Thai students well below global average in reading, science and maths: study

[RobbyXNorway]

Education or indoctrination? For a society to move forward education must develop critical thinking in the population.

[b2bme]

18 hours ago, HeyHeyHey said:

China cheated their way to 1st place as they always do

 

I certainly don't see the intelligence when I happen to accidentally book a 4* or 5* hotel frequented by Chinese

I agree with you. I worked for a Chinese company before and everything was fake including their so called intelligence. All their certificates showed highly educated but they were far from it. 

[ChipButty]

2 minutes ago, b2bme said:

I agree with you. I worked for a Chinese company before and everything was fake including their so called intelligence. All their certificates showed highly educated but they were far from it. 

I might agree with you we have been dealing with quiet a lot of Chinese over the last couple of years Ive come to the conclusion some of them are thick

[TKDfella]

I am not going to comment on the Thai governments agenda...I'll leave that to others...but as I've said on similar threads, Thailand has to make a decision between culture and the real world. I've had considerable experience with Thai schools (locally that is) and the obvious points have been the amount of time given to Thai dance and cultural aspects compared to other topics. I am in no way suggesting that Thailand should stop teaching these (same applies to other countries) but these topics should be the extra curricular activities rather than part of the main teaching time. Too often I've seen, and still do, students out in the grounds practising Thai dance and related activities at 10 a.m. and lasting up until midday. Another missed opportunity is in sports. As is well known, Thai children love games, football, basket ball etc. and these are ideal for teaching practical maths and physics as well anatomical subjects. However, it's not only the curriculum that is a problem. Squeeze 35-40 children in a classroom that is baking in the heat is hardly conducive to hourly concentration. 

[ben2talk]

1 hour ago, legend49 said:

The Filipino teachers wages are cheap as chips.

It's not much of a factor, however. When the kids have a test, if any are vulnerable to failure (perhaps not able to read well enough, or work well when not copying) the teachers (Thai lead the way, but anyone with sense will use the method to survive in their profession) will send a full copy of the test questions home so the answers can be memorised.

 

Failure is ALWAYS the fault of the teacher... no matter how brazen the students are.

[Foghorn]

The schools are bad and teachers useless but the parents are as much the problem . You can’t expect teachers to teach alone ,I teach my kids as well, teachers only have so much time and if you can’t be bothered to teach your children and make sure THEY do their homework, what do you expect 

[cyril sneer]

All the schools I’ve taught at have had a World Class Standard sign within the building so find this baffling 

[car720]

18 hours ago, HeyHeyHey said:

China cheated their way to 1st place as they always do

 

I certainly don't see the intelligence when I happen to accidentally book a 4* or 5* hotel frequented by Chinese

I have been associated with some to the top medical people in the world.  Usually Chinese and I can assure you that they didn't cheat their way into the position.  Comparing any nationality on holidays is like saying that every Brit is a Mr. Bean or that every Aussie is a Crocodile Dundee or that every Indian is the Mahatma.

[ben2talk]

2 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

I am not going to comment on the Thai governments agenda...I'll leave that to others...but as I've said on similar threads, Thailand has to make a decision between culture and the real world. I've had considerable experience with Thai schools (locally that is) and the obvious points have been the amount of time given to Thai dance and cultural aspects compared to other topics. I am in no way suggesting that Thailand should stop teaching these (same applies to other countries) but these topics should be the extra curricular activities rather than part of the main teaching time. Too often I've seen, and still do, students out in the grounds practising Thai dance and related activities at 10 a.m. and lasting up until midday. Another missed opportunity is in sports. As is well known, Thai children love games, football, basket ball etc. and these are ideal for teaching practical maths and physics as well anatomical subjects. However, it's not only the curriculum that is a problem. Squeeze 35-40 children in a classroom that is baking in the heat is hardly conducive to hourly concentration.

Not only heat... I was working a K3 bilingual program when Chicken Flu came up in the news and the school decided on an open window/closed aircon rule up to midday.

 

Apart from the inevitable heat (students sweating and dripping on their books) I'd say the largest problem was the open window which brings noise and distraction.

 

I myself failed miserably in history, but remember vividly the sight of the staff with lawnmowers cutting grass every Wednesday (the day of my afternoon History class). When I was teaching, I generally entered the rooms, drew curtains/closed windows and turned on aircon, then set up the room for intense gaming... present/practice and play games of some kind. Opening curtains/windows was devastating and that's the year I quit teaching schools - culture rules over any consideration of education. "It was fine 50 years ago, so it's good enough now".

[ben2talk]

6 minutes ago, Foghorn said:

The schools are bad and teachers useless but the parents are as much the problem . You can’t expect teachers to teach alone ,I teach my kids as well, teachers only have so much time and if you can’t be bothered to teach your children and make sure THEY do their homework, what do you expect

Once I was fired over one very 'successful' student who failed my test with 20% and I refused to change it.

He never answered any question until his partner had finished getting a correct answer and check it with the other students - then he would copy... 

 

I sat him on his own and prevented him communicating with his peers - he had no way left of succeeding. This is very un-Thai - where the farmers will tell you that there's no such thing as 'cheating', only 'helping'.

[spidermike007]

A friend of mine teaches ESL to Chinese students online. He says the seriousness, that both the students, and the parents bring to the table is astonishing. They really care and they really make an effort. There is a pathetic apathy towards education here, that casts a grey pall over the entire nation. It starts at the top, where you have an administration, that despite the constant proclamations to the contrary, is doing little to nothing to improve a completely broken educational system. Then it continues with an incredibly mediocre teaching staff, that often does not even know the material in their own class studies, especially when it comes to english classes. Add in math, science and history, and you have the perfect storm. Then you have face. When you have an entire nation that is discouraged from asking questions, and going a step further and challenging the teachers on their false premises, and inaccurate materials, and you have system that not only fails to educate, but stifles curiosity within the youth. 

 

Thailand is headed down a very dark path, if they do not step up, man up, and make some big improvements. I do believe the youth are the only hope this nation has to progress. It is very obvious we are not going to see progress from their apathetic, conventional and very conservative parents. So, give the youth a chance. 

 

Of course, there could be one answer as to why all of this is happening. And that is the administration does not want the youth to succeed. Certainly not the masses, that attend public schools. And if that is the case, the extreme myopia that causes them to protect the elite at all costs, and prevent an emerging class with talent, brains, and knowledge of the world, would reveal a diabolical scheme that is so dark, and so hopeless, that it is difficult to ponder.

Edited December 6, 2019 by spidermike007

[JackDenz]

18 hours ago, shadowofacloud said:

 

Exactly. An educated society is definitely not what the powers that be want. Educated people tend to ask difficult questions about democracy, freedom of speech, corruption, pollution etc. Ignoramus masses will be easily satisfied by occassional handouts and cheap propaganda.

Shadowofacloud, You nailed it! Same problem in Indonesia and Malaysia. Perpetuate ignorance and thereby maintain control. Sadly it will not change.

[heybuz]

12 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

You can read all about China questionable PISA scores here. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/12/04/china-is-no-pisa-heres-why-its-test-scores-are-hard-believe/

 

Did you know that only a small number of China provinces participate? And, did you genuinely not know that China is infamous for all manner of academic cheating scandals? If so, you must be one of a very tiny number of people who don't know. 

 

Singapore is full of Chinese, yes. Chinese that are thriving in large part due to the excellent influence left on that country by England. 

Same as Hong Kong my Chinese Hong Kong mate still regards himself as British

[rocketdave]

Went with friends to their teenage daughter's school open night, the English teacher disappeared, she couldn't speak English!

[manta]

So this is why Thailand is not academically recognise in other countries.

[HHTel]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

Regionally, only Indonesia and the Philippines performed worse than Thailand. 

 

19 hours ago, webfact said:

No further information was released regarding where the new foreign teachers would be recruited from, but Thai officials indicated they plan to contact Phillippine Embassy in Bangkok to help with teacher recruitment.

Great ideas from a stupid government!

[RichardColeman]

You know your in trouble when you're lower on any chart than Peru !

[Cereal]

I've been teaching for 15 years including a 6 year journey in Korea and 6 months in China the rest in Laos. 

 

Filipinos are not native English speakers. I have worked with dozens and known many more. I have yet to meet one that could even remotely be considered a native level English speaker/reader/writer. 

 

I'd also love to see a breakdown of Thais by sex: male and female students. I bet the males are seriously skewing the results downwards.

[cnx101]

I can’t see  Vietnam on that list but I’m sure they’re very high, as they are intelligent always wanting to learn, I’ve worked in a Thai school years ago, like working in a monkey house, something I’d never want to experience again.

[howbri]

19 hours ago, HeyHeyHey said:

China cheated their way to 1st place as they always do

 

I certainly don't see the intelligence when I happen to accidentally book a 4* or 5* hotel frequented by Chinese

I taught English in China. The students have an unrivaled thirst for English unlike here in Thailand. Better English means more $$$$.

[Rod the Sod]

A number of years ago I delivered a very serious training programme to the salespeople and Academy Trainers of a major Thai company that partnered with another major Thai company (all names excluded). I trained their trainers for 3 weeks solid and they became basically competent at delivering the material but at best were average. On the final day of my involvement we planned to train the salespeople in a live environment. The Trainers asked me if they could "localise" the training course so that it would be more acceptable to Thai people. I agreed on the basis that the core messages and skill sets remained unchanged. I saw no harm in making it more acceptable to the delegates in the hope that this would promote learning.

 

The last day arrived and it was to be delivered in Thai by the Trainers to the salespeople. I sat at the back to observe. Suddenly flashing lights and a disco started up. Throughout, role-plays were changed to fun competitions with silly prizes. Loud booing noises came through the audio system if someone made a mistake and fake applause for those that did well. The children (average age perhaps 28) so enjoyed themselves declaring it was the best course they had ever attended. To this day I bet not one of them learnt and retained any new knowledge, but boy, had they enjoyed themselves. They went hope holding arms full of cuddly toys.

 

A country of children, taught by children, all in a childish way.

[Tops]

If you translate the average to 100 on each subject. 

The result of Thailand is 84.49. 

Almost similar to the IQ of the average Thai.

[SteveK]

My wife's two sons don't seem to learn anything whatsoever at school. Absolutely zero knowledge of maths, science, geography, languages etc.

[phkauf]

Thailand will be stuck in the Middle Income Trap because of this. Because of the poor education and lack of skills, Thailand will never be able to move up the value chain in production or in the service industry. Sophisticated manufacturers will locate factories where they can get a labor force capable of working at that higher level. Service companies are locating in places like the Philippines and India where they have an easier time hiring intelligent English speaking staff - these are very well paying jobs for these countries.

Places like Vietnam are rapidly eclipsing Thailand in many ways and will likely overtake Thailand as a manufacturing hub once their infrastructure improves. Oh, and the Vietnamese work ethic is miles ahead of the Thais.

With the turmoil in Hong Kong, Thailand would be a natural replacement for many companies looking for an alternative (much cheaper than Singapore) except that the workforce in Thailand is far below standards required for those type jobs in the finance and multinational corporations. Yet another missed opportunity.

Thailand is stuck in neutral while the rest of the world is moving ahead. They have no one to blame but those in power (at all levels).

[Tops]

If you translate the average scores to 100, Thailand's overall score is 84.49 !!!

Comes close to the IQ of the average Thai.

[sniggie]

19 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

How could they perform better in the classroom if they have way too many activities outside of the school?

 

 Too many Thai teachers give them homework because they're not able to teach it in class, knowing that most of them will copy if from a classmate.

 

 And if some Thai teachers believe that copying something off the board into their notebooks has anything to do with learning, they're so damn wrong.

 

 

You can't blame the students, it's the system that suc_s.  

I tell my wife not to do my 7 year old's homework for him. I know she finds it easier than getting him to do it. 

[Caine]

Everything is fine and dandy, as they’re top of the class at thieving, scamming and lying. 

[Isaan sailor]

I'd like to see them test some of the people who run this government.  Probably achieve similar results...

[Dogmatix]

There is a book written by an Englishman hired by the Department of Education, as it was then, in the early 1900s. He describes the work of the department under the feudal system which involved spending the bulk of the budget on Western style schools and study abroad for the children of the nobility, while the education of the rural masses was left to the Buddhist clergy in basic temple schools financed by the peasants’ own donations. The reasoning, according to the author was that a limited budget was best used to educate future administrators to international levels so that they would be able to guide and improve the country for everyone, while the peasants didn’t need better education to grow rice. Education was provided free to the nobility but Chinese merchants were able to buy places for their kids with bribes. Even though the department objective was only to educate the nobility, it still suffered from bifurcation of funds due to corruption, according to the English gentleman.

 

Fast forward 120 years and the influence of the feudal system in education is still visible. The children of the elite and Chinese merchants go to fancy schools in Bangkok that accept tea money and outright bribes to admit them, no matter how stupid or lazy they might be. The education budget has grown hugely but most of that is wasted on a bloated bureaucracy in Bangkok or outright stolen, so that by the time it reaches the children of the peasantry there is only enough left for a bare bones education that is little better than the education farmers financed the clergy to provide their kids 120 years ago.

 

it is all designed to maintain the status quo as well as a fat budget to be scalped by corrupt officials. It works in parallel with the Agricultural Ministry’s policy to keep farmers poor and unhealthy by providing them with nil assistance to improve agricultural yields and profits and forcing them to use dangerous chemicals that enrich petrochemicals companies that pay off politicians and government officials. The last Thai innovation in rice production was jasmine rice in 1959. Since then they have been sitting back watching other countries overtake them until their agricultural production is no longer competitive.

 

The question how sustainable is all this. Keeping the peasantry ignorant and poor has been a very successful strategy for maintaining the status quo but it comes at the expense of global competitiveness and long term sustainable economic growth rate which is now needed in the age of social media to provide welfare to the proletariat to keep them happy and malleable.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Dogmatix

[KhunFred]

Buy fewer submarines and spend the money on education. Not much interest in invading Thailand by surrounding countries.