Apple co-founder says Apple Card algorithm gave wife lower credit limit

[webfact]

Apple co-founder says Apple Card algorithm gave wife lower credit limit

By Subrat Patnaik

 

Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple, talks to people during a launch event in Cupertino, California, U.S., September 12, 2017. REUTERS/Stephen Lam/Files

 

(Reuters) - Apple Inc <AAPL.O> co-founder Steve Wozniak joined in the online debate over accusations of gender discrimination by the algorithm behind the iPhone maker's credit card, fuelling scrutiny of the newly launched Apple Card.

 

The criticism started on Thursday, after entrepreneur David Heinemeier Hansson railed against the Apple Card in a series of Twitter posts, saying it gave him 20 times the credit limit his wife received.

 

The much anticipated titanium credit card, part of a broader effort by Apple to derive greater revenue from services after years of heavy reliance on iPhone sales, was launched in August, in partnership with Goldman Sachs Group Inc <GS.N>.

 

In an email, Goldman said Apple Card applicants were evaluated independently, according to income and creditworthiness, taking into account factors such as personal credit scores and personal debt.

 

It was possible for two family members to receive significantly different credit decisions, the bank said, but added, "We have not, and will not, make decisions based on factors like gender."

 

Hansson, who is the creator of web-application framework Ruby on Rails, did not disclose any specific income-related information for himself or his wife but tweeted that they filed joint tax returns and that his wife had a better credit score.

 

On Saturday, Wozniak chimed in with a similar experience, saying he got 10 times more credit on the card, compared with his wife.

 

"We have no separate bank or credit card accounts or any separate assets," Wozniak said on Twitter, in reply to Hansson's original tweet.

 

"Hard to get to a human for a correction though. It's big tech in 2019."

 

New York's Department of Financial Services said it was beginning an inquiry into Goldman Sachs' credit card practices.

 

"New York law prohibits discrimination against protected classes of individuals," Linda Lacewell, the superintendent of the New York State Department of Financial Services, wrote in a blog post. (http://bit.ly/2Ny1TUA)

 

That barred an algorithm, like any other method of determining creditworthiness, from disparate treatment based on individual characteristics such as age, creed, race, color, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, among others, she added.

 

"We know the question of discrimination in algorithmic decisioning also extends to other areas of financial services."

 

Apple did not immediately respond to a Reuters request for comment on Sunday.

 

(Reporting by Subrat Patnaik and additional reporting by Ismail Shakil in Bengaluru; Editing by Gerry Doyle and Clarence Fernandez)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-11-11

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[BritManToo]

Women should get a higher credit limit because they buy more on credit.

 

Slightly off topic,

As a foreigner in Thailand, I can't get credit.

But my Thai gf can get credit (even though unemployed), because she's living with a foreigner.

How does that work?

Edited November 11, 2019 by BritManToo

[Geoffggi]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

The criticism started on Thursday, after entrepreneur David Heinemeier Hansson railed against the Apple Card in a series of Twitter posts, saying it gave him 20 times the credit limit his wife received.

He should have told the truth when mentioning how much she was paid....LOL

[klauskunkel]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

titanium credit card

Hah, I've got an Unobtainium Credit Card... Beat that you wannabes! 

[alanrchase]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Women should get a higher credit limit because they buy more on credit.

 

Slightly off topic,

As a foreigner in Thailand, I can't get credit.

But my Thai gf can get credit (even though unemployed), because she's living with a foreigner.

How does that work?

How does that work? It means they will be round to break your legs, not hers, if they are not repaid.

[paahlman]

Thaitanium cards coming soon!

[Bluespunk]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

On Saturday, Wozniak chimed in with a similar experience, saying he got 10 times more credit on the card, compared with his wife.

 

"We have no separate bank or credit card accounts or any separate assets," Wozniak said

That is a fairly damning fact. 

 

[rgraham]

Apple = Lemon

[Caldera]

Come on, he's The Woz, which algorithm wouldn't give him almost unlimited credit?

 

[farangchuma]

Gave me 50,000 USD on my apple card. No wife. Now my total available credits for 70 cards approaching one million dollar. How can I put it to good use? 4-5K USD in cash back every year and 3% loan invested in S&P 500 index is returning 6% (though a loss last year). Simply making money using other people's money.

Edited November 11, 2019 by farangchuma

[Cryingdick]

Much to do about nothing. Anybody that knows Apple will know they are always at the forefront of human rights for all people. They are one of the most progressive companies on the planet in that way. 

 

Not sure if Apple is even involved or if it is on Goldman Sachs' end. AAPL is at all time highs today and GS is down maybe a percent or so. Seems to imply it's on the GS side. The card is Apple branded but it is Goldman that issues the things.

 

 

[Cryingdick]

1 hour ago, farangchuma said:

Gave me 50,000 USD on my apple card. No wife. Now my total available credits for 70 cards approaching one million dollar. How can I put it to good use? 4-5K USD in cash back every year and 3% loan invested in S&P 500 index is returning 6% (though a loss last year). Simply making money using other people's money.

 

You lost money last year and  only made 6% this year? The SPY is up over 9% this year. I also used a lot of leverage last year and bought a ton of Apple. So you used a 3% margin loan to gain 3% resulting in a gain of 6%? Take away the margin you made 3% in total on a year you should have made 9% using index funds. Using leverage at 1:1 you should have done closer to 15% because you are using other peoples money. 18% minus the 3% margin loan.

 

That's a pretty sad rate of return considering the over all market is good. How to put money to work? Maybe invest in some webinars to teach you what index funds are worthwhile. 

 

Here is my account. It only goes back to April but is up 18.5%. If it went back to January when the market really moved higher you would see it is more like 35%. 

 

Sorry to all who think talking stocks is evil but that post made me laugh.