THAI needs to modify its rehabilitation plan to survive: Sumet

[tso310]

11 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

What are those numbers, and what is your source?

As both Thai and Singapore are both publically quoted companies on their stock exchanges that have to provide regular financial information. Use Google its easy. You might want to try EVA as well. More a/c than Thai and significantly lower staffing levels. 

BTW I first flew Thai in 1983 and have seen it decline from a 5 star airline to its current joke status. If you really want to know one of the catalysts for this take a look at the merger with Thai Airways Company, at the insistance of Gen Prem, and how the merger was done. 

[Bangkok Barry]

34 minutes ago, tso310 said:

As both Thai and Singapore are both publically quoted companies on their stock exchanges that have to provide regular financial information. Use Google its easy. You might want to try EVA as well. More a/c than Thai and significantly lower staffing levels. 

BTW I first flew Thai in 1983 and have seen it decline from a 5 star airline to its current joke status. If you really want to know one of the catalysts for this take a look at the merger with Thai Airways Company, at the insistance of Gen Prem, and how the merger was done. 

 

Thanks. I know how to find the financial information. I'm more interested in your source and numbers concerning the number of freebies you claim the airline gives away.

[nong38]

A national airline should  be a brand of pride and it is for Thais un fortunately it has not made a profit for a long time and we must there fore come to the conclusion that it has not been a well run company. In the real world of private enterprize a company with the track record of Thai Airways would have colapsed and ceased to exist, its only the Government who have stopped that over how many years? Mistakes have been made but no lessons learnt, par for the course in this part of the world, sweep it under the carpet, you canot keep doing this its not fair on the tax payers whose money is funding this disaster. Get a grip, get people who can run the airline right or close it down, if it were my money that's what I would do, but its not my money so I guess nothing will change.

[GinBoy2]

16 hours ago, phkauf said:

I have the same issues with United not able to connect with Thai when I try to buy a ticket. Instead of TG to HK and then United to EWR, I need to fly ANA to Narita and then United to EWR. But if I tried to book with miles, I will see the TG flight option. I think it has something to do with TG and Thailand not in compliance with US FAA regs. Partly why TG cannot fly to the US at the moment.

But in any case TG is hopeless at this point. They are behind in so many areas and the competition is relentless.

The really sad thing is, when my wife booked her ticket through United, she flies directly from San Francisco to Hong Kong on United.

Yet they booked her on a Hong Kong Airlines flight to BKK, which isn't even in Star Alliance rather than a TG flight!

[tso310]

4 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Thanks. I know how to find the financial information. I'm more interested in your source and numbers concerning the number of freebies you claim the airline gives away.

Fair enough. There have been numerous Thai press reports over many years about the generous benefits that Thai give their employees. I've seen Thai people pressuring the check-in and gate staff for upgrades. One time my wife recognised some that were TV chefs and pressurising the gate staff for upgrades on TV. Thaksin certainly tried to cut back on this. I remember the fuss when a Thai senior vice president was told to pay the excess for a rather large load of ceramic tiles he was trying to ship back from Japan and expecting not to pay. Very heavily reported in the Thai press at the time. I think it was during Abhisit's time that it was reported widely about how many of the flights to Europe had significant numbers of business class passengers who were on staff freebies. I think it was quoted that they had 10 free tickets per year but not sure if that was just captains. I heard that it had been reduced but I don't know the current figure as I no longer know anyone connected to Thai.

It the Thai language press that do most of the reporting.

[GinBoy2]

13 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

This one of those stories that will still be going long after all of us are 6ft under.

 

Debt, revenue, incompetence, where does the list end when it comes to this company?

 

It's a zombie company, it's debt makes unsellable, no rational business would take that level of debt, and that in my mind at least is the absolute killer in this equation.

 

The fleet. TG has an obsession with buying a mish mash of aircraft. Most airlines have a balanced fleet of purchased and leased aircraft, which gives them flexibility should business conditions change. That changes the balance sheet from fixed asset depreciation to operating expense.Which is good, so long of course that you can generate operational revenue to cover expense, which TG seems to have a problem with. 

 

They also seem to believe that buying new aircraft, which adds to that structural debt is a panacea.

 

Delta is a classic example of how to milk existing resources. It may not be  young, it may not be pretty, but it's paid for! So whatever revenue you make is all going to the bottom line without having to service debt. One of several reasons they are consistently one of the worlds most profitable airlines.

 

As for employees, let's compare Lufthansa. Germany, a country roughly the same size as Thailand, and you could argue that Frankfurt is a hub similar to Survarnaphumi.

 

Their revenue is similar to Delta, but with the largest number of employees of any of the top 10 airlines, in a high wage area, yet they still seem to be capable of being one of the most profitable airlines in the world.

 

The bottom line is that is not one, even two or three simple answers to the woe's of TG. 

 

In any real world business, it would be time to 'put a bullet in it"

 

 

 

 

Since I forgot to validate the numbers, here's the data. Make of it what you will on the ill's of TG compared to real companies

[The Deerhunter]

On 10/16/2019 at 2:05 AM, Cadbury said:

Out of all that wishful thinking there is not one word mentioned about getting rid of the management deadwood; and there must be plenty of them from the top down.

They are like maggots feeding from a dead carcass.

Not one word?????   "The airline’s president Sumet Damrongchaitham said the first step will be to restructure THAI’s management and finances as well as reconsider its plan to spend Bt1.5 billion on 38 new aircraft." 

[Srikcir]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:09 PM, PatOngo said:

How can an airline within a country of 68 million get to such a state?

Because of the State.

Qantas hasn't been state-owned since the 1990's. THAI should have collapsed a decade ago were it not for frequent government infusion of capital. THAI either needs to cease majority state ownership and become 100% publicly-owned or taken private.

[PatOngo]

6 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Because of the State.

Qantas hasn't been state-owned since the 1990's. THAI should have collapsed a decade ago were it not for frequent government infusion of capital. THAI either needs to cease majority state ownership and become 100% publicly-owned or taken private.

Well that just highlights the efficiency of the State!

[Cadbury]

4 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Not one word?????   "The airline’s president Sumet Damrongchaitham said the first step will be to restructure THAI’s management and finances as well as reconsider its plan to spend Bt1.5 billion on 38 new aircraft." 

Get real????? .....Restructuring means restructuring; it is just a shake up, not a shake out! It does not mean they get rid of the management deadwood. It simply means they rearranged the deckchairs on this sinking ship by reappointing existing management to different positions. Or rearranging the feeding positions around the trough if you prefer

Naivety seems to have struck you down.....do you seriously believe the existing incompetent management will be sacked and just walk away, they are a protected species????? This is a Thai state run government enterprise we are talking here; not a 100% private owned company.

[phkauf]

7 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

The really sad thing is, when my wife booked her ticket through United, she flies directly from San Francisco to Hong Kong on United.

Yet they booked her on a Hong Kong Airlines flight to BKK, which isn't even in Star Alliance rather than a TG flight!

I get the same thing. United to HK and then either Cathay or HK Airlines to BKK, TG is not an option eventho they have flights. There must be some block on United connecting with TG flights on a single ticket - yet another reason TG is hopeless.

My last two trips to the states I just used Cathay for the whole trip and could not have been happier. I despise United in so many ways, their service is just a level above the way UPS treats its cargo.

[UbonEagle]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:09 PM, PatOngo said:

How can an airline within a country of 68 million get to such a state? Meanwhile, not too far away in a country of 26 million: The Qantas Group has achieved an Underlying Profit Before Tax of $1.30 billion and a Statutory Profit Before tax of $1.27 billion for the Financial Year 2019.

 

 

Yes and as we all know, Qantas was also running substantial losses until Joyce came in wielding the axe, breaking down conditions/unions and moving much of the maintenance offshore...now whether that benefits the economy overall is a debate for another day...but it's a pretty clear blueprint for Thai.

 

Also noting the AUS domestic market is much less competitive than SE asia, but clearly Thai have missed huge opportunity during the advent of booming tourism here

[mindfulness]

Not only ‘Thai’ airways. 

 

Thais themselves ‘In general’ all their nationalistic and prejudicial stinking disgusting repugnant racist attitude towards foreigners should make a u turn also before this place becomes a no go zone.  

 

The numbers are dropping due to word of mouth and reports of what can happen in this place. 

 

1. 49 times out of fifty it will always be the foreigners fault and blame will be held at them

 

2. Time the police extortion is swiftly dealt with by their internal affairs. It repugnantly stinks, and the word, and happenings of it sticks. 

 

Theres more and sit a realise how unsafe you are here. 

[The Deerhunter]

7 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Get real????? .....Restructuring means restructuring; it is just a shake up, not a shake out! It does not mean they get rid of the management deadwood. It simply means they rearranged the deckchairs on this sinking ship by reappointing existing management to different positions. Or rearranging the feeding positions around the trough if you prefer

Naivety seems to have struck you down.....do you seriously believe the existing incompetent management will be sacked and just walk away, they are a protected species????? This is a Thai state run government enterprise we are talking here; not a 100% private owned company.

Well, I read it in this forum news so it must be true!   Maybe they need a few jobs for a few more generals who didn't make it onto the 250 seat senate.  

[BobbyL]

If THAI really want to reform the company they should be trying to get Rupert Hogg. However, A - I doubt he would be interested and B - I am sure there is some rule that wouldn't allow a non - Thai to become the CEO of a government owned company. 

[onlycw]

They should start by ending favouritism. No more FREE anything for anyone who is connected. Terminate those who got jobs because of who they knew, not because of their ability.

 

Simplified processes, leaner management structures (in the West, middle management has been cut dramatically)

[wreckingcountry]

Incredible losses and debt! What a joke that nothing serious has been done about it and in all likelihood nothing serious will be done ! A bottomless pit funded by the mad government


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[0815]

Better throw the money into a river ...