BioGreen-Sate micro-organism may replace paraquat and glyphosate

[webfact]

BioGreen-Sate micro-organism may replace paraquat and glyphosate

 

 

Micro-organisms may offer an alternative to weed the killers paraquat and glyphosate for farmers, according to Mr. Worayut Boonmee, head of the Office of Policy and Technology for Sustainable Agriculture.

 

He cited the case of BioGreen-Sate, a micro-organism produced from the fermentation of deep-sea seaweed, developed by Worn System Company, which has been tested as effective in eradicating weeds at its test field in Ban Don Klam in Sappaya district of Chainat province.

 

He said that the Rice Department will conduct field tests of BioGreen-Sate to determine the efficacy of the micro-organism, adding that, if the tests are successful, BioGreen-Sate would be proposed to the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives as an alternative weed killer.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/biogreen-sate-micro-organism-may-replace-paraquat-and-glyphosate/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2019-10-30

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[fforest1]

This is all well and good ....But the Chemicals absolutely can not be banned until its proven this replacement works.... 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

This is all well and good ....But the Chemicals absolutely can not be banned until its proven this replacement works.... 

There are alternatives otherwise the places where they do value safety and health of consumers would have been overrun by weeds and they have not. So there are alternatives, besides all tests always show too many chemicals on Thai fruits and vegetables. The alternative is let farmers go on poisoning everyone. (i would have been more mild if test had shown reasonable levels of pesticides and poisons when tested but truth is that a lot is way over the levels. The only thing to do is ban stuff)

[farmerjo]

It's already in the market place.

I can't find a Label or SDS for it.Dodgy instructions.

It will kill all your beneficial insects(lady beetles etc)

http://mskfertilizer.com/rice-up-biogreen-sate/?lang=en

 

[Paul Henry]

Quote

 

Robblok has shown his total lack of knowledge of this subject in a few short lines. Yes there are alternatives eg. Manual labour,steam, petroleum products,salt, mechanical disturbance the list goes on.However his lack of knowledge of licenced ,registered agricultural chemicals that have had all the trial work carried out and the results published showing things like MRLs and withholding times is glaring. 

[Paul Henry]

A weed is a plant growing in the wrong place/ or where it will do harm or is not wanted. This means around the world or in any one country there are millions of weeds and many types eg annual,perenial,aquatic I could name several dozen more. If Mr Boonmee is going to carry out trials with his new wonder discovery it will take him several lifetimes to be able to make definitive statements on what plants it controls and how and when it should be used. Good Luck!

[Cadbury]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

produced from the fermentation of deep-sea seaweed,

So the manufacturers strip the seabed of kelp to produce some "organic" weedkiller. There used to be a company in Australia that years ago harvested this magnificent kelp for the production of women's make up.

Destroying underwater nature and marine life habitat is not the answer to this problem. 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Cadbury

[robblok]

50 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

Robblok has shown his total lack of knowledge of this subject in a few short lines. Yes there are alternatives eg. Manual labour,steam, petroleum products,salt, mechanical disturbance the list goes on.However his lack of knowledge of licenced ,registered agricultural chemicals that have had all the trial work carried out and the results published showing things like MRLs and withholding times is glaring. 

No lack of knowledge, i guess your a farmer.

Its a fact that Thai fruits and vegs have far to much poison on them, once in a while test make it to the news and its really bad. So your option is leave it as it be and let those farmers kill us all ?

 

Its also a fact that it has been banned in other countries and they survived. So what is the problem ? In the end if it costs more the market will reflect this and consumers will pay.

 

I for one prefer to pay more then to be continuously poisoned by farmers. 

[farmerjo]

38 minutes ago, robblok said:

No lack of knowledge, i guess your a farmer.

Its a fact that Thai fruits and vegs have far to much poison on them, once in a while test make it to the news and its really bad. So your option is leave it as it be and let those farmers kill us all ?

 

Its also a fact that it has been banned in other countries and they survived. So what is the problem ? In the end if it costs more the market will reflect this and consumers will pay.

 

I for one prefer to pay more then to be continuously poisoned by farmers. 

Robblock,you are correct that some audits on fruit and veg have high levels of poisons.

What people need to establish is the difference between a herbicide,fungicide and insecticide.

And it's the latter two that tend to show up in the samples.

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Robblock,you are correct that some audits on fruit and veg have high levels of poisons.

What people need to establish is the difference between a herbicide,fungicide and insecticide.

And it's the latter two that tend to show up in the samples.

I wish it was only some, and it shows the total disregard farmers have for the lives of consumers. So why allow them use dangerous chemicals if they just misuse them. Obviously regulating does not work in this country then banning is the only way. 

 

If Glypospate was not dangerous no judge would ever have allowed the high payouts in court cases. So do explain why we should allow farmers to use dangerous chemicals while we know that they just cant handle them or use them correctly. 

Again in a perfect country regulations and education would be good. But in this country the system is not in place to do that that leaves banning and will lead to better consumer health. The more of the <deleted> they ban the better.

[farmerjo]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I wish it was only some, and it shows the total disregard farmers have for the lives of consumers. So why allow them use dangerous chemicals if they just misuse them. Obviously regulating does not work in this country then banning is the only way. 

 

If Glypospate was not dangerous no judge would ever have allowed the high payouts in court cases. So do explain why we should allow farmers to use dangerous chemicals while we know that they just cant handle them or use them correctly. 

Again in a perfect country regulations and education would be good. But in this country the system is not in place to do that that leaves banning and will lead to better consumer health. The more of the <deleted> they ban the better.

Your not getting it.

Would you not start with the chemicals that are showing up in the fruit and veg samples.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, farmerjo said:

Your not getting it.

Would you not start with the chemicals that are showing up in the fruit and veg samples.

I am getting it, its you who does not get it. Sure in a perfect world id want those chemicals gone first. However this is not a perfect world so I am for banning all chemicals that are harmful. 

 

I hope that this ban will make Thais more health conscious and start banning other bad stuff too. Its a first step the beginning.

 

Normally I would not be so pro banning stuff but in this country regulating does not work.

 

In my book any dangerous chemical that is removed is a good thing even if its not those I want to see gone first. 

 

But the abundance of toxins in fruit and veggies shows how irresponsible farmers are. Do you really think its different with the substances they ban and they only misuse the others ?

 

I can't believe that people would think that.

[farmerjo]

Ok were getting off topic.

How do you think the alternate chemical in the OP is looking,potential?

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am getting it, its you who does not get it. Sure in a perfect world id want those chemicals gone first. However this is not a perfect world so I am for banning all chemicals that are harmful. 

 

I hope that this ban will make Thais more health conscious and start banning other bad stuff too. Its a first step the beginning.

 

Normally I would not be so pro banning stuff but in this country regulating does not work.

 

In my book any dangerous chemical that is removed is a good thing even if its not those I want to see gone first. 

 

But the abundance of toxins in fruit and veggies shows how irresponsible farmers are. Do you really think its different with the substances they ban and they only misuse the others ?

 

I can't believe that people would think that.

 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Ok were getting off topic.

How do you think the alternate chemical in the OP is looking,potential?

 

I don't know I havent used it, but the point is that changes in rules always give some hardship. I have encountered it my work too. Its just how it is and not a reason not to do it otherwise new regulations would never go through as they always make things harder. (agreed or not ?) (for instance I need to file far more tax data then before for clients am I just accept it as part of change, banks need to document far mor things too its not just farmers who have changing regulations)

 

I am also saying that in countries where it was banned they found alternatives, so why would that be different in Thailand. There is a chance of course its more work or more expensive (but as i pointed out that happens in all sectors so why should farmers be free of change). 

 

You seem to be of the opinion that things can only be changed if there is no hardship but there always is for every sector. Again why should farmers be different then others who live with changing rules.

 

In the end this will lead to a better environment and better consumer safety. 

[Chazar]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

In the end this will lead to a better environment and better consumer safety.

it  will lead  to less  food, i for  one  will probably  let my land  go fallow and  looking around  here now a  lot of  land has been and is  being abandoned for lack of  staff who  have  all gone to the factories including Burmese.

People  seem to think there are  hordes of Thais etc waiting to pull weeds....there was  years  ago then it changed to Burmese, both now  long  gone, for over 5  years I had  no weedkillers at  all, now its  impossible.

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, Chazar said:

it  will lead  to less  food, i for  one  will probably  let my land  go fallow and  looking around  here now a  lot of  land has been and is  being abandoned for lack of  staff who  have  all gone to the factories including Burmese.

People  seem to think there are  hordes of Thais etc waiting to pull weeds....there was  years  ago then it changed to Burmese, both now  long  gone, for over 5  years I had  no weedkillers at  all, now its  impossible.

Then people will pay the higher price for the food there is. 

[canopy]

27 minutes ago, Chazar said:

People seem to think there are  hordes of Thais etc waiting to pull weeds....now its  impossible.

Weeding is a tough, back breaking job and shouldn't get slave wages. Just a matter of raising the wage enough and everyone will be begging to do it.

 

[Tayaout]

40 minutes ago, Chazar said:

it  will lead  to less  food, i for  one  will probably  let my land  go fallow and  looking around  here now a  lot of  land has been and is  being abandoned for lack of  staff who  have  all gone to the factories including Burmese.

People  seem to think there are  hordes of Thais etc waiting to pull weeds....there was  years  ago then it changed to Burmese, both now  long  gone, for over 5  years I had  no weedkillers at  all, now its  impossible.

Not really an issue. If you an many farmers stop farming then food price will increase. If food price increase then more farmer will get incentives to produce food and price will drop again.

[farmerjo]

24 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

Not really an issue. If you an many farmers stop farming then food price will increase. If food price increase then more farmer will get incentives to produce food and price will drop again.

What do you think of the chemical in the OP?

[digger70]

1 hour ago, Chazar said:

it  will lead  to less  food, i for  one  will probably  let my land  go fallow and  looking around  here now a  lot of  land has been and is  being abandoned for lack of  staff who  have  all gone to the factories including Burmese.

People  seem to think there are  hordes of Thais etc waiting to pull weeds....there was  years  ago then it changed to Burmese, both now  long  gone, for over 5  years I had  no weedkillers at  all, now its  impossible.

There are Hordes of Thais all over the country But they have a Big problem,,,,, They Don't like manual work. ????

[Tayaout]

32 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

What do you think of the chemical in the OP?

I never heard of this before and have no idea. 

[farmerjo]

54 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

Well you may enjoy all paraquat veggie and let the rest of population don't have paraquat and glyphosate infested veggie and fruit, since has been long proven that they are deadly !

There are 1000s of evidences but of course EU and US FDA based on research done by the producers, not by independent studies ! 

Well let's not waste time.

Start rounding up all the stray dogs in Thailand and we will get them to pee in a bucket.

Perfect organic weed killer,you don't mind do you.

[Tayaout]

3 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Well let's not waste time.

Start rounding up all the stray dogs in Thailand and we will get them to pee in a bucket.

Perfect organic weed killer,you don't mind do you.

It would work short term but after a couple weeks urea would break down into nitrogen and the problem would get worse. ????

[rickudon]

Some pretty broad claims for this biogreen-sate. But will it actually work? I have bought so called 'organic' insecticide and anti-fungal sprays from Thai supermarkets and DIY stores, and they were utterly useless. I have had better success with washing up liquid for aphids.

 

I dig up all my weeds (and those deep rooted grasses are a pain), and in the Thai heat i only manage to clear a metre or two a day at best. The Thai way is just chip the weeds off the surface, throw your seeds in, and let the race for survival begin! It is a lot quicker......

[farmerjo]

14 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Some pretty broad claims for this biogreen-sate. But will it actually work? I have bought so called 'organic' insecticide and anti-fungal sprays from Thai supermarkets and DIY stores, and they were utterly useless. I have had better success with washing up liquid for aphids.

 

I dig up all my weeds (and those deep rooted grasses are a pain), and in the Thai heat i only manage to clear a metre or two a day at best. The Thai way is just chip the weeds off the surface, throw your seeds in, and let the race for survival begin! It is a lot quicker......

The problem is these organic labels are dodgy at best.

When they give a rate on a label it's for garden paths doing spot spraying.

The fact is for agriculture you need ideal conditions and 10 times the rate and water.

It also sets you planting time after spraying back 16 days plus.

There are consequences with them but cause the toxic factor is taken out,everyone seems to think their the new slice of bread.  

[Dumbastheycome]

On 10/30/2019 at 8:14 AM, Paul Henry said:

A weed is a plant growing in the wrong place/ or where it will do harm or is not wanted. This means around the world or in any one country there are millions of weeds and many types eg annual,perenial,aquatic I could name several dozen more. If Mr Boonmee is going to carry out trials with his new wonder discovery it will take him several lifetimes to be able to make definitive statements on what plants it controls and how and when it should be used. Good Luck!

A weed is  simply an undesirable plant  in economic terms and many are  primary weeds that can thrive in the worst of  soil conditions.. MIcro organisms that support the  healthy  growth of   more  beneficial  crops have been  destroyed  by the application  of  chemicals  and burning.

While it is true that a return to the  more labour intensive  methods would  eventuate in  re establishing  organic  health it  has been demonstrated  that  deliberate   application of  bio organisms that should be already  naturally there can accelerate productivity in desirable  crops.

The concept  of  continuation of  proven  destructive  chemical applications  current  with  proven alternatives is  non sensible.

The  conflict  of  interest  is that the  manufacturers who have spent decades in convincing the world  of

the  benifecence of their poisons and the manipulative attempt  to  monopolize food crops  have been  found to  be guilty.

if  the  combined  cost of the  health detriments to the  human population, the agricultural environment, the water sources, the oceans, streams  , lakes, rivers and  anything that does or used to inhabit them and which people have been told  are safe to utilize  or  consume have  been made  victims! And they  are max taxed  to pay the cost while the  producers  get  tax  breaks  for  participation  in "profiteering".

 

 

 

[rickudon]

9 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

The problem is these organic labels are dodgy at best.

When they give a rate on a label it's for garden paths doing spot spraying.

The fact is for agriculture you need ideal conditions and 10 times the rate and water.

It also sets you planting time after spraying back 16 days plus.

There are consequences with them but cause the toxic factor is taken out,everyone seems to think their the new slice of bread.  

The stuff i tried was ready mixed in a hand spray gun. Never killed anything .... called golden flowers i think.

 

Back in the UK, going organic was viable. Once i gave up chemicals, never had much trouble with black fly on the beans - they would come, start a few colonies, then practically disappear for the rest of the season. Obviously, depends on the crop. Here in Thailand, staying organic is hard.

[farmerjo]

4 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

A weed is  simply an undesirable plant  in economic terms and many are  primary weeds that can thrive in the worst of  soil conditions.. MIcro organisms that support the  healthy  growth of   more  beneficial  crops have been  destroyed  by the application  of  chemicals  and burning.

While it is true that a return to the  more labour intensive  methods would  eventuate in  re establishing  organic  health it  has been demonstrated  that  deliberate   application of  bio organisms that should be already  naturally there can accelerate productivity in desirable  crops.

The concept  of  continuation of  proven  destructive  chemical applications  current  with  proven alternatives is  non sensible.

The  conflict  of  interest  is that the  manufacturers who have spent decades in convincing the world  of

the  benifecence of their poisons and the manipulative attempt  to  monopolize food crops  have been  found to  be guilty.

if  the  combined  cost of the  health detriments to the  human population, the agricultural environment, the water sources, the oceans, streams  , lakes, rivers and  anything that does or used to inhabit them and which people have been told  are safe to utilize  or  consume have  been made  victims! And they  are max taxed  to pay the cost while the  producers  get  tax  breaks  for  participation  in "profiteering".

 

 

 

I disagree,a little is ok.Plus there has been no long term studies on the effects of alternate products.

My aim here is to have organic soil which i've proved having countless worm castings in the field.

 I don't turn the land allowing a mulch layer to suppress most of the weeds but you still need a little glyphosate till i'm expecting 8 years in to it.I have no need for fungicides or insectides with this practise 4 years in.

Drying out your soil turning it and then having to replace the microbes,is that natural(organic).

Burning diesel into the atmosphere,burning to control weeds.

The whole reason the government is trying to ban only 3 chemicals is simple.

Because they know the impact of banning every chemical and chemical fertilizers at once would bring the industry to a stand still.(isn't that what everyone wants a straight swap to organic)

We could all ways just cover everything in black plastic and you know how micro plastic people carry on,actually probably the same as for resistance to glyphosate.

But at the end of the day if the government is prepared to subsidise us say 6000 baht a rai to grow to their organic standards(which would not be hard)i would give it a go.

Otherwise will stick to growing animal feed using chemicals to improve the quality of produce.

[somo]

People are confusing herbicides and pesticides. Herbicides such as paraquat and glyphosate do not not enter the food chain. They are harmless to consumers but dangerous to use. It is the farmer at risk not those eating the food so all those here complaining about being poisoned by them are talking nonsense and jumping on a bandwagon so they can feel green.

Pesticides are a seperate topic but banning safe herbicides is plain ridiculous and will make a lot of Thai farmers suicidal as they lose their livelihood. That will be the only loss of life caused by these chemicals or rather the lack of them.

[Tayaout]

10 hours ago, somo said:

People are confusing herbicides and pesticides. Herbicides such as paraquat and glyphosate do not not enter the food chain. They are harmless to consumers but dangerous to use. It is the farmer at risk not those eating the food so all those here complaining about being poisoned by them are talking nonsense and jumping on a bandwagon so they can feel green.

Pesticides are a seperate topic but banning safe herbicides is plain ridiculous and will make a lot of Thai farmers suicidal as they lose their livelihood. That will be the only loss of life caused by these chemicals or rather the lack of them.

It's wishful thinking as a farm like a static box. While the farmers take the most risk, pesticides (and yes this include herbicides) may be leached into the environment because of rain.

 

"Gunatilake and Jayasumana, in their work, have long made the case that the chemical glyphosate, perhaps best known as the main ingredient in the widely used herbicide Roundup, plays a key role in transporting arsenic, cadmium and other heavy metals to the kidneys of those drinking contaminated water, contributing to the increasing number of cases of chronic kidney disease (CKD)."

https://news.mongabay.com/2019/02/sri-lanka-scientist-blames-industry-as-award-for-herbicide-research-is-axed/

 

Sri Lanka banned glyphosate and don't seem to have found any alternative chemical yet. There is a significant parallel that can be drawn with Thailand. 

 

"So, most of the farmers appreciate the decision of banning glyphosate in paddy cultivation although they fall into trouble with the banning. However, farmers are facing several problems at the moment due to sudden banning at once without giving a suitable alternative for glyphosate.

 

With the banning of most widely used herbicide glyphosate farmers were moving to other herbicides such as MCPA 60, Gramoxone, 2, 4-DPA, Hedanol etc. But they are not effective like glyphosate. So they increase the amount of other herbicides used. The farmers are spending much on different herbicides, leaving the cost of production of paddy goes high due to increase in other herbicides and labor cost.

 

Thus significant amount of paddy farmers are hoping to move away from paddy farming because of not having an effective herbicide to control weeds in the fields as weed clearance on the paddy fields is one of the key operations involved in paddy cultivation. So it is essential to introduce an active and cost effective herbicide for the paddy farmers for the sake of paddy cultivation in future."

Edited November 1, 2019 by Tayaout