Pakistan court hands down death sentence to scholar accused of blasphemy

[Scot123]

19 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Absolute rubbish. I live in malaysia and go drinking quite often with muslims. 

 

You are not marked for death by anyone. 

 

Jeez some people.

There are vast differences in Asian Muslims who are not real Muslims as a whole in terms of the Koran. However my statement stands as written in the Koran (you should try reading it) . A little aside Muslims are allowed to drink, eat pork etc if it is to fool the infidels. Praying or going to the mosque on a Friday technically according to the Koran doesn't make you Muslim following the Koran to the letter does. The scary part of the Koran is all your bad behaviour is forgiven if you commit Jihad. Yes I have Muslim friends but they are not real Muslims as I'm not a real Catholic/Protestant. Seriously read the Koran and the 3 hadieths and it all makes sense. Take palatine as a living example. 

[Opl]

1 hour ago, Scot123 said:

It is sad to say your statement is false. To be a Muslim you must follow the Koran to the letter and if you do not the you are marked for death by all practicing Muslims. You should and should all our politicians be made to study history. Dark ages caused by Muslim piracy and jihad with the burning of all the ancient libraries along their path. The mass murder of over 180 million should be remembered which brings me to my point Spain who had major problems with jihad wars kidnapping/slaving until King Philip of Spain decreed no Muslim practice on Spanish soil. Problem solved and my point out of hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Spain only 30,000 remained. 

Yes this can happen 

Asad Shah, Pakistani and Muslim, 40, ran a grocery store in Glasgow. He belonged to the Ahmadi minority, which is considered to be a heretical sect and deviant from Islam.The community endorses  separation of the mosque and state. In Pakistan, Ahmadis are regularly persecuted by pure Muslims. A few days before Easter, he posted a message to his customers on his Facebook page on March 24, 2016: “Good Friday [Holy] and happy Easter, especially to my beloved Christian country.”
This message signed his death warrant. Hours after writing, he was stabbed, leaving his store, by Tanveer Ahmed, a 32-year-old Muslim man who lived in England, in Bradford, Yorshire.

"We need to make sure that we don't import the politics of hatred, of sectarianism from Pakistan into our communities and to our streets" 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Opl

[anterian]

5 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

The latest view - see historian Tom Holland for example - is that there may have been someone but almost everything we "know" is almost certainly made up well after the event. Take the name "Mohammed" for example. It's only mentioned 4 times in the Koran and each time it's a title. It means "the Blessed One" and refers to Jesus. Islam is an outcrop of the Christian Nestorian heresy which was anti-Trinitarian and believed that Jesus was a prophet not God. The Nestorian slogan was "There is only one God, not three". This evolved into "There is one God and the Blessed One is his prophet". The Koran is a collection of writings that probably originated as a set of devotional hymns and meditations developed in the Nestorian church and written down in Aramaic.  It certainly wasn't originally written in Arabia, nor in Arabic. That came later, as a translation. When Islam became the established religion of the Arabs, about 50+ years later, a conscious decision was made to locate the historical events somewhere so obscure that no one would bother to challenge their historicity. None of the early mosques faced Mecca. That came later, when Mecca was established as the official "home" of Islam

Nice to see that some people do some research, and of course the Quran and the Hadiths were also cobbled together long after the supposed death of Mohammed.

[zyphodb]

8 hours ago, Sujo said:

Mohammed was a real person.

And your point is???

 A bunch of uneducated, small minded Barbarians...

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

And your point is???

 A bunch of uneducated, small minded Barbarians...

The point is correcting incorrect information.

[tifino]

Hope the prof' didn't go and 'Share' that Islamic Paratrooper joke? 

 

 

 

It doesn't go down too well

[Sujo]

13 hours ago, Scot123 said:

There are vast differences in Asian Muslims who are not real Muslims as a whole in terms of the Koran. However my statement stands as written in the Koran (you should try reading it) . A little aside Muslims are allowed to drink, eat pork etc if it is to fool the infidels. Praying or going to the mosque on a Friday technically according to the Koran doesn't make you Muslim following the Koran to the letter does. The scary part of the Koran is all your bad behaviour is forgiven if you commit Jihad. Yes I have Muslim friends but they are not real Muslims as I'm not a real Catholic/Protestant. Seriously read the Koran and the 3 hadieths and it all makes sense. Take palatine as a living example. 

What you are is ill informed. You dont read the koran, you are taught it. Same as you dont just read the bible, otherwise you would be just as extreme.

 

I have lived with my muslim gf for 4 years. Maybe all her and my friends are just trying to fool me by drinking etc, maybe a well known prince here things im so important he drinks with me to fool me. Im so happy im considered so important.

 

btw, malaysian and indonesian muslims do not consider arabic muslims to be real muslims. There are many different muslim faiths, like there are many christian faiths. 

 

So no, they arent all out to get us, they are too busy getting on with their own life and really dont care.

[simple1]

22 hours ago, Sujo said:

What you are is ill informed. You dont read the koran, you are taught it. Same as you dont just read the bible, otherwise you would be just as extreme.

 

I have lived with my muslim gf for 4 years. Maybe all her and my friends are just trying to fool me by drinking etc, maybe a well known prince here things im so important he drinks with me to fool me. Im so happy im considered so important.

 

btw, malaysian and indonesian muslims do not consider arabic muslims to be real muslims. There are many different muslim faiths, like there are many christian faiths. 

 

So no, they arent all out to get us, they are too busy getting on with their own life and really dont care.

So many people base their criticism of Muslims based on those who practice Islamist Salafi-Jihadists extremism. A quote from Mohamed "Be aware of extremism in religion, for it was extremism that destroyed those who went before you".

 

An interesting read is The House of Islam by Ed Husain

[Chazar]

oh  dear they dont  like  being told their fantasy friend really is a total  fantasy.....no  problem we'll  just  kill  you, that ever  loving peaceful make  believe god  of theirs

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Chazar said:

oh  dear they dont  like  being told their fantasy friend really is a total  fantasy.....no  problem we'll  just  kill  you, that ever  loving peaceful make  believe god  of theirs

Sadly blasphemy charges are most often based upon personal enmity. Pakistani courts are notorious for corruption and sentencing outcomes based upon death threats. From the OP...

 

His lawyers say he was framed by students from an extremist Islamist party for his liberal and secular views and this month a U.S. religious freedom commission placed Hafeez on its list of global victims.

[Orton Rd]

On 12/22/2019 at 11:57 AM, Baerboxer said:

 

Not all Muslims, to be fair. Only in the backward lawless ones where religious zealots hold sway.

To 95% of Muslims it is and they believe in the backward lawlessness of Islam which it extreme to it's core. Mohammad was not joking when he states in the Hasdith of Bukari that he was made victorious by terror.

[Orton Rd]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Sadly blasphemy charges are most often based upon personal enmity. Pakistani courts are notorious for corruption and sentencing outcomes based upon death threats. From the OP...

 

His lawyers say he was framed by students from an extremist Islamist party for his liberal and secular views and this month a U.S. religious freedom commission placed Hafeez on its list of global victims.

No, they are based on sharia law which allows it, without that there would be no charges to start with

[Orton Rd]

8 hours ago, simple1 said:

So many people base their criticism of Muslims based on those who practice Islamist Salafi-Jihadists extremism. A quote from Mohamed "Be aware of extremism in religion, for it was extremism that destroyed those who went before you".

 

An interesting read is The House of Islam by Ed Husain

No they don't they base it on the evidence in the Quran and most importantly the life of Mohammad, which was bad, very bad. You are quoting one of his earlier made up messages, he later went from that and let there be no compulsion in religion to kill them all (unbelievers and trouble makers) where ever you find them. He was a self confessed terrorist who over came the Meccans with lies of a truce, then viscous violence to imposed his extreme religion, which before he got the upper hand he warned about. When he became victorious by war all other religions were marginalized, it was convert or die, or at best become a second class person paying a tax for being so. Later the caliphs made Jews wear the yellow star.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Orton Rd

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

<SNIP>Later the caliphs made Jews wear the yellow star.

Responding to fact as opposed to opinion. yes for some periods in history as was also enforced by the Catholic Church, 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge

 

As you would know Muslims provided shelter for Jews from Christian persecution for hundreds of years in the past as did some Christian communities. However, none of the religions are free of followers who indulge in the ugliness of persecution and cruelty - even to this day. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by simple1

[Orton Rd]

Getting away from the main problem as usual which is the Quran and the life of Mohammad, and still using wikepedia as a 'reliable' source for history, when most people know it has been heavily censored, propagandized and edited by certain groups.

[simple1]

7 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Getting away from the main problem as usual which is the Quran and the life of Mohammad, and still using wikepedia as a 'reliable' source for history, when most people know it has been heavily censored, propagandized and edited by certain groups.

Main  problem is hatred, which from your posts you're fully subscribed

[Orton Rd]

Hatred is the way of Mohammad, not people on here criticizing his calls for violence and the violent and depraved life he led. Some people want any criticism of Islam to be categorized as hate speech of course, only insecure indefensible ideologies need to resort to such oppression.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

Hatred is the way of Mohammad, not people on here criticizing his calls for violence and the violent and depraved life he led. Some people want any criticism of Islam to be categorized as hate speech of course, only insecure indefensible ideologies need to resort to such oppression.

and submission.

[Krataiboy]

On 12/22/2019 at 6:04 PM, Sujo said:

Absolute rubbish. I live in malaysia and go drinking quite often with muslims. 

 

You are not marked for death by anyone. 

 

Jeez some people.

 

While the subject under discussion is blasphemy, your Muslim mates are taking a risk by sharing a few bevvies with you.

 

Followers of Islam in Malaysia are prohibited from consuming alcohol.

 

According to Wikipedia: "If someone blasphemes or otherwise engages in deviant behavior, Malaysia punishes such transgression with Sharia or through legislation such as the Penal Code."

 

By the sound of it, your drinking buddies could be fingered by the local religious police and end up repenting in one of the country's "rehabilitation" centre.

 

At least in Thailand, the worst you get for a night on the sauce is a hangover!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Krataiboy

[248900_1469958220]

Good stuff...lets import a whole load of people that think like that into Western countries.....and oh...wait....

[Drax]

And then people wonder why the racism against Muslim people. Not many countries murder people for speaking words. 

[ivor bigun]

On 12/22/2019 at 8:42 AM, PJPom said:

I think blasphemy should be regarded the same way as witch burning, something that belongs in the far distant past. The problem is that this country has nuclear weapons, worrying isn’t it........

i spent some time in Pakistan , they still live in the far distant past ,disgusting hellhole .

[ivor bigun]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:46 PM, simple1 said:

Responding to fact as opposed to opinion. yes for some periods in history as was also enforced by the Catholic Church, 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge

 

As you would know Muslims provided shelter for Jews from Christian persecution for hundreds of years in the past as did some Christian communities. However, none of the religions are free of followers who indulge in the ugliness of persecution and cruelty - even to this day. 

Funny how we dont here about most of these other religions who indulge in persecution and cruelty, but there are masses of stories of Muslim killings ,persecutions and cruelty , all the other terrorist killings must be censored and not reported ,especially those in Britain and down south here in Thailand .

its a religion of hate and persecution of other faiths,  

[simple1]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

Funny how we dont here about most of these other religions who indulge in persecution and cruelty, but there are masses of stories of Muslim killings ,persecutions and cruelty , all the other terrorist killings must be censored and not reported ,especially those in Britain and down south here in Thailand .

its a religion of hate and persecution of other faiths,  

There are killings and other evils implemented by those who subscribe to kharijite / Salafi / Takfir ideology. However, such ideologues are "The Outsiders" such events should not be utilised to vilify all Muslims as is so common on this forum.

 

As mentioned before "the House of Islam by Ed Husain has some excellent insights. In the context of Islamist violent extremism the chapter  "Who is a Jihadi?" is IMO a good backgrounder briefing

 

Thai security forces utilise torture and extrajudicial killing (terrorism) in the deep South. Corruption such as oil smuggling, and human trafficking by Thai security personnel just exacerbates the conflict I assume you have never heard of the recent attempted genocide in Myanmar or the war crimes by Buddhist security forces in Sri Lanka, nor the genocide in Rwanda aided by members of the Catholic Church etc etc etc

Edited December 26, 2019 by simple1

[Opl]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

There are killings and other evils implemented by those who subscribe to kharijite / Salafi / Takfir ideology. However, such ideologues are "The Outsiders" such events should not be utilised to vilify all Muslims as is so common on this forum.

 

As mentioned before "the House of Islam by Ed Husain has some excellent insights. In the context of Islamist violent extremism the chapter  "Who is a Jihadi?" is IMO a good backgrounder briefing

 

Thai security forces utilise torture and extrajudicial killing (terrorism) in the deep South. Corruption such as oil smuggling, and human trafficking by Thai security personnel just exacerbates the conflict I assume you have never heard of the recent attempted genocide in Myanmar or the war crimes by Buddhist security forces in Sri Lanka, nor the genocide in Rwanda aided by members of the Catholic Church etc etc etc

Blasphemy laws provide all Muslims living in no-muslim countries an easy excuse to terror attacks committed in and against their host countries. We've seen it in France. Proof if any that these people put Sharia first. What happens in Muslim countries where the populations support these laws is up to them.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Opl

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, Opl said:

Blasphemy laws give all Muslims living in no-muslim countries an easy excuse to terror attacks commited in their host countries. We've seen it in France. Proof if any that these people put Sharia first. What happens in Muslim countries where the populations support these laws is up to them.

As I said those from the Salifi ideological background (extremist conservatism), not all Muslims. Thailand has had Sharia Law Courts for Muslims since 1948, so far as I know not one trial for blasphemy. In any case fortunately death sentence for blasphemy are rare and limited to few Muslim majority countries. In the case of the OP it presents as personal vendetta by a group of Salifi extremists. One hopes the guy wins on appeal, but a dangerous course of action by his very brave legal representatives. Note so far thankfully  Pakistan has not executed anyone for blasphemy. More detail below...

 

https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/after-the-junaid-hafeez-verdict-time-to-face-the-truth-about-pakistans-blasphemy-law/

Edited December 26, 2019 by simple1

[Sujo]

On 12/24/2019 at 1:37 PM, Chazar said:

oh  dear they dont  like  being told their fantasy friend really is a total  fantasy.....no  problem we'll  just  kill  you, that ever  loving peaceful make  believe god  of theirs

Mohhammed is not a god

[Opl]

32 minutes ago, simple1 said:

As I said those from the Salifi ideological background (extremist conservatism), not all Muslims. Thailand has had Sharia Law Courts for Muslims since 1948, so far as I know not one trial for blasphemy. In any case fortunately death sentence for blasphemy are rare and limited to few Muslim majority countries. In the case of the OP it presents as personal vendetta by a group of Salifi extremists. One hopes the guy wins on appeal, but a dangerous course of action by his very brave legal representatives. Note so far thankfully  Pakistan has not executed anyone for blasphemy. More detail below...

 

https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/after-the-junaid-hafeez-verdict-time-to-face-the-truth-about-pakistans-blasphemy-law/

God save us from Sharia Law courts in the West ... 

[Sujo]

21 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

 

While the subject under discussion is blasphemy, your Muslim mates are taking a risk by sharing a few bevvies with you.

 

Followers of Islam in Malaysia are prohibited from consuming alcohol.

 

According to Wikipedia: "If someone blasphemes or otherwise engages in deviant behavior, Malaysia punishes such transgression with Sharia or through legislation such as the Penal Code."

 

By the sound of it, your drinking buddies could be fingered by the local religious police and end up repenting in one of the country's "rehabilitation" centre.

 

At least in Thailand, the worst you get for a night on the sauce is a hangover!

 

 

 

 

 

I also drink with govt ministers on occasions. But not when on formal business. They are quite safe from sharia.

 

One occasion with my gf and friends sharia police came to the bar. Us non muslims no issue. Muslims were lined up and told of the perils of drinking. Took about 20 mins and let go.

 

The young ones rebel quite a lot about that sort of thing. When up near the thai border she wont drink, they are like cavemen up there.

 

we went to a birthday party for a prince. It was at a bar, i introduced her to him and he asked if she wanted a whiskey. She said she is muslim. So he asked if she wanted it with water or soda. Still have the pic.

 

 

[Sujo]

14 minutes ago, Opl said:

God save us from Sharia Law courts in the West ... 

I dont think you need to be concerned of sharia law in the west, doesnt affect non muslims.