Compulsory Health insurance for 0-A visa applicants effective 31st October

[Lovethailandelite]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Visas cannot be extended.

Your arguing and failing to understand the order in post 449.

[saengd]

2 minutes ago, lupin said:

You missed my point... the married person WHO QUALIFIES FOR HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE FROM HIS WIFE... MUST be on marriage visa or extension based on marriage...

He aint covered if he aint on the marriage visa/extension regardless of if he is married, since the VISA/extension is what permits to have have coverage under his wife's coverage.

I will be extremely surprised if the foreigner must be on a marriage visa in order to qualify for spousal insurance coverage, proof of marriage can take various other forms rather than just a particular visa type. But if you know for certain that there is a direct and hard link between the two things, I am obviously mistaken.

[Apiwan2]

To add to this

I have accident insurance with my bank siam commercial bank

Only yesterday I made a claim when a plant hit me in the eye and caused abrasion of the cornea.

Didn't pay a penny .

Used it before also when I kicked the table and fractured my toe.

Was 800 baht a year now 1,600

Would this cover us ?

I am now in single entry NON O visa ( multi not available in the UK now )

I have travel insurance worldwide up to 45 days with Lloyds bank UK. ( £17 per month with other stuff)

Will this be ok ?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[lupin]

1 minute ago, saengd said:

I will be extremely surprised if the foreigner must be on a marriage visa in order to qualify for spousal insurance coverage, proof of marriage can take various other forms rather than just a particular visa type. But if you know for certain that there is a direct and hard link between the two things, I am obviously mistaken.

And I would be astonished if a person can come into the kingdom on a visa exemption stamp for example and with only a marriage certificate can be covered by spousal insurance. But I too dont have a hard link to for claiming such. I guess we can agree that anything is possible in Thailand and that logic doesn't always apply.

[jacko45k]

33 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Your arguing and failing to understand the order in post 449.

I presume you are focusing on item 6) there? It truly is difficult to understand this English translation. Reading it literally, every single person who has ever been granted an O-A, who now applies for a  retirement extension, will fall under this insurance requirement and limitation. Will one be required to bring old passports to prove no O-A has ever existed in their life? 

I also consider Ubonjoe's comment here.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1128259-extend-year-visa-where-and-how-long-before/?do=findComment&comment=14663059

Edited October 14, 2019 by jacko45k

[Martyp]

40 minutes ago, lampangguy said:

I am on an extension, so the requirement won't affect me. But I carry health insurance in any case. However, my policy, which costs nearly 100K baht per year, only covers Out Patient costs in the event of radiation therapy or chemotherapy. It covers up to 32M baht per year for any Inpatient costs. The costs of having outpatient coverage, even the 40K per annum requirement would be outrageous. I don't think they thought through the outpatient requirement very carefully. Also, the idea that it is only required for the first year, and not for subsequent extensions, does not make much sense?

There are other financial requirements to get an extension of stay including  money in a Thai bank that address whether you have the financial resources to stay here. 

[saengd]

5 minutes ago, lupin said:

And I would be astonished if a person can come into the kingdom on a visa exemption stamp for example and with only a marriage certificate can be covered by spousal insurance. But I too dont have a hard link to for claiming such. I guess we can agree that anything is possible in Thailand and that logic doesn't always apply.

If it helps, what I did was to obtain an O-A visa (retirement) overseas, I then married after being here for several years. I suppose if my spouse was a government employee (which they are not) we could have used the Amphur certificate to prove our relationship, or the certification provided to my embassy.

[BUSBY]

13 hours ago, Genericnic said:

I fully agree about the need for insurance in Thailand - or anywhere else for that matter - and would not live without it. And like you, I am fully covered by my US based health insurance that has unlimited inpatient and outpatient coverage and does not expire. What I resent is that Thailand is now telling me that in addition to my high quality coverage, I have to buy over priced, second rate insurance from a Thai company just so I can get an O-A visa. The required coverage would not have been sufficient to cover my last hospital visit but my US insurance did so with no problem.

 

David

 

Hiya David,

I agree with your observations but should it become a new stipulation we must as always bend with the wind.

 

If it does become so then searching for the least expensive cover will do.

 

The following is an important observation based on the sad demise of uninsured expats

 

For those over 75 then as like in the UK unless you took your cover out at a younger age then it is as far as my searches both previously and recently getting ins. is unattainable.

 

Forget the visa scenario for a minute and look at what happens and I have observed over my time here is....

 

Sadly so many who where well off finished up with zero after paying extortionate bills in attempts to get better, especially with the more serious life threatening situations and spent their final days in agony unable to get home because of it and eventually passed on in relief.

 

I can see so many healthy mates even now in my minds eye who went downhill fast, ran out of funds and it has been heartbreaking to witness it.

 

If you can try to ignore the visa demands if you can and get adequate cover for yourself because I personally would not wish what could happen otherwise on no one.

 

If you are young enough then invest now before the age limitation scenario kicks in and it is impossible to get insurance.

 

Get it while you can please as I for one do not wish to witness any more suffering if it is at all possible.

 

WE all know Immigration doesn't give anything about our well being and like now will continue to put financial obstacles in our way.

 

May I suggest they come up with a reasonable cover programme with fixed prices for treatment if they are really concerned about us and our quality of life while we are guests in their country.

 

If only !!!!

 

Thank you

Busby

 

[lupin]

3 minutes ago, saengd said:

If it helps, what I did was to obtain an O-A visa (retirement) overseas, I then married after being here for several years. I suppose if my spouse was a government employee (which they are not) we could have used the Amphur certificate to prove our relationship, or the certification provided to my embassy.

I'm guessing we could both go down this rabbit hole forever without someone who is in such a situation to give us some real word example. For me, its not relevant for my visa type but was an interesting subject.

[sumrit]

17 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Will one be required to bring old passports to prove no O-A has ever existed in their life? 

Immigration have always had a record of your visa/extension history. Their records aren't deleted when you renew your passport.

[rabas]

23 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I presume you are focusing on item 6) there? It truly is difficult to understand this English translation. Reading it literally, every single person who has ever been granted an O-A, who now applies for a  retirement extension, will fall under this insurance requirement and limitation. Will one be required to bring old passports to prove no O-A has ever existed in their life? 

 

You must also consider sub-paragraph 2 on page 1 of the police order which defines the scope of the insurance mandate for the rest of the document. It reads.

 

2. An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A (not exceeding 1 year) and has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom before this order is effective, will be able to continually stay in the Kingdom for a granted length of stay.

 

Note the English translation is not all that clear but it clearly distinguishes between those entering before October 31, 2019 and those entering on or after. 

 

Also note that visa information is transferred when you renew a passport in Thailand.

Edited October 14, 2019 by rabas

[KeeTua]

41 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Visas cannot be extended.

Look at it this way, maybe the way Immigration views it:

A Non-Immigrant visa = temporary stay
TM.7 = extension of that temporary stay (visa)

Here Immigration refers to it as visa extension:
Service > Visa Extension > Visa Extension - In the case of retirement.
https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

You must also consider sub-paragraph 2 on page 1 of the police order which defines the scope of the insurance mandate for the rest of the document. It reads.

 

2. An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A (not exceeding 1 year) and has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom before this order is effective, will be able to continually stay in the Kingdom for a granted length of stay.

 

Note the English translation is not all that clear but it clearly distinguishes between those entering before Octiober 31, 2019 and those entering after. 

 

Also note that visa information is transferred when you renew a passport in Thailand.

Thank you, I was actually just looking at that and getting dizzy. UJ also commented elsewhere which I have now edited into my post above, just in time. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

Look at it this way, maybe the way Immigration views it:

A Non-Immigrant visa = temporary stay
TM.7 = extension of that temporary stay (visa)

Here Immigration refers to it as visa extension:
Service > Visa Extension > Visa Extension - In the case of retirement.
https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

I think it works better to consider it as it really is, and the way it is written in the stamp within my passport, 'Extension of Stay Permitted Up To' etc. Immigration also did that. It is a confusion though.

[Tanoshi]

24 minutes ago, rabas said:

2. An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A (not exceeding 1 year) and has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom before this order is effective, will be able to continually stay in the Kingdom for a granted length of stay.

That granted length of stay is 1 year, whether from an entry of a still valid O-A Visa, or from an extension of an O-A entry.

[Exploring Thailand]

6 hours ago, Maestro said:

I am not confused, but astonished. He exposes himself as another lawyer who does not know to interpret a Police Order correctly, a lawyer who mistakenly believes that an application for a permissions to stay and an application for an extension of permission to stay are the same. Sadly, he does not allow comments on his video and therefore nobody can set him right.

There are currently 94 comments on his video. If you want to set him straight, have at it!

[lupin]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

There are other financial requirements to get an extension of stay including  money in a Thai bank that address whether you have the financial resources to stay here. 

There are also financial requirements for the OX visa obtained outside the kingdom (3 million thb before and 1.4 million after thb)... yet this visa ALSO requires health insurance. So the "resources to stay here" based on money in the bank argument is not consistent or seemingly relevant.

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

2 hours ago, lampangguy said:

// Also, the idea that it is only required for the first year, and not for subsequent extensions, does not make much sense?

There are other financial requirements to get an extension of stay including  money in a Thai bank that address whether you have the financial resources to stay here. 

Hum. Requirements are the same for the first O-A you get abroad, so that doesn't reply lampangguy's question...

 

https://thaievisa.go.th/Home/LongStay

[rabas]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Will one be required to bring old passports to prove no O-A has ever existed in their life? 

Immigration have always had a record of your visa/extension history. Their records aren't deleted when you renew your passport.

That may not work when you get a new passport because your passport number is the primary reference to you in the database. Names are not unique. This is why you are required to transfer visa information when you get a new visa inside Thailand.

 

When you transfer the old visa info to the new passport, it is written into the first page of the new passport.

Edited October 14, 2019 by rabas

[lupin]

10 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Hum. Requirements are the same for the first O-A you get abroad, so that doesn't reply lampangguy's question...

 

https://thaievisa.go.th/Home/LongStay

You can get an OA with funds in your own bank in your own country as apposed the the extension inside the kingdom that specifically requires those funds to be in a Thai Bank. That was his distinction.

 

But it still has no relevance since financial requirements for the OX visa obtained outside the kingdom (3 million thb before and 1.4 million after thb)... ALSO requires health insurance. So the "resources to stay here" based on money in the bank argument is not consistent.

Edited October 14, 2019 by lupin
correction

[Sheryl]

Consider the plight of the foreigner who is married to a government employee and is covered by government health insurance, that person would also have to buy additional coverage, just to satisfy visa requirements.

Ditto a foreigner coveted by regular SS by means of previous employment in Thailand . And ditto US military vets who have worldwide cover through a government program.

 

And the many with high value expat policies issued by foreign companies and valid in Thailand.

 

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[lupin]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Ditto a foreigner coveted by regular SS by means of previous employment in Thailand . And ditto US military vets who have worldwide cover through a government program.

And the many with high value expat policies issued by foreign companies and valid in Thailand.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Sheryl... do you know if in fact it is possible for a foreigner, who is married to a government employee, is covered by government health insurance if they ARE NOT on a marriage visa /extension? If they must be on such a marriage visa/extension to qualify, then presumably this wont affect them

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, lupin said:

you can get an OA with funds in your own bank in your own country as apposed the the extension inside the kingdom that specifically requires those funds to be in a Thai Bank. //

Not anymore.

For France you can now only get Non O-A online, with conditions on ThaiEVisa.go.th website.

Money in a French bank (or any foreign bank) is no more an option.

Non O-X similar but higher amounts.

[Sheryl]

They are immigration laws. Stemming from Police orders. Immigration are a section of the Royal Thai Police force.

Laws do not stem from Police orders. The other way around. Police orders are designed to operationalize laws. And they have considerable latitude in how to do this given the very general wording of most laws. They have chosen in this instance to focus on peopoe with O-A visas.

The Immigration law had not been amended for years and does not mention health insurance at sll hence the need for the recent Cabinet Resolution.

I do not see the relevance of the fact that the Immigration Law does not describe O-A as a separate visa category from O to this. The Police Order, in both Englush and Thai, clearly specifies O-A visa.

If what he means is that based on the Immigration Law and wording of the Cabinet resolution TI could, if they chose, issue an order requiring insurance for retirees on O vidas then yes, I agree. But to date they have not done so.



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[lupin]

5 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Not anymore.

For France you can now only get Non O-A online, with conditions on ThaiEVisa.go.th website.

Money in a French bank (or any foreign bank) is no more an option.

Non O-X similar but higher amounts.

Where on that page does it say funds for OA visa must be in thai bank? The only stipulation that explicitly states funds must be in Thai bank are for the OX visa on that page... which has always been the case. The language for both these visas are very different

[Sheryl]

Uh?
Never heard of an "application for a permission to stay". What is that? Which form? 
 
AFAIK you ask for a Visa (Authorisation to enter) when you are abroad; you get an Authorisation of stay at the airport; and you later ask for an Extension of stay (TM7) if you want to stay longer. 

I think they are treating an entry under O-A as an application for permission to stay. In which case the form is the arrival card.

By some interpretations they are also concerned with Extension of permission to stay originally granted under an OA visa. Opinions on this differ.

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[Sheryl]

If he is covered by government health insurance, then he is on a marriage visa/extension... which the current police order/requirement doesn't apply to

Only if covered through marriage to a civil servant. In which case yes, should do marriage extension instead.

But there are people not married to a Thai with regular SS medical cover due to having previously worked in Thailand. A fair number of them I think, and it will include past and future O-A visa holders.

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[Sheryl]

You missed my point... the married person WHO QUALIFIES FOR HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE FROM HIS WIFE... MUST be on marriage visa or extension based on marriage...
He aint covered if he aint on the marriage visa/extension regardless of if he is married, since the VISA/extension is what permits to have have coverage under his wife's coverage.

I have never heaRd of such a rule in the Civil Service SS scheme and it would very much surprise me if it existed.

Spouses are covered, full stop.

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[Sheryl]

I am now in single entry NON O visa ( multi not available in the UK now )

I have travel insurance worldwide up to 45 days with Lloyds bank UK. ( £17 per month with other stuff)

Will this be ok ?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

The current police order does not apply to non O visa only to Non O-A. But check carefully that what you have is O and not O-A.

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[Sheryl]

If it helps, what I did was to obtain an O-A visa (retirement) overseas, I then married after being here for several years. I suppose if my spouse was a government employee (which they are not) we could have used the Amphur certificate to prove our relationship, or the certification provided to my embassy.

You would be well advised to switch from extension based on retirement to extension based on marriage.

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