Mandatory health insurance due for long stay tourists

[AJS150654]

Wasn't it only a few weeks ago that I read on this page that because of reasons I can't remember, the mandatory health insurance was being "shelved", until at least 2020? Is this poor reporting, or has the Thai Government changed it's mind?

 

I have the required insurance in place, but this must be so bloody confusing for those who haven't.

[AJS150654]

Wasn't it only a few weeks ago that I read on this page that because of reasons I can't remember, the mandatory health insurance was being "shelved", until at least 2020? Is this poor reporting, or has the Thai Government changed it's mind?

 

I have the required insurance in place, but this must be so bloody confusing for those who haven't.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

36 minutes ago, AJS150654 said:

Wasn't it only a few weeks ago that I read on this page that because of reasons I can't remember, the mandatory health insurance was being "shelved", until at least 2020? Is this poor reporting, or has the Thai Government changed it's mind?

 

I have the required insurance in place, but this must be so bloody confusing for those who haven't.

 

That was one for regular tourists.

 

This one is for "long-stay" tourists -- AKA O-A visa holders and extenders.

 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Most of the Pacific Cross policies are above 800k, although they don't list the schedule past 65. I'd be surprised if the other companies don't offer similar policies.

 

They list 3 policies on their website as meeting TI requirements. The maximum is 645,500

https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/health-insurance/longstay-visa/

 

I've checked the other companies, of those that list premiums in English the highest I saw was 800K. And coverage under it terminates at age 70. Not exactly very useful for retirees.

 

Several of these companies either do not list a product that meets TI requirements and is available to people over 60-65, or do nto have information in English. One has "Long stay visa insurance" written and rest if the page blank.  Some appear to have not done health insurance before.

 

Many of the plans have age terminations i.e. they do nto offer lifetime cover. Not exactly suitable for people choosing to retire here.

 

This is for policies that meet TI requirements i.e. have at least 40K outpatient cover. These same companies may well have hospitalization-only policies that offer higher maximum (almost surely at lower price) but that won't work as TI has inexplicably decided there needs to be outpatient cover.

 

[Exploring Thailand]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

They list 3 policies on their website as meeting TI requirements. The maximum is 645,500

https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/health-insurance/longstay-visa/

 

I've checked the other companies, of those that list premiums in English the highest I saw was 800K.

 

This is for policies that meet TI requirements i.e. have at least 40K outpatient cover. These same companies may well have hospitalization-only policies that offer higher maximum (almost surely at lower price) but that won't work as TI has inexplicably decided there needs to be outpatient cover.

 

 

Those are the old policies. According to this post, which appears to be from a representative of Pacific Cross, it is no longer mandatory to use those policies (in which case no one in their right mind would use them!). You can choose any policy which meets the 40/400 rule.

 

On 10/11/2019 at 12:03 PM, Thaivisa Health Protect said:

Pacific Cross's/Thai Visa Protects historic plans that provided much stronger coverage and value were not approved to obtain the OA or OX visa, this made little sense all round, to both applicants and to the insurer.  Following lobbying by the insurer the historic product suite available is now approved, meaning any plan that meets or exceeds the 400k/40k minimum can obtain the visa.  This is actually a big improvement, as the premiums for the Long Stay plan were skewed do the the age group of applicant.  Therefore one should look at the historic products not the specific Long Stay approved plans.  The Government announcement clearly hasn't addressed this clearly enough, with respect, as the post above shows.

 

[Sheryl]

The problem then is with  Pacific Cross's own website.  On which, no OPD cover is listed for any of the 4 "historic" products. Only for the 3 plans listed as meeting TI requirements.

[Exploring Thailand]

19 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The problem then is with  Pacific Cross's own website.  On which, no OPD cover is listed for any of the 4 "historic" products. Only for the 3 plans listed as meeting TI requirements.

 

He says that you can add OPD to any appropriate policy.  I agree that this is all very haphazard, and we shouldn't have to be chasing around to track down this information.

 

On 10/11/2019 at 10:35 AM, Thaivisa Health Protect said:

I presume you have a Pacific Cross policy.  Actually you can keep your existing policy and add a 40k OPD limit into the plan to meet the OPD visa requirements.  This is true for any plan that exceeds the requirement by an approved company  You are not bound to take the particular Long Stay visa plan which was the case back in May.  That was the exact problem the plans represented bad value versus historic products.  Now any plan that meets or exceeds the 400k/40k minumum can obtain the visa.

 

Some of the Pacific Cross policies (Maxima, and up, I think), do have Outpatient Benefits built in, but they're not assigned a specific monetary value.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Exploring Thailand

[Tayaout]

As a canadian, I don't really understand the in/out patient lingo. It looks like hell trying to compare plan and read the fine prints. I always assumed that I would pay from my pocket if needed. I'm pretty sure they will require that I get insurance eventually but the current situation with the thai insurance looks like borderline scam. 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Tayaout

[Almer]

37 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

They list 3 policies on their website as meeting TI requirements. The maximum is 645,500

https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/health-insurance/longstay-visa/

 

I've checked the other companies, of those that list premiums in English the highest I saw was 800K. And coverage under it terminates at age 70. Not exactly very useful for retirees.

 

Several of these companies either do not list a product that meets TI requirements and is available to people over 60-65, or do nto have information in English. One has "Long stay visa insurance" written and rest if the page blank.  Some appear to have not done health insurance before.

 

Many of the plans have age terminations i.e. they do nto offer lifetime cover. Not exactly suitable for people choosing to retire here.

 

This is for policies that meet TI requirements i.e. have at least 40K outpatient cover. These same companies may well have hospitalization-only policies that offer higher maximum (almost surely at lower price) but that won't work as TI has inexplicably decided there needs to be outpatient cover.

 

IO after something not available by the sounds if it

[Almer]

6 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

As a canadian, I don't really understand the in/out patient lingo. It looks like hell trying to compare plan and read the fine prints. I always assumed that I would pay from my pocket if needed. I'm pretty sure they will require that I get insurance eventually but the current situation with the thai insurance looks like borderline scam. 

???? a scam wash your mouth out with soapy water sir.

[superal]

18 hours ago, jimn said:

It never ceases to amaze me the moronic decisions made by Thai authorities. They complain that tourist numbers are down whilst impementing policies that are making it harder to visit. First you have the debarcle over proving income comes from overseas for retirement and marriage extensions. Secondly they leave it up to individual officers to decide if someone entering the country especially at BKK and DMK airports rather than having a clear understandable policy. Thirdly they are now stupidly introducing compulsory insurance when you apply for an OA visa. Rather than making it simple and asking the applicant to prove they have adequate cover from their own country when they apply, they are insisting on expensive Thai company insurance. 

At this point I will drop in some personal experience. For the last 6 years I have been on extensions of stay based on retirement. For various reasons mainly because I only stay 7 months I do not want to transfer 65k per month from the UK into my Thai bank account. I had planned to let my extension of stay expire and instead apply for an OA visa when I go tho the UK next May. This new Thai insurance requirment scuppers that. I always take out insurance from a reputable UK company for my 7 month stay, I certainly will not be changing to a Thai one. My prediction is that the take up of OA visa to visit Thailand in the future will simply get smaller and smaller as people use other visas or go somewhere else. Me I will revert to my extension of stay but use an agent for 13,000 baht in Pattaya something I never wanted to do but now have limited options if I dont want to have to exit the country to get a Non O. Well done Thailand you simply amaze me.

Hi Jim ,

          I think most readers will agree with your post , What I feel should happen is for all tourists to be covered by their own insurance as I believe that this is the problem area of unpaid medical treatment bills .

With regards to the visa scenario ,  the agent  thingy is the way to go for me and others who I speak to . No hassle , just go with the flow .  But who knows what the next move by the Thai government will be that will concern farangs .   

[Lacrimas]

12 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

They talked some originally about allowing expats to post some kind of bond or deposit as a guarantee against medical expenses.  Kind of like what they're already doing with requiring the 800K/400K to remain on deposit for retirement extensions.

 

--They talked about it originally, and then when the dust settled, they did nothing! Plus...

 

--No provision (beyond year 1) for people with valid and higher cover health insurance issued outside Thailand that's valid here.

 

--No provision for expats who have worked in Thailand and are already covered by Thai Social Security medical coverage.

 

--and no provision for those at very advanced ages or with significant pre-existing conditions who may be denied insurance by the O-A pool of Thai insurers, many of whom don't even write new policies for people older than 65....

 

 

They are being beyond stupid really, they could force us to buy state bonds and in exchange give us a 2% return net per year and health insurance. Instead they prefer to get little money under the table from insurance companies. 

[TigerandDog]

On 10/11/2019 at 7:58 AM, verticalift said:

For those looking for coverage from insurance providers with offices in T’land, make sure that you read the fine print first. I was looking into this several months ago and found that they will only cover you up to age 70yrs. After 70, they will not cover you. Not very good for those of us in our 60’s. I recently switched from BUPA Global (UK), over to CIGNA in Dubai for my global coverage.

Int’l health care providers with offices outside T’land, unlike their Thai counterparts, will not kick you out at age 70.

can't say much for the standard of research you did. Pacific Cross accept people up to age 75. If 65 or older a full medical is required as part of the application process. Once accepted you are covered until you die. The only problem is if you have any kind of pre-existing condition ( no matter how long ago ) they will not cover anything that they can relate to that pre-existing condition. In essence most of the things we need to be covered for, they exclude, as do ALL the other Thai health insurance companies.

[Sheryl]

 
Some of the Pacific Cross policies (Maxima, and up, I think), do have Outpatient Benefits built in, but they're not assigned a specific monetary value.

Prior post in another thread some time back, PC rep specifically said you could not do this (add 40k OPD to existing plan) and that this was why they had had to create new plans. Maybe this has since changed. Perhaps@PacificCrossInsurance could clarify and provide details (how to do it, premium cist implications).

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sheryl]

IO after something not available by the sounds if it

At present somewhat true but remember this is not effective until the 31st. Hopefully the listed companies will have their act more together by then.

 

Also hope that brokers will have info on whether/how foreign policy can be used. Oerhaps@AAInsuranceBrokers could comment.

 

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

can't say much for the standard of research you did. Pacific Cross accept people up to age 75. If 65 or older a full medical is required as part of the application process. Once accepted you are covered until you die. The only problem is if you have any kind of pre-existing condition ( no matter how long ago ) they will not cover anything that they can relate to that pre-existing condition. In essence most of the things we need to be covered for, they exclude, as do ALL the other Thai health insurance companies.

They do (I think up to 74 not 75) but many of the others accept only up to earlier ages especially for the higher level plans.

Other issue is, once insured, how long a company will insure for. In many cases of the companies listed, it is not for life. Which is what someone retiring in Thailand needs.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Exploring Thailand]

21 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Prior post in another thread some time back, PC rep specifically said you could not do this (add 40k OPD to existing plan) and that this was why they had had to create new plans. Maybe this has since changed. Perhaps@PacificCrossInsurance could clarify and provide details (how to do it, premium cist implications).

 

He says 10,000 for existing clients. Presumably new clients could add it at the time of purchase.

 

On 10/11/2019 at 12:03 PM, Thaivisa Health Protect said:

For clients that have an existing policy with outpatient removed, PCHI has the option to add 40,000 THB of outpatient back into the plan, subject to underwriting terms, for 10,000 THB additional premium. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

44 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

 

He says 10,000 for existing clients. Presumably new clients could add it at the time of purchase.

 

 

 

Here's the link to the full post by the Pacific Cross agent or rep explaining about their adding outpatient coverage provision, that their regular policies are going to be accepted for meeting the O-A requirement, and their policy writing rules for different ages.

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Exploring Thailand]

 

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Here's the link to the full post by the Pacific Cross agent or rep explaining about their adding outpatient coverage provision, that their regular policies are going to be accepted for meeting the O-A requirement, and their policy writing rules for different ages...

 

And I notice the guy who started that thread is saying that the insurance requirement will be extended to all non-Immigrant visas.

 

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

There will be an announcement over the coming weeks regarding Health Insurance being a mandatory requirement for ALL Non Immigrant visa extensions.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

 

 

And I notice the guy who started that thread is saying that the insurance requirement will be extended to all non-Immigrant visas.

 

 

 

If that proves to be true, that's certainly going to roil the waters!!!!

 

And just the other day there was a thread here asking.... are you waiting for the other shoe to drop!!!

 

He was correct, prior to ThaiVisa, about the arrival of the O-A insurance requirement. So I'm inclined to believe him, if he says something more is coming soon.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Here's the link to the full post by the Pacific Cross agent or rep explaining about their adding outpatient coverage provision, that their regular policies are going to be accepted for meeting the O-A requirement, and their policy writing rules for different ages.

 

 

 

 

If I read this correctly only existing policy holders can add 10K to get 40K OPD. Which is still very valuable. Bit it does nto indicate that same can be done with the full range of products. Need to get this clarified.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Bit it does nto indicate that same can be done with the full range of products.

 

Are you talking about people wanting to take out new policies with Pacific Cross?

 

AFAIK, and certainly for their mainline higher premium policies, I believe their common approach is to include outpatient coverage by default, and then offer a premium discount if you choose to exclude it.

 

 

For their popular Maxima policy line, for age groups 50 and above, the 20% outpatient exclusion amount works out to be varyingly larger amounts than the 10K add-on the Pacific Cross rep was talking about. 

 

 

But BTW, the 10K mention I believe was specifically to obtain 40K of outpatient coverage.

 

At least on the Maxima line of their policies, there is no specific coverage limit for outpatient coverage. It's part of the broader total policy coverage limit, which in effect makes the outpatient limit the same as the total policy limit.

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

The youtube guy "Integrity Legal" has a Thai legal staff and based on his latest video he seems completely convinced that the health insurance requirement is going to apply to not only O-A visa applicants abroad but to ALL annual retirement extensions in Thailand (O or O-A). Effective date 31 October. Actual enforcement specifics unknown. He backs that up with documentation. I sure hope that he's wrong but for some weird reason it appears that the party line here on this website is that it's only about O-A visa applicants. Where that confidence comes from is beyond me!

[Exploring Thailand]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

 

If I read this correctly only existing policy holders can add 10K to get 40K OPD. Which is still very valuable. Bit it does nto indicate that same can be done with the full range of products. Need to get this clarified.

It is confusing. I think he is talking about people who have a policy which includes OPD but opted to forego it in favour of a discount. But even those policies don't specifically mention 40k. None of their packages have that.  Their outpatient benefits are defined in terms of treatments, not cost. 

 

So it does sound like they have some kind of bolt-on package that can be purchased for 10k. Hopefully, he will be back after the holidays to explain exactly who can buy it.

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The youtube guy "Integrity Legal" has a Thai legal staff and based on his latest video he seems completely convinced that the health insurance requirement is going to apply to not only O-A visa applicants abroad but to ALL annual retirement extensions in Thailand (O or O-A). Effective date 31 October. Actual enforcement specifics unknown. He backs that up with documentation. I sure hope that he's wrong but for some weird reason it appears that the party line here on this website is that it's only about O-A visa applicants. Where that confidence comes from is beyond me!

 

It comes form the Police Order which definitely and clearly limits it to O-A visas. Opinions differ as to whether it also includes Extensions of Stay under an O-A or only entries under initial visa, but it definitely specifies O-A.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

It comes form the Police Order which definitely and clearly limits it to O-A visas. Opinions differ as to whether it also includes Extensions of Stay under an O-A or only entries under initial visa, but it definitely specifies O-A.

Watch his videos. A key is his explanation about how many people incorrectly make distinctions between O and O-A visas that aren't actually in the immigration law. For example when applying for retirement extensions they are treated exactly the same. He also quotes an authoritative immigration official source saying it WILL include all retirement extensions. I think the most ethical thing to tell expats now is --

we don't know yet. We'll probably know a lot more after 31 October. I'm not saying he's right or wrong at this point but he backs up his POV quite strongly.

I'm not going to link to his videos as it's my impression that it's frowned upon partly because his POV seems to conflict with the party line here.

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The youtube guy "Integrity Legal" has a Thai legal staff and based on his latest video he seems completely convinced that the health insurance requirement is going to apply to not only O-A visa applicants abroad but to ALL annual retirement extensions in Thailand (O or O-A). Effective date 31 October. Actual enforcement specifics unknown. He backs that up with documentation. I sure hope that he's wrong but for some weird reason it appears that the party line here on this website is that it's only about O-A visa applicants. Where that confidence comes from is beyond me!

 

Whether it comes from a broader interpretation of the rule they've already issued or some additional rule/rules that will come down the pike soon, I believe they're probably on the right track... and the prevailing TVF officialdom advice is going to end up being wrong. But that's just my opinion at this point....

 

I certainly believe the current rule can be, and probably will be, applied to extensions of O-A visas -- AKA retirement extensions that trace back to original O-As.  How far it may go beyond that I guess we're going to find out soon.

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[rohitsuk]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

It comes form the Police Order which definitely and clearly limits it to O-A visas. Opinions differ as to whether it also includes Extensions of Stay under an O-A or only entries under initial visa, but it definitely specifies O-A.

The problem is, as with all bureaucrats, what they say, what they mean and what they might eventually do are rarely the same.  Howeverm the Minister referred to:

The pilot project will also be applied to elderly tourists seeking a longer stay in the country, but no more than a year, he said. Currently, there are about 80,950 tourists seeking long stay in Thailand and the number is expected to increase. 

This would seem to mean those of us who are on annual (no more than a year) retirment extensions who are the main market for the insurance companies to exploit but please God I am wrong.

[Sheryl]

Okay, guys I have prepared a "cheat sheet" summarizing what appears on the websites of the companies listed on the tgia site. Here

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1128396-cheat-sheet-for-longstay-insurance-policies/

 

 

 

Will update as websites are updated. Note that info on websites is far from complete, but this may provide enough info to help people narrow down choices.

[Jingthing]

I'm quite concerned about what's going to happen to retirement extension applicants after 31 October. I reckon the vast majority won't be prepared for this if they actually start enforcing this right away even if they have insurance. What insurance? Does it qualify? What expiration date of the insurance? If it expires in two months, your annual extensions is only two months yet?

 

So even IF Integrity Legal youtube guy is correct about the new requirements, nobody knows yet (including admittedly him) what the enforcement specifics would be.

 

It would be arguably a human rights disaster to spring this on elderly people that have lived here for decades without a very generous grace period. Maybe someone should call CNN to have the cameras ready for the sob stories. 

 

But the date is clear -- 31 October.