Teaching piano lessons

[DanFromHawaii]

I have a bachelor's degree in education and a master's degree in music. Of course, I could teach English formally at some school or online. But: 

 

Is it possible to teach piano lessons out of my home self-employed? Or would I have to first be officially hired and sponsored by a company in Thailand and being them in on the action? 

[elviajero]

No you cannot work as a self-employed teacher.

 

There’s nothing stopping you giving free lessons, but as soon as you charge it would be considered your occupation and you’d require permission; which you won’t get.

 

You could only work as a teacher if formerly employed.

[DanFromHawaii]

With my degrees, of course I have formally taught and been employed both as a regular teacher and as a music teacher in the USA. 

 

So my only solution in Thailand would be to go to a music school or piano store and ask to be employed by them as a music teacher? 

Edited October 29, 2019 by DanFromHawaii
More precise.

[elviajero]

36 minutes ago, DanFromHawaii said:

With my degrees, of course I have formally taught and been employed both as a regular teacher and as a music teacher in the USA. 

 

So my only solution in Thailand would be to go to a music school or piano store and ask to be employed by them as a music teacher? 

Yes. Or an international school.

Your employer would have to justify why they are employing you over a Thai. Getting a job teaching Thais would be difficult unless you can speak Thai.

[DanFromHawaii]

New twist: What if I'm teaching lessons on a musical instrument no Thai knows how to teach? 

 

I am bringing a 4-manual with pedals computer pipe organ into the country, based on the Hereford Cathedral organ in England. If I taught organ lessons on this instrument in my home, I'm sure I can prove that only westerners at Christ Church or Assumption Cathedral in Bangkok know how to play or teach such an instrument.

 

What would be my strategy for getting a work permit to teach something no Thai knows how to teach? 

[elviajero]

57 minutes ago, DanFromHawaii said:

New twist: What if I'm teaching lessons on a musical instrument no Thai knows how to teach? 

 

I am bringing a 4-manual with pedals computer pipe organ into the country, based on the Hereford Cathedral organ in England. If I taught organ lessons on this instrument in my home, I'm sure I can prove that only westerners at Christ Church or Assumption Cathedral in Bangkok know how to play or teach such an instrument.

 

What would be my strategy for getting a work permit to teach something no Thai knows how to teach? 

Your qualifications and specific skills can improve your employability. But if want to work for a school etc. your employer has to convince the labour office issuing the work permit why they are employing you over a Thai.

 

It is possible to work from home, but only as an employee with a work permit, and the location of your work must be agreed by the labour office.

 

 

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, DanFromHawaii said:

If I taught organ lessons on this instrument in my home, I'm sure I can prove that only westerners at Christ Church or Assumption Cathedral in Bangkok know how to play or teach such an instrument.

Who do you intend to teach? Do you really think there is a demand in Thailand to learn to play such an instrument?

[simon43]

Quote

 

There’s nothing stopping you giving free lessons,....
 

 

 

True, but would that be legal?  As we all know, voluntary work in Thailand requires a work permit.  Sure, the possibility of falling foul of the law is remote, but IMHO, providing free piano lessons is no different from providing free English lessons.

 

Updatre:

I am bringing a 4-manual with pedals computer pipe organ into the country,...

 

Well, good luck with dealing with Thai Customs over the import tax ????

Edited October 29, 2019 by simon43

[elviajero]

10 minutes ago, simon43 said:

True, but would that be legal?  As we all know, voluntary work in Thailand requires a work permit.  Sure, the possibility of falling foul of the law is remote, but IMHO, providing free piano lessons is no different from providing free English lessons.

Yes it would be legal. It would not be "voluntary work". The only official voluntary work is when you're given permission to work for an authorised organisation.

 

You cannot work as an unpaid employee of an employer without permission, but there is nothing stopping you giving free lessons, in your own time, to someone outside of that work environment. It would be neither employment or self employment.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, DanFromHawaii said:

I am bringing a 4-manual with pedals computer pipe organ into the country

Smashing! Please tell me if you get your WP. I always wanted to be able to play that one.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

 

True, but would that be legal?  As we all know, voluntary work in Thailand requires a work permit.  Sure, the possibility of falling foul of the law is remote, but IMHO, providing free piano lessons is no different from providing free English lessons.

 

Updatre:

 

 

Well, good luck with dealing with Thai Customs over the import tax ????

And putting all the bits, some broken, back together after they have been minutely inspected internally by Somchai and Sombat at the port.

[DanFromHawaii]

This instrument is the same as if someone brought a personal piano as household goods into Thailand. I own it, possess it, and use it.

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, DanFromHawaii said:

This instrument is the same as if someone brought a personal piano as household goods into Thailand. I own it, possess it, and use it.

Sorry to say all that doesn't matter. It will be decided for you how it's classed for import and how much you will pay.

[LivinLOS]

16 minutes ago, DanFromHawaii said:

This instrument is the same as if someone brought a personal piano as household goods into Thailand. I own it, possess it, and use it.

All agreed.. However personal household good are taxed.. 

 

I got marginally reamed by Phuket customs on my arrival many years back, being a silly farang it became a pissing match and they held all the (my) cards. Luckily I saw the error of my ways and managed to catch the boss at a lunchbreak, hence only 1 pretty cheap payoff instead of the few 1000 usd they were angling at. 

I remember showing them proof of the law that a person coming with non imm visa could import household effects, his response was to look at 10k usds worth of marble speakers and suggest they maybe had to 'crack them open and check if anything was inside'.. In hindsight it was classic Thailand but as a noob I was fuming at the time. 

[DanFromHawaii]

I think I'll just shut up at Customs and let my Thai wife do the negotiating. She holds a high-level executive job in Bangkok and I have designated her the consignee. She knows her way around. 

 

Before you ask, no, she hasn't lived abroad so she can't claim exemption as a returning Thai citizen. But she is pretty savvy. We'll see. 

[overherebc]

34 minutes ago, DanFromHawaii said:

I think I'll just shut up at Customs and let my Thai wife do the negotiating. She holds a high-level executive job in Bangkok and I have designated her the consignee. She knows her way around. 

 

Before you ask, no, she hasn't lived abroad so she can't claim exemption as a returning Thai citizen. But she is pretty savvy. We'll see. 

If she can't show how she came to own it in the first place it will be classed as a brand new item. If there is anything electrical about it that raises the anti.

[LivinLOS]

22 minutes ago, overherebc said:

If she can't show how she came to own it in the first place it will be classed as a brand new item. If there is anything electrical about it that raises the anti.

Similarly its 1 item of each only.. So I sent in a DVD collection (lol remember them) of over 1000 original films, and they said year 1 DVD is tax free the rest are full import price.. 

 

All just games.. I think it was 10 or 15k I paid in cash without receipt and it was on a truck an hour later.  Welcome to Phuket.

[HHTel]

Quote

it is engaging in mental or physical effort, paid or unpaid. A regulation. issued under the Act sets out 39 categories of employment prohibited to foreigners. In general, a. work permit may be issued for one year renewable.

 

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Similarly its 1 item of each only.. So I sent in a DVD collection (lol remember them) of over 1000 original films, and they said year 1 DVD is tax free the rest are full import price.. 

 

All just games.. I think it was 10 or 15k I paid in cash without receipt and it was on a truck an hour later.  Welcome to Phuket.

When my crate arrived, a good few years ago they started at around 40,000. I just said ok send it back to uk I'll arrange the paperwork. The 'price' started coming down and I just said no send it back to my ex-wife. Eventually it got down to about 3000 including delivery to the house in Bangkok. ????????

[kralledr]

call the ministry of labour and ask....

[Surasak]

I have heard, but will bow to those more knowledgable, that a foreigner cannot teach music in Thailand?

[overherebc]

14 minutes ago, Surasak said:

I have heard, but will bow to those more knowledgable, that a foreigner cannot teach music in Thailand?

Making of Thai musical instruments for sure but teaching might be ok if you have  a WP.

Edited October 30, 2019 by overherebc

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, DanFromHawaii said:

This instrument is the same as if someone brought a personal piano as household goods into Thailand. I own it, possess it, and use it.

I brought a two manual with pedals Hammond organ plus Leslie into the country – but of course two manuals, and probably some foot-keys also, not to forget register keys, less than your electronic pipe-organ – no big deal as personal household, just remember to put on the packing list with serial number and an estimated value. I also brought a small personal piano, so-called combined hammer-piano and spinet, in same shipment...????

[Max69xl]

17 hours ago, DanFromHawaii said:

New twist: What if I'm teaching lessons on a musical instrument no Thai knows how to teach? 

 

I am bringing a 4-manual with pedals computer pipe organ into the country, based on the Hereford Cathedral organ in England. If I taught organ lessons on this instrument in my home, I'm sure I can prove that only westerners at Christ Church or Assumption Cathedral in Bangkok know how to play or teach such an instrument.

 

What would be my strategy for getting a work permit to teach something no Thai knows how to teach? 

How many thai students wants to learn how to play the pipe organ? 

[keysersoze276]

On 10/30/2019 at 1:05 AM, elviajero said:

No you cannot work as a self-employed teacher.

 

There’s nothing stopping you giving free lessons, but as soon as you charge it would be considered your occupation and you’d require permission; which you won’t get.

 

You could only work as a teacher if formerly employed.

Wrong. You can't give piano lessons even for free, nor do volunteer work without a work permit. You can't help your neighbor carry her groceries across the street without a work permit. 

[elviajero]

17 minutes ago, keysersoze276 said:

Wrong. You can't give piano lessons even for free, nor do volunteer work without a work permit. You can't help your neighbor carry her groceries across the street without a work permit. 

Utter nonsense. The law prohibits employment or self-employment without permission. Giving free piano lessons is neither.

 

And if you think it's against the law to carry someones groceries and requires a work permit it's best you keep your ridiculous opinions to yourself and stop scaremongering.

Edited October 30, 2019 by elviajero

[elviajero]

10 hours ago, Surasak said:

I have heard, but will bow to those more knowledgable, that a foreigner cannot teach music in Thailand?

They can. It's not on the list of specific jobs a foreigner can't do.

[simon43]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Utter nonsense. The law prohibits employment or self-employment without permission. Giving free piano lessons is neither.

 

And if you think it's against the law to carry someones groceries and requires a work permit it's best you keep your ridiculous opinions to yourself and stop scaremongering.

Carrying groceries for someone is not the same as imparting knowledge and/or skill to another person.  Giving free piano lessons is just the same as giving free English lessons.  It requires a WP, (although you can usually get away with it if no-one complains).

 

One reason why I left Thailand to live in Laos was because I gave free English lessons in my local community, which was contrary to the Labor Law.  I needed a WP which, since I didn't teach for an NGO or registered organisation, was impossible to obtain.  

[elviajero]

22 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Carrying groceries for someone is not the same as imparting knowledge and/or skill to another person.  Giving free piano lessons is just the same as giving free English lessons.  It requires a WP, (although you can usually get away with it if no-one complains).

It does not require a work permit unless you are being employed by a business to give lessons. Or charging a fee as your occupation.

 

So by your logic if I show someone how to carry their shopping I'm imparting knowledge and/or skill and need a work permit!!!

 

22 minutes ago, simon43 said:

One reason why I left Thailand to live in Laos was because I gave free English lessons in my local community, which was contrary to the Labor Law.  I needed a WP which, since I didn't teach for an NGO or registered organisation, was impossible to obtain.  

"Giving free lessons in my local community". What does that mean? If you were teaching at a school, unpaid, you'd need permission. If you were giving free lessons at home you wouldn't.

 

I run two businesses employing both Thais and foreigners. I've had many conversations with immigration, the labour office and my company lawyer. The law simply prohibits someone working self-employed or for an employer. The employment law states that you need permission even if unpaid to stop employers from claiming their foreign employee is unpaid to avoid having to apply for a work permit.

 

The idea that the definition of work in labour law extends to everyday life is laughable.

 

[DanFromHawaii]

9 hours ago, Max69xl said:

How many thai students wants to learn how to play the pipe organ? 

None until you start playing it and someone hears it. True for violins, band instruments, piano, any instrument not native Thai. Someone heard them, liked them, and now they are played and taught. It's simply a marketing issue.

 

Perhaps I will invite Gudni Emilsson, conductor of the Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra over for dinner and demonstrate the organ. If it was played for a concert, interest would develop.