In Trump-Nixon impeachment comparison, Pelosi raises specter of resignation

[Tug]

2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Quite an emotional outburst.  My guess is you know the "impeachment" nonsense is coming to an end, Trump will NOT be removed, and he WILL be reelected.

I doubt he will be removed but he imo he will wreck the Republican Party and they will lose in 2020 both houses and the presidency it will take decades to clean the stink this man has wrought appon the party

[Monomial]

3 hours ago, J Town said:

And this is really what it comes down to. You either accept this deplorable man for all the ghastly criminal acts he's done or you don't. I forgot to add he recently had to plead guilty for stealing money from U.S. veterans. That anyone can get behind such wretched behavior is unfathomable to people capable of critical thinking. These same Trump supporters can't make cogent arguments - take this response for example. Deplete of facts, merely tossing out emotional feces in an attempt to evoke an argumentative retort.

 

The problem is that this argument is not about facts. It is about values. In order to understand why the concept that "others can actually support Trump" is unfathomable to you, you first need to understand what separates their value system from your own. Facts are largely irrelevant to this discussion. Trump supporters do not disagree on facts. They simply don't see Trump's attrocities as being worse than what came before.

 

Have you ever tried to listen to a Trump supporter without injecting your own code onto them? Their position is actually fairly self consistent. They really aren't evil, ignorant people. They simply believe that the current system has strayed so far from what is optimal, that Trump's rule breaking is an acceptable part of bringing it back in line. Bad things happen in war, so to speak. The interesting discussions all begin not with Trump, but what has gone wrong long before Trump. Once you see where your value systems and theirs differ, you can begin having a meaningful discussion.

 

Or you can sit there as you are now, saying they are all incomprehensible and tarring them all as evil, stupid racists. My mother is a Trump supporter. She is very intelligent, does not have a racist bone in her body, and is one of the most caring and kind people I know. But she has values that are different from both myself and my sister. She knows what Trump is. She is simply resigned to the fact that this is the kind of individual it will take to right the wrongs of the past and change the direction of the country.

 

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

The problem is that this argument is not about facts. It is about values. In order to understand why the concept that "others can actually support Trump" is unfathomable to you, you first need to understand what separates their value system from your own. Facts are largely irrelevant to this discussion. Trump supporters do not disagree on facts. They simply don't see Trump's attrocities as being worse than what came before.

 

Have you ever tried to listen to a Trump supporter without injecting your own code onto them? Their position is actually fairly self consistent. They really aren't evil, ignorant people. They simply believe that the current system has strayed so far from what is optimal, that Trump's rule breaking is an acceptable part of bringing it back in line. Bad things happen in war, so to speak. The interesting discussions all begin not with Trump, but what has gone wrong long before Trump. Once you see where your value systems and theirs differ, you can begin having a meaningful discussion.

 

Or you can sit there as you are now, saying they are all incomprehensible and tarring them all as evil, stupid racists. My mother is a Trump supporter. She is very intelligent, does not have a racist bone in her body, and is one of the most caring and kind people I know. But she has values that are different from both myself and my sister. She knows what Trump is. She is simply resigned to the fact that this is the kind of individual it will take to right the wrongs of the past and change the direction of the country.

 

Sorry, I don't buy into that. I'm sure there are people like you describe, see your mother, but I'm also convinced, and the stats back that up, that the vast, vast majority of his supporters are low educated racists.

[Skallywag]

Trump may be fine Physically, as his aides claim the doctor report said on Friday (only Phase one of the physical though). 

The trouble is his Mental health is deteriorating rapidly. 

140 tweets about the impeachment hearings in just 3 days? 

That is just not sane.  His ranting is repetitive, inane, and just embarrassing

He thinks the impeachment hearings will stop if he keeps tweeting about it as another "witch hunt"?

The whole of his cabinet, staff, and the GOP are witnessing his meltdown and just hoping he doesn't soil himself at his next rally. 

POTUS having rally's and playing golf is about all we can expect from him at this point in his mental decline. 

I wonder why only a Physical exam is required and not a Mental health evaluation?

 

[Skallywag]

16 minutes ago, Monomial said:

My mother is a Trump supporter. She is very intelligent, does not have a racist bone in her body, and is one of the most caring and kind people I know.

Not possible, 

[Skallywag]

3 hours ago, Kelsall said:

My guess is you know the "impeachment" nonsense is coming to an end,

Bring it on Kelsall.  When is it coming to an end? 

U.S. Congressmen and women say not until next year and McConnell vows to have a trial in the Senate

[J Town]

4 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

The problem is that this argument is not about facts. It is about values. In order to understand why the concept that "others can actually support Trump" is unfathomable to you, you first need to understand what separates their value system from your own. Facts are largely irrelevant to this discussion. Trump supporters do not disagree on facts. They simply don't see Trump's attrocities as being worse than what came before.

 

Have you ever tried to listen to a Trump supporter without injecting your own code onto them? Their position is actually fairly self consistent. They really aren't evil, ignorant people. They simply believe that the current system has strayed so far from what is optimal, that Trump's rule breaking is an acceptable part of bringing it back in line. Bad things happen in war, so to speak. The interesting discussions all begin not with Trump, but what has gone wrong long before Trump. Once you see where your value systems and theirs differ, you can begin having a meaningful discussion.

 

Or you can sit there as you are now, saying they are all incomprehensible and tarring them all as evil, stupid racists. My mother is a Trump supporter. She is very intelligent, does not have a racist bone in her body, and is one of the most caring and kind people I know. But she has values that are different from both myself and my sister. She knows what Trump is. She is simply resigned to the fact that this is the kind of individual it will take to right the wrongs of the past and change the direction of the country.

 

Yours is a thoughtful, polite response. I also know some Trump supporters who don't have a mean bone in their body. I will respectfully disagree - it IS about facts. Trump is a criminal, performing criminal acts, bringing the U.S. down from the "beacon on the hill" that it used to be and turning it into a banana republic. People have died, families have been forever ruined, environmental protections are being removed in order to monetize the planet, all because of Trump's greedy, childish decisions - and the list goes on and continues to grow. To deny your own security forces and take sides with foreign adversaries amounts to treason. Strong arming desperate countries into doing your bidding by getting them involved in the American election process should make every citizen SHUDDER!

 

Since you propose that Trump supporters eschew facts, then they should be shaken to their very core over the feeling of the country being hijacked by a con man. This is a fact: The majority of Fox viewers are white evangelicals. Trump plays on their fear of the country being run over by non-whites (just listen to any one of his rallies), stokes their anger with lie after lie (where DID that caravan finally go?). I watch a little Fox every now and then - know your enemy and all that - and can't believe how wretched they are. The loaded falsehoods, the blatant bull is shameful, but the average viewer is delusional to begin with and they sop up that spew.

 

I'm sorry, I'll stick with facts. I understand Trump supporters care not about them, they wouldn't be Trump supporters in the first place if they were. And I'll continue to fight the good fight using the TRUTH in the hope that maybe SOME reality will eventually get through to them. As of this time and date, no Trump supporter has been able to refute any of my posts using facts.

[Monomial]

1 minute ago, J Town said:

Yours is a thoughtful, polite response. I also know some Trump supporters who don't have a mean bone in their body. I will respectfully disagree - it IS about facts. Trump is a criminal, performing criminal acts, bringing the U.S. down from the "beacon on the hill" that it used to be and turning it into a banana republic. People have died, families have been forever ruined, environmental protections are being removed in order to monetize the planet, all because of Trump's greedy, childish decisions - and the list goes on and continues to grow. To deny your own security forces and take sides with foreign adversaries amounts to treason. Strong arming desperate countries into doing your bidding by getting them involved in the American election process should make every citizen SHUDDER!

 

Since you propose that Trump supporters eschew facts, then they should be shaken to their very core over the feeling of the country being hijacked by a con man. This is a fact: The majority of Fox viewers are white evangelicals. Trump plays on their fear of the country being run over by non-whites (just listen to any one of his rallies), stokes their anger with lie after lie (where DID that caravan finally go?). I watch a little Fox every now and then - know your enemy and all that - and can't believe how wretched they are. The loaded falsehoods, the blatant bull is shameful, but the average viewer is delusional to begin with and they sop up that spew.

 

I'm sorry, I'll stick with facts. I understand Trump supporters care not about them, they wouldn't be Trump supporters in the first place if they were. And I'll continue to fight the good fight using the TRUTH in the hope that maybe SOME reality will eventually get through to them. As of this time and date, no Trump supporter has been able to refute any of my posts using facts.

 

You are, of course, welcome to continue espousing that position. But you will not be having meaningful discussions with Trump supporters in that case. You will only be talking to those who already agree with you. If you actually want to make an impact on a Trump supporter, you will need to address the areas where their values and your values differ.

 

With the approach you are taking, it is nothing more than theater played out to others like yourself who enjoy this kind of entertainment.  As long as you remain insistent on your approach, the increasing divide in the country will only continue to increase. Most importantly, Trump won't be going anywhere. 

 

[Thainesss]

16 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Sorry, I don't buy into that. I'm sure there are people like you describe, see your mother, but I'm also convinced, and the stats back that up, that the vast, vast majority of his supporters are low educated racists.

 

I talk a lot about politics in real life with people from all over but never has a person said anything like this to my face (and I wouldn't recommend anyone to go out and try it on) yet on this forum people say things like this with immunity and say it constantly, knowing full well that its simply not true and nothing more than an outright insult. 

[Thainesss]

Just now, Monomial said:

You are, of course, welcome to continue espousing that position. But you will not be having meaningful discussions with Trump supporters in that case. You will only be talking to those who already agree with you. If you actually want to make an impact on a Trump supporter, you will need to address the areas where their values and your values differ.

 

With the approach you are taking, it is nothing more than theater played out to others like yourself who enjoy this kind of entertainment.  As long as you remain insistent on your approach, the increasing divide in the country will only continue to increase. Most importantly, Trump won't be going anywhere. 

 

They don't care. Never will. They are the moral betters and everyone else should be cancelled and shamed and guilted and mocked all the while blaming the targets of their mockery and ridicule and insults as the reason for the divide in the country like that is somehow a reasonable way to get people over to their side and win votes. This attitude permeates their entire political side today from the top down. 

[sirineou]

11 hours ago, neeray said:

I for one, would not take your bet (maybe wishful thinking by me).

Here's why. I think there is more to his unscheduled medical visit this weekend than is being told.

Maybe there truly are medical issues. As we all know, lots can go wrong in the body of a 72 year old, overweight man who practices a poor diet and places tonnage of stress on himself.

Or, he is setting the stage for resigning "due to health reasons" as a face saving measure to being impeached or losing in 2020. The writing is on the wall for either/both to happen.

He's done a lot of Teflon-type wiggling in his 3 years but there isn't much wiggle room this time.

The can of WD-40 has run dry.

 

"We'll see, we'll see what happens"

He can not resign, even a resignation with a pardon only shields him from federal prosecution,  not state charges of which there are many. His only chance is to be re-elected and run down the clock on the statute of limitations.

 

9 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Trump may be fine Physically, as his aides claim the doctor report said on Friday (only Phase one of the physical though). 

 

 

He is not Physically fine.

If he was fine he would have never gone to the hospital for an early routine medical examination . why would he have done, that?He  had nothing better to do that day and decided to have a routine medical? 

 They know damn well that such a visit would raise concerns and give the Democrats ammunition, If it was not serious the never would have gone.

[J Town]

10 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

You are, of course, welcome to continue espousing that position. But you will not be having meaningful discussions with Trump supporters in that case. You will only be talking to those who already agree with you. If you actually want to make an impact on a Trump supporter, you will need to address the areas where their values and your values differ.

 

With the approach you are taking, it is nothing more than theater played out to others like yourself who enjoy this kind of entertainment.  As long as you remain insistent on your approach, the increasing divide in the country will only continue to increase. Most importantly, Trump won't be going anywhere. 

 

Then prove me wrong. We ALL should have the same values of decency (Trump has none), honesty (I don't even HAVE to go THERE to explain what a lying, cheating, thieving, homophobic xenophobe he is), integrity (big vacuum THERE!) - just explain to me why I should have to disavow all MY values in order to have a discussion with a Trump supporter.

Edited November 18, 2019 by J Town

[Thainesss]

1 minute ago, J Town said:

Then prove me wrong. We ALL should have the same values of decency (Trump has none), honesty (I don't even HAVE to go THERE to explain what a lying, cheating, thieving, homophobic xenophobe he is), integrity (big vacuum THERE!) - just explain to me how I would have to disavow all MY values to have a discussion with a Trump supporter.

 

Then don't have that discussion because to be frank your attitude is flat out bigotry towards millions and millions of people based on political views. People who support Trump simply disagree politically with you, but they are still taxpayers and citizens of the same society as you are and have every right to believe what they believe, just as you do. 

 

Just because Trump is in office and you hate Trump is not a justification to take it out on people who voted for him. You should take it out on the party you want to win. Its the politicians that are the problem, not the people. Always has been. 

[Monomial]

Just now, J Town said:

Then prove me wrong. We ALL should have the same values of decency (Trump has none), honesty (I don't even HAVE to go THERE to explain what a lying, cheating, thieving, homophobic xenophobe he is), integrity (big vacuum THERE!) - just explain to me how I would have to disavow all MY values to have a discussion with a Trump supporter.

 

You don't disavow your values. I would never suggest that. Instead, you listen to their values and engage with them on the places where you both agree. Historically, this is called a canon. Most of us are familiar with "literary canon", a group of books which everyone should read so they have a place to begin discussions. But canon applies to other areas as well, such as politics and ethics.  Having  established a canon, you can then expand and start to see where your values diverge.  And then address those areas, so that the other side doesn't feel that they need to resort to a psycopath and a demagogue in order to be heard.

 

The American public has for too long forgotten how to speak to each other.  If the other issues were addressed, everyone would agree that Trump is not good. But right now, Trump supporters feel they have to stoop to this level just to get their concerns addressed. Show them instead that there is another way. Trump is just a symptom, not the disease. But be warned. You are going to need to make concessions as well, and grant them the courtesy to respect their feelings on divergent issues.

 

If you do this, you'll find Trump supporters aren't bad people. They just have different concerns than you. And if you respect their values, they are more than likely to respect yours as well. If we all did this, there would be no division for a demagogue like Trump to exploit.

 

 

[J Town]

Just now, Thainesss said:

 

Then don't have that discussion because to be frank your attitude is flat out bigotry towards millions and millions of people based on political views. People who support Trump simply disagree politically with you, but they are still taxpayers and citizens of the same society as you are and have every right to believe what they believe, just as you do. 

 

Just because Trump is in office and you hate Trump is not a justification to take it out on people who voted for him. You should take it out on the party you want to win. Its the politicians that are the problem, not the people. Always has been. 

And you prove my point. Not one fact. You cast aspersions (calling ME a bigot? Shame!). I post facts, you post insults. Thanks again, and still waiting for someone to PROVE me wrong using those pesky FACTS!

[Thainesss]

Just now, J Town said:

And you prove my point. Not one fact. You cast aspersions (calling ME a bigot? Shame!). I post facts, you post insults. Thanks again, and still waiting for someone to PROVE me wrong using those pesky FACTS!

 

I have no idea what your point is and I don't think that you do either. And yes, that is bigotry in its purest and most basic form. Here is the definition for you:

 

Quote

Intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

 

That is precisely what you are guilty of. You are, frankly, everything that you seem to hate so much. 

[J Town]

2 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

You don't disavow your values. I would never suggest that. Instead, you listen to their values and engage with them on the places where you both agree. Historically, this is called a canon. Most of us are familiar with "literary canon", a group of books which everyone should read so they have a place to begin discussions. But canon applies to other areas as well, such as politics and ethics.  Having  established a canon, you can then expand and start to see where your values diverge.  And then address those areas, so that the other side doesn't feel that they need to resort to a psycopath and a demagogue in order to be heard.

 

The American public has for too long forgotten how to speak to each other.  If the other issues were addressed, everyone would agree that Trump is not good. But right now, Trump supporters feel they have to stoop to this level just to get their concerns addressed. Show them instead that there is another way. Trump is just a symptom, not the disease. But be warned. You are going to need to make concessions as well, and grant them the courtesy to respect their feelings on divergent issues.

 

If you do this, you'll find Trump supporters aren't bad people. They just have different concerns than you. And if you respect their values, they are more than likely to respect yours as well. If we all did this, there would be no division for a demagogue like Trump to exploit.

 

 

And I tried that. I was polite to you, never cast a mean word at you, just laid out the truth. You say we should just hold hands and have a kumbaya moment. I'm sorry, people are dying, policies are exploding like popcorn that are destroying the environment, separating  families, etc. etc.

 

You don't want to talk facts, I don't want to hear bologna. There should be a sense of urgency at all this, but it's similar to the boiling frog scenario. You won't get it until it's too late. Go ahead, get in whatever last word you want on this, I'm done.

[J Town]

3 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

I have no idea what your point is and I don't think that you do either. And yes, that is bigotry in its purest and most basic form. Here is the definition for you:

That is precisely what you are guilty of. You are, frankly, everything that you seem to hate so much. 

What exactly did I post that made you erroneously think it was that of a bigot?

[Thainesss]

Just now, J Town said:

What exactly did I post that made you erroneously think it was that of a bigot?

 

18 minutes ago, J Town said:

just explain to me why I should have to disavow all MY values in order to have a discussion with a Trump supporter.

 

The definition of Bigotry, again for you:

 

Quote

Intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

 

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

I have no idea what your point is and I don't think that you do either. And yes, that is bigotry in its purest and most basic form. Here is the definition for you:

 

 

That is precisely what you are guilty of. You are, frankly, everything that you seem to hate so much. 

Problem is many of trump supporters facts are alternative facts, in the real world called lies.

[Thainesss]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Problem is many of trump supporters facts are alternative facts, in the real world called lies.

 

All politicians lie with reckless abandon but trump tops the list, yes. 

 

That does not mean half of the electorate is Trump, but you know this, you just wanna take your little swipes and then wade back to the shallow end. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Thainesss

[FarangULong]

13 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I would love to see Trump resign, but I would bet my left arm that it won't happen.

 

I understand that people want to see parallels between Trump and Nixon, but it is a false comparison. Nixon, far all his many, many, many faults, had his own sense of honour and understood the concept of public duty and public service.

 

Trump does not.

 

The facts are simple here; Trump tried to use his office to attain a personal benefit (dirt on Biden) and that is illegal. Is there dispute on the facts? No, not really. The Republicans are complaining about process, but there is a deafening silence on the substance of the issue. To sum up, even Republicans know that what Trump did was wrong, even if they are scared to say it aloud.

 

Should Trump resign? Yes. It is clear to all that he has lost the moral right to govern, and when that occurs, there is only one course of action.

 

There are some who argue that the US should wait as there are elections on the horizon, but that is not correct; when a country has a President unbound by any laws and/or ethics, it is imperative to remove him ASAP before further damage is done. What might Trump do in a year before an election? It is too great a risk to leave him in office.

 

The problem in the US is political, not legal (legally, Trump should go and all law-makers know it). As much as it sickens me, there should be an arrangement made for Trump to leave office ASAP and in return to receive a non-prosecution agreement. Yes, I think that he should go to jail for a long time, but removal from office would be acceptable, even if it left a bad taste in the mouth.

 

The question is whether or not the Republicans in the House and Senate are going to have the courage to act. Will they? I do not know, but if I were talking with them, I would remind them that the Republicans who acted in Nixon's time were called "Profiles in Courage"; that would be a nice moniker and legacy to have.

 

Republicans; act now and save your party. Delay or not convict and see Trump's name tattooed on your forehead for a lifetime.

 

Would any of you be willing to have Trump's name tattooed on your forehead for life? 

 

 

 

 Why should he resign? Because you dislike him, because the media lies about him (accusations of racism, etc.) and because he does INDEED say stupid <deleted>, every now and then?

 

Do you even FULLY understand what the Ukraine investigation would have been about? Other than POTENTIALLY influencing the campaign of Joe "Middle Class" Biden?

 

Biden - while VP - helped oust Yanukovich, thus creating instability in the region. As a literal quid pro quo, the new powers-that-be in Ukraine got his sonlet a 500 or 600k USD per year job at an energy provider, even though a) Hunter has ZERO experience in the energy business and b) it's a really nothing but a no-show/no-work job (you know, the kind of job Mafia figures often have to show legitimate income, except far better paying).

 

This is clearly nepotism. Nepotism is a form of corruption. And since this more or less happened mostly in Ukraine, why wouldn't Trump ask the Ukrainian president to investigate?! The US doesn't have jurisdication anywhere outside the US, even with all the puppet and deep-throater governments it has all around the World. So who else was going to investigate?!

 

<deleted> like this needs to be, NO, HAS TO BE investigated. The Republicans do it too, of course, as do most of the major political parties all over the Western World (and probably elsewhere too). However unlike the Reps, the Dems CLAIM to be holier-than-thou, they CLAIM to be against these sort of things (nepotism, corruption, etc.) and to be pro more democracy (yet each time they have the president and/or majority in Lower House and/or Senate or both houses of COngress, the fed. government bloats some more...), but they are the ones perpetuating it also. Sometimes more, than those they love to point the finger at.

 

So while I am not a Trump fan, I am far more disgusted by the constant hate. Americans should know better, than to believe EITHER MSNBC or Fox News, and Europeans etc. are the biggest dolts, as most media here (with some exceptions) usually copies whatever the MSNBC (and other leftie media outlets of the US) spout about Trump, without bothering to fact check, and sometimes even knowingly run with the twisting of facts.

 

To compare Water Gate (where people were ordered to conduct a BREAK IN into Dem offices, for those too young not to know) to asking a foreign government to investigate one of your citizens potentially criminal/corrupt dealings on their soil, is BEYOND ridiculous. It just shows how desperate the Dems are, and how worried they might lose again in the coming election.

 

Since "racist" Trump has become President, there has been the LOWEST unemployment rate of minorities (esp. African-Americans) for DECADES. He even has plenty of support amongst Hispanic/Latino voters (I saw footage of his rallies, and I attended one personally and saw plenty of them), because he is not against the hard working, integrated immigrants (who made the US what it is in the first place), but against illegal immigrants, criminal immigrants, and immigrants who refuse to integrate or even learn English. And that is neither racist, nor is there anything wrong with it. But the media loves to take what he says (i.e. "mexican rapists" and such) out of context, to paint him into the brown corner, while barely any "RACISM LIEK OMG <deleted> BBQ" drama went on, when Hillary refered to Black males as "super predators" and <deleted> like that.

[WalkingOrders]

9 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Any chance of actually disputing the facts or are you just going to go on a hate filled rampage against 'seditionist pigs'? If you genuinely think this is all about crying because the 'President isn't polite' then you haven't been paying attention.

Evidence is mounting on a daily basis that he did indeed commit bribery (an impeachable offence). Career dipomats of impeccable service to the US are putting their careers and their personal safety at risk to testify as such. Yovanovitch has testified under oath that she was pulled back to Washington to clear the way for Trump allies to persuade Ukraine to launch corruption probes into Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden and his son Hunter. Bill Taylor has confirmed there was a conversation between Sondland and Trump overheard from a staffer (David Holmes) and in turn Holmes has also testified under oath that he was present when Trump had asked Sondland “So, he’s going to do the investigation?” to which Sondland responded by saying that Zelensky “loves your ass,” that he would pursue the investigation, and that he would do “anything you ask him to.”

And then there's Gordon Sondland.

This is going to be the the Dems star witness. A Trump appointee and a man who was actually on the calls and is deep, deep in the middle of it all. Now we already know that Sondland has changed his tune in a new, revised statement were he has testified “I said that resumption of the U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anticorruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks,” but since he has also categorily denied there was any 'quid pro quo/bribery' in previous statements it will be super interesting to see which story he will stick to this week, especially now there is a clear threat of perjury. Many think he has no choice other than to come completely clean and honestly tell the world what was actually said in those calls.

So rant and rage as much as you want. Blame 'seditionist pigs' and 'Communist loving, war-mongering filthy mob of scumbag rats' but I wonder how you are going to defend Trump when Sondland confirms all the other witness testimonies are true and accurate? Your boy only has himself to blame as he put himself in this situation and the noose is tightening. Hopefully it will be the end to this embarrassment of a POTUS but knowing the gutless GPO's in the Senate I'm afraid it's just the beginning.

 

  

What do you need from me? More clarity on my point?

[metisdead]

A post containing content copy and pasted from a Facebook page has been removed, again. 

 

Posts containing false and unsubstantiated allegations have been removed. 

[Chomper Higgot]

22 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

All politicians lie with reckless abandon but trump tops the list, yes. 

 

That does not mean half of the electorate is Trump, but you know this, you just wanna take your little swipes and then wade back to the shallow end. 

Everyone lies, if people didn’t we non of us would get along. 

 

But to suggest all politicians lie as an attempt to excuse the steaming torrent of lies that come out of Trump is  very much more than a simple deflection.

 

It is an argument that the constant stream of lies coming from the President of the US are of no matter, of no consequence.

 

I’m sure it helps you navigate the gap between what Trump says and reality, but pease don’t expect the rest of us to swallow that hogwash, his or your own.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[joecoolfrog]

11 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Nancy Pelosi lost her mind about the same time her over-the-top Trump Derangement set in. 

Looking forward to 5 plus more years with Donald J. Trump as President of the USA. ???? 

 

MAGA 

Even the Trolls cant put up a defence !

[Slickrick]

Pelosi should resign because the lack of legislation she has not done and the voters will respond.  

[WalkingOrders]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Everyone lies, if people didn’t we non of us would get along. 

 

But to suggest all politicians lie as an attempt to excuse the steaming torrent of lies that come out of Trump is  very much more than a simple deflection.

 

It is an argument that the constant stream of lies coming from the President of the US are of no matter, of no consequence.

 

I’m sure it helps you navigate the gap between what Trump says and reality, but pease don’t expect the rest of us to swallow that hogwash, his or your own.

I will be civil, let's see how it goes I tried this before, but lets see. There is a never ending stream of accusations against Trump for being racist. Let's begin there. A huge movement exists in the USA of black Americans who are abandoning the Democrat party and following Trump. Let me see if you disparage these people as stupid, Uncle Toms, Ignorant etc , as they couldn't possibly be using reason to take this position right?  This movement has many national figures involved. 

 

Donald Trump has been accused of being an Anti-Semite: Yes as crazy as that sounds, considering he has Jews in his own family, his daughter converted to Judaism, he is the most Pro-Israel President in the history of Israel's existence. Contrast that with OBama, and his state department that literally sold our Ally out! The Prime Minister of Israel literally came the USA to attempt to beg our Congress to go against President OBama's Iran deal. Let that sink in, and they have the nerve to call him an Anti-semite, and someone in league with the Nazis. These same Democrats accused a young black conservative woman - in the Congress of the United States no less - they leveled this accusation - they called this woman a "Nazi Sympathizer" a black conservative woman who leads a national movement of black Americans. 

 

Regarding Charlottesville they never play the entirety of Trumps comments istead the clip them/cut them. He referred to both sides referring to those who were there to protest the tearing down of Confederate statues and those who favored their removal. Into this mix leftist antifa agitators arrived as did Nazis. These two groups were spoken out against by Trump, but he also spoke about the main issue involved which is the Civil war statues. To support the statues not being removed is not racist. You have to be from the South to understand that. This portion of the Country has already paid their price for slavery.

 

Regarding the Russia Mueller probe and accusations of Collusion with the Russians. Mueller found no conspiracy between Trump/Associates with the Russians. What is now coming out is that it is CIA/FBI high level people who engineered this entire mess, along with their DNC co-conspirators. THe FBI and the DNC paid Christopher steele for this Dossier, but I will not say he wrote it. They paid him to front it. THey then leaked it to the press, to demolish Trump AFTER winning the election. What is it that the Democrats made up? And lets be very clear here THEY MADE THIS UP...this is what needs to sink in for any civil minded person. They made this story up and what is it? They claimed that Donald Trump hired prostitutes in Russia in a hotel, to urinate on a bed used by the former President and 1st lady, in an act of moral decrepitude and pure hatred. The accusation itself is so insane, that you would think it must be true because- who could be so morally reprehensible to make up such a story? BUT THEY DID. They coupled this with all kinds of hearsay about tapes existing etc. They (Comey) then attempted to entrap the President with this. Now it is abundantly clear this is pure fiction. Of course there are those IDIOTS who ask for proof that he did not do it? As if any accusation they make demands proof of its falsity rather then it being true. This STORY, this Democrat party gave to my Mother , to our children, to our miltary troops around the world, to our elderly. SO LET THAT SINK IN for a moment, despite any animosity you have for Trumps manner. It is unforgivable to me. In my life I have never seen a party behave in this manner - NEVER!

 

Now what else did this party do? As they fear ROE V WADE legalization of abortion case may be overturned they ruthlessly attack any and all Nominees to the highest court in the land. Now I have been watching these events all my life, but NEVER did I see anything like this. They accused him LITERALLY - in public- with is wife and children watching- on national television- they accused a nominee to the court of being a Gang rapist. What was the evidence? A woman claimed she heard him discussing gang raping women while getting drinks at a party when he was 17 years old, some 30 odd years previous. She later recanted her testimony and could not say whether it as him or not. This is a man who had gone through 7 FBI background investigations during his life time , and had a stellar unblemished record, had more women law clerks then any Justice in history, all of whom said he was a great man to work for and an honor, his cases were over 90 pct in line with the liberal justices on the same court he was on. Yet they accused him of rape, gangrape etc on cases never heard before - they brought an obviously mentally ill woman in to testify hazily that decades earlier he did something to her, but could not remember the location, or time. Witnesses she claimed - new nothing of it, she claimed someone drove her home but no woman came forward- a hoax. And the others on gangrape? Simply faded. In front of his children they did this? Unforgivable - never in my life. 

 

In reaction to losing an election they mounted a campaign they call a "resistance" To what? To a conservative President who has been quite successful. How insane are Trumps policies? Well to begin he called for a moritoriam on immigration on 7 Countries - Muslim - not all - only 7. These countries were identified by the OBAMA administration, because they had issues with terrorism , and most importantly with proving of identy. Very important these days. In response to this - this was the first attempt to paint him racist. The second attempt was the WALL. A border wall in the South which accomplishes 2 things - one it stems the tide of Narcotics, and 2 it ends the unsafe issues of people attempting to cross the border who die in the desert are raped by trafficers, etc. People frequently use children as mules or to provide protection to mules, thus when arrested separation has to take place for processing. It is a crime to enter the USA without visa, proper papers, or a passport. For obvious reasons. The Democrat party has been pushing for an open border to literally stack the voting roles with people they have eating on social programs to vote for them in the future. IF this seems untrue to you, they have literally changed the Demographic in certain states, and continue to do so. TO explain, the USA seeks diversity, but that diversity is NOT supposed to come from primarily only three countries Mexico,Guatamala, Hondruas. What communities are hit the hardest by illegal immigration (including a large amount of repeat criminals) why the LEGAL Immigrant Communities of Mexicans, Hondurans, and Guatamalans, who are terrorized by gangs. It should be said there is also a huge latino movement to move to Trump.

 

As if this was not enough, the Speaker of the House of Representatives put it in writing that Donald Trump must be in Putin's pocket, beholden to him, she literally said "what does Putin have on him" Again this was put out for our Troops both new and seasoned, across the world. For the first time in my life a party was telling our Military to question the Commander and Chief of our armed forces as being a traitor- AGAIN let that sink in. It is UNFORGIVABLE.  So was it true? Not according the the two year multi-million dollar Mueller report. Now the response here will be the typical semantic game of evidence being found etc, but everyone knows that if the police or anyone charges anyone with a crime they bring evidence. But was the evidence sufficient? Ladies and Gentleman, the evidence WAS NOT considered even enough to charge let alone convict. That is the FACT of the matter. You know this because there is no Impeachment on the Russian Collusion story. That one is DEAD. Now they have moved on. Let's examine that.

 

The new story is that Donald Trump is somehow guilty of bribery or extortion. First why these words instead of a "Quid Pro Quo" because the Democrat party held a focus group with the public and found that they  related more to these words. So suddenly within one day the word QUID PRO QUO was dropped by the media, which is nothing more now in the USA then a propaganda arm for the Democrat party. Is this sounding dismal, frightening? It is. The USA is being pushed toward a real violent conflict in the street. I have laid out the unforgivable reasons above. I am not open to negotiations. It literally is one political party dies the other continues. as the offenses are NOT Forgivable. NEVER. Sorry.

 

So again, talking about the whistleblower or so called, what is it? Recently it was disclosed that there is an active "resistance" working inside Federal Government Agencies that is actively opposing Trump policy. So again LET THIS SINK IN: Government unelected bureaucrats opposing the policy of the President. In the free world it is universally accepted that those within Government that find the incoming political parties policies to be distasteful, or they find themselves in opposition, HONORABLY resign for their post. They do not stay on and thward the legal policy positions of an incoming administration. That is wrongful and illegal. 

 

This whistelbower is an example of this. How do we know? He is represented legally by a group that offers money for people to come forward and "Blow the whistle" . the law itself if read does not apply to the Persident by any stretch of immagination, it stops at the Department head and is used by the Department head for cases of fraud, waste, or abuse. The whistelbower has met with members of Intel committe Chair adam schiff staff previous to his filing. It was considered not to have met the standard by dept head but due to the threats of public disclosure, it has come out.

 

And what came out? This. Donald Trump became aware of Democrat National Committee sending operatives to Ukraine to interfere in the US Election and the Ukrainian election as well, and to request certain people NOT be investigated, and the reason in addition to hurting Trump was that Joe Biden's son was on the board of Burisma during the 2016 election, and to investigate Joe Biden's son at this time would have been extremely detrimental to the Democrat party. So let's just look on the face of this. Biden's son has no gas or oil experience. He has no Ukraine background at all. Does not speak Ukrainian. He had within less then one year previous loss a United States Navy Officer Commision because he tested positive for cocaine. So less then a year later, the OBama administration wants Ukraine to open the gas pump to thwart the Russians. So Burisma headed by a someone under investigation by the Ukranians gets Hunter Biden on the board. What was Burisma under investigation for? The guy was buying all the gas production/exloration rights in Ukraine for himself - after being the equivelent Government person in charge of such things. Kind of like a guy who was in charge of the National parks in the USA becoming a civilian and selling himself national park tracts  for oil exploration. Pretty dirty right? SO anyway Hunter Biden winds up on the board. WHY? Well he was collecting $85,000 USD a month to sit on a board....... and collect money. 

 

Trump finds out about this, and asks in this phone call, for the Ukranian President to "Look into it" and find out what has been happening. Why did Trump let go the Ambassador to Ukraine? She had spoke in public against certain Ukranian politicians, that is a no no. She also was pushing to NOT investigate Biden. 

 

SO there you have it. Now on the face of it...I mean just looking at superficially - it seems worth looking into and it goes far far deeper then that. My own opinion as a 61 year old American retired Veteran is that this is the largest case of Corruption I have ever seen in my life.  Peace everyone! Please don't call me a liar etc. Just state your own case separate from mine, and carry on. Opinions here matter not. ALl that matters to me right now is that indictments come down - as the Attorney General and US attorneys are looking into the origins of this right now, I believe that for a healing to take place in the USA those who have committed these acts of sedition need to go to prison. And this includes former heads of FBI/CIA/STate and more.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by WalkingOrders
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[Thainesss]

55 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But to suggest all politicians lie as an attempt to excuse the steaming torrent of lies that come out of Trump is  very much more than a simple deflection.

 

And ignoring everyone elses lies and only focusing on one person and calling that one person the unmitigated source of all Americas problems is cowardly cop-out meant to deflect from your own inadequacy and the inadequacy of your political party. 

[Thainesss]

2 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

I will be civil, let's see how it goes I tried this before, but lets see.

 

You put way more effort into what I know will be met with noting but mockery.