Anger erupts at U.N. climate summit as major economies resist bold action

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

The only people who think that anyone is "working towards destruction of the planet" are you and Greta Thunberg. And maybe a couple of witless nimrods from Extinction Rebellion.

 

Idiotic, it is.

All who are willing to put short term economic interests aside disagree with you.

[Tippaporn]

53 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

It depends on whether you would regard deliberately equating climate skeptics to Holocaust deniers, as bullying and reviling. Perhaps you think that is an acceptable, even useful agit-prop tactic.

 

Because that has been the favorite approach of the climate zealots going back many years.

 

And if words don't work ..... 

 

 

Sorry, we're only allowed a single reaction to posts.  Therefore, I have to quote you to give you an infinite amount 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Of course not, and there lies my main disagreement with this movement.

They put their focus on the highly debatable man-made global warming, while it should be obvious that we should fight the pollution, which is true and undeniable, and much easier to tackle.

The real focus isn't on global warming- it's social justice, whatever that is, and redistribution of wealth. They don't care about pollution much, if at all. If they actually cared about the future of humanity on the planet they'd be advocating population reduction, which they ignore.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

All who are willing to put short term economic interests aside disagree with you.

Well, don't include all the phone clutching placard waving school children. If they had to actually give up their phones, computers, car travel, air holidays in exotic destinations, cheap clothes made by exploited labour in poor countries, and get a real job when they leave school they'd desert the movement en mass, IMO. They go along with it because they get a day off school to  form a mob and be rude to their elders, and it's trendy, IMO. They're kids, they don't know anything in real life, as that's down to experience, not talking about stuff in class. 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

How do you explain to them about the pollutants in the air, rising temperature, rising sea level etc. 

What sea level rise? It's rising about 2 mm a year in NZ- not enough to notice in a lifetime.

Perhaps sea level rises higher in countries where you go.

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What sea level rise? It's rising about 2 mm a year in NZ- not enough to notice in a lifetime.

Perhaps sea level rises higher in countries where you go.

Perhaps your lifetime but think of your grandchildren. By then global warning will be irreversible damaging to them. 
 

Rising sea level is a big concern for Thailand. That’s also not your concern. Typical Trumpist’s ideology. Make America great and who cares about others. 

[RickBradford]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Typical Trumpist’s ideology.

I propose an annex to Godwin's Law.

 

"If you have no substantive arguments to make, drag in 'Trump' to the discussion."

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Perhaps your lifetime but think of your grandchildren. By then global warning will be irreversible damaging to them. 
 

Rising sea level is a big concern for Thailand. That’s also not your concern. Typical Trumpist’s ideology. Make America great and who cares about others. 

Trump's job is to look after America, not the rest of the world. So far he's doing a good job.

[mauGR1]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The real focus isn't on global warming- it's social justice, whatever that is, and redistribution of wealth. They don't care about pollution much, if at all. If they actually cared about the future of humanity on the planet they'd be advocating population reduction, which they ignore.

That's your opinion, not necessarily an absolute truth.

We have discussed that months ago, but again, what is your plan about population reduction ? A couple of wars ? Forced sterilisation with a pinch of eugenetics?

Social justice, as far as i'm concerned, is a noble goal, i don't see anything wrong with it.

Also, for me it's not "Us vs Them" as i try to see all humans as equal.

[rabas]

11 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Perhaps your lifetime but think of your grandchildren. By then global warning will be irreversible damaging to them. 
 

Rising sea level is a big concern for Thailand. That’s also not your concern. Typical Trumpist’s ideology. Make America great and who cares about others. 

If that were the case, you'd think they would stop pumping all the water out of the ground to stop the land from sinking at 0.02 meters/year.

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by rabas

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Trump's job is to look after America, not the rest of the world. So far he's doing a good job.

Even to the extent of other world leaders losing respect and laughing at him? Myopic  view that USA can survived without other allies and trading partners. 

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Even to the extent of other world leaders losing respect and laughing at him? Myopic  view that USA can survived without other allies and trading partners. 

While I agree with you, I don't think that is the topic here.

[RickBradford]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Also, for me it's not "Us vs Them" as i try to see all humans as equal.

Well, that's completely opposed to what the social justice warriors believe. It's all about "Us vs Them" for SJWs, which is why they never stop talking about race, gender and all the other identities they can muster.

 

They've even managed to re-introduce racial segregation on some US university campuses, in the name of social justice. They've managed to completely overturn the credo and legacy of Martin Luther King, in 50 years.

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Well, that's completely opposed to what the social justice warriors believe. It's all about "Us vs Them" for SJWs, which is why they never stop talking about race, gender and all the other identities they can muster.

 

They've even managed to re-introduce racial segregation on some US university campuses, in the name of social justice. They've managed to completely overturn the credo and legacy of Martin Luther King, in 50 years.

And you have the nerve to call my statement idiotic. Interpreting the beliefs of others from your own point of view inevitably means distortion.

Edited December 16, 2019 by stevenl

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Well, that's completely opposed to what the social justice warriors believe. It's all about "Us vs Them" for SJWs, which is why they never stop talking about race, gender and all the other identities they can muster.

 

They've even managed to re-introduce racial segregation on some US university campuses, in the name of social justice. They've managed to completely overturn the credo and legacy of Martin Luther King, in 50 years.

I agree, actually my point was that the theory of man-made global warming is a "false target", aimed at confusing and dividing the masses.

Intolerance goes both ways, and can be a dangerous weapon in the hands of unscrupulous rulers.

Let's try to discuss issues without being intolerant of other people's opinions.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, RickBradford said:

It depends on whether you would regard deliberately equating climate skeptics to Holocaust deniers, as bullying and reviling. Perhaps you think that is an acceptable, even useful agit-prop tactic.

 

Because that has been the favorite approach of the climate zealots going back many years.

 

And if words don't work ..... 

 

 

I don’t agree with those words used (and links to full articles they are from please) but I regard them as hyperbole not bullying. 

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, rabas said:

If that were the case, you'd think they would stop pumping all the water out of the ground to stop the land from sinking at 0.02 meters/year.

 

Sea level in the Gulf of Thailand is rising by 4 mm per year which is above global standard due to global warming. Pumping water out of the ground is an issue not the problem. 

[Bluespunk]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The botanist, 80 this week, says the end of his TV career was caused by his views on climate change. Paul Cahalan meets David Bellamy

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/david-bellamy-i-was-shunned-they-didnt-want-to-hear-8449307.html

 

Need more?

He wasn’t sacked just not offered more work. I would like a lot more, particularly the other sides explanation why he was not offered work. 

[brokenbone]

27 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Sea level in the Gulf of Thailand is rising by 4 mm per year which is above global standard due to global warming. Pumping water out of the ground is an issue not the problem. 

no, it isnt. if and when my data is restored on tvf ill show you the source of your disinformation

[Rimmer]

Troll post removed

[Eric Loh]

12 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

no, it isnt. if and when my data is restored on tvf ill show you the source of your disinformation

https://www.ft.com/content/bed1cb22-c28d-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

[canuckamuck]

2 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

An example of such posturing quoted from a UK newspaper,  the Independent:

"Diplomats managed to agree on some issues in the final sleep-deprived 48 hours, including an updated gender action plan that recognises the impact of climate change on human rights, historic and current gender inequalities and the importance of intersectionality."

They have an excellent point when it comes to gender. When I was young there were only two genders, but now, because of climate change, there is a least 100 and there is no end in sight.

[brokenbone]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

https://www.ft.com/content/bed1cb22-c28d-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

data restored

 

[stuandjulie]

22 hours ago, brokenbone said:

yo, einstein, dinosaurs hit an asteroid, the analogy isnt climate change.

the analogy is a fat fusion bomb.

other phenomena that has been speculated as wiping out species

unrelated to atmosphere is gamma radiation

Err Asteroid hits Earth and kicks up huge masses of dust that doesn't clear for donkeys years, no sunlight, no growth, I think you will find that changed the climate Einstein.

[tlandtday]

On 12/15/2019 at 7:32 AM, TopDeadSenter said:

This climate alarmism has taken a very worrying turn. When the world's foremost and most vocal climate activist wants to start putting people "against the wall", and says that to cheering crowds, you know the movement needs banning. Immediately.

 There is no place for double standards. If right leaning groups said they wanted to put liberal leaders "against the wall" they would all be arrested, banned from all social media etc etc. Just waiting for clarity when Greta and her handlers will be arrested for hate crimes? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7789463/Greta-Thunberg-arrives-Turin-Italy-star-turn-huge-climate-change-demonstration.html

Wall Street is very hungry for the carbon trading scam which can generate billions or tirllions....

[chainarong]

Why should the biggies stuff their economy and people employed up, putting thousands out of work because coal mines are now all shut down in a knee jerk reaction that isn't going to solve anything except introducing massive anti social behavior, you need to change to renewable energy gradually and retain a power base load, if there's remedial action to be taken it should be taken at a speed that each country can afford, the only thing that can be noted is the air pollution covering most of China wasn't put there by panda bears.

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, chainarong said:

Why should the biggies stuff their economy and people employed up, putting thousands out of work because coal mines are now all shut down in a knee jerk reaction that isn't going to solve anything except introducing massive anti social behavior, you need to change to renewable energy gradually and retain a power base load, if there's remedial action to be taken it should be taken at a speed that each country can afford, the only thing that can be noted is the air pollution covering most of China wasn't put there by panda bears.

i second this, and it is the course currently taken,

i.e western countries employing some experimental alternatives

all the while trying to figure out how to cram out any efficiency out of

it to make it commercially viable.

rest of the world shouldnt bother until if and when it becomes competitive,

save for extremely remote areas that the grid dont reach

and is too uneconomical to build

[RickBradford]

1 hour ago, chainarong said:

Why should the biggies stuff their economy and people employed up, putting thousands out of work because coal mines are now all shut down in a knee jerk reaction that isn't going to solve anything except introducing massive anti social behavior,

Because to do so is a positive step towards dismantling racist and patriarchal systems of oppression, which is what the climate movement is about.

 

I know, because Greta said so, and she's so clever.

 

"That action must be powerful and wide-ranging. After all, the climate crisis is not just about the environment. It is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all."

 

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/climate-strikes-un-conference-madrid-by-greta-thunberg-et-al-2019-11

 

Greta is in lockstep on this with Mary Robinson, former former UN high commissioner for human rights.

 

“Human rights and gender equity are at the heart of what we are talking about on the climate,” said Robinson, "Gender and social justice have an enormous impact on what people face from climate [breakdown]. If we don’t have these issues included we are going to make enormous mistakes.”

 

 

[marqus12]

Come on Chinese, hurry up with the construction of this coffin.

We have wooden stakes in Central Europe with which YOU can finish off

these EU hyenas and this impoverished soybean and corn producer

on the other side of the Atlantic.

 

????

Edited December 17, 2019 by marqus12

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/16/2019 at 3:05 PM, mauGR1 said:

That's your opinion, not necessarily an absolute truth.

We have discussed that months ago, but again, what is your plan about population reduction ? A couple of wars ? Forced sterilisation with a pinch of eugenetics?

Social justice, as far as i'm concerned, is a noble goal, i don't see anything wrong with it.

Also, for me it's not "Us vs Them" as i try to see all humans as equal.

IMO it's not a choice. If we don't voluntarily reduce our population, wars, revolution and disease will do it for us.

I'm not going to suggest anything as it's not up to me to do it. I didn't have children. The people that will suffer the consequences of overpopulation will be those born now and in the future. The next wars will probably be over water- look at what is happening on the Nile.

Ebola is also potentially going to wipe out millions.