I was given a warning by an IO at DMK - Thoughts?

[cerox]

They definitely do consider it as work.

When I entered BKK airport with an ED visa before (in 2018) I was asked if I worked as a teacher.I was asked again whether I work online. I declined both and got through.

That is why I think you were lucky, the IO did perhaps not care or he misunderstood it - in a sense of working somewhere else and now doing a break to travel.

[cerox]

Elite is not a permission to work.

So although you have an easy access to the country, one should still keep their mouth shut about the evil word "work".

[Martyp]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Why not an Elite then? 

 

I already suggested Elite visa. Read above.

[EricTh]

It seems that there are almost daily refusals reported here everyday.

 

The good old days for border/visa runs are over....

[DEKEM]

you think it's silly???  people would kill for the job you have.  no joke.  if I were you, I would keep it low key.

 

a story...  when I was still working way back in 1997, I made about 50 dollars a hour.  typical month was 12k dollars when you include the overtime.  I told this story to someone in the PI.  there was this electrician working on my apartment replacing some electrical sockets.  when he heard us talking about our monthly salaries, he had this really sad look on his face.  out of curiosity, I asked him how much he made.  he replied 50 cents a day.  the minute he said this, I stopped talking about salaries.

 

another story...  when I first moved to thailand, I rented this small apartment near nana that rented for 70 dollars a month.  it was 24 sqm, had cable tv, and internet included.  I loved the place.  lived there for 2 years.  everyday, I walked out of that place with a smile on my face.  what a deal!  everyday, thais would ask me where I was going and what I was going to do.  not having a care in the world, I told them.  going to the gym.  meeting a friend.  etc.  I never said I was going to work.  one year later, the manager got mad at me for what I thought was silly.  she said you should not live here.  this place for poor people.  so, I left.

[cerox]

dekem, thanks very much. You posted really good examples to open all our eyes again about the "salary talk".

Whenever I get asked about my salary, which does not happen often, I will either not answer or quote some low key figure - something that is still realistic but not high.

This is I think how we can spot a tourist or expat with little experience, when they walk around SEA and shout "that is so cheap" all the time.

[somtumwrong]

33 minutes ago, Onestepforward said:

Yeah, it's totally understandable....I would be jealous too. But it seems a bit childish when "there is a lot of hate" towards people working online here in the forum, if that's true. I would have thought people would be a bit more mature/courteous and respond to posts without the bias. 

There is a lot of jealousy because there are people who are really struggling / have no savings / have made the tough decision to build their life here, and have very different backgroudns. The rule goes not to tell others if you have money, or if you are a Digital Nomad. And don't tell that to your gf/wife either, although you can easily find a loyal and money saving (!) wife in Thailand as well :)

[DEKEM]

7 minutes ago, cerox said:

dekem, thanks very much. You posted really good examples to open all our eyes again about the "salary talk".

Whenever I get asked about my salary, which does not happen often, I will either not answer or quote some low key figure - something that is still realistic but not high.

This is I think how we can spot a tourist or expat with little experience, when they walk around SEA and shout "that is so cheap" all the time.

glad I could help.  after living in thailand for 22+ years, I have a lot of stories.  enough to fill a book.

 

and yes, you are right.  the tourist or expat with little experience talk too much.  back when I first moved to thailand, haircuts were 50 baht.  and for that 50 baht, I got a haircut, a shave, my ears were cleaned, and I got a 5 minute shoulder massage.  then, I posted a story on nanapong, and the next thing you know, haircuts are 100 baht with no shave, ears cleaned and 5 minute massage.

 

loose lips sink ships.

[sir charles IV]

The IO is probably coming from the angle of a visitor visa being for people who go on vacation from time to time. In this case it seems the OP is living in Thailand. The visitor visa is not to be used to circumvent a long term visa. I also agree that he’s lucky to get away with it. In developed countries they’ll figure it out quickly and will refuse him based on his travel history.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, Onestepforward said:

Quote

There is a lot of hate toward online workers "digital nomad" on this forum. 

For what reason? 

To be fair, there's a lot of hate towards all sorts of things and people here.

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

To be fair, there's a lot of hate towards all sorts of things and people here.

I cant believe people go around grassing guys up, scum

[Matzzon]

3 hours ago, Onestepforward said:

It could very well be. Am considering an ED visa at this point. 

ED-visa? For what? Was it not like you were travelling and working?

But, sure! Go ahead if oyu believe that is a simple way. Good Luck!

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, sir charles IV said:

The IO is probably coming from the angle of a visitor visa being for people who go on vacation from time to time. In this case it seems the OP is living in Thailand. The visitor visa is not to be used to circumvent a long term visa. I also agree that he’s lucky to get away with it. In developed countries they’ll figure it out quickly and will refuse him based on his travel history.

 

In developed countries they usually allow folk to stay 6 months in a year.

Number of entry/exits doesn't matter.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, Tayaout said:

My guess is because it's a gray area. Some think it's illegal but evidence seems to show the opposite.

It is as gray as getting retirment fund from an agent for retirment extenzion.

[onera1961]

As I kept saying IOs have become very adept at spotting people who are living in Thailand as a perpetual tourist. Any post that says otherwise is omitting information, outright lying or trolling. Good luck to those people. There is always a possibility of living in Thailand on TV using land border crossing. But one has to question one's existance on broader prospective in life before subjecting to humilation and inconveneices of crossing border as migrant workers fleeing war ravagaed country, rape and destruction for survivial or to earn a livlihood. 

[onera1961]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

In developed countries they usually allow folk to stay 6 months in a year.

Schengen rule is only three months per enmtry. Repeated attempt to enter US using a visitor can be denied entery. Maximum length of stay per entry is 6-month average is alwasy less. Length of stay is determined by the IO and mostly depends on the return flight date or may be few days after that. But 6-month in a year is fair enough.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

What do you mean in the past? You mean last week or 5 years ago?

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

They do, nonsense answer, probably a digital nomad yourself?

IOs are not actively looking for people working online, would be easy to find many of them in the various co working spaces across the country.

Would make for some nice photos for the IOs, when they deport these law breaking foreigners, wouldn't it? (if they were breaking the law...)

 

In the last years there was afaik not any credible news where somebody who was just doing some remote work for a foreign business was deported for this. When people working online were caught in some raid in the past years the people were let go, and not charged for working illegally.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Onestepforward said:

I wasn't denied entry, so it seems that this particular IO officer didn't see anything wrong with the fact thatThai Immigration O I was working online while in Thailand. That being said, I think it's pretty clear that IO officers tend to run with their own rules at times. 

Thai Immigration Oficers cannot understand how someone under the age of 50 could possibly be in Thailand for several months- several times without some type of income coming into Thailand via working in Thailand.  Their belief is that people in this age group   get a 30 day vacation but normally should be working in their home country the rest of the time.  They cannot imagine someone could work remotely on a computer and get enough income to support themselves/

 

Then you throw in the fact that the Thai Government has decided to  limit the number of people in Thailand by focusing on  the demographic of  under 50 year olds who travel to Thailand on Tourist and  Exempt entries from all over the World and end up working illegally mostly as teachers.  

 

Unfortunately, you will be stopped and questioned again if you follow the same pattern. If you have the means- the only sure bet is an elite visa or getting married to a Thai.

 

I have no problem with on line workers but many of them forget that  unless employed by a physical company - thaere is no provision for them contributing to a Social Security Scheme or Home country healthcare.   Unless you are  making in excess of $100,000 US Dollars per year and saving 50%- you will end up without any pension or Government benefits.  Time passes quickly and you don't want to be stuck in Thailand at age 65 living as a pauper.   

[Metapod]

Surely the "million dollar blogger" can afford an Elite Visa? 

 

 

[Tayaout]

41 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

It is as gray as getting retirment fund from an agent for retirment extenzion.

More like they busted a place full of foreigner "digital nomad" and let them go without charge or deportation. 

[Martyp]

8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

IOs are not actively looking for people working online, would be easy to find many of them in the various co working spaces across the country.

Would make for some nice photos for the IOs, when they deport these law breaking foreigners, wouldn't it? (if they were breaking the law...)

 

In the last years there was afaik not any credible news where somebody who was just doing some remote work for a foreign business was deported for this. When people working online were caught in some raid in the past years the people were let go, and not charged for working illegally.

I agree. Thailand isn't actively pursuing online workers. And I don't think anyone cares if someone does some work online while they are here for a few weeks on vacation. In this case the OP actively volunteered that he was working online and wanted to present documents to prove it. Add to that a lot of time here on tourist visas. It's a grey area. He was more vulnerable to the IO's discretion than necessary.

[chilly07]

Inappropriate use of  tourist visas to spend so much time in Thailand working. You need to get an appropriate long term visa and follow the rules concerning exiting and rentering.

[Thaidream]

6 minutes ago, Martyp said:

I agree. Thailand isn't actively pursuing online workers. And I don't think anyone cares if someone does some work online while they are here for a few weeks on vacation. In this case the OP actively volunteered that he was working online and wanted to present documents to prove it. Add to that a lot of time here on tourist visas. It's a grey area. He was more vulnerable to the IO's discretion than necessary

I agree- the IOs are not pursuing on line workers directly but they aredefinitely targetting the demographic of those working in Thailand on line. That would be people in their 20s to 40s. If I was in that age group and wanted to stay in Thailand I would get the Elite Visa.   If I couldn' afford it- I would go someplace where I was welcomed.

 

IMo Thailand just isn;t worth the effort to  depend on chance of getting in; questioning by a sometimes rude IO and generally feeling unwelcome.  There is nothing in Thailand any longer that cannot be found better and cheapr with less hassle.   The Golden days of Thailand from the 70s to the early 2000s are gone and they won't be coming back soon unles there is a change of philosophy in the people in charge.

[Bangkok Barry]

4 hours ago, Onestepforward said:

It could very well be. Am considering an ED visa at this point. 

 

You might be better off considering a country where you are welcomed, rather than warned about coming back to.

[Martyp]

20 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I agree- the IOs are not pursuing on line workers directly but they aredefinitely targetting the demographic of those working in Thailand on line. That would be people in their 20s to 40s. If I was in that age group and wanted to stay in Thailand I would get the Elite Visa.   If I couldn' afford it- I would go someplace where I was welcomed.

 

IMo Thailand just isn;t worth the effort to  depend on chance of getting in; questioning by a sometimes rude IO and generally feeling unwelcome.  There is nothing in Thailand any longer that cannot be found better and cheapr with less hassle.   The Golden days of Thailand from the 70s to the early 2000s are gone and they won't be coming back soon unles there is a change of philosophy in the people in charge.

Yup. There are a few well defined ways for those under 50 can stay here long term. Multiple tourist visas is not one of them.

[BritManToo]

45 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

thaere is no provision for them contributing to a Social Security Scheme or Home country healthcare.

National Insurance payments (British pension) for offshore workers in the Uk is 2.50 GBP/week.

You can set it up to automatically be debited from your bank account, or pay a year at a time, or in arrears up to 5 years. 

Most Euro countries have similar arrangements.

 

[moe666]

3 hours ago, Onestepforward said:

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, if people are showing up for classes and doing what they need to do, does it really matter 'why' they're enrolled? Sure, I would love to learn Thai. And yes, my intention would be to stay longer in the country legitimately. Do they have to be mutually exclusive? The only way I would classify it as abuse is if people sign up for the visa and then never show up for class and follow the outlined procedure. 

Your last sentence says exactly why they have cracked down on education visa. Go for the elite

[Thaidream]

39 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

ational Insurance payments (British pension) for offshore workers in the Uk is 2.50 GBP/week.

You can set it up to automatically be debited from your bank account, or pay a year at a time, or in arrears up to 5 years. 

Most Euro countries have similar arrangements.

The UK and Europe is much more enlightened than my country- USA- there is no provision for doing such a thing . The UK has had Nation Health since the 30s-  the USA has nothing except the higest medical costs in the World and not necessarily the best. 

 

People working in Thailand that cannot get Thai Social Security really need to contribute to their own countries scheme and If American- you best make  big money if you plan on staying in Thailand as a digital nomad because you will not get US Social Security.

 

I fully understand why some people want to live in Thailand and work online- the living is easy and prices still reasonable- but for long term- you are wasting your best earning years making way below your worth.

[somtumwrong]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

The UK and Europe is much more enlightened than my country- USA- there is no provision for doing such a thing . The UK has had Nation Health since the 30s-  the USA has nothing except the higest medical costs in the World and not necessarily the best. 

 

People working in Thailand that cannot get Thai Social Security really need to contribute to their own countries scheme and If American- you best make  big money if you plan on staying in Thailand as a digital nomad because you will not get US Social Security.

 

I fully understand why some people want to live in Thailand and work online- the living is easy and prices still reasonable- but for long term- you are wasting your best earning years making way below your worth.

I really like the last sentence. 'You are wasting your best earning ears making way below your worth' , just amend with '.. if you work in Thailand.' I keep wondering why so many people waste their careers here as teachers and what not. That's the age to make money, build the capital you can later live of (if you want to live in Thailand later.)

[nailbrains8]

6 hours ago, Martyp said:

To work in Thailand you need a work permit. You cannot (officially) work inside Thailand as a digital nomad.

Yes, if you wish to visit Thailand you must give up your business and let it go bust just like every other country you visit on holiday.