O/A visa and insurance experience today

[Max69xl]

Just now, Sheryl said:

 

MoPH made the request for a system but the details appear to have been put together by the OIC and local companies and yes, Immigration (the last insofar as things like effective date go).

 

I get the sense that neither MoPH nor Immigration know what the details of the approved insurance options are, e.g. that there is no option for people over 75 and that all policuies exclude pre-exisitng conditions  etc.

 

And MoPH is on for a rude awakening when people with "approved" policies end up still unable  to pay bills, as will happen.

I do understand that Immigration hasn't got a clue about policies. It's not their area of expertise. But MoPH should know, right? Kicking out 70+ retirees with no prior insurance is insane imo. 

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I would like to know the reason why some/many foreign insurance companies refuses to sign the certificate. If I buy a quite expensive foreign insurance with a specific policy, what are they afraid of? The certificate doesn't change anything.

 

Among other things the certificate asks them to attest that your policy conforms to a Thai Government Cabinet Resolution which they have no way of knowing the contents of. There isn't even an official English translation of it.

 

You really can't fault a company for not being willing to sign that. I wouldn't either.

 

I am informed by a  Canadian member that the Vancouver Consulate agreed to accept a copy of his policy documents. Bets thing for anyone in this situation to do is ask the concerned Embassy or Consulate to do the same.

 

Of course as it currently stands, even if they do accept it, you get only the first year, unless you then go back home and get a new OA visa. You can't use it for a second year entry.

[Max69xl]

Just now, phetpeter said:

So, why can't they have an insurance counter for people to purchase insurance on arrival?? (perhaps they are thinking of it, but, too many immg officers families are bidding to run it?) 

You want to start with paying 50-70000 baht at the airport? That doesn't sound like something anyone want to do. 

[pookondee]

12 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Fyi,the Health Department came up with the idea of a mandatory health insurance,not Immigration. But Immigration has to enforce it.

Of course I dont know how the decision process is structured here, but surely someone in government and/or immigration must of signed off on it, to get the green light? 

[Sheryl]

US citizens:

 

As mentioned I emailed the Embassy and much to my pleasant surprised received a very prompt response as follows:

 

"Sheryl,

Thank you very much for your email and this on-the-ground perspective.  Over the past six months, we have been engaging the Royal Thai government (RTG) to attempt to ensure that U.S. health insurance policies can be used to satisfy the new immigration requirement for health insurance for foreign retirees.  This advocacy was done by official Diplomatic Note, as well as during the recent RTG press conference announcing the policy.  During that event, the Consul General cited US veterans with TRICARE coverage specially as a population of concern in Thailand.  At least one other Embassy (the UK) cited concern as well.

The U.S. Embassy plans to continue our advocacy with the RTG regarding the option for U.S. citizens to use existing insurance – regardless of where that insurance is based – to meet the requirements.  We acknowledge there could be a difficult transition period as the Thai’s determine exactly how to implement the new health insurance requirement.  As you note, the language in the official police order is vague in some respects.  Therefore, we may have some room to navigate and improve on implementation. 

Ultimately, this is a Thai regulation and the Thai government is the final arbiter of how this regulation will be implemented.

Again, we will continue to engage with the RTP on this issue.

Respectfully,

ACS"

 

I again encourage others -- and not just Americans - to contact their Embassies as  it appears that they at least have the opportunity to engage in dialogue on the issue, which is a lot more than we do.

[Mango Bob]

27 minutes ago, FPizzle said:

I'm totally confused. I renew again in June, 2020 (13th year). I have my monthly deposit in line and now I see this. Do I need health insurance or not?  Just for fun I checked all of the companies listed and none, that I can see, will offer insurance to a person over 70 unless it is a renewal. These are the guidelines I found for the O-A (Retirement) renewal and there doesn't seem to be anything indicating a way to get around it.  It also states that if you have insurance from overseas you will have to show proof of Thai issued insurance at renewal. As usual none of this makes any sense!

Applicant must be aged 50 years old and over (on the day of visa submission application)

This visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year each time.

Health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for Inpatient, and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient.

In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the O-A visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category “O” visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence.

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. Any inquiries on completing Insurance application can be addressed at each insurance company.

I believe there are two companies that will talk you past 70.  Once is Pacific Cross if you get their policy before 75  they could insure  you to 99.

[phetpeter]

Alot of countries are doing this, When I went to Saudi this year to work, I received an insurance policy with the visa.  But, word of warning. It should have an e card, or actual card to use if you require to use. Contacted supplier and haven't heard back. not sure if this could become a problem with Thai medical, luckily I am and have been paying in the Social security system in Thailand for many years so covered!

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Among other things the certificate asks them to attest that your policy conforms to a Thai Government Cabinet Resolution which they have no way of knowing the contents of. There isn't even an official English translation of it.

 

You really can't fault a company for not being willing to sign that. I wouldn't either.

 

I am informed by a  Canadian member that the Vancouver Consulate agreed to accept a copy of his policy documents. Bets thing for anyone in this situation to do is ask the concerned Embassy or Consulate to do the same.

 

Of course as it currently stands, even if they do accept it, you get only the first year, unless you then go back home and get a new OA visa. You can't use it for a second year entry.

At the beginning everything was about the minimum coverage and OPD. Every ordinary health insurance from overseas covers much more than 400k/40k.

400k is to low and 40k is to high imo. 

 

[Mango Bob]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

US citizens:

 

As mentioned I emailed the Embassy and much to my pleasant surprised received a very prompt response as follows:

 

"Sheryl,

 

 

Thank you very much for your email and this on-the-ground perspective.  Over the past six months, we have been engaging the Royal Thai government (RTG) to attempt to ensure that U.S. health insurance policies can be used to satisfy the new immigration requirement for health insurance for foreign retirees.  This advocacy was done by official Diplomatic Note, as well as during the recent RTG press conference announcing the policy.  During that event, the Consul General cited US veterans with TRICARE coverage specially as a population of concern in Thailand.  At least one other Embassy (the UK) cited concern as well.

 

 

The U.S. Embassy plans to continue our advocacy with the RTG regarding the option for U.S. citizens to use existing insurance – regardless of where that insurance is based – to meet the requirements.  We acknowledge there could be a difficult transition period as the Thai’s determine exactly how to implement the new health insurance requirement.  As you note, the language in the official police order is vague in some respects.  Therefore, we may have some room to navigate and improve on implementation. 

 

 

Ultimately, this is a Thai regulation and the Thai government is the final arbiter of how this regulation will be implemented.

 

 

Again, we will continue to engage with the RTP on this issue.

 

 

Respectfully,

 

 

ACS"

 

I again encourage others -- and not just Americans - to contact their Embassies as  it appears that they at least have the opportunity to engage in dialogue on the issue, which is a lot more than we do.

Sherly

Could I use this email to send to our Tricare in Thailand Facebook group without your name being used?

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You want to start with paying 50-70000 baht at the airport? That doesn't sound like something anyone want to do. 

 

Actually there are reports of a few people doing just that, online, at the airport.

 

Be forewarned that by definition any policy you can buy on the spot is not fully underwritten. Which means that you do not know in advance if a claim will be covered. Accidents will likely not have a problem but anything else will be subject to scrutiny to determine if it was possibly related to a pre-exisitng condition.

[Sheryl]

26 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Sherly

Could I use this email to send to our Tricare in Thailand Facebook group without your name being used?

 

Absolutely. The more voices chiming in the better. Especially important that anyone who has been told directly that Tricare can't be used report it with details (where, when).

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, phetpeter said:

Alot of countries are doing this, When I went to Saudi this year to work, I received an insurance policy with the visa.  But, word of warning. It should have an e card, or actual card to use if you require to use. Contacted supplier and haven't heard back. not sure if this could become a problem with Thai medical, luckily I am and have been paying in the Social security system in Thailand for many years so covered!

 

If you mean covered for the insurance requirement of Immigration, you unfortunately are not. There is currently no exception made for peopel with SS cover.

[MeePeeMai]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

There is currently no exception made for people with SS cover.

There's another group which were either overlooked, or purposely not excluded in the new rule ($$,$$$$).

[Max69xl]

7 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

I believe there are two companies that will talk you past 70.  Once is Pacific Cross if you get their policy before 75  they could insure  you to 99.

And what's the annual cost for a retiree past 70? They will probably raise the cost every 5-6 years. 

[Mango Bob]

7 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

And what's the annual cost for a retiree past 70? They will probably raise the cost every 5-6 years. 

Depends on the policy.  You can ask for a quote and see the policies and cost but it does not take you to a sales rep.  Yes, the older you are the more it going to cost.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Mango Bob

[Max69xl]

13 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

There's another group which were either overlooked, or purposely not excluded in the new rule ($$,$$$$).

They didn't look or overlook any group what so ever. 

[Sheryl]

23 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I do understand that Immigration hasn't got a clue about policies. It's not their area of expertise. But MoPH should know, right? Kicking out 70+ retirees with no prior insurance is insane imo. 

Actually no, I would not expect MoPH to know much of anything regarding private health insurance. Very, very few Thais have it. The health coverage system is not built on it.  What they know about is their own universal coverage scheme and SS achemes. They are in for a rude shock.

 

The ins and outs of private health insurance are very  familiar to me because I come from a country where the healty system relies on it. People from countries where this is not the case usually know very little about it. And it is not a simple subject.

 

It looks to me like both MoPH and Immigration basically handed it over to this consortium of local companies to deal with...witness the lack of detail in the Imm order and ita reference to the tgia website which is a pretty unusual thing for a govt agency to do.

 

Unfortunately the local health insurance sector here is (1) very weak and (2) has a clear conflict of interest in deciding things like whether foreign policies can he used. 

[MeePeeMai]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

They didn't look or overlook any group what so ever. 

I know, they didn't tink too mut about anything other than the new money tree that they created.

[Max69xl]

8 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Depends on the policy.  You can ask for a quote and see the policies and cost but it does not take you to a sales rep.  Yes, the older you are the more it going to cost.

I'll give you a clue, the cost post 70 (with no prior insurance) and up is huge. And every 5-6 years the cost goes up. I am still talking about minimum coverage. Don't forget pre-existing conditions. They are normally excluded. 

[Sheryl]

20 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

And what's the annual cost for a retiree past 70? They will probably raise the cost every 5-6 years. 

Please see the pinned thread in the health forum which provides this information.

[saiber]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

Among other things the certificate asks them to attest that your policy conforms to a Thai Government Cabinet Resolution which they have no way of knowing the contents of. There isn't even an official English translation of it.

 

You really can't fault a company for not being willing to sign that. I wouldn't either.

 

I am informed by a  Canadian member that the Vancouver Consulate agreed to accept a copy of his policy documents. Bets thing for anyone in this situation to do is ask the concerned Embassy or Consulate to do the same.

 

Of course as it currently stands, even if they do accept it, you get only the first year, unless you then go back home and get a new OA visa. You can't use it for a second year entry.

Why you couldn't use it for the second year? Just take a 2 year insurance validy ( or even longer) and get the foreign insurer certificate signed.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, saiber said:

Why you couldn't use it for the second year? Just take a 2 year insurance validy ( or even longer) and get the foreign insurer certificate signed.

 

 

Thai health insurance policies are normally written only for one-year periods, annually renewable. Which happens to match with the annual extension of stay durations.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

You want to start with paying 50-70000 baht at the airport? That doesn't sound like something anyone want to do. 

discussing pre existing conditions, all the variation and intricate options around medical cover.. in a rush at an airport counter ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Another report re O-A extensions of stay:

 

 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, phetpeter said:

luckily I am and have been paying in the Social security system in Thailand for many years so covered!

While you would think that would be the case, the situation currently appears that it has to be one of the approved policies listed.. And Thai social security isnt one of them. 

Will be interesting to see how that develops. 

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, Hayduke said:

 

Are you freaking serious? I know damned well what visa I entered the country with. And I'm not going to play any silly 'show and tell' games with you. You're free to believe me or to not believe me. Up to you.

 

 

OK up to you, but you do have to understand that so far every report of success on this issue has, under examination turned out to be trolling, miss understanding, or simply people who are clueless as to what visa class they had. 

You may be the first, its not like immigration is usually ever this consistent, but yours is the outlier not the norm and outliers need to be verified. 

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Another report re O-A extensions of stay:

 

 

I wouldnt put much faith in one post from a new member, who hasn't returned to answer questions posed by myself and other posters.

[Peter Denis]

55 minutes ago, saiber said:

Why you couldn't use it for the second year? Just take a 2 year insurance validy ( or even longer) and get the foreign insurer certificate signed.

When you apply for the OA Visa in your home-country, and you meet all other requirements as well as have the certificate stating the foreign insurance meets the thai health insurance requirements, the Embassy/consultate will issue you an OA Visa valid for 1 year from date of issue (or to the end date of the foreign insurance policy if that happens to expire more early).

But once you have entered Thailand, you would have to deal with the thai immigrant officials upon re-entry in the country or applying for extension of stay.  And thai immigration will only accept thai health insurance (as stated in the Police Order), so even if your foreign insurance would cover 2 years and the certificate would state that, it would not be accepted by thai immigration.

So even if you were issued an OA based on a foreign insurance certificate, once you leave and want to re-enter Thailand you will be confronted with this mandatory thai-exclusive insurance requirement. 

Logically, the only way that can work is that you then would be obliged to buy thai health insurance that would cover your full 2nd year.  So that e.g. when you exit Thailand for a trip abroad and then re-enter after 2 months, the first 2 months of that thai insurance policy would be valid and you could be stamped in for the full year (the first 10 months on your foreign insurance, the next 2 months on your thai insurance).

 

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, Hayduke said:

 

I initially started with an O-A. I successfully did a retirement extension and got a multiple re-entry permit yesterday (7 Nov) at CW. No one so much as mentioned the word 'insurance'. Everyone might want to calm down some...until there are more facts and fewer speculations.

That is one person in one office. Other offices do not have the same attitude and are following the rules in the police order.

[Martyp]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is one person in one office. Other offices do not have the same attitude and are following the rules in the police order.

Yes. But that is exactly what we want to hear in this thread. Experiences in different offices. He never said that what he experienced applies everywhere. And CW isn’t just some office in the remote countryside. It’s a big important office serving a great many expats. Maybe it was not the best thing to tell everyone to relax but he has provided a datapoint for us to add to the mix.