Landlord not going to return apartment deposit.

[New beginnings]

25 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

So the deposit can not be a lot of money.  How much is it?

So you told her a lot that you could have kept to yourself and she is using it against you.  Stop talking about anything but the lease issues.

Sounds right to me.  Follow the contract.  Maybe she will, maybe she won't, can't know until it happens.  Clearly she is pushing your buttons successfully now.

 

What does the lease say about this?  Is it clear about it? You have never said, only complained about her position.

And you take that seriously!  I doubt there is anything in the lease about that is there?  Really be reasonable, how can she demand that, how can she even know if you have left the country?  You have every right to make a POA so somebody else can legally handle it for you including recieving the deposit refund and you could be on Mars.

 

The deposit is only 20k Bahts and to be honest I can afford to lose without great hardship. The reason she knows so much about my plans is that we have previously always been on good terms, actually friends on facebook with both her and her husband. We have been shopping together so not strictly a standard landlord / tenant relationship I guess. Indeed, my next door neighbour, a very good friend is renting her husbands apartment based on my introduction and recommendation. The tenancy agreement also clearly states wear and tear is acceptable. The relationship only took a dramatic downturn after I advised intention to end tenancy.

Edited October 25, 2019 by New beginnings

[Dante99]

24 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

46 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

Is insisting that I do not leave Thailand for one month plus 1 day after checkout date. Indeed she has specifically stated I do not book flight,

And you take that seriously!  I doubt there is anything in the lease about that is there?  Really be reasonable, how can she demand that, how can she even know if you have left the country?  You have every right to make a POA so somebody else can legally handle it for you including recieving the deposit refund and you could be on Mars.

and...

[New beginnings]

1 minute ago, Dante99 said:

and...

 

It really wouldn’t be worth appointing POA in my opinion. With regard to me leaving Thailand I suspect that, despite me holding bank account in Thailand, she may insist on meeting face to face to pay in cash. I don’t wish to get other parties involved, apart from letting agents, and merely placed on Forum to get general ideas of my options. Your comments are very much appreciated.

[Bill97]

 
The relationship only took a dramatic downturn after I advised intention to end tenancy.

Or she was successfully putting you on for years!


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Dante99]

4 hours ago, New beginnings said:

she may insist on meeting face to face to pay in cash.

And Clause 7.3.2b of the Lease document states that the lessor has the absolute right to insist and the lessee must comply.

 

You sure she does not have you by the balls about something you have not mentioned? 

[New beginnings]

10 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

And Clause 7.3.2b of the Lease document states that the lessor has the absolute right to insist and the lessee must comply.

 

You sure she does not have you by the balls about something you have not mentioned? 

 

Certainly no such condition is included in my tenancy agreement. Clause 7.3.2b only confirms how rent payments are to be paid.

 

As stated previously I think this is more to do with her trying to hold deposit for full month knowing this will incur additional cost to me particularly when she has already indicated that full deposit will not be returned.

 

For information I have pasted below message received from her which I received after querying why deposit would not be returned within 15 days as stated in tenancy agreement which you may find surprising:-

 

“If you can you might stay in my other room in xxxxxxx condo for month before you leave Thailand. That is a room for me and my family to travel in CM. Not free but can rent for short time”

 

 

 

 

[Just Weird]

On 10/23/2019 at 9:30 PM, New beginnings said:

 

Its not actually a question. She advised that if I leave Thailand she will not repay the security deposit to an overseas bank.

So she's not refusing to refund your deposit after all, she will refund it to your local bank.  

[New beginnings]

1 minute ago, Just Weird said:

So she's not refusing to refund your deposit after all, she will refund it to your local bank.  

No she has not agreed to refund to my Thai bank account but insisting that I remain in Thailand for one month plus one day in the meantime trying to get me to rent one of her other apartments for a further month.

[New beginnings]

If I could get her to agree to refund deposit to my Thai bank account I would be happy and not mind if delayed for 1 month as I am only moving to Cambodia and will be keeping account open for when I visit Thailand in the future.

[Dante99]

5 hours ago, New beginnings said:

No she has not agreed to refund to my Thai bank account but insisting that I remain in Thailand for one month plus one day in the meantime trying to get me to rent one of her other apartments for a further month.

You really do like to let her "insist".  And when she does you just comply.  Why bother asking for help?

Edited October 25, 2019 by Dante99

[New beginnings]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

You really do like to let her "insist".  And when she does you just comply.  Why bother asking for help?

 

HI Dante - Believe me I am most certainly not complying. Not only am I contacting revenue department to check that she has paid all appropriate taxes on rental income received for the past 6 years but also approaching the Thailand Office of the Consumer Protection Board (OCPD) to find out what assistance they may be able to offer based on the very kind information received by forum members. It would be a mistake to think that I am the type of person to just roll over. The letting agents have also agreed to contact her to find out why she is proposing to hold on to security deposit for 1 month in breach of the tenancy agreement.

[richard_smith237]

Gawd... if this thread is anything to go by you have probably annoyed the $**t out of your landlady... 

 

What seems to have started out as a suggestion, even a poorly worded offer of assistance to stay in another room etc has manifested itself into perceived no return of deposit. 

 

And now you've convinced yourself that you will not get the deposit back and are ready to make threats?

 

Treat any landlord like that and they will likely make life a little bit more of a headache for you. 

 

Relax - step back and look at the level of neuroticism in your posts... You'll get your deposit back, just don't be a right PITA about it and tempt fate. 

 

 

[New beginnings]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Gawd... if this thread is anything to go by you have probably annoyed the $**t out of your landlady... 

 

What seems to have started out as a suggestion, even a poorly worded offer of assistance to stay in another room etc has manifested itself into perceived no return of deposit. 

 

And now you've convinced yourself that you will not get the deposit back and are ready to make threats?

 

Treat any landlord like that and they will likely make life a little bit more of a headache for you. 

 

Relax - step back and look at the level of neuroticism in your posts... You'll get your deposit back, just don't be a right PITA about it and tempt fate. 

 

 

I suggest you actually read the full comments and not just make unfounded assumptions. How you have managed to place full blame on me when you have obviously not read all the comments is beyond me. All the threats regarding non return of security deposit have been by landlord not me.

[kingofthemountain]

Another topic from 2016 on the forum

this sort of issues never get old here

 

 

[NancyL]

It's only 20,000 baht, right?  Ours was a little higher but not much.

 

When we recently vacated our rental condo, our landlord came by a month or so before we planned to move to check over the place after I'd sent him an email advising that some routine maintenance needed to be done after we'd been in the place for 8 years.  (Like re-grouting the floor tiles, modernizing the bathroom, splashing on a new coat of wall paint, fixing some damage our cats had done, etc). 

 

As he was looking around, one of our cats started to sharpen her claws on a window screen and I stopped her, saying "you're the reason we're not getting our deposit back".  Which truly we didn't think we'd ever see after eight years of wear and tear.  The landlord looked surprised that I'd say that in front of him.

 

Imagine our shock when he showed up at our new place a couple months later with an envelope and itemized statement of the work that had been done in our old place with a refund of about half our deposit. 

[YoungBrit]

11 hours ago, NancyL said:

It's only 20,000 baht, right?  Ours was a little higher but not much.

 

When we recently vacated our rental condo, our landlord came by a month or so before we planned to move to check over the place after I'd sent him an email advising that some routine maintenance needed to be done after we'd been in the place for 8 years.  (Like re-grouting the floor tiles, modernizing the bathroom, splashing on a new coat of wall paint, fixing some damage our cats had done, etc). 

 

As he was looking around, one of our cats started to sharpen her claws on a window screen and I stopped her, saying "you're the reason we're not getting our deposit back".  Which truly we didn't think we'd ever see after eight years of wear and tear.  The landlord looked surprised that I'd say that in front of him.

 

Imagine our shock when he showed up at our new place a couple months later with an envelope and itemized statement of the work that had been done in our old place with a refund of about half our deposit. 

Yep, certainly a lot of fair ones out there too.

[richard_smith237]

20 hours ago, New beginnings said:

I suggest you actually read the full comments and not just make unfounded assumptions. How you have managed to place full blame on me when you have obviously not read all the comments is beyond me. All the threats regarding non return of security deposit have been by landlord not me.

Has your landlady threatened not to return your deposit at all? I haven't that in your comments, maybe I missed it.

 

You wrote that you  landlady has mentioned that it will take more than a month to return the deposit - not ideal, but hardly worth being a princess about it.

 

So your complaint is about the delay of payment and that she has 'insisted' you stay an extra month in one of her apartments. 

 

Are you sure she insisted and didn't just 'suggest' that if you wish to stay she has a place for you?

 

The reason I am inferring this is that you have come across as being somewhat neurotic and may well have over reacted. 

 

So.. in taking a step back, are you certain you've not misinterpreted the situation and in doing so somehow alienated yourself and are now over reacting ?

 

 

 

 

 

[New beginnings]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Has your landlady threatened not to return your deposit at all? I haven't that in your comments, maybe I missed it.

 

You wrote that you  landlady has mentioned that it will take more than a month to return the deposit - not ideal, but hardly worth being a princess about it.

 

So your complaint is about the delay of payment and that she has 'insisted' you stay an extra month in one of her apartments. 

 

Are you sure she insisted and didn't just 'suggest' that if you wish to stay she has a place for you?

 

The reason I am inferring this is that you have come across as being somewhat neurotic and may well have over reacted. 

 

So.. in taking a step back, are you certain you've not misinterpreted the situation and in doing so somehow alienated yourself and are now over reacting ?

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t know you, and you don’t know me. For you to accuse me of being neurotic is insulting. If you had bothered to actually read all the comments you would see that all threats regarding deposit not being returned have been made by the landlord. There have been over 100 comments on this post and, so far, you have been the only individual who has not provided a sensible solution but chosen to make accusations against me. Has it not occurred to you that if the landlord had not intimated that she was looking to avoid returning my security deposit I would not have started this post seeking advise from forum members. Regrettably it is people like you that stop others seeking advise on the forum. I suggest if you have not got any suggestions of help perhaps you should keep your unnecessary and unhelpful comments to yourself.

[richard_smith237]

45 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

I don’t know you, and you don’t know me. For you to accuse me of being neurotic is insulting. If you had bothered to actually read all the comments you would see that all threats regarding deposit not being returned have been made by the landlord. There have been over 100 comments on this post and, so far, you have been the only individual who has not provided a sensible solution but chosen to make accusations against me. Has it not occurred to you that if the landlord had not intimated that she was looking to avoid returning my security deposit I would not have started this post seeking advise from forum members. Regrettably it is people like you that stop others seeking advise on the forum. I suggest if you have not got any suggestions of help perhaps you should keep your unnecessary and unhelpful comments to yourself.

Apologies if you found the wording [neurotic] an insult, I didn't want to use phrases such as acting immaturely. 

 

The sensible solution I have provided is to relax, be patient and stop over reacting... (as you have done to my post and more so to the situation)... you are coming across as being neurotic, and if you are the same with your landlady you are building barriers and resistance instead of placing your best foot forwards and being patient. 

 

I ask this: Has your landlady said outright that she will not return the deposit?

Or, has your landlady just said she will return the deposit after 4 weeks? where as you want it in two weeks?

 

Regrettably, it seems, you want people to agree with you in your actions to fight perceived fire with fire, you are getting very hung up on what you yourself described above as nothing more than 'intimation'.... which is just perception, its down your interpretation of the situation, which given your accusatory state and if this thread is anything to go by, an apparent tendency to overreact, it may well have be a misinterpretation. 

 

Comeback in 4 weeks once your deposit has been returned and read how you have made a mountain out of a molehill. 

 

The advice still stands - Don't go head to head with someone holding the cards, don't make threats and escalate a simple situation, play it calm, sit back and relax - your deposit will be returned - just not as quickly as you want. 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by richard_smith237

[NancyL]

The OP has been in the apartment for six years.  The owner's request for one month delay in returning the deposit seems reasonable if work needs to be done.  How else is the owner going to know how much to deduct from the deposit?  

 

In our case it took two months to get a partial (and unexpected) refund of our deposit, but the owner did a major remodel of the bathroom during that time -- that didn't come out of our deposit, incidentally.  In the end, he charged us for reasonable items, like repair of window screens and refinishing woodwork -- all caused by our cats, the little dears.

[richard_smith237]

8 hours ago, NancyL said:

The OP has been in the apartment for six years.  The owner's request for one month delay in returning the deposit seems reasonable if work needs to be done.  How else is the owner going to know how much to deduct from the deposit?  

 

In our case it took two months to get a partial (and unexpected) refund of our deposit, but the owner did a major remodel of the bathroom during that time -- that didn't come out of our deposit, incidentally.  In the end, he charged us for reasonable items, like repair of window screens and refinishing woodwork -- all caused by our cats, the little dears.

Agreed - the Op has been getting very upset that his landlady has mentioned that it will take a month. 

I don't see that she has refused to return his deposit, but the Op has mentioned that she has 'intimated' that she may not return it. 

 

I suspect most of this issue is in the ops mind, he seems to have over-reacted somewhat and seems butt-hut by any comments expressing viewpoints which don't match his. 

 

[amykat]

I think one thing the OP is not understanding is that his landlord probably doesn’t have the money.  That deposit we leave, especially if you use an agent, or friend to help you, gets used immediately to pay their commission.  So it is gone.  It is not being held somewhere.  The rent you paid is gone every month.  
 

Now she may have cash flow problems due to missing your rent every month, fixing up your place to rent again, and now you want 20,000 too.  She is thinking of ideas how to make some money ...well maybe if you rent her other place for one month, that will give her some cash to pay you.

 

Threatening her with tax problems is not going to help this situation.  I think overall if you didn’t get it back, that added 277 baht a month to your rent over 6 years.  Don’t pay your last utilities that will save a bit.  Maybe start to be nice and try to negotiate a partial payment, ask for half or 5000 before you leave.  Make an excuse why you need help.  Resign yourself to a recovery mission of whatever you can get and try a different style.

[amykat]

Also, that whole month and one day thing ....maybe that is when she has some money coming in from payments she gets.  She is making it about you, you are making it about you ...but it is really all about her lack of cash flow.  She will never admit that.

[fhickson]

when i used a lettiing agent they were working for both parties.

 

if there is a problem definately approach the agent about it. even if they are not holding the deposit they have leverage.

 

thats why i used an agent in the first place. they are a middleman.

[amykat]

I used to think that also about an agent working for me to some extent, the one time I tried to use one.  I got scammed the most that time, from the landlord directly who was a professor at a major university.  The agents work for the landlord.  The landlord provides repeated business, without giving them a house to put up for rent, they have nothing.  Plus they are Thai.  The deposits some of you see them get and think they hold, that is just them getting paid their commission.  That is what your deposit is used for.  Most people only use an agent once as renters because it is much more expensive and provides nothing.

[rumak]

On 10/26/2019 at 12:23 AM, NancyL said:

Imagine our shock when he showed up at our new place a couple months later with an envelope and itemized statement of the work that had been done in our old place with a refund of about half our deposit. 

Nancy, was your landlord Thai or a foreigner ?

[rumak]

On 10/27/2019 at 8:24 PM, richard_smith237 said:

I suspect most of this issue is in the ops mind, he seems to have over-reacted somewhat and seems butt-hut by any comments expressing viewpoints which don't match his. 

Well,  you have just about summed up what is wrong with the world in general  ????

( with our beloved forum just a small piece of the puzzle)

The best advice ever is for people to TRY to stay calm,  Try to see both sides,  and TRY to

work things out amiably.   

Our rentals have gone much more smoothly as we have improved as landlords and also in choosing renters that we think might be a good fit .   

 

[rumak]

On 10/26/2019 at 8:14 PM, richard_smith237 said:

The advice still stands - Don't go head to head with someone holding the cards, don't make threats and escalate a simple situation, play it calm, sit back and relax

the quickest way to get someone riled up is to tell them to relax     ????

[Max69xl]

On 10/27/2019 at 11:09 PM, amykat said:

I used to think that also about an agent working for me to some extent, the one time I tried to use one.  I got scammed the most that time, from the landlord directly who was a professor at a major university.  The agents work for the landlord.  The landlord provides repeated business, without giving them a house to put up for rent, they have nothing.  Plus they are Thai.  The deposits some of you see them get and think they hold, that is just them getting paid their commission.  That is what your deposit is used for.  Most people only use an agent once as renters because it is much more expensive and provides nothing.

If you're renting a condo from a well-known real estate agent, there will be no problem what so ever when it comes to paying back the deposit when moving out. 

[fhickson]

On 10/27/2019 at 11:09 PM, amykat said:

I used to think that also about an agent working for me to some extent, the one time I tried to use one.  I got scammed the most that time, from the landlord directly who was a professor at a major university.  The agents work for the landlord.  The landlord provides repeated business, without giving them a house to put up for rent, they have nothing.  Plus they are Thai.  The deposits some of you see them get and think they hold, that is just them getting paid their commission.  That is what your deposit is used for.  Most people only use an agent once as renters because it is much more expensive and provides nothing.

goto a legit agent and you wont have a problem. the ones where you all sit down at the lease signing or with landlords agent and go over the contract which should be in english and thai and everyone gets copies. can you read? thats another thread.

 

i have not found a race card in my dealings using agents. even in vietnam i was able to secure deposit return. well worth the cost of commission.

 

plus, they drive you around for free to look at places which saves an immense amount of time and effort in hot climates where you may not have transpo and gps etc.

 

stop using flaky agents, or get flaked on. you flake.