There is now ZERO doubt that I will continue to learn Passa Thai until the day I (so sadly) die.

[cornishcarlos]

9 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

even if it is a somewhat lazier way of asking the question.

 

Thais are inherently lazy... My wife and family (south east) chop half of every word off !!

Therefore Samui becomes just mui !! Very difficult to get your head around ????

[Thian]

5 hours ago, MisterBleach said:

Wow!

Eats the big carrot?

I have never heard that before.

 

However, you are entirely justified in feeling stressed, and I can easily empathize with you.

 

When I used to walk with one of my wives on the streets, and this was before I divorced my wife, she was often insulted, and she was also not Thai.

 

My best advice is to ignore these slurs, slings, and arrows.

So Never take the longtailboat from nonthaburi pier to Koh Kret....those drivers are sitting there together and doing this...now you know how they think of us westerners.

 

Another time on a market my wife walked 5 meter behind me, a salesgirl saw me while she was on the phone, she spoke throught the phone to her friend that she saw an extremely good looking farang, she had never seen such a hot one before..serious...my wife was behind me and heard that all and had to laugh so much.....????

[david143]

9 hours ago, Thian said:

Phut passa thai mai? That's how they ask me if i can do it.

K.Bleech Perfect reply .

btw just a little bit correction for you.

Its PHA-SAA not PA-SAA.
ภา PHA
ษา SAA
ภ Pho-Sam-Phao
า Salaa AAH
ษ Soh Rea See
า Salaa AAH

 

[1FinickyOne]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

not learning 'speak English' and having 'Speak English' lessons... 

 

You are learning Thai, not learning 'Passa Thai'...  however.

pas-sa is language and I hear it all the time - - poot pas-sa Thai dai mai? 

 

 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

7 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Thais are inherently lazy... My wife and family (south east) chop half of every word off !!

Therefore Samui becomes just mui !! Very difficult to get your head around ????

Yeh I tend to agree, many Thais are lazy in their pronunciation, you can hear plenty of examples of it daily, particularly if you understand the language. There are differing degrees, however.

My missus is from Kanchanaburi and speaks quite purposefully, wouldn't say she is lazy in her speech whatsoever. Her family are Burmese/Thai and the way they speak Thai is very different to the way Thais speak central Thai, it's a lot more melodic.

 

Some languages are simply more that way inclined I think too. My old man always used to say Portugese is like a lethargic version of Spanish. He seems to have a point, when you listen to them speak. ???? 

[1FinickyOne]

15 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Oh dear! So, here you are clearly stating that passa Thai, is sam like speak English? Really. If you want speak, then the word would be "phut" and is you want language then the word would be "passa"

took thong - - score one for Rasta Mon... you are correct.

[carlyai]

A foreigner already older then 7 years of age and is beginning with learning the Thai language will never master the 5 different tones correctly.
So i wish u goodluck !

Yep tones a problem, but if you make the sentences longer, it gives the Thai person time to make some context of what is said.

AND, I used to seldom use the common word for dog (ma), because there are a few ma's ...dog, horse etc. If you use 'sunuuk' then people will know you mean dog.
Same for money (ng) I can never get the sound correct when refering to money, so I use 'satang'.

Just me, but I probobly wouldn't have the trouble if I made my sentences longer. [emoji848]

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[Kelsall]

Anyone can learn Thai easily.  Just move here when you are five years old.

[ChakaKhan]

5 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

Wait until OP's Thai gets really good and he can suddenly understand that 80% of what people talk about is food and discount coupons and 10% about problems with Farang.

 

Not an intellectually stimulating conversation to be found in the abyss

You tink too mutt!!  ????  Why you no sleep?!

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, BestB said:

Lesson 2. There is nothing beautiful about it. Its a nasal, annoying tonal language. there is NO grammar for time and not a rich language to explain or describe, perfect example is Diarrhea, in Thai its <deleted>(poop) exploding(Kee-Tak)

"there is NO grammar for time"

There is go back to school. 

[tgeezer]

18 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

I think your spot on with regard to Thai definitely being an 'isolating language' if that is the correct term to use? 

 

'combinations of words or context is required to give more meaning'  - the context is what counts and is often paramount when speaking Thai because of its tonal nature, in that - if you use the wrong tonal intonation for a word it completely changes the meaning of that word, however if the context is clear enough it shouldn't confuse the other party you're conversing with, that's not always the case though as we can probably all confirm.

 

If we say pha'sa Thai we mean Thai language, if we say khon Thai we mean Thai person/people, ahaan Thai - Thai cuisine etc. etc., but the fact that the noun/adjective 'Thai' - when used in conjunction with the verb phood is clearly referencing the language (as what else would you use the verb to 'speak' with?) then it seems perfectly acceptable to drop the noun pha'sa - and this is clearly demonstrated by the number of Thais who do in fact say 'phood Thai dai mai?', even if it is a somewhat lazier way of asking the question.

I can not gainsay any of that but I study grammar and try to see how language comes to be used in the way that it is. I am happy to use the language wrongly but need to know the correct grammar so that I can discuss things.  It is obvious that no context is required in พูดบ้านนอก but other verbs are not so easy and grammar by definition is universal within a language.  To call Thai or English for that matter an adjective in the Thai grammar context is wrong. Those nouns change meaning and without knowing how they do that One can’t drop them. 

I can see that you are literate in Thai and I agree that context is paramount but I don’t agree that it is because of tones.  Tones change the word.  This is why it is difficult discussing Thai with people who are new learners they will say that มะ มา ม้า หมา หม่า หม้า are the same word meaning different things until they hear the differences.  

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

26 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

I can not gainsay any of that but I study grammar and try to see how language comes to be used in the way that it is. I am happy to use the language wrongly but need to know the correct grammar so that I can discuss things.  It is obvious that no context is required in พูดบ้านนอก but other verbs are not so easy and grammar by definition is universal within a language.  To call Thai or English for that matter an adjective in the Thai grammar context is wrong. Those nouns change meaning and without knowing how they do that One can’t drop them. 

I can see that you are literate in Thai and I agree that context is paramount but I don’t agree that it is because of tones.  Tones change the word.  This is why it is difficult discussing Thai with people who are new learners they will say that มะ มา ม้า หมา หม่า หม้า are the same word meaning different things until they hear the differences.  

'To call Thai or English for that matter an adjective in the Thai grammar context is wrong' - I meant this in the context of English grammar to be fair, not Thai. As English and Thai are of course both nouns and adjectives in English grammar, I believe they also are in Thai, but I will admit that my depth of knowledge of the framework of Thai grammar is not extensive, simply because from my understanding and practice of it it, is a language that is very often devoid of it, at least in comparison to English. 

 

'Those nouns change meaning and without knowing how they do that One can’t drop them' Fair point, but my earlier one was that the Thais themselves are happy to drop the noun pha'sa and simply use Thai - this is because the verb 'phood' preceeds it, so this is an example of context being important and it not being related to tone, as you say. However, the other point I made about the importance of context in relation to tone was to highlight that one's incorrect use of tone is what implicates the importance of the context -or- the situation one finds oneself in, this is then (usually) what decides whether the Thai speaker is able to comprehend your statement/question. That is the problem for non-tonal language speakers when speaking a tonal language, it is also why Thais are always easily identifiable to me when speaking English, they (unlike their neighbours - Khmers, Burmese) speak foreign languages - let's say English - with a very melodic lilt to their intonation, a surefire sign of someone whose mother tongue is a tonal one.

[tgeezer]

36 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

'To call Thai or English for that matter an adjective in the Thai grammar context is wrong' - I meant this in the context of English grammar to be fair, not Thai. As English and Thai are of course both nouns and adjectives in English grammar, I believe they also are in Thai, but I will admit that my depth of knowledge of the framework of Thai grammar is not extensive, simply because from my understanding and practice of it it, is a language that is very often devoid of it, at least in comparison to English. 

 

'Those nouns change meaning and without knowing how they do that One can’t drop them' Fair point, but my earlier one was that the Thais themselves are happy to drop the noun pha'sa and simply use Thai - this is because the verb 'phood' preceeds it, so this is an example of context being important and it not being related to tone, as you say. However, the other point I made about the importance of context in relation to tone was to highlight that one's incorrect use of tone is what implicates the importance of the context -or- the situation one finds oneself in, this is then (usually) what decides whether the Thai speaker is able to comprehend your statement/question. That is the problem for non-tonal language speakers when speaking a tonal language, it is also why Thais are always easily identifiable to me when speaking English, they (unlike their neighbours - Khmers, Burmese) speak foreign languages - let's say English - with a very melodic lilt to their intonation, a surefire sign of someone whose mother tongue is a tonal one.

A very good point which I had not considered.  

When it comes to dropping words I suppose it means that if one learns on the coalface as it were, dropping words is automatic. I bet you remember the disappointment of being misunderstood. I lost that on hearing a retired NCO and retired colonel conversing, It seemed as though the NCO was not supplying all the information in one go, They went back and forth It seemed to me in spite of my not being able to understand more than a few words. 

Thanks for the fun. 

[1FinickyOne]

7 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

Wait until OP's Thai gets really good and he can suddenly understand that 80% of what people talk about is food and discount coupons and 10% about problems with Farang.

 

Not an intellectually stimulating conversation to be found in the abyss

What? No % for discussion of lottery numbers? If you live with farmers, they talk about crops and rain and prices and land... but mostly, we talk about family... and they make jokes and laugh and eat together and enjoy life... 

 

not much time for long winded discussions of existential angst and the end of the world... if you like that sort of chit chat, ok. 

[MisterBleach]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Yep tones a problem, but if you make the sentences longer, it gives the Thai person time to make some context of what is said.

AND, I used to seldom use the common word for dog (ma), because there are a few ma's ...dog, horse etc. If you use 'sunuuk' then people will know you mean dog.
Same for money (ng) I can never get the sound correct when refering to money, so I use 'satang'.

Just me, but I probobly wouldn't have the trouble if I made my sentences longer.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

WRONG:

 

If you use "sunuuk", สนุก,   then people will know that you are having a good time, or are amused, or cheerful.

 

But

 

If you use "sunak", สุนัข, then people will know you mean dog.

 

AND

 

If you wish to say 'fun dog', then you can use:  "sunak sanuk", สุนัขสนุก

 

====

Keep practicing.

That's all one can do.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

19 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

A very good point which I had not considered.  

When it comes to dropping words I suppose it means that if one learns on the coalface as it were, dropping words is automatic. I bet you remember the disappointment of being misunderstood. I lost that on hearing a retired NCO and retired colonel conversing, It seemed as though the NCO was not supplying all the information in one go, They went back and forth It seemed to me in spite of my not being able to understand more than a few words. 

Thanks for the fun. 

You're welcome.

 

Always interesting discussing this topic with other foreigners. Best of luck with your studies.

[MisterBleach]

3 hours ago, tgeezer said:

It is not my intention to argue the toss over this but it is a matter of fact that thai does not mean pasa thai. 

Thai is what is called an isolating language which as far as I can determine means that one word means one thing, that means that a combinations of words or context is required to give more meaning.

With pasa thai we mean Thai language, poot (speak) gives context so thai appears to be alright but language is the object of the verb not thai, poot thai makes sense only in English. I was in my kitchen thinking about this subject when the elastic band(rubber band Am. Eng.) broke so I asked for ow eek yaang.  

 

 

 

That is alright because it was in context but If I went out to buy elastic bands I need to ask for yaang rat(rubber bind). 

We can argue over my parlance and phonetic symbols but as my other topic tries to show, Thai should be good enough. 

Next time, post the full quote, please, and F your toss:

 

I do not have an opinion about it.

This is the way it is.

ภาษาไทย = passa Thai

Any fool should know this.

 

ภาษาไทย = Thai language

 

I have no time for language fools.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

12 hours ago, BestB said:

You are 100 % spot on about learning at school instead of from the girls, but one correction. Passa means language, not speak. but no one says i am learning language Thai or language English, people just say i am leaning thai or english

In English yes we probably wouldn't, we'd just use the noun that denotes the language and that would suffice, that is not the case in Thai, however.

We English speakers would also put the adjective before the noun in this sentence if we bothered to use it at all ???? , the above is a direct translation, not accounting for our different grammatical systems. Just to be pedantic ????.

 

[carlyai]

WRONG:
 
If you use "sunuuk", สนุก,   then people will know that you are having a good time, or are amused, or cheerful.
 
But
 
If you use "sunak", สุนัข, then people will know you mean dog.
 
AND
 
If you wish to say 'fun dog', then you can use:  "sunak sanuk", สุนัขสนุก
 
====
Keep practicing.
That's all one can do.

Pedantic ....you know what I meant.





Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[tgeezer]

1 hour ago, MisterBleach said:

Next time, post the full quote, please, and F your toss:

 

I do not have an opinion about it.

This is the way it is.

ภาษาไทย = passa Thai

Any fool should know this.

 

ภาษาไทย = Thai language

 

I have no time for language fools.

My first reply to your topic was one of support and I was rather taken aback when you replied ‘where’ to my suggestion that sensible discussions could be had. 

You had written Pasa Thai and there were several criticisms of the inclusion of pasa none of which you commented upon so, since you claim to be learning, I decided to help out. I gave you grammatical reasons for the inclusion of pasa which I thought that you might find interesting.  Since you have stated that you want no more knowledge than fools are capable of acquiring I realise that I was wrong to do so.  

There is a difference between tossing the same question back and forth and giving a toss you know. 

 I shall not reply to negative comments from you but I can’t stop you having the last word if that Is important to you.  

[BestB]

4 hours ago, MisterBleach said:

Next time, post the full quote, please, and F your toss:

 

I do not have an opinion about it.

This is the way it is.

ภาษาไทย = passa Thai

Any fool should know this.

 

ภาษาไทย = Thai language

 

I have no time for language fools.

So to confirm you are learning but those who already speak it are fools?

 

And to put a cheery on top , not only you tell those who can speak it to go f themselves but felt the need to make a post that you are learning .

 

How is your bowel movement today? Care to make a post and tell me the right way of doing it

[BestB]

6 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

"there is NO grammar for time"

There is go back to school. 

And there I thought you were a seafood mogul, turns out you are an English teacher ????????????

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Mister Bleach:

 

You/I/us will be studying Thai for the rest of our lives. 

 

As with you I learned the writing, can read and write Thai reasonably. Got a decent vocabulary. Listening and speaking - different things. All language skills are memorization. You/I/we have to memorize spoken Thai. It is different from written Thai. Let the posters argue it all they want. 

 

Short and sweet. You've built a written vocabulary. 

 

You need to memorize spoken Thai - attempting to translate spoken Thai into written Thai will slow you to a snails pace - absolutely counterproductive. You need to approach listening and speaking Thai from ground zero. 

 

Go to you tube "aakanee" Thai recordings - see below. Lots of lessons, provided in a story board format. The lessons show panels and a native Thai speaker explaining what the panel represents.

 

It's all about the hours. Listening and spoken Thai is/are a different skill set than written Thai. So, you know written Thai, time to learn spoken Thai. Hours and hours and hours. 

 

Good Luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Damrongsak]

11 hours ago, Thian said:

I see, well when a thai says Horm i never hear that R....i thought it was hom...but i guess you're right. And for Hmen to me it sounds like Min...but i'm just a dumb falang...oh solly, farang.

I don't see an "R" in the word for fragrant:  หอม

[Thian]

5 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

I don't see an "R" in the word for fragrant:  หอม

Me neither, but i can't read a letter thai....

 

I will give up learning thai....would rather learn japanese...that's more usefull. My wife is thai so she'll do all for me.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 hour ago, Damrongsak said:

I don't see an "R" in the word for fragrant:  หอม

How the word is spelt in Thai and how it is pronounced (and hence how I would choose to phonetically spell / memorise it in English) are two different things. The word หอม is not pronounced H-O-M, the vowel sound is clearly elongated, just listen to it being pronounced in its standard way on google translate for example. Do you hear a short O vowel sound? Or do you hear the elongation of the vowel as I do? Perhaps 'r' is the wrong letter to use, but you get my point, no?

H̄xm = hohm . 

[CharlieH]

posts containing thai script bickering removed.

[Damrongsak]

5 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

How the word is spelt in Thai and how it is pronounced (and hence how I would choose to phonetically spell / memorise it in English) are two different things. The word หอม is not pronounced H-O-M, the vowel sound is clearly elongated, just listen to it being pronounced in its standard way on google translate for example. Do you hear a short O vowel sound? Or do you hear the elongation of the vowel as I do? Perhaps 'r' is the wrong letter to use, but you get my point, no?

H̄xm = hohm . 

"Hohm" is good, perhaps "hawm" would work.  I've had a brother in law named หอมชาย for about 40 years now, so I have a fair idea of the pronunciation. My wife bums lum yai fruit from him.  Sweet guy.

 

[tgeezer]

9 hours ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

Mister Bleach:

 

You/I/us will be studying Thai for the rest of our lives. 

 

As with you I learned the writing, can read and write Thai reasonably. Got a decent vocabulary. Listening and speaking - different things. All language skills are memorization. You/I/we have to memorize spoken Thai. It is different from written Thai. Let the posters argue it all they want. 

 

Short and sweet. You've built a written vocabulary. 

 

You need to memorize spoken Thai - attempting to translate spoken Thai into written Thai will slow you to a snails pace - absolutely counterproductive. You need to approach listening and speaking Thai from ground zero. 

 

Go to you tube "aakanee" Thai recordings - see below. Lots of lessons, provided in a story board format. The lessons show panels and a native Thai speaker explaining what the panel represents.

 

It's all about the hours. Listening and spoken Thai is/are a different skill set than written Thai. So, you know written Thai, time to learn spoken Thai. Hours and hours and hours. 

 

Good Luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much. Only 154 subscribers, one more now. When I saw them sucking on their straws I thought สูบ but she said ดูด.  Just what I need this visit.  

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

5 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

"Hohm" is good, perhaps "hawm" would work.  I've had a brother in law named หอมชาย for about 40 years now, so I have a fair idea of the pronunciation. My wife bums lum yai fruit from him.  Sweet guy.

 

Thinking about it, I would agree your phonetic spelling - H-A-W-M is just as good if not better.

Nice one.