Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

[Wazoo]

Lets do the same to thais in europe and see what happens. 

[lamyai3]

4 hours ago, Wazoo said:

Lets do the same to thais in europe and see what happens. 

If you think doing so means they'd have second thoughts and backtrack, think again. One of the reasons for the tighter rules we've seen in recent years is retributive, after other countries have cracked down on Thais abusing visas in their countries (South Korea and Japan are two examples). All we'd see is even more tightening of the noose. 

[lkv]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

One of the reasons for the tighter rules we've seen in recent years is retributive, after other countries have cracked down on Thais abusing visas in their countries (South Korea and Japan are two examples). All we'd see is even more tightening of the noose. 

Not really. It's about promoting Thainess, coming from a nationalistic government.

 

Foreigners don't fit well in the picture. The western way of thinking messes up the rhetoric.(I am actually serious, not dramatising or trolling).

 

For more info, see below.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-politics-costume-idUSKBN1HF04S

[lamyai3]

16 minutes ago, lkv said:

Not really. It's about promoting Thainess, coming from a nationalistic government.

It's there in black and white. The immigration chief in 2014 made it quite clear there was a tit for tat aspect involved with his comments during the 2014 crackdown:

"They can deport us, we can do the same to them.”

 

[oslooskar]

On 10/9/2019 at 4:16 AM, kellyjik39 said:

I dont see mention of people over 75 who cant buy insurance.

What am I missing?

Check this out and let me know if it works; I'm terrible at reading the small print. https://www.navakij.co.th/page/88?lang=EN

[oslooskar]

On 10/9/2019 at 9:40 PM, HHTel said:

Someone said that this is a scam to force the purchase of Thai insurance.  Let's explore that.

 

That someone was correct. After all, when I did my 90 day report today I was told that I would need health insurance in February when I applied for my annual O-A visa extension, and that my Kaiser health plan, which reimburses me for any medical expenses I incur abroad, would not be accepted.  

[rabas]

3 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

That someone was correct. After all, when I did my 90 day report today I was told that I would need health insurance in February when I applied for my annual O-A visa extension, and that my Kaiser health plan, which reimburses me for any medical expenses I incur abroad, would not be accepted.  

Thank you for the feedback. Can I ask some detail?

 

1. Do you mean you will apply for an extension of stay without leaving Thailand when your O-A is about to expire?

2. What immigration office did you go to?

[oslooskar]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Thank you for the feedback. Can I ask some detail?

 

1. Do you mean you will apply for an extension of stay without leaving Thailand when your O-A is about to expire?

2. What immigration office did you go to?

That was the plan; am I missing something here? The answer to your second question is Rayong.

[ICELANDMAN]

2 hours ago, oslooskar said:

That someone was correct. After all, when I did my 90 day report today I was told that I would need health insurance in February when I applied for my annual O-A visa extension, and that my Kaiser health plan, which reimburses me for any medical expenses I incur abroad, would not be accepted.  

Thanks, this confirm Thailand is nationalist country, if anyone still has doubts, this is the root of the problem for us expatriates

[ricklev]

You know what chaps my ass about Thai insurance companies?  It's their PDF application forms with minuscule areas to write and no way to fill it in on your computer.  I mean how hard or expensive is it make it easy?

 

At least they no longer require everything to be faxed.... 

[ICELANDMAN]

33 minutes ago, ricklev said:

You know what chaps my ass about Thai insurance companies?  It's their PDF application forms with minuscule areas to write and no way to fill it in on your computer.  I mean how hard or expensive is it make it easy?

 

At least they no longer require everything to be faxed.... 

This is not important to read rather than the tests you should do at the hospital

 

[oslooskar]

1 hour ago, ICELANDMAN said:

Thanks, this confirm Thailand is nationalist country, if anyone still has doubts, this is the root of the problem for us expatriates

I drove around the Ring Road in Iceland with my son in 2008 and we camped out and stayed in youth hostels and really loved the scenery. However, I do remember at the time being extremely uncomfortable with the thought of what would happen to Iceland if its leaders allowed those third world hordes that plague Europe onto its shores. So I can't fault the Thais for wanting to protect their culture. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by oslooskar

[ICELANDMAN]

2 hours ago, oslooskar said:

I drove around the Ring Road in Iceland with my son in 2008 and we camped out and stayed in youth hostels and really loved the scenery. However, I do remember at the time being extremely uncomfortable with the thought of what would happen to Iceland if its leaders allowed those third world hordes that plague Europe onto its shores. So I can't fault the Thais for wanting to protect their culture. 

I think you misunderstood me or you want to provoke me, my country is a democratic country and has never suffered and I hope it will never suffer coups. I hope I was very clear in my reply.

 

[oslooskar]

1 hour ago, ICELANDMAN said:

I think you misunderstood me or you want to provoke me, my country is a democratic country and has never suffered and I hope it will never suffer coups. I hope I was very clear in my reply.

 

I have no interest in provoking anyone. My intention was to let you know that I don't hold it against the Thais for being nationalistic. However, that having been said, I do hold it against those who would scam me. And that's what this is really all about; after all, if I already have health insurance that will cover me in Thailand why would anyone insist that I buy Thai health insurance?

[ICELANDMAN]

7 hours ago, oslooskar said:

I have no interest in provoking anyone. My intention was to let you know that I don't hold it against the Thais for being nationalistic. However, that having been said, I do hold it against those who would scam me. And that's what this is really all about; after all, if I already have health insurance that will cover me in Thailand why would anyone insist that I buy Thai health insurance?

  Your question as to why you should take a Thai insurance in Thailand responds to what you refuse to admit. Choosing only Thai insurance with Thai capital is a clear indication, logic and common sense is not important here with this policy.

 

 

[oslooskar]

2 hours ago, ICELANDMAN said:

  Your question as to why you should take a Thai insurance in Thailand responds to what you refuse to admit. Choosing only Thai insurance with Thai capital is a clear indication, logic and common sense is not important here with this policy.

 

 

I really and truly have no idea what you're going on about. I've made it quite clear that I can understand and accept Thai nationalism, while, at the very same time, I cannot accept being scammed by corrupt government officials who would compel me to buy insurance that I do not want, or need.

[ICELANDMAN]

41 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

I really and truly have no idea what you're going on about. I've made it quite clear that I can understand and accept Thai nationalism, while, at the very same time, I cannot accept being scammed by corrupt government officials who would compel me to buy insurance that I do not want, or need.

 

I can easily accept your opinion on the current Thailand, each one to their own convictions.
That there is corruption is probable even if it is not demonstrable but this decision to have to choose among Thai insurances is also due to this exasperated nationalism, Thai insurances are the best we can trust, says the government, while we all know that they are the worse for the insured, it is not just a question of corruption in my opinion, believe me I agree with this nonsense because I am in the same situation, this discrepancy rooted in Thai society, it is not just a matter of corruption.

[Methuselah]

Having spent sometime considering the motives behind the imposition of mandatory Thai company health insurances and subsequent denial of entry into Thailand without such insurance,I have applied logic to this imposition.

Only Thai insurances will be fully understood by Immigration officers,thus avoiding excessive delays at the airport immigration desks.

We should be grateful for this silver lining on an otherwise massive cloud.

[Olmate]

12 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

Having spent sometime considering the motives behind the imposition of mandatory Thai company health insurances and subsequent denial of entry into Thailand without such insurance,I have applied logic to this imposition.

Only Thai insurances will be fully understood by Immigration officers,thus avoiding excessive delays at the airport immigration desks.

We should be grateful for this silver lining on an otherwise massive cloud.

Not that hard to decipher a current yearly certificate surely! Hope you didn’t spend too much time on that 

[rabas]

36 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Not that hard to decipher a current yearly certificate surely! Hope you didn’t spend too much time on that 

One needs to see immigration's problems. We Farang are  not their biggest customer or problem, in fact they tend to like us BION. But they have huge problems with fake documents from several Asian countries. I'm told Korea is their biggest headache for document authentication. If there was a special farang category, it might be better, Non O-HM (handsome man).

[Polaky]

Is this requirement only for new applications and or extensions or does it apply immediately for residing and entering oa visa holders?

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Polaky said:

Is this requirement only for new applications and or extensions or does it apply immediately for residing and entering oa visa holders?

The translation says that it will apply from October 31 to to new OA visa applications, and entry to Thailand with an OA Visa Also extensions of stay from an OA Visa. So the wording is that it will apply to all OA visa holders. 
 

There is an anomaly in the translation or order because it talks about single entry OA Visa holders and of course (AFIK) no OA Visa is single entry.
 

It does not address the question of someone with a reentry permit to an extension already granted without the insurance requirement.

 

So well before leaving you should get an answer from an immigration officer.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

On 10/24/2019 at 3:47 PM, oslooskar said:

That someone was correct. After all, when I did my 90 day report today I was told that I would need health insurance in February when I applied for my annual O-A visa extension, and that my Kaiser health plan, which reimburses me for any medical expenses I incur abroad, would not be accepted.  

At the moment the best choice for most people who have had an OA that has been extended is to leave THAILAND at a convenient time before renewal without a reentry permit to the nearest or most convenient embassy/consulate then get a Non-O and extended that either on the basis of marriage (if married) or retirement if not. 
 

if you already have a reentry permit then you need to take your trip so you will arrive at the consulate or embassy after your current extension finishes.

Edited October 26, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[Polaky]

23 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The translation says that it will apply from October 31 to to new OA visa applications, and entry to Thailand with an OA Visa Also extensions of stay from an OA Visa. So the wording is that it will apply to all OA visa holders. 
 

There is an anomaly in the translation or order because it talks about single entry OA Visa holders and of course (AFIK) no OA Visa is single entry.
 

It does not address the question of someone with a reentry permit to an extension already granted without the insurance requirement.

 

So well before leaving you should get an answer from an immigration officer.

 

 

That still leaves a lot of if's, I have a re entry permit, but wonder whether it was all for nothing, surely they would not deny me entree, but if so I could request a 30 day exempt visa to obtain an O, or would they simply send me back, as with all the rules and regs nothing is clear cut, receiving vindication from one io doesn't mean all is good.

[niebla]

The big question is if and when this will apply to Non-O retirement extensions. Some of us already have Thai policies for inpatient and or international policies that cover Thailand medical expenses. Outpatient coverage is just not cost effective as the outpatient costs are low, the policy prices are high and the coverage is minimal.

[zydeco]

Today's the day!

[pookondee]

On 10/26/2019 at 9:00 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

At the moment the best choice for most people who have had an OA that has been extended is to leave THAILAND at a convenient time before renewal without a reentry permit to the nearest or most convenient embassy/consulate then get a Non-O and extended that either on the basis of marriage (if married) or retirement if not. 
 

if you already have a reentry permit then you need to take your trip so you will arrive at the consulate or embassy after your current extension finishes.

But what if the insurance is NOT required for already existing O-A holders?

 

You have gone to considerable expense for nothing, 

and thrown away a perfectly good means of using extensions of stay,

on what MIGHT happen.

 

There is a lot of silly scaremongering going on here.

The order has been repeated many times that its for new O-As from ones own country.

 

"NEW" visa, as in the opposite to an O-A already in your passport..

 

Another hint, they are saying:

"when entering Thailand"

 

So, when you go to get extension of stay, on your old O-A, are you actually entering the country?

 

Again, the vetting of the insurance papers (written in your language) 

 for your "NEW" O-A will be done in your own country, by the Thai consulate that issues the new visa. 

 

There has been nothing in the orders that suggests already existing O-A holders will need insurance.

Only a few 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand reports that some IMMs officers have said they will..

and that is not worth banking on IMO.

 

if it was me, and providing i had time left on my extension, id be waiting to see what happens.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by pookondee
typo

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, pookondee said:

There has been nothing in the orders that suggests already existing O-A holders will need insurance.

You are dead wrong, and have confused the OA visa and an extension of stay.

 

what I said was "At the moment the best choice for most people who have had an OA that has been extended”

note if you have an extension you DO NOT have a visa it has expired 

 

Insurance  is specifically required for an extension of stay and people who have gone into immigration offices are being told that the insurance WILL be required, police order 548/2562 section 2.22 item 6

I did not address the point of current visa holders before.
 

However if you currently have a valid Non-OA VISA entry during it’s validity is being stated as not requiring insurance so you may well have a grace period, that depends on the date it expires, of up to 2 years. Though if you have to extend it you WILL need insurance.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[rabas]

27 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are dead wrong. It is specifically required and people who have gone into immigration offices are being told that the insurance WILL be required, police order 548/2562 section 2.22 item 6

 

I also think the rules do not strictly apply to O-A visas granted (bought) after Oct 30, 2019. Note page 5 of the English translation of the new orders. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B2icrv51NImXmu-QrsEvLG6jbh2Ulwl8/view

 

Reading the first paragraph and clause 2 (my highlight), how does it not apply to someone already here on a valid O-A visa before Oct 31, 2019 when they exit and re-enter after Oct 30, 2019? (that is a question).

 

Therefore, when an alien, who has been granted Non-immigrant Visa Class O-A from an overseas Royal Thai Embassy with the purpose of retirement (not exceeding one year), enters the Kingdom, an immigration officer shall abide by the following practices for permitting an alien to stay in the Kingdom, effective from October, 31, 2019. (enforcement starts 31/10/19, nothing about when visa was granted)

 

1.   An alien, who has been granted Non-immigrant Visa Class O-A for single entry or multiple entry and enters the Kingdom for the first time, will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for a coverage period of health insurance for not exceeding 1 year. An immigration officer shall check any remarks on a visa issued by and overseas Royal Thia Embassy for consideration and approval.

 

2.   An alien, who has been granted Non-immigrant Visa Class O-A for multiple entry and enters the Kingdom from the second time onwards, will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for the remaining coverage period of health insurance for net exceeding 1 year. (nothing about when alien first entered Thailand)

 

3.   An alien, who has been granted Non-immigrant Visa Class O-A for multiple entry but the coverage period of health insurance has already expired, even if the visa is still valid, will not be permitted to enter the Kingdom. However, the said alien can buy a health insurance in Thailand in order to be permitted to enter the Kingdom for a coverage period of health insurance for not exceeding 1 year.

 

4.   In case the permission of stay in the Kingdom exceeds the coverage period of health insurance, an immigration officer shall apply mutatin mutandid to Order of the Immigration Bureau no. 115/2553 dated June 29, 2919 concerning the Amendment of an immigration stamp in a passport and the Order of the Immigration Bureau no. 79/2557 dated April 1, 2014 concerning the Guideline in case of an alien's granted permission of stay in the Kingdom is not meet a visa class or visa exemption.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by rabas

[pookondee]

22 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are dead wrong, and have confused the OA visa and an extension of stay.

 

what I said was "At the moment the best choice for most people who have had an OA that has been extended”

note if you have an extension you DO NOT have a visa it has expired 

 

It is specifically required for an extension of stay and people who have gone into immigration offices are being told that the insurance WILL be required, police order 548/2562 section 2.22 item 6

I did not address the point of current visa holders before.
 

However if you currently have a valid Non-OA VISA entry during it’s validity is being stated as not requiring insurance so you may well have a grace period, that depends on the date it expires, of up to 2 years. Though if you have to extend it you WILL need insurance.

 

 

 

Your last sentance is quite bold,

making a statement of what WILL happen, when your talking about Thai immigration! 

 

Since itseems nothing coming from individual officers or even IMMs itself is even clear or consistent as yet.

 

No offence, but as i said, i would wait to see what happens before taking any strategic action.