UK police find 39 bodies in a truck container

[rott]

17 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

And you know that do you? They were conned and coerced into getting into the back of that truck. Do you really think they would have got in willingly if they knew their fate?

 

The one cockle picker that was allowed to remain in the UK, gave extensive evidence against the gangmasters which saw them get lengthly prison sentences. He entered the witness protection scheme and it was aknowleged that, had he returned to China, he wouldn't have lasted a day. The Triads who ran the whole show would have seen to that.

 

Both the deceased in the lorry and the cockle pickers were victims. Anyone who says otherwise is callous beyond belief.

Of course they were victims.

But a Chinese lawyer based in London has just said that they were not economic migrants but people coming to join families already here. They were not eligible for visas so they decided to do it this way.

Fact or his opinion remains to be seen.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, rott said:

Of course they were victims.

But a Chinese lawyer based in London has just said that they were not economic migrants but people coming to join families already here. They were not eligible for visas so they decided to do it this way.

Fact or his opinion remains to be seen.

Hard to see how he knows this as their identities haven't yet been established.

 

Maybe he's a lawyer acting for the Triad gangs who brought them here.

[Opl]

10 minutes ago, rott said:

Of course they were victims.

But a Chinese lawyer based in London has just said that they were not economic migrants but people coming to join families already here. They were not eligible for visas so they decided to do it this way.

Fact or his opinion remains to be seen.

If it's true - which I doubt - they'd be still alive had they used the tourist route. So they were illegal economic migrants like many from other chinese diasporas in Europe. 

They'll come and work for chinese companies ( "japanese" restaurants, "massage" parlours, impex..textile fabrics..  a.s.o…) which anyway  won't employ UK citizens.. 7/7

Edited October 25, 2019 by Opl

[metisdead]

A number of off topic political bickering posts and replies have been removed.

 

 

Edit:  Some more off topic posts and inflammatory replies have been removed. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by metisdead

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The tax payer via funding to the criminal justice system.

 

You want a criminal justice system to tackle crime, it costs money.

Which, as usual, was my point ????

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

Which, as usual, was my point ????

And not unusually was of little if any significance.

 

Unless of course you are arguing the UK should not pursue illegal immigrants, because be assured there will always be illegal immigration.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m sure you are aware assumption is the mother of many ‘children’.

 

Best to await the outcome of the investigation.

When did it last stop you?

[Opl]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The funds available to pay for public services, housing, transport, schools, the NHS come from taxation.

 

HMRC are not fussy who they take taxes off, citizens or immigrants it’s all the same to the HMRC.

 

The size of the tax take is directly dependent upon the size of the economy and immigrants, legal or otherwise contribute to the economy.

 

 

 

 

People who paid smugglers to illegally immigrate to Europe, pay or reimburse their fees to them before they - eventually - contribute by paying taxes, how would they do anyway? Chinese businesses in Europe know how to avoid paying taxes too. That's the reality of making their business profitable : sell cheap and a lot, pay no taxes, underpay the workers , sell your established successfull business to another fellow countryman, start a new one and repeat, you'll need new workers, etc.. etc...  

Edited October 25, 2019 by Opl

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, evadgib said:

When did it last stop you?

I’ll accept an example of an assumption I have made in this thread.

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And not unusually was of little if any significance.

 

Unless of course you are arguing the UK should not pursue illegal immigrants, because be assured there will always be illegal immigration.

You haven't a clue what I'm talking about...Again

 

I'm done with the thread. It's all yours ????

Edited October 25, 2019 by evadgib

[johnnybangkok]

3 hours ago, JamesBlond said:

Care to declare why you support illegal immigration?

I don’t. 
I do however support legal immigration and asylum seekers. 
You’re the one adding “illegal”. 

[rott]

China is blaming "GB" for the problem, even though all 39 were said to be dead 12 hours before the container arrived in England. And the driver who collected it at the port is not from "GB".

[rott]

3 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

Hard to see how he knows this as their identities haven't yet been established.

 

Maybe he's a lawyer acting for the Triad gangs who brought them here.

He was basing it on a theory that there are no longer any economic migrants from China as there as are enough well paid jobs there now, there is no need.

He says the problem is tough visa requirements.

[rott]

3 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

Hard to see how he knows this as their identities haven't yet been established.

 

Maybe he's a lawyer acting for the Triad gangs who brought them here.

He was basing it on a theory that there are no longer any economic migrants from China as there as are enough well paid jobs there now, there is no need.

He says the problem is tough visa requirements.

[Opl]

3 minutes ago, rott said:

He was basing it on a theory that there are no longer any economic migrants from China as there as are enough well paid jobs there now, there is no need.

He says the problem is tough visa requirements.

"There are enough well paid jobs there now…"  This statement needs to be adjusted in regards of China's Policy towards its own internal migrants  

"China has over 150 million official internal migrants. People migrate to improve their lifestyles and because they are encouraged to do so by their government."

" China's economy grew by 6.0 per cent in the third quarter of 2019, the lowest quarterly growth rate since records began in March 1992". 

China's economic slowdown: How bad is it?

[elliss]

On 10/24/2019 at 12:36 PM, Dumbastheycome said:

Maybe they should include "expectant Expats" ?

 

     Put my name on that list. I expect to return to my beloved home country soon. 

      Free NHS, housing  , hearing aid , glasses, my health  is fading fast .  I paid more than enough income tax. 

        I need to get my savings under £16,000 to qualify for the full monty .  Pattaya ?... 

        

 

        

      

Edited October 25, 2019 by elliss

[DannyCarlton]

4 hours ago, rott said:

He was basing it on a theory that there are no longer any economic migrants from China as there as are enough well paid jobs there now, there is no need.

He says the problem is tough visa requirements.

There are a number of provinces in China where there is extreme poverty. Subsequent to the deaths of the cockle pickers, film crews visited the homes of the families that they'd left behind in China. The poverty was worse than anything I've seen in SE Asia and I've seen some pretty severe poverty here.

 

The lawyer is talking out of his backside. Why? Draw your own conclusions.

Edited October 25, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[Opl]

 

Essex lorry deaths: police arrest Warrington couple. "Bulgarian TV has named Joanna Maher, 38, from Warrington, as an owner of the Scania lorry cab at the centre of the investigation. She and her husband, Thomas, also 38, who is reportedly a haulage boss, told reporters they had owned the cab but sold it 13 months ago to a company in County Monaghan, near where Robinson lives."

The man and woman, both 38 and from Warrington, were arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to traffic people and on suspicion of 39 counts of manslaughter, Essex police said.

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Opl

[roo860]

According to BBC News, their could be a number of Vietnamese included in the fatalities

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[Andrew Dwyer]

According to BBC News, their could be a number of Vietnamese included in the fatalities

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Yes, according to the link here sounds like 3 Vietnamese likely to be among the victims. All 3 last heard from in Belgium stating they were entering a container.
One poor girl reported as messaging her mother saying she couldn’t breathe and feared she would die .

Essex lorry deaths: Vietnamese families fear relatives among dead https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50185788

[Scott]

An inflammatory and insensitive post has been removed.   Continue and face a suspension.  

 

[ChipButty]

They say Pham Tra My, 26, sent the message on Tuesday night and they have not been able to contact her since. They said they had paid £30,000 for her to be smuggled to Britain.

[bert bloggs]

2 hours ago, ChipButty said:

They say Pham Tra My, 26, sent the message on Tuesday night and they have not been able to contact her since. They said they had paid £30,000 for her to be smuggled to Britain.

Now if you can afford 30,000 pounds to go to Britain illegally ,you must be quite rich in Vietnam,so why not go the legal route?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Now if you can afford 30,000 pounds to go to Britain illegally ,you must be quite rich in Vietnam,so why not go the legal route?

You do understand that the ‘fee’ is not money handed over to make the journey but a debt of servitude signed up to?!

 

The criminals pay the fees and then milk the immigrants and their families.

[White Christmas13]

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/authorities-slammed-for-failing-to-act-before-uk-port-truck-deaths/news-story/a2a5a6d86f961477079873ee326d1a6b

[ivor bigun]

You do understand that the ‘fee’ is not money handed over to make the journey but a debt of servitude signed up to?!
 
The criminals pay the fees and then milk the immigrants and their families.

Did she say that? Or are you assuming it,i read that they had PAID 30k

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 10/24/2019 at 8:06 PM, kingdong said:

The figures you quote are known immigrants,how many are here illegally?

You do understand the definition of an illegal immigrant, don't you? It's someone who is undocumented, unregistered and has either come into or remained in the country without the permission or knowledge of the authorities. Being subject to detention and deportation if discovered, they do their level best to stay hidden and undetected. So it is by definition, impossible to get an accurate figure of how many there are. 

 

Various people have used various methodologies to estimate their numbers but the estimates vary widely.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 10/24/2019 at 9:06 PM, elliss said:

 

 You mean UK benefits , free housing , health care etc .

    Remove the magnetic attraction , and this loss of lives , would  not have happened. RIP..

We're talking about illegal immigrants here. Illegal immigrants don't get housing, state benefits etc because they're, well - illegal. Also, only permanent residents (and again, you have to have some kind of legal status to have that) get free health care in the UK.

 

It's also a myth that Britain is this overwhelmingly attractive destination for migrants (either legal or illegal). According to Eurostat, the UK is not high in the league of preferred destinations. It is the 8th regarding highest number of applications and 17th regarding existing population (applicants per 1,000 head of population.)

Edited October 26, 2019 by GroveHillWanderer

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

Did she say that? Or are you assuming it,i read that they had PAID 30k

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Not if the hypocrisy in #117 is to be believed ????

Edited October 26, 2019 by evadgib

[Orton Rd]

3 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

We're talking about illegal immigrants here. Illegal immigrants don't get housing, state benefits etc because they're, well - illegal. Also, only permanent residents (and again, you have to have some kind of legal status to have that) get free health care in the UK.

 

Not true I know from personal experience illegals have gotten public housing and health care. Getting free health care you are not entitled to in the UK is child's play, when was the last time you heard of any ID being asked for? When I took my NHS card into the surgery to update the address they said they had never seen one and not to bother. Not being entitled to and what really goes on are two different things, too many with 'compassion & empathy' only makes the situation worse.