This New Health Ins. req. , Need advice

[PatchinExPat]

I am 70, been here on a A-O , retirement visa for 6 yrs.

It is not easy or simple to keep up on exactly what they will 

want for each 1 yr extension. .. I need advice on getting legal on the health insurance requirement. Any names of health insurance companies you know personally about would help. I have complete coverage back in the USA, but it does not provide anything for Thailand. My plan was to pay out of pocket for medical needs unless I received a bad report like cancer or something else that is going to be very expensive. If so I would grab a plane back the USA to cover that.  If I can find good insurance here I could cancel coverage in the USA and stay here, if not it looks like my only choice it go back. Sure appreciate any advice and help in figuring this out. I will check often and try to respond to any helpful advice.

Edited October 31, 2019 by PatchinExPat
made mistakes in trying to type this out, please bare with me.

[Sheryl]

See here. At age 70 there are on;y 2-3 possible choices among the companies approved by TI.

 

 

 

[PatchinExPat]

Thank you Sheryl will download and read

[lelapin]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

See here. At age 70 there are on;y 2-3 possible choices among the companies approved by TI.

 

 

 

How many choices at 78 with many pre-conditions. Not many I think.

[tgeezer]

27 minutes ago, lelapin said:

How many choices at 78 with many pre-conditions. Not many I think.

No, if you get one it will be prohibitively expensive. The ball is in their court. 

[Sheryl]

40 minutes ago, lelapin said:

How many choices at 78 with many pre-conditions. Not many I think.

 

None of the companies listed on the Imm site will newly insure over age 75 no matter how healthy you are

 

There are foreign insurers who will issue a new policy at that age but likely not if there are serious pre-existing conditions or else with exclusions

[jacko45k]

Personally I would check first whether your office, Prachinburi, is one that interprets the new insurance requirement as being applicable to retirement extensions. Also when is your extension due?

I still feel the court is out on the requirement, but leaning towards guilty (yes). 

At 70 I expect insurance to cost you around 40,000 baht  to 60,000 p.a. but don't jump the gun. There is always the option of leaving Thailand, returning Exempt, and converting to a Non-Imm-O Entry.

Edited October 31, 2019 by jacko45k

[Mike Teavee]

19 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Personally I would check first whether your office, Prachinburi, is one that interprets the new insurance requirement as being applicable to retirement extensions. Also when is your extension due?

I still feel the court is out on the requirement, but leaning towards guilty (yes). 

At 70 I expect insurance to cost you around 40,000 baht  to 60,000 p.a. but don't jump the gun. There is always the option of leaving Thailand, returning Exempt, and converting to a Non-Imm-O Entry.

I know it's been discussed in many other threads & is pure speculation but I personally cannot see how they won't implement mandatory Health insurance for Non-O (Retirement) extensions as well as the Non-OAs so feel a strategy of converting to one is short lived at best, quite possibly a complete waste of time.

 

IMHO It's better to get Insurance as early as you can as the cost will only get higher the older you get, in the OP's case it seems that he's already paying for insurance in the US so could put whatever he's saving by ditching that towards getting insurance in Thailand (Seems his preference is to remain in Thailand anyway so another good reason to get insured in-country).

 

 

[PatchinExPat]

The lady running Patchin office is not one to be overly friendly to

us old timers.

I expire in june and I am about ready to transfer 1 million baht here,

I have been doing once a yr.

But I don't want to do that if they are going to send me back to

the USA.

I have never tried any of the visa work arounds, by leaving and coming back.

Not sure how any of that would work.

[Guderian]

6 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I know it's been discussed in many other threads & is pure speculation but I personally cannot see how they won't implement mandatory Health insurance for Non-O (Retirement) extensions as well as the Non-OAs so feel a strategy of converting to one is short lived at best, quite possibly a complete waste of time.

 

IMHO It's better to get Insurance as early as you can as the cost will only get higher the older you get, in the OP's case it seems that he's already paying for insurance in the US so could put whatever he's saving by ditching that towards getting insurance in Thailand (Seems his preference is to remain in Thailand anyway so another good reason to get insured in-country).

 

 

You may be right, but OTOH getting the OA visa has long required a criminal record check in your own country, which some people might argue is far more important for Thailand's security than health insurance, especially with all the fuss being made these days by the likes of Big Oud and Prayut about keeping foreign criminals out. Yet this requirement has never been extended to Non-O visas. Nor is it necessary to have the check repeated every year when you apply for an extension to your OA. So the whole thing is the usual inconsistent mix of rules that they may eventually try to rationalise, or they may just leave them be. Who knows?

[Sheryl]

20 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Personally I would check first whether your office, Prachinburi, is one that interprets the new insurance requirement as being applicable to retirement extensions. Also when is your extension due?

I still feel the court is out on the requirement, but leaning towards guilty (yes). 

At 70 I expect insurance to cost you around 40,000 baht  to 60,000 p.a. but don't jump the gun. There is always the option of leaving Thailand, returning Exempt, and converting to a Non-Imm-O Entry.

 

Last report I saw was that Prachin was saying extensions (if entered on an OA) did require it but that was some time ago and at least one IO in the same division has since revered their stance so it would be worth asking again.

 

However imm requirements aside you really should not be uninsured in Thailand and from what you say your US coverage can't be used here.

 

Prachin is my Imm office and I get on well with the staff there,  who I find to be pleasant and polite (though strict).  But be sure to dress nicely, they are very status conscious.  They appreciate it if you bring them fruit or other edible treats...nothing expensive, I scored a lot of points with just a few papayas from my garden.   And aim for a time when they are not too busy.

 

 

[PatchinExPat]

Mike Teavee Posted, 

""I know it's been discussed in many other threads & is pure speculation but I personally cannot see how they won't implement mandatory Health insurance for Non-O (Retirement) extensions as well as the Non-OAs so feel a strategy of converting to one is short lived at best, quite possibly a complete waste of time.

 

IMHO It's better to get Insurance as early as you can as the cost will only get higher the older you get, in the OP's case it seems that he's already paying for insurance in the US so could put whatever he's saving by ditching that towards getting insurance in Thailand (Seems his preference is to remain in Thailand anyway so another good reason to get insured in-country).""

 

Yes, I think trading visa types is no going to get you anywhere and I am not a backpacker wanting to cross borders all the time.

 

Mike, I would be willing to give up my insurance in the USA if I felt this would be the end of changes. I think the they are now wanting to work toward the more wealthy immigrants, with the longer visas they have now, and putting the screws to us guys 

who came on the 800,000 bank guys.

I have a retirement income  of a 1,300,000 Baht before deductions,and my house paid for and been living pretty nice. I have paid out of pocket for Dr visits and meds.

But any new regulations and they will close my out on staying here.

 

If I cancel my USA insurance and then have to leave, I will be in a bad fix.

[Sheryl]

13 minutes ago, PatchinExPat said:

Mike Teavee Posted, 

""I know it's been discussed in many other threads & is pure speculation but I personally cannot see how they won't implement mandatory Health insurance for Non-O (Retirement) extensions as well as the Non-OAs so feel a strategy of converting to one is short lived at best, quite possibly a complete waste of time.

 

IMHO It's better to get Insurance as early as you can as the cost will only get higher the older you get, in the OP's case it seems that he's already paying for insurance in the US so could put whatever he's saving by ditching that towards getting insurance in Thailand (Seems his preference is to remain in Thailand anyway so another good reason to get insured in-country).""

 

Yes, I think trading visa types is no going to get you anywhere and I am not a backpacker wanting to cross borders all the time.

 

Mike, I would be willing to give up my insurance in the USA if I felt this would be the end of changes. I think the they are now wanting to work toward the more wealthy immigrants, with the longer visas they have now, and putting the screws to us guys 

who came on the 800,000 bank guys.

I have a retirement income  of a 1,300,000 Baht before deductions,and my house paid for and been living pretty nice. I have paid out of pocket for Dr visits and meds.

But any new regulations and they will close my out on staying here.

 

If I cancel my USA insurance and then have to leave, I will be in a bad fix.

 

Don't cancel your US insurance (by which I assume you mean Medicare Part B? - lifetime penalty if you drop it and later need to re-enroll)

 

You can  get a policy from Pacific Cross with not too bad a premium if you take a high deductible, and they have confirmed that taking a deductible won\t affect issuing the needed Imm certificate.  They guarantee cover through age 99. Expat staff in their office so communication is easy.

[PatchinExPat]

31 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Last report I saw was that Prachin was saying extensions (if entered on an OA) did require it but that was some time ago and at least one IO in the same division has since revered their stance so it would be worth asking again.

 

However imm requirements aside you really should not be uninsured in Thailand and from what you say your US coverage can't be used here.

 

Prachin is my Imm office and I get on well with the staff there,  who I find to be pleasant and polite (though strict).  But be sure to dress nicely, they are very status conscious.  They appreciate it if you bring them fruit or other edible treats...nothing expensive, I scored a lot of points with just a few papayas from my garden.   And aim for a time when they are not too busy.

I try very hard from my first visit to Thailand to be polite and respectful of all

the Thai people, I really like them.

 

Actually, I don't know exactly what kind of visa I am on. It says Retirement, so I think that is a type O-A. I don't speak Thai, I have tried. I depend on my wife and her sister to explain things to me, most of the time.

My first Retirement visa was through the help of a lawyer in Bangkok, he handled the paper work for me. So I would go back to him each yr and his staff would get me registered for another yr. He is David Lamb a TSL, he is a US/Thai person.

But I want to try and do it myself in Prachin from now on.

 

I have kept my USA insurance for any long term chronic conditions. And paid out of pocket here. My USA insurance does not cover me out of the country.

Edited November 1, 2019 by PatchinExPat
misspelling

[PatchinExPat]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Don't cancel your US insurance (by which I assume you mean Medicare Part B? - lifetime penalty if you drop it and later need to re-enroll)

 

You can  get a policy from Pacific Cross with not too bad a premium if you take a high deductible, and they have confirmed that taking a deductible won\t affect issuing the needed Imm certificate.  They guarantee cover through age 99. Expat staff in their office so communication is easy.

Thanks Sheryl,

I will try to connect with them this next week.

Sounds like a plan.

I don't expect to make 99, maybe 75 if lucky.

My American wife was named Sheryl, I lost her in 2013 to Alzheimer's Disease.

My memory is getting so bad already, I keep paper and pens all over to make notes,

who knows where that is going.

 

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, PatchinExPat said:

I try very hard from my first visit to Thailand to be polite and respectful of all

the Thai people, I really like them.

 

Actually, I don't know exactly what kind of visa I am on. It says Retirement, so I think that is a type O-A. I don't speak Thai, I have tried. I depend on my wife and her sister to explain things to me, most of the time.

My first Retirement visa was through the help of a lawyer in Bangkok, he handled the paper work for me. So I would go back to him each yr and his staff would get me registered for another yr. He is David Lamb a US/Thai person.

 

 

 

Saying retirement does not mean necessarily OA. Could also bean extension based on an  O visa in which case insurance requirement does not apply.

 

If the passport you have now is same one you initially entered Thailand on you will have in it a visa (not to be confused with extensions of stay - an actual visa pasted into your passport. ). See what it says. Or if you have since gotten a new passport look at the first few pages, when Imm copied the stamps into it they will have made an entry taking up about 1/3 to 1/2 of a page which includes the details of your original visa.

 

If you originally entered the country visa exempt (30 day permission of stay) and got that converted it will have been converted to an O vuisa and then an extension of stay gotten based on that. . O-A visas can only be obtained in your home country and the process of getting one includes submission of financial information etc to a Thai |Embassy or Consulate. If you never did this, you do not have an O-A so are not affected by the new rules.

 

However you do still need insurance, just because your medical bills till now have been affordable does not mean they always will be. A single hospitalization here after a severe accident or major illness can easily run over a million baht in a government hospital and 3-5 million in a private one. In addition there does exist a possibility that it would in future be required of you, and with every passing year it will get harder to obtain, so now would be the time.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

12 minutes ago, PatchinExPat said:

I try very hard from my first visit to Thailand to be polite and respectful of all

the Thai people, I really like them.

 

Actually, I don't know exactly what kind of visa I am on. It says Retirement, so I think that is a type O-A. I don't speak Thai, I have tried. I depend on my wife and her sister to explain things to me, most of the time.

My first Retirement visa was through the help of a lawyer in Bangkok, he handled the paper work for me. So I would go back to him each yr and his staff would get me registered for another yr. He is David Lamb a US/Thai person.

 

I have kept my USA insurance for any long term chronic conditions. And paid out of pocket here. My USA insurance does not cover me out of the country.

My extension based on my original Non-Imm O is also stamped "Retirement" so don't go off that...

 

I would say that if you got your 1st Visa in Thailand then it is going to be a Non-Imm O as you can only get a Non-OA in your home country or a country where you have citizenship/permanent residency

 

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, PatchinExPat said:

.....

My memory is getting so bad already, I keep paper and pens all over to make notes,

who knows where that is going.

 

 

Oh dear.

 

Make sure you have your affairs in order and if not, do so now before your memory gets any worse. By which I mean, wills (financial and Advanced Directive)  and powers of attorney (Financial and Health Care). Most people need 2 sets, one for home country and one for Thailand.

 

If you do not have people in Thailand you can rely upon to look out for you/make necessary arrangements  if things worsen then maybe now is the time to consider returning home.

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, PatchinExPat said:

I try very hard from my first visit to Thailand to be polite and respectful of all

the Thai people, I really like them.

 

Actually, I don't know exactly what kind of visa I am on. It says Retirement, so I think that is a type O-A. I don't speak Thai, I have tried. I depend on my wife and her sister to explain things to me, most of the time.

My first Retirement visa was through the help of a lawyer in Bangkok, he handled the paper work for me. So I would go back to him each yr and his staff would get me registered for another yr. He is David Lamb a TSL, he is a US/Thai person.

But I want to try and do it myself in Prachin from now on.

 

I have kept my USA insurance for any long term chronic conditions. And paid out of pocket here. My USA insurance does not cover me out of the country.

If you started in Thailand, you started with an O visa, not an O-A visa. O-A visas are never issued in Thailand. 

 

Have you signed up for U.S. Medicare and Part B? Assuming so, why are you paying for additional U.S. health insurance or are you talking about a long term care policy which is limited coverage on Medicare?

 

 

[PatchinExPat]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Oh dear.

 

Make sure you have your affairs in order and if not, do so now before your memory gets any worse. By which I mean, wills (financial and Advanced Directive)  and powers of attorney (Financial and Health Care). Most people need 2 sets, one for home country and one for Thailand.

 

If you do not have people in Thailand you can rely upon to look out for you/make necessary arrangements  if things worsen then maybe now is the time to consider returning home.

Yes, I have most of those things in place. 

I have a wife and her family that really care for me here.

Good people, I try to pay if forward to them now.

I don't need anything extra right now , kicking along pretty good.

Returning will not be easy, as I have no children or others who have an

interest in caring for me.

I do have brothers and sisters, but you know they are as old as I am.

Sure they would feel they had to take me in or get me situated in a nursing home, but neither of those appeal to me in the least.

I had hoped to live out my time here, trying not to be a big bother to anyone.

 

This the end I had planned for, and yes I need some insurance here for an emergency.

I will take all your advice into consideration and thank you so much Sheryl.

[PatchinExPat]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If you started in Thailand, you started with an O visa, not an O-A visa. O-A visas are never issued in Thailand. 

 

Have you signed up for U.S. Medicare and Part B? Assuming so, why are you paying for additional U.S. health insurance or are you talking about a long term care policy which is limited coverage on Medicare?

I have kept my medicare part A and B , plus I have the medicare gap coverage for my employment as a fire fighter in home city. United health care.

Part B cost about 135 and my extra coverage cost about 160

I could just keep the Medicare and hope I never need it.

Lots to think about.

 

I got my Visa in Thailand , I was on a 90 visa issued in the USA.

It was my 3ed such visa and it after my wife and I got married.

So I am on an O retirement visa.

Thanks.

[TaoNow]

On a side note,  it seems that the OP has been doing his annual extensions at CW/Bangkok.  If he now wants to process extensions at Prachinburi IO, then he will have to do change of address form, correct? 

[Peter Denis]

Three important points to consider:

1. As Sheryl and others recommended do check in your passport on what original Visa type your present extensions were based.  If you entered Thailand on a Tourist Visa or Visa exempt, and then in Thailand changed to a Non Imm O Visa, the new health insurance requirement does NOT apply for you.

It only applies for holders of Non Imm OA Visas and these can only be obtained in your home-country.

In case of doubt > check the original Visa in your passport whether it says O or O-A

2. At the present moment it is not fully clear whether the health insurance requirement will also apply for Non Imm OA extensions of stay.  It's a crazy situation but only time will tell, when you are holder of an OA Visa that was issued before Oct 31, whether health insurance will also be required for your extension of stay.  In my opinion I don't think it will be required, but let's wait for the first reports of OA holders doing their extension of stay. 

3. And most relevant at this moment > When is your extension of stay due?

If it is only due in 3 months or longer, than you have more than enough time to consider your options.

When you are an O Visa holder, there won't be any issue at all for extension of stay.

When you are an OA Visa holder, by then it will be known whether health insurance will be required or not, for the extension of stay.

> Apart from the above, it definitely makes much sense in your situation to ensure that you are properly health insured, especially with your health now deteriorating.

Wish you best of luck!   

 

 

[chilly07]

For O visa extensions TI check funds in Thailand so no insurance  needed.  For OA renewals on the bounce TI can't check that funds are available in Thailand  so insurance needed.  QED

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, PatchinExPat said:

I have kept my medicare part A and B , plus I have the medicare gap coverage for my employment as a fire fighter in home city. United health care.

Part B cost about 135 and my extra coverage cost about 160

I could just keep the Medicare and hope I never need it.

Lots to think about.

 

I got my Visa in Thailand , I was on a 90 visa issued in the USA.

It was my 3ed such visa and it after my wife and I got married.

So I am on an O retirement visa.

Thanks.

 

You should keep the Part B as if you drop it and for any reason return to the US there will be a penalty. Likewise if you for any reason wish to get treatment in the US, even while living in Thailand, Part A alone won't suffice.

 

You might however think of dropping the  Medicare Gap policy. Indeed, it is possible it is not valid when living outside the US, check the policy wording, many require that you be resident in the US at least 6 months out of 12.

 

The $160/mo saved will easily cover a policy in Thailand. Although not required by Imm for your type of visa, you should get one and might as well make it one that is one Immigration's approved list of companies just in case there is a future requirement, since by then you might be unable to get a new policy.

 

Assume you know you could also get an extension of stay based on marriage rather than retirement. Lower financial requirement, no insurance requirement.

 

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Non-O (Retirement) extensions as well as the Non-OAs so feel a strategy of converting to one is short lived at best, quite possibly a complete waste of time.

It may get you many years, one year or 3 months.....

[Max69xl]

On 10/31/2019 at 11:18 AM, PatchinExPat said:

Thank you Sheryl will download and read

At your age the insurance will cost a lot of money. Have you considered start all over with a new 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa from Laos and then after 60 days extend it 1 year at your local immigration for 1900 baht? No insurance needed. But you have to meet the financial requirements of course.

[Harveyg]

On 10/30/2019 at 9:14 PM, Sheryl said:

See here. At age 70 there are on;y 2-3 possible choices among the companies approved by TI.

 

I’m turning 69 and thus entering my 70th year. Are there more choices for me than listed above?  Or am I treated the same?

[Sheryl]

14 minutes ago, Harveyg said:

On 10/31/2019 at 11:14 AM, Sheryl said:

See here. At age 70 there are on;y 2-3 possible choices among the companies approved by TI.

 

I’m turning 69 and thus entering my 70th year. Are there more choices for me than listed above?  Or am I treated the same?

Please the attachment to the link posted above. All the info needed is there.