it is a risk - after 31st October. Risk.

 

Yeah well so is crossing the street and I will be doing that too!????

You are scaremongering.

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Extension - Your permission to stay is because of Marriage

Retirement.... Extension, not a Visa!!!

Edited October 10, 2019 by jacko45k

[AussieBob18]

57 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yeah well so is crossing the street and I will be doing that too!????

You are scaremongering.

 

55 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Retirement.... Extension, not a Visa!!!

I think it best that we agree to disagree about the implications of this requirement Jacko.  Maybe I am being a bit scary, but I have never said it will definitely be applied to 'Retirement' Extensions - but IMO it will happen. IMO.  

 

You should research what a Visa and an Extension is :  https://www.thaiembassy.com/visa/thaivisa.php

Quote:  You may request for more time for your stay from Thai Immigration. This is called an “extension of stay.” Typically, a short term extension of stay is granted up to 30 days for Tourist Visa or Non-Immigrant Visa. Most people who come to Thailand want to extend stay. They may apply for an extension of stay for one year, but it must be for one of the following purposes: Business, Education, Marriage or Retirement. If you hold a tourist visa, you must first convert to a non-immigrant status before the long term extension of stay.

The relevent Extensions (of Permission to Stay) are for either Retirement or Marriage.  The requirements to get those Extensions in Thailand are the same/similar to those to get the O-A Visa outside Thailand.  Your Permission to Stay in Thailand under an O-A Visa has been 'extended' - and you can do this multiple times. 

 

[jacko45k]

8 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

You should research what a Visa and an Extension

I know only too well, in fact I got an impression you were the one struggling with the difference. I told you I had an Extension and you came back with ...

 

I suspect this will put the O-A into the same 'less than popular' class as the O-X. After Oct 31st it will be messy at the airport, with IOs needing to check for insurance, then even looking as to when that insurance expires, and issuing Permissions to Stay only up to that date. 

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by jacko45k

[AussieBob18]

49 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I suspect this will put the O-A into the same 'less than popular' class as the O-X. After Oct 31st it will be messy at the airport, with IOs needing to check for insurance, then even looking as to when that insurance expires, and issuing Permissions to Stay only up to that date. 

It will be an absolute disaster for people arriving after 31st Oct who have no idea about this requirement as it was not required in their application for an O-A Visa prior to this announcement - and they dont read TV Forums.   It is still not listed on the website of the Aust Thai Embassy site - and no reply to my email yet.

 

I have a friend who lives most of the year in Thailand with his Thai wife and kids on an O-A Visa thatb I helped him get (and Extensions) years ago. He returns for the December to March period - kids grandkids etc etc. He is 81 now - he cant get insurance.  Looks like he will have to apply for a Marriage Visa next time he returns to Australia and then go through those requirements for the next Extension and Permission to Re-enter after 12 months - I am waiting for answers from the Thai Embassy. 

 

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

It will be an absolute disaster for people arriving after 31st Oct who have no idea about this requirement as it was not required in their application for an O-A Visa prior to this announcement - and they dont read TV Forums.   

According to what I read it should not be applied to people arriving with visas issued prior to Oct 31st 2019. Although I believe you made the statement already ' good luck persuading an arrogant IO he might be wrong on that point'! 

 

I see the insurance requirement is already listed on the London Thai Embassy website.

 

Your friend should just continue to do Extensions at Immigration, as no insurance is yet specified.

Edited October 10, 2019 by jacko45k

[lamyai3]

3 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

It will be an absolute disaster for people arriving after 31st Oct who have no idea about this requirement as it was not required in their application for an O-A Visa prior to this announcement - and they dont read TV Forums.   It is still not listed on the website of the Aust Thai Embassy site - and no reply to my email yet.

Quite right, why would anyone on an already issued Non O-A have a clue about this new rule, given it was never mentioned to them at the point of application? The implementation of this has been idiotic - surely an instruction to the embassies changing the requirements for new applications would have been sufficient. In any civilised country they'd be prosecuted for selling a bill of goods if they were to apply this to existing visas that were issued in good faith. 

[lamyai3]

14 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

According to what I read it should not be applied to people arriving with visas issued prior to Oct 31st 2019. Although I believe you made the statement already ' good luck persuading an arrogant IO he might be wrong on that point'! 

The new police order specifies the visa class, but says nothing about dates. This to my mind is the most pertinent issue, how will they deal with people who already have visas issued prior to the rule change? 

[Peterw42]

11 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Not really. Getting repeat O A visas has been a work around for providing financials (800K or 65K/month). Now with this requirement the loophole is gone and those bypassing the requirements are upset. Immigrations made changes to the requirements of keeping money in the bank and/or monthly income, when posters here and on youtube started talking about work arounds. If you want to be upset, blame the loudmouths who promote these things. It's clear that immigration watches this site and others. I don't have a problem with immigration staying informed because I always meet the requirement straight up and don't look for work arounds. Easy and the IO are always polite and professional. 

An OA Visa still has financial requirement, you just show it in home country rather than Thailand. An OA visa isnt issued by immigration so not subject to any Thai immigration requirements.

Not exactly a work around when you need the same or more documents to get an OA, as an in country extension.

If anything, an incountry conversion to an extension is a work around to avoid, medicial, police checks etc.

[Martyp]

13 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

An OA Visa still has financial requirement, you just show it in home country rather than Thailand. An OA visa isnt issued by immigration so not subject to any Thai immigration requirements.

Not exactly a work around when you need the same or more documents to get an OA, as an in country extension.

If anything, an incountry conversion to an extension is a work around to avoid, medicial, police checks etc.

I’ve seen that some people have intense aversion to putting 800,000 baht into a Thai bank. Some want (and need) a better investment return outside Thailand. Others are paranoid of the Thai government and a Banking system. This demographic has some soul searching to contend with now.

[Martyp]

13 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Actually 800K isn't that much. If you are depending on income from that amount you must be pretty strapped for money. If people feel paranoid of the Thai banks and/or government they need to stay home. 

For an OA you only need to show you have the money when applying, but are free to withdrawal. So you could accomplish this without really having the money and you are good to go for up to two years. With the insurance requirement the advantages of OA are gone. Was pretty good for some who were watching every dime for a while, but no more.  

Not only is there the meager income there are the costs of returning home and applying for the visa.

[spambot]

17 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

However, if Spambot is British, as the UK website is now listing insurance as a requirement, it is possible that the application he has saved on the system will be rejected. 

 

I'm in a similar situation to Spambot, but I don't yet have an application saved. I've written to them asking if the requirement is in effect immediately or from 31st Oct.

Yup - I am British - I also wrote to them 48 hrs ago and while I usually get a response same day - Now there is nothing up until now. I am guessing that the customer services team might not know what the answer is yet.

 

When I review the application in the system (few mins ago) I can see that there is no extra insurance being required (below is the last stage for attaching documents scans before applying) - However since this will get reviewed manually before being approved, likely might get rejected - and yet unknown.

 

[ifjsrussell]

For me at least I have no problem at all with purchasing health insurance. If you live here you should have it. I do have it. My issue is being forced to buy very poor value and expensive insurance instead of my good value (same price but comes with 10 million baht cover, not just 400,000 baht). It’s the 40,000 baht outpatient cover that forces up the premium together with forcing insurances that are based on a pool of older people only. It could easily be thought out so much better!

 

Also the lack of clarity regarding second + entries on a existing OA. I got mine in July 19 and have already made two entries.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

[Martyp]

13 minutes ago, ifjsrussell said:

For me at least I have no problem at all with purchasing health insurance. If you live here you should have it. I do have it. My issue is being forced to buy very poor value and expensive insurance instead of my good value (same price but comes with 10 million baht cover, not just 400,000 baht). It’s the 40,000 baht outpatient cover that forces up the premium together with forcing insurances that are based on a pool of older people only. It could easily be thought out so much better!

 

Also the lack of clarity regarding second + entries on a existing OA. I got mine in July 19 and have already made two entries.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

It might be worthwhile to contact agents at some of the insurance companies to see if better, cheaper, more compressive policies would comply. Clearly the IOs at the airport are not going to be scrutinizing insurance policies. There must be some sort of easy to interpret certificate the identifies a policy as having complied with the regulations.

[Exploring Thailand]

50 minutes ago, spambot said:

When I review the application in the system (few mins ago) I can see that there is no extra insurance being required (below is the last stage for attaching documents scans before applying) - However since this will get reviewed manually before being approved, likely might get rejected - and yet unknown.

That's interesting. I'm going to rush things through in case there is a loophole whereby people who have already submitted their application are not required to provide insurance. It's a long-shot, but worth a shot. I'm also hoping that the UK Consulate fall into line with everyone else and don't enforce it until the date stipulated on the Police Order.

[Exploring Thailand]

30 minutes ago, Martyp said:

It might be worthwhile to contact agents at some of the insurance companies to see if better, cheaper, more compressive policies would comply. Clearly the IOs at the airport are not going to be scrutinizing insurance policies. There must be some sort of easy to interpret certificate the identifies a policy as having complied with the regulations.

I've written to Pacific Cross asking them which of their policies can be used to support an O-A application. They have a "Platinum" policy which is designed specifically for O-A visas, but there is a huge discrepancy in the coverage provided by that the coverage provide by their other policies. The other policies do seem to meet to the minimum requirement of 400k + 40k, so I don't see why there is a need for a special high-cost, low-benefit O-A policy.

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

The new police order specifies the visa class, but says nothing about dates.

What part of 'This order is effective as of October 31st, 2019' didn't you understand on order 548/2562 and 300/2562.

[Martyp]

40 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

I've written to Pacific Cross asking them which of their policies can be used to support an O-A application. They have a "Platinum" policy which is designed specifically for O-A visas, but there is a huge discrepancy in the coverage provided by that the coverage provide by their other policies. The other policies do seem to meet to the minimum requirement of 400k + 40k, so I don't see why there is a need for a special high-cost, low-benefit O-A policy.

I see why they made the special policies. Everyone else was doing it and the Thai government wanted them. They had to remain players in the process.

 

I have a 10,000,000 baht Pacific Cross policy which I'm sure meets the minimum requirements. What I have yet to see or hear about is what specifically would you show the IO at the Immigration desk that would demonstrate that you have the insurance? Couldn't you get this for any policy that meets the recommended requirements?

 

I don't want to bother my Pacific Cross agent now. He is probably inundated with emails at this time and, for me, this is a rhetorical question. 

[Sheryl]

15 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

I have probably said enough, but I would like to make one more point.  The statements I have made claiming that this new insurance requirement is likely to apply to all 12 month Visas and all related Extensions of Permission to Stay is because of many reasons - but one in particular.  The likelihood that the Thai Authorities are only going to apply this to those arriving on an O-A Visa and only for their first year in Thailand, is extremely small. 

 

 

The Police Order is very, very clear that this applies only to O-A visa.

 

What they may do in future is anyone's guess, but at present  they are not going to be applying this at point of entry to people coming in on re-entry permits who have extensions of stay  nor require it at Imm offices to receive an  extension of stay of people who entered on other than O-A visa.  They can't.

 

I agree there is room for some uncertainty as to whether they would apply it to people who enter under an O-A and later seek an in-country extension of stay.

 

I have some hope that we will not see this spread to in-country extensions for those of us who are already here anytime soon  for 2 reasons:

 

(1) they just finished revising the financial requirements upward for in-country retirement extensions, and

 

(2) they did not include it in this police order.

 

Having just issued 2 new Police Orders regarding retirement visas and extensions without it.  it seems unlikely they would revise yet again anytime soon. They could have added an insurance clause for people with extensions of stay under non-Os (as opposed to O-A) to the recent revision of requirements of in-country extensions, or to this latest  police order about insurance, but did not.

 

Nonetheless I am giving thought to what I would do if it happens,  as I prefer to plan for contingencies in advance and no doubt many of you are doing the same.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

The new police order specifies the visa class, but says nothing about dates. This to my mind is the most pertinent issue, how will they deal with people who already have visas issued prior to the rule change? 

 

It does mention dates. See provision 2 and last sentence of the order which clearly says Effective 31 October. 

 

However the wording of para 2 could be interpreted to mean that it is effective for anyone entering on an O-A  from 31 October onward rather than anyone whose visa was issued on that date,  and that's a big difference. Have to wait and see how IOs apply this to people newly arriving from the 31st onward.

 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

44 minutes ago, Martyp said:

I see why they made the special policies. Everyone else was doing it and the Thai government wanted them. They had to remain players in the process.

 

Sure, I don't blame them for creating the policy. What I don't understand why it so expensive for the benefits provided. 

 

O-A policy
Premium 58000  Max per disability per year 645,000

Maxima Policy

Premium 68000 Max per disability per year  5,000,000

 

With one of their standard policies a premium of 68000 buys you 5 million coverage. With their special O-A policy 58000 buys you a tenth of that.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Exploring Thailand

[Exploring Thailand]

39 minutes ago, Martyp said:

What I have yet to see or hear about is what specifically would you show the IO at the Immigration desk that would demonstrate that you have the insurance? Couldn't you get this for any policy that meets the recommended requirements?

For the initial issue of the O-A, you send a copy of the insurance documents with your application. If it is approved they annotate your passport to indicate you have the required insurance. They haven't made it clear what happens if you subsequently renew your insurance (e.g. after 11 months) and exit and re-enter. 

[Thaivisa Health Protect]

1 hour ago, Exploring Thailand said:

I've written to Pacific Cross asking them which of their policies can be used to support an O-A application. They have a "Platinum" policy which is designed specifically for O-A visas, but there is a huge discrepancy in the coverage provided by that the coverage provide by their other policies. The other policies do seem to meet to the minimum requirement of 400k + 40k, so I don't see why there is a need for a special high-cost, low-benefit O-A policy.

Hi There,

 

To be clear to all, back in May there was a very particular plan that was approved 6 insurers that could obtain the retirement visa.  Actually 400,000 baht is not sufficient coverage in almost every scenario for anything remotely serious in a private hospital.  In addition there were other plans on the market that were more affordable with better coverage.  

 

Pacific Cross's/Thai Visa Protects historic plans that provided much stronger coverage and value were not approved to obtain the OA or OX visa, this made little sense all round, to both applicants and to the insurer.  Following lobbying by the insurer the historic product suite available is now approved, meaning any plan that meets or exceeds the 400k/40k minimum can obtain the visa.  This is actually a big improvement, as the premiums for the Long Stay plan were skewed do the the age group of applicant.  Therefore one should look at the historic products not the specific Long Stay approved plans.  The Government announcement clearly hasn't addressed this clearly enough, with respect, as the post above shows.

 

For clients that have an existing policy with outpatient removed, PCHI has the option to add 40,000 THB of outpatient back into the plan, subject to underwriting terms, for 10,000 THB additional premium. 

 

Thai Visa Protect can take on new applicants up to 75yrs of age and renew through to 99 yrs.  Some of the approved companies will not take applicants over 60 and some companies terminate the policy at 70yrs of age.  Please feel free to do your own research. 

 

Each policy is fully underwritten allowing for the client to have a transparent understanding of coverage terms on an offer letter terms to purchasing the policy.

 

Thai Visa Protect is able to facilitate all these plans, please feel free to email [email protected].

[uncleeagle]

Now Im even more confused.

 

For an over 50 with an existing O A visa, who has obtained a multi entry extension...

 

If that person is currently abroad and flies back into Thailand after 31 st October, will they be denied entry unless they have obtained a recognised insurance policy while abroad?

 

Or, will their existing multi entry remain valid until its expiry, but their next extension application be subject to the new insurance requirement?

 

Any guesses?

[Exploring Thailand]

19 minutes ago, Thaivisa Health Protect said:

...the historic product suite available is now approved, meaning any plan that meets or exceeds the 400k/40k minimum can obtain the visa.  This is actually a big improvement, as the premiums for the Long Stay plan were skewed do the the age group of applicant.  Therefore one should look at the historic products not the specific Long Stay approved plans. 

Thanks for the reply. That's good news.  Perhaps it would be a good idea to retire the old plans as, as you point out, they are very poor value. 

 

Any British person currently looking at the Thai Consulate website will be directed directly to the those plans.  This page links to the long stay website and that site links directly to your old plans. I understand that things are moving quickly and you have no control over the Thai Consulate websites.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Exploring Thailand