"Cheat Sheet" for Longstay Insurance Policies

[Sheryl]

I haven't yet heard any feedback on them.

 

If the idea is that your mother will settle her permanently and if she is currently in good health I'd be inclined to prefer a policy with lifetime renewal than one with renewal to 99.  These days women especially often live past 100.

 

There will by the way be a 3rd plan available with enrollment to age 75 (Bangkok Insurance) but premiums after age 80 are sky high.

[Sheryl]

P.S. I neglected to mention but assuming you yourself are on a long stay visa, rather than coming here on an OA she can come on an O visa to visit family and if the idea is for her to live here permanently, you can then get annual 1 year extensions for her as your dependent,  piggy-backed onto your visa. That removes the Immigration insurance requirement leaving her free to get an international expat policy which would give better value at lower cost and also protect against premium increases based on claims ( Thai policies allow that).

[yamadajr]

Thanks so much Sheryl for your valuable comments.  While my mom is doing great and in good health now, she did have breast cancer in 2011.  I just received a response from Thaivivat and they declined to issue a policy due solely to the breast cancer pre-condition.  So I will be moving on to my next choice at the moment which is Pacific Cross but will need some time to put together all the documents requested.

 

The goal is for her to stay permanently and I am looking at the various options.  I am on a non-O visa with an extension based on married.  However, I am currently not working and still a few years under 50 years old, so I understand that she could not piggy-back off my visa as a dependent in this scenario based on my reading of Immigration Order No. 138/2557 [section 2.18 for my case (married to a Thai national) and section 2.20 for my mother (family member of an alien permitted to stay) - but unfortunately section 2.18 does not apply under 2.20].  If my understanding doesn't sound right, please kindly let me know.

 

If unable to get insurance, the other options are to try to convert her to a non-O visa with extensions based on retirement or the Thai Elite Visa. She is fully moved here and would be unable to easily return back to the US at this stage.  Difficult times indeed....  Thanks again Sheryl for all your efforts on this subject.

Edited November 19, 2019 by yamadajr

[Sheryl]

You don't want her to be here uninsured, neither should you be.  But what policy one would get if seeking best coverage and what would satisfy Imm requirement are unfortunately not the same thing. 

 

As to whether she can get an O to come as your dependent bets to ask @ubonjoe

 

If Imm requirement not an issue, she ought to be able to get an international  policy with exclusion of breast cancer or, at worst, all cancer.  If she has been tested for BRAC gene and has the results that should be submitted to the insurer as well as if there is a question of being BRAC positive that also creates risk for other cancers e.g. ovary.

 

Thai insurers tend to be much less detailed and sophisticated in  risk assessment (but see what PC says.

[yamadajr]

Thanks Sheryl. Do you have any insurance company recommendations for an international policy appropriate for US citizens?  Thank you.

[Sheryl]

 No difference being from US or anywhete else. I already mentioned 3 expat plans.  But for your mother given her age the first 2 aren't options and Cigna Global or Cigna Close Care (both purchased from Cigna UK NOT Cigna US) is best bet.

[yamadajr]

Many thanks.

[OJAS]

On 10/21/2019 at 2:40 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Meanwhile, here's some of the full age range premium lists I have for Pacific Cross and their various regular (non O-A) policies:

 

 

 

 

Do you have links to these lists, please, as I've been unable to unearth them myself through Google searches? And the premium tables in Pacific Cross's Lifestyle Series brochures go no further than the 61-65 age band for some mysterious reason.

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by OJAS

[bttao]

RE: US Health Insurance Valid anywhere in the World

I have my retirement insurance with BCBS which also handle the Medicare part.

So my Health Insurance takes care of health issues in any country abroad through a CORE, set up by and for all the BCBS in the US :

BCBS GLOBAL CORE SERVICE CENTER, which handles all the billings for Services rendered  overseas on par to services rendered in the US.

My question is; had anyone heard of this or used it , and how  to find out if it is accepted by the new health set up in Thailand, as a valid Health Insurance?

My BCBS will increase the maximum pay out from $1,000,000 this year to $2,500,000 starting  1/1/2020 per subscriber... ( I imagine all the BCBS in  the US will do the same  for this category of subscribers.)

 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, bttao said:

RE: US Health Insurance Valid anywhere in the World

I have my retirement insurance with BCBS which also handle the Medicare part.

So my Health Insurance takes care of health issues in any country abroad through a CORE, set up by and for all the BCBS in the US :

BCBS GLOBAL CORE SERVICE CENTER, which handles all the billings for Services rendered  overseas on par to services rendered in the US.

My question is; had anyone heard of this or used it , and how  to find out if it is accepted by the new health set up in Thailand, as a valid Health Insurance?

My BCBS will increase the maximum pay out from $1,000,000 this year to $2,500,000 starting  1/1/2020 per subscriber... ( I imagine all the BCBS in  the US will do the same  for this category of subscribers.)

 

That part is easy to answer as it is the same for all foreign policies.

It can be used for a new OA visa for the first year only i.e. when you first apply for the visa. And for that you are supposed to submit a signed "foreign insurance certificate" that you can find and download from the longstay.tgia website...but it is very, very hard to get companies to sign it due to the wording which references a Thai Cabinet Resolution they obviously have nto and cannot read, among other things.  It might be possible to get the Embassy or Consulate to accept the policy documents without  this "cerrtificate" if you call and explain you have the policy but can't get the certificate signed (they will be getting lots of calls like that) but it is up to them. 

 

If the accept it for your visa application, they will make a notation on the visa giving the policy expiration date and you can only be stamped into Thailand until that date, to go beyond it you would then have to buy a local policy even though you obviously do not need it. So you need to try to synchronize dates if the Embassy is willing to accept your policy.

 

If you could somehow get them to let you pay ahead so that your cover ran for 2 years might possibly then be able to use it for 2 years but not beyond, and it is usually not possible to renew more than 1 year at a time.

 

If Embassy will nto accept this policy you might prefer to get a different type of visa such as multiple entry tourist visa or "O" visa if eligible.

[taxout]

That summary of the BCBS policy doesn't say it covers all medical expenses when you ARE overseas. It says it covers expenses "when you TRAVEL to a foreign country," under a heading that reads "Foreign Travel." You must check the detailed wording of the policy. I strongly suspect there's a provision that effectively excludes those living overseas. For example, Medigap policies that cover foreign medical expenses only do so during the first 60 days of a continuous stay overseas.

 

[florida john]

do you really think the thai immigration officers are going to understand what a "historical policy " is.

on the other hand if its nothing to do with immigration-

pacific cross from my experience is so full of BS.

I got nothing but sales BS from them.

it is their bait and switch routine they tried on me too.

pacific cross ='s buyer be ware

[OJAS]

On 11/30/2019 at 10:23 AM, florida john said:

do you really think the thai immigration officers are going to understand what a "historical policy " is.

on the other hand if its nothing to do with immigration-

pacific cross from my experience is so full of BS.

I got nothing but sales BS from them.

it is their bait and switch routine they tried on me too.

pacific cross ='s buyer be ware

But a major plus with Pacific Cross, in my eyes, is that they are, at least, able to communicate with us expats IN CLEAR ENGLISH - which is a true rarity in this part of the world in my experience. Try any of the other TGIA insurers, and you may well run up against a language barrier that's at least 10 times higher than the wall that ol' Donnie Boy wants to build on the USA/Mexico border!

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, OJAS said:

But a major plus with Pacific Cross, in my eyes, is that they are, at least, able to communicate with us expats IN CLEAR ENGLISH - which is a true rarity in this part of the world in my experience. Try any of the other TGIA insurers, and you may well run up against a language barrier that's at least 10 times higher than the wall that ol' Donnie Boy wants to build on the USA/Mexico border!

 

I can confirm that in the course of developing this chart I had significant problems communicating with and getting info from the insurers on that list with sole exceptions of AETNA and Pacific Cross.

[OJAS]

On 12/11/2019 at 3:48 PM, Sheryl said:

 

I can confirm that in the course of developing this chart I had significant problems communicating with and getting info from the insurers on that list with sole exceptions of AETNA and Pacific Cross.

And my experience of dealing with Pacific Cross' Sales Department could not, in any event, be so completely different to @florida john's. They have, off their own bat, been actively encouraging me to opt for a better-value Lifestyle policy over a rip-off Long Stay Visa one!

[Sheryl]

Experiences can vary with sales agent, in any company.

 

I have just learned that PC underwriters will automatically exclude all prostate conditions and cataracts on new policies for people over a certain age (probably 65 but not sure) even if the person has no prior history of a problem and a no problems or abnormal value on medical exam.

 

I have also gotten reports from people over 65 that a premium load of 25% was added to the published premium for their age bracket for no reason other than "age".  I have been unable to get confirmation or explanation from PC and of course I have no way of knowing for sure that the medical exams of these people did not show things that accounted for the added premium. But do be aware that if you are over 65 (1) there will be these exclusions (and possibly others depending on your medical history and exam results) and (2) you may have to pay a higher premium than that listed on their charts.

 

It is important to understand that the sales and customer service reps are not the underwriters and it is the underwriters who decide whether to issue a policy and at what premium.  Sales rep will try to advise you based on what they think underwriters will offer but they can't know for sure and nothing is certain until you select a specific policy, undergo the exam (if over 65) and get the written offer.

[Tracyb]

My personal experience with Pacific Cross was excellent.  I communicated directly with a company salesman in Bangkok via email and phone.  I submitted all forms and reports by scanning completed forms and sending their PDF files via email.  They required a physical and seven days after I submitted the results they offered me the plan I requested at the quoted premium without additional "mark-up."  I was, as I expected, handed exclusions for items that I revealed on the application which I filled out honestly and completely.   Nothing in the physical exam results affected the policy in terms of exclusions or increased premiums.  I'm 68 years old.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Tracyb

[Sheryl]

57 minutes ago, Tracyb said:

My personal experience with Pacific Cross was excellent.  I communicated directly with a company salesman in Bangkok via email and phone.  I submitted all forms and reports by scanning completed forms and sending their PDF files via email.  They required a physical and seven days after I submitted the results they offered me the plan I requested at the quoted premium without additional "mark-up."  I was, as I expected, handed exclusions for items that I revealed on the application which I filled out honestly and completely.   Nothing in the physical exam results affected the policy in terms of exclusions or increased premiums.  I'm 68 years old.

Where cataracts and all prostate conditions excluded?

[Tracyb]

52 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Where cataracts and all prostate conditions excluded?

Yes they were but ..... I disclosed both issues on my application as preexisting. 

[OJAS]

On 12/15/2019 at 12:47 PM, Tracyb said:

they offered me the plan I requested

To which specific Pacific Cross plan are you referring, please? I am interested in going down the same route as you.

Edited December 27, 2019 by OJAS

[Tracyb]

On 12/27/2019 at 1:39 PM, OJAS said:

To which specific Pacific Cross plan are you referring, please? I am interested in going down the same route as you.

I purchased the Premier Plus with a 40K Baht deductible.  PM me if you want more detail. ???? 

[Khun Falang]

"And then there are those who are abundantly insured but via foreign policies, or who have access to unlimited free health care in Thailand through SS or Tricare". 

 

I am not familiar with Tricare, but SS will not cover you outside of the US. The Medigap policies (supplement to SS or an add-on to SS, however one chooses to term it, only covers "emergencies" and only for the first 60 days of overseas stay. Furthermore, there are many different Medigap plans, and not all of them cover the "emergency" and "first 60 days of overseas stay").

 

I wish that my SS could / would cover me and / or qualify for the Thai immigration requirements, unfortunately it does neither.

 

I do have a question and would appreciate a reply here, from anyone knowledgeable about this matter - If I decide to drop my Retirement visa and instead get the longest tourist visa available, for lets say up to 90 days stay (I believe that in the US I can get a tourist visa for up to 90 days), how will my loss of / giving up on my one year visa, affect my bank account? Will the bank tell me to close my account? I know that the bank will have no knowledge of it until the time comes for me to renew my ATM card, and at such time they will look at my passport and visa. Then what? Anyone has knowledge of the answer?...

 

Thanks.

[Sheryl]

18 hours ago, Khun Falang said:

"And then there are those who are abundantly insured but via foreign policies, or who have access to unlimited free health care in Thailand through SS or Tricare". 

 

I am not familiar with Tricare, but SS will not cover you outside of the US. The Medigap policies (supplement to SS or an add-on to SS, however one chooses to term it, only covers "emergencies" and only for the first 60 days of overseas stay. Furthermore, there are many different Medigap plans, and not all of them cover the "emergency" and "first 60 days of overseas stay").

 

I wish that my SS could / would cover me and / or qualify for the Thai immigration requirements, unfortunately it does neither.

 

I do have a question and would appreciate a reply here, from anyone knowledgeable about this matter - If I decide to drop my Retirement visa and instead get the longest tourist visa available, for lets say up to 90 days stay (I believe that in the US I can get a tourist visa for up to 90 days), how will my loss of / giving up on my one year visa, affect my bank account? Will the bank tell me to close my account? I know that the bank will have no knowledge of it until the time comes for me to renew my ATM card, and at such time they will look at my passport and visa. Then what? Anyone has knowledge of the answer?...

 

Thanks.

 

This refers to THAI Social Security.

[BobBKK]

On 10/22/2019 at 2:36 PM, Sheryl said:

 

It is good news re the deductibles. But why on earth is he saying Standard Plus is not compliant. It is 450/45 so should be. Regular standard of course not, but plus should be. (Though I would advise people to go for a higher level of cover if this will be their only policy and if they can afford to).

Sheryl is our April policy not covered for this?  are you changing to another?  I'm on an 'O' but worried they will apply this madness to 'O's at some point and will need the cover.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Sheryl is our April policy not covered for this?  are you changing to another?  I'm on an 'O' but worried they will apply this madness to 'O's at some point and will need the cover.

 

April Thailand, you can get a letter as the underwriter is on the "list"

 

April International no. No non-Thai policy can be used for extensions.

 

I am on an O visa.  I am nto sure what I will do if the requirement is applied to O visas but for sure I will not drop my excellent policy. I might get a second "throw away" policy or I might change to Elite.  For now, doing nothing.

[SooKee]

Currently shopping around for health insurance and at the moment have it narrowed down (for now) to three companies:

 

Pacific Cross

April (Thailand)

Cigna

Aetna

 

I'm not here on an O-A so that's not my reason for getting it but, as ever, things can always change in Thailand with regard to what types of long term stay will be required to have this kind of cover in the future.  So I'm thinking I may as well get one now that will be likely to comply down the line if anything changes rather than get and April International policy that AFAIK doesn't.  One thing that I think I would need is the Outpatient cover?  Obviously that, along with a 40K deductible, can generate some hefty discounts so I did think to exclude OPD but from what I've read the O-A insurance requires people to have OPD cover?  One option I suppose though would be to buy a policy without OPD for now but then go and add it at a later date for a premium adjustment should requirements with regard to other types of long stay change.  Only thing I do need to think about is whether it is actually wise to exclude OPD at all.

 

Pacific Cross seem to be highly recommended and, while I don't mind going through a broker, their office being in Bangkok makes it easy to go along and chat with staff direct and get into the small print of a policy before buying.  I'm not sure there's much by way of benefit by going through a broker in that case.  AFAIK PC also have a no claims bonus of up to 20% (after 3 years, less before) which is a bonus.  Just one thing that puts me off a little is that I've seen numerous posts regarding the speed and amount by which PC will up the premium if you ever need to claim?  That said, I'm not sure that would apply to just PC unless there are instances of premiums not being increased with companies like Aetna and April.  I guess I'll likely be looking for a level of cover around the Maxima level of plan.

 

Similar to PC, the April offices are also in Bangkok so again easy to visit.  I also briefly looked at Bangkok Insurance but their premiums seem quite high for pretty poor cover compared to the others, I may have not looked deep enough into their policies though.  Cigna is the final option but I've only just started looking at them.

 

I also need to look, again just in case things change, to see whether all the above companies are on the list of Immigration approved underwriters.  I'm 90% certain Aetna and PC are.

Final thing I was considering is accident cover.  There are loads of these around from all manner of sources such as Big C and even the banks.  Again, only just started looking, but it does seem that for the premiums you pay for these accident polices the cover is pitifully low, 30-50K.  I need to look at which, if any, of the Health policies might include accident cover.  I suppose it might be worthwhile getting something like the Bangkok Bank PA 1st Senior just on case you have a low level accident to avoid a claim on main insurance (and the resultant premium hikes) but even then I need to look at the small print as on the info page it says with plan 4, up to 60K of cover per accident for broken bones.  What if you don't break bones but still need stitches or whatever?  I saw a lot of mentions of World Nomads for accident cover but they only seem to offer travel insurance so it surely wouldn't apply if you live in Thailand and have an accident in Thailand.

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

On 2/2/2020 at 1:37 PM, Khun Falang said:

how will my loss of / giving up on my one year visa, affect my bank account? Will the bank tell me to close my account? I know that the bank will have no knowledge of it until the time comes for me to renew my ATM card, and at such time they will look at my passport and visa. Then what? Anyone has knowledge of the answer?...

Short answer no, and I never had to show my passport (and if they did they would only look at the face page anyway) to renew my ATM card, just the fee. 

 

The only problem you will have is that you will not be able to get a Residency Permit on a tourist visa so unless you plan on getting a Thai Drives license or buying or selling a car nothing will change