Poll for longer term expats: Do you feel scapegoated as a foreigner here?

[OneMoreFarang]

I suggest any such discussions should be like this:

- Do you think a country should decide which immigrants they allow?

- Do you think it's reasonable that a country demands health insurance from any foreigner?

 

My point is: Don't use the country's name. Just ask all these questions independent of the countries name.

And remind people that this should apply equally to all countries like i.e. Thailand, the UK, USA, etc.

 

Because to me it seems that lots of foreigners who live in Thailand think they should live just the way they want without any conditions. But the same people don't want foreigners back home. Or i.e. those foreigners back home should learn the language and integrate. But the foreigners in Thailand obviously don't have to learn Thai and they don't have to integrate...

 

We are all foreigners almost anywhere in this world...

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you think a country should decide which immigrants they allow?

Not really a fair question as ............

Almost none of us are immigrants in Thailand.

Many Thais are immigrants in the West.

 

Maybe your question should be about long term tourists?

Edited November 25, 2019 by BritManToo

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, saengd said:

A stupid and pointless survey, it's like saying it rained in the city but not at my home, do I feel discriminated against!

 

Visa regulations have been (more) normalised and put more in line with other countries than they were previously, what does it matter how anyone feels it's the way it is and we have our choices. And what does it matter that some ASEAN members are being treated differently, unless you happen to be a national of one of the Asean countries. 

I don't think there is anything remotely normal about the retirement visa system here specifically and I've researched almost all the countries in the world that offer that status so I know way more than the average person about that.

 

So you don't like the poll. Cool. Then back away. It's not for you. But I do want to ask can you supply links to the polls that YOU have started so I can learn from you how it's done. (Everyone's a critic.)

[sunnyboy2018]

22 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You're wrong, the Chinese, Burmese, Khmers and Malays aren't being scapegoated any more than they ever were.

There in no evidence people are being scapegoated. How do you quantify scapegoating? What do mean by Malays do you mean Malaysians? All the nationalities you mention are subject to the same laws as everybody else.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

There in no evidence people are being scapegoated. How do you quantify scapegoating? What do mean by Malays do you mean Malaysians? All the nationalities you mention are subject to the same laws as everybody else.

I don't think the Burmese guy sweeping my road has 800k in the bank, or a work permit for that matter.

[saengd]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't think there is anything remotely normal about the retirement visa system here specifically and I've researched almost all the countries in the world that offer that status so I know way more than the average person about that.

 

So you don't like the poll. Cool. Then back away. It's not for you. But I do want to ask can you supply links to the polls that YOU have started so I can learn from you how it's done. (Everyone's a critic.)

I wrote, "more normalised", not made the same as every other country!

 

Previously there was a regime here where virtually anyone could rock up to any point of entry and get pretty much whatever they wanted, as many times as they wanted it, many even lived here full time on tourist visa's doing incessant back to back border runs. Now today there's a semblance of normality about the entire business, people are asked, nay required, to adopt the visa that matches their circumstances. Somewhere in that transition process the scammers came into play, using bogus letters, lying to get embassy letters, borrowing money overnight to get a visa and employing every other possible scam they could think of, is it any wonder the rules and the process were tightened to squeeze out the bogus and unqualified applicant.

 

Now today, health insurance is the new must have requirement for particular classes of visa, is that entirely wrong in anyone's opinion? Sure the implementation was messy, sure it could have been done more appropriately but hey, none of us chose to live in Thailand because of its prowess at implementing new procedures and laws.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, saengd said:

I wrote, "more normalised", not made the same as every other country!

 

Previously there was a regime here where virtually anyone could rock up to any point of entry and get pretty much whatever they wanted, as many times as they wanted it, many even lived here full time on tourist visa's doing incessant back to back border runs. Now today there's a semblance of normality about the entire business, people are asked, nay required, to adopt the visa that matches their circumstances. Somewhere in that transition process the scammers came into play, using bogus letters, lying to get embassy letters, borrowing money overnight to get a visa and employing every other possible scam they could think of, is it any wonder the rules and the process were tightened to squeeze out the bogus and unqualified applicant.

 

Now today, health insurance is the new must have requirement for particular classes of visa, is that entirely wrong in anyone's opinion? Sure the implementation was messy, sure it could have been done more appropriately but hey, none of us chose to live in Thailand because of its prowess at implementing new procedures and laws.

So clearly YOU don't FEEL scapegoated. That's fine. There are no right or wrong answers about how people FEEL. 

 

Next … 

[cyril sneer]

it's actually worse to be a white male in my home country nowadays 

[from the home of CC]

25 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I suggest any such discussions should be like this:

- Do you think a country should decide which immigrants they allow?

- Do you think it's reasonable that a country demands health insurance from any foreigner?

 

My point is: Don't use the country's name. Just ask all these questions independent of the countries name.

And remind people that this should apply equally to all countries like i.e. Thailand, the UK, USA, etc.

 

Because to me it seems that lots of foreigners who live in Thailand think they should live just the way they want without any conditions. But the same people don't want foreigners back home. Or i.e. those foreigners back home should learn the language and integrate. But the foreigners in Thailand obviously don't have to learn Thai and they don't have to integrate...

 

We are all foreigners almost anywhere in this world...

true but self aware objective reasoning is at a premium for some reason these days..

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, cyril sneer said:

it's actually worse to be a white male in my home country nowadays 

I'll bite. Which country?

Edited November 25, 2019 by Jingthing

[nausea]

Not really, in fact I feel I have an unwarranted special status - they assume I'm rich, they assume I'm educated. And they make accommodations to my various foibles (what do you expect, he's a Farang). Of course, there are those almost neo-nazi nationalistic thais that look on any Farang as an incarnation of the devil. But then you get these guys in any country. On the plus side I do feel the need to like not let the side down, so my behavior here is probably better than it would be in my home country. I'm quite aware that as I'm judged so are all Farangs, given that your ordinary Thai's exposure is quite limited.

[from the home of CC]

1 minute ago, cyril sneer said:

it's actually worse to be a white male in my home country nowadays 

probably long deserved karma comin' knocking on the door... lol

[GeorgeCross]

well i'd say it's pretty obvious the sexpats/chang brigade and the perennial tourists aren't wanted, the tightening of the rules reflects that

 

i'd also say its fair the majority who don't feel scapegoated are just trucking on as usual

 

truck on ????

 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

sometimes Thai women show up at my door claiming their new born babies look like me. 

is that a good example?

Geez, just how desperate are these Thai women to be making such claims?

Fascinating that you look like a new-born baby. Please expand.

[Lacessit]

No, I feel privileged. When I routinely carry a month's wages for the average rural Thai in my pocket, why wouldn't I?

[Number 6]

Scapegoated for what?

 

I voted no.

 

Things far more tedious. My extension requirements not changed at all. I'm very unsupportive of last years of government.

 

Air pollution sucks. Quality of life is down. Inflation. Economy is mired. But I don't feel scapegoated?!

 

Don't really care single male sex tourists being moved on either.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Number 6

[lkv]

45 minutes ago, saengd said:

Visa regulations have been (more) normalised and put more in line with other countries than they were previously,

TM30

[CGW]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

not an English native speaking but in my humble opinion, the word persecuted fits better

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/persecuted

Until I read the definition of "scapegoated" I would have agreed with you, its not a word that is widely used, but "one that is the object of irrational hostility" seems to fit the bill rather well as it is "irrational how we are singled out, given the many nationalities that are not irrationally picked upon, $$$$$$   ?

[Jingthing]

So far the results show that ROUGHLY about half the respondents FEEL strongly or moderately scapegoated and the other half doesn't FEEL scapegoated at all. That sounds about what I would have predicted. 

[lkv]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So far the results show that ROUGHLY about half the respondents FEEL strongly or moderately scapegoated and the other half doesn't FEEL scapegoated at all. That sounds about what I would have predicted. 

And i predict a large majority of the respondents choosing option C live in a rural environment, where they feel there is less scapegoating happening.

 

Having lived in downtown Bangkok, where they stop and search relentlessly, and I could see live operations of "Bad guys in, good guys out" / X Ray foreigner in the past, I chose A.

Edited November 25, 2019 by lkv

[Don Mega]

no, not once in my 13 years here to date.

[Liverpudlian]

I await the day that i pay an entrance fee that equals that of a Thai persons entrance fee to a zoo / historicle venue or elephant show after 15 years here i STILL find it hard to swallow and thats just 1 beef off the old block ... i could add with a fistfull but cant be arsed these days.

[scorecard]

jingthing;  what do you mean by the very loose term 'scapegoated'?

 

"....Without getting into the specifics of Thai politics (personally I stopped following that years ago) there have been an unusual number of visa changes etc. in the last year or so and many foreigners feel put out by that sometimes quite literally. "

 

So somehow 'scapegoated means visa changes? really?

[Roy Baht]

There probably should be a choice between MODERATE and NOT AT ALL but I know TV doesn't do nuance. All societies scapegoat outsiders to some degree but as a non-Thai living in Thailand I can't say I feel "scapegoated" (blamed for crimes I didn't commit?) on a personal level at all. I do see news reporting that tends to blame foreigners for local problems more than Thais. Most Western countries I know do the same thing. But I see Thais blaming other Thais for things as much as I see them blaming foreigners. Frankly, I rarely see Thai people accept blame or responsibility for anything. They just use whoever happens to be on hand--usually the people least able to defend themselves. In any case, the idea that white foreigners (of any economic bracket) suffer more than poor Thais is ludicrous.

[Pattaya46]

I don't really understand the question in this forum context ('scapegoated'??), so I voted C (3rd choice) and see that the majority of voters did same choice.

Looks like a worthless poll...

[Dumbastheycome]

To be honest I do not understand the use of the  description "scapegoat". I have never been personally attributed  blame  for any  negative event that  was  not in any way of my doing  or even associated  with.

Is it that I should accept blame for the negatives that  rightly  belong  to other individuals ?

If the intent of  the meaning  is that as an individual belonging to the  collective  of  non Thai who feels that I as an individual of that  collective  feel or consider  I am  subject to being considered a scapegoat then I would  have to concede that it is possible due to generic non  discretionary bureaucratic reaction to the minority who bring cause to such reaction.

I present as a minority Caucasian in a predominantly  Asian locale.

Sadly I would say that either as an individual or one of a collective  the attitudes  extended  to myself are  little different to those generally extended to Asians or other ethnicities in a predominantly Caucasian locale.

Is  that attributable  to scapegoating, racism,  or xenophobic defensiveness?

A  human condition in toto.

 

 

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, tifino said:

yes but what percentage of exPats are surrounded by the 'educated' ones??

Judging by the quality of posts on this forum I'd hazard a guess at many, relatively speaking.

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Why, none of the migrants from the surrounding countries have to?

And they're the ones running up hospital bills, and mass illegally working, not us white folk.

 

How come I need an expensive (yet worthless) Thai health insurance policy, and the Burmese road sweeper doesn't?

A Thai builder friend of my gf just hung himself because he was undercut by the illegal Burmese builders working for 100bht/day.

 

That's hardly a nation that's putting it's citizens first.

What Thai workers are us white chaps competing with for work? 

Where is the evidence to support your assertion they are working illegally. There is an active guest worker system in place.

Why do you need an expensive but worthless insurance policy? If I recall your many posts correctly you are not on an OA visa.

Edited November 25, 2019 by emptypockets

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

And i predict a large majority of the respondents choosing option C live in a rural environment, where they feel there is less scapegoating happening.

 

Having lived in downtown Bangkok, where they stop and search relentlessly, and I could see live operations of "Bad guys in, good guys out" / X Ray foreigner in the past, I chose A.

And I predict a large majority don't live in Thailand. I regularly spend a lot of time in downtown Bangkok, if you can call lower Sukhumvit downtown, never been stopped and searched. Not ever. Not once. Never.

[seasia]

3 hours ago, saengd said:

A stupid and pointless survey, it's like saying it rained in the city but not at my home, do I feel discriminated against!

 

Visa regulations have been (more) normalised and put more in line with other countries than they were previously, what does it matter how anyone feels it's the way it is and we have our choices. And what does it matter that some ASEAN members are being treated differently, unless you happen to be a national of one of the Asean countries. 

It is a poll rather than a survey.

It is in pub section.

 

I do not think it is stupid.

There is no obligation to take part.

Can simply ignore the thread.

 

It is interesting to see people s views and how they feel.