Who is legally at fault here?

[sniggie]

There is a different logic applied here in Thailand regarding motor accidents. My wife had an accident in our car a couple of miles from our house. A motorcycle rider turned across in front of her without warning. Slow speed so no-one was injured. By the time I got there my wife had called our insurance company. I met the motorcyclist and he had been drinking. Not surprisingly, this being in an Isaan village he had no tax, no insurance, no licence and, although I can't recall, probably no numberplate. When the insurance guy arrived he took details of the damage to our car.  Then he started taking notes of the damage to the motorbike. I got a bit edgy about this as, to my mind, the fault was only one sided. I was all for calling the police but my wife told me firmly to back off. I got really angry when she gave the motorcyclist 1000 baht to get checked up at hospital. Overall the incident cost me around 25k baht in hire car costs while the insurer's recommended garage undertook a rather leisurely and very average repair to our car. 

 

So, in answer to your question and other posters' comments the person who pays is the one who has been diligent enough to keep their insurance up to date, falang or otherwise. If you've got insurance you're paying!    

[roo860]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Learned this year that the law is often irrelevant here when it comes to who carries the blame in a traffic accident

What happened?

[Don Mega]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

CTPL is all the same for m/c, wave type & scoots and if you can get voluntary 1st for 2 wheels you're lucky. 

 

I did not mention any insurance other than the compulsory por ror bor so why are you dribbling on about voluntary insurance ?

[Isaanbiker]

As a rider of a motorbike you must always ride that you can stop before you hit a pedestrian, I'm pretty sure that it's also up to the cop who's involved, if any.

 

  Whenever a foreigner's involved, it seems that being a foreigner alone is reason enough to be guilty.

 

There's a guy who'd killed a drunk Thai in Pattaya riding on the wrong side of the road and the court ruled that he's ( the foreigner) was guilty.

 

 

 The reason was: "If the foreigner wouldn't have been in Thailand, the accident wouldn't have happened." So much about this country.

 

  

 

   

[sniggie]

13 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

 

 The reason was: "If the foreigner wouldn't have been in Thailand, the accident wouldn't have happened." So much about this country.

A touch apocryphal maybe, but not beyond the realms of possibility.

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, donnacha said:

As a general rule on ThaiVisa or, indeed, any forum, you should ignore anything said by a poster who, in later posts, reveals himself to be unhinged.

Unless you have have your own footage of an accident, which indisputably demonstrates the other party's fault, as a farang hitting a Thai you are unquestionably at a disadvantage.

You might be lucky in having a fair-minded police man attend, or witnesses willing to attest your innocence, or the other party being mature enough to accept responsibility for their own mistake.

Bear in mind, however, that many Thais will perceive as "fair" an outcome in which the farang, who can obviously afford it, covers any costs. That can be enough for the cop to assign more credibility to the other party's version of events, or for witnesses to decide not to get involved, or for the other party to omit certain details.

That is a reality of living in Thailand as a foreigner. Some people may have had different personal experiences, but that does not alter the greater reality.

 

agree, cctv footage could be a game changer..

[Kenny202]

3 hours ago, Don Mega said:

what a massive steaming pile of buffalo excrement... do you actually believe the <deleted> you dribble ?

I will second what he said. The thinking here seems to be you will get bad karma if you have more money and dont stump up. I had an accident where 2 15yo girls on a motorbike T boned me. I was unhurt they ended up night in hospital and bike written off. Driver underage and of course no license, rego or insurance and holding her phone obviously sending a message. It wasnt quite as one sided as you read on here. The police were quite fair even told the parents I was trying to do the right thing and not be greedy. You would think a lay down misere unlicensed rider but even my lawyer said it could go either way in court and he may favour the girl as she was a minor. I negotiated them down to 20k thai baht and walked away. Afyer this I now have 3rd party insurance on my bike, 1500 baht a year.

 

My friends car was hit by a 12yo on a 300cc bike whick his father bought him. No helmet, lost control of the bike and hit my friends stationary parked car on the other side of the road! He was ordered to pay 10k baht at the police station. What really peaved him was his wife seemed to be urging him to pay the money, even though he was 100% innocent saying better pay than get bad luck because he was a kid. Kids dad the one should have been horse whipped.

 

I get pedestrians walking out in front of me all the time. Unbelievably brainless. But I think in any country unless you have convincing CCTV footage you will be at fault.

[Don Mega]

5 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I will second what he said. The thinking here seems to be you will get bad karma if you have more money and dont stump up. I had an accident where 2 15yo girls on a motorbike T boned me. I was unhurt they ended up night in hospital and bike written off. Driver underage and of course no license, rego or insurance and holding her phone obviously sending a message. It wasnt quite as one sided as you read on here. The police were quite fair even told the parents I was trying to do the right thing and not be greedy. You would think a lay down misere unlicensed rider but even my lawyer said it could go either way in court and he may favour the girl as she was a minor. I negotiated them down to 20k thai baht and walked away. Afyer this I now have 3rd party insurance on my bike, 1500 baht a year.

 

My friends car was hit by a 12yo on a 300cc bike whick his father bought him. No helmet, lost control of the bike and hit my friends stationary parked car on the other side of the road! He was ordered to pay 10k baht at the police station. What really peaved him was his wife seemed to be urging him to pay the money, even though he was 100% innocent saying better pay than get bad luck because he was a kid. Kids dad the one should have been horse whipped.

 

I get pedestrians walking out in front of me all the time. Unbelievably brainless. But I think in any country unless you have convincing CCTV footage you will be at fault.

Insurance companies deal with that.....ohh, you did not have insurance !!

 

You did not have insurance........ bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Isaanbiker]

3 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Insurance companies deal with that.....ohh, you did not have insurance !!

 

You did not have insurance........ bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Please be aware that the ordinary insurance only covers injuries up to 12 K. They do not pay for any damage caused to any vehicles or other things. 

[Don Mega]

Just now, Isaanbiker said:

Please be aware that the ordinary insurance only covers injuries up to 12 K. They do not pay for any damage caused to any vehicles or other things. 

please be aware.. you are wrong about personal injuries coverage.

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

And also another problem try getting 1st class ins on some scooters.

I have - and always had - First Class on all my bikes.

Even if you buy an older model, Second Class Plus will cover all that 1st does except damage to your own vehicle if you are at fault

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Don Mega said:

I did not mention any insurance other than the compulsory por ror bor so why are you dribbling on about voluntary insurance ?

Because in most cases of vehicles,  you have to have CTPL as well as compulsory insurance unless you have mega bucks you miserable person you, as said by truck drivers. ????

[Don Mega]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Because in most cases of vehicles,  you have to have CTPL as well as compulsory insurance unless you have mega bucks you miserable person you, as said by truck drivers. ????

CTPL is compulsory  insurance.

 

More dribble from you ?

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

I have - and always had - First Class on all my bikes.

Even if you buy an older model, Second Class Plus will cover all that 1st does except damage to your own vehicle if you are at fault

Yeah you're right I was only pointing out about bike people saying they have 1st class when you cannot in most cases get it or have it.

I only insure for thieft. ???? 

[Presnock]

I've live in many countries and as mentioned, as a foreigner you are almost always held as doing the wrong.  A fellow worker struck and killed a drunk guy who stepped into the road from bushes during a rain storm and was immediately struck by my friend.  Due to the old age of the individual, the huge amount was smaller than if it had been a younger person as the court ruled that the fine was what the older person would have been paid for work for normal life span.  as mention by others, pay the hospital charges immediately, wai and apologize profusely and offer monies.

 

[Assurancetourix]

4 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Learned this year that the law is often irrelevant here when it comes to who carries the blame in a traffic accident

The law is when you go to court and even there, it is very variable geometry.
Regarding a traffic accident like the one mentioned above; there are no rules;
it depends on so many factors;
It has in any case nothing to do or so little with the fortune of the two people involved or the fact that one of the two is a farang ..
In my sub-prefecture I am known as the white wolf for a lot of reasons;
first because I have lived here for over 13 years, then because everyone knows that I never smoke or drink alcohol;
Finally, because being part of the local cycling club, all HiSo and all rank cops know me, they ride a bike with me, know that I am serious and that I have never been involved in a traffic accident.
I have traveled 180,000 km around Thailand in ten years with my pickup and it is like new;
about as many km with my mountain bike and never had the slightest problem
If that were to happen, and I hope that never, the discussions would relate to a bunch of criteria which have absolutely nothing to do with the accident itself.

[Mike West]

On 12/22/2019 at 2:29 PM, Sheryl said:

That she stepped abruptly in front of you would normally  be reason not to face any sort of criminal charge (though if she is well connected all bets are off).

 

But I sense criminal liability isn't the issue here but rather who pays for injuries sustained.  In a vehicle hits pedestrian scenario it is always the vehicle and of course all should have compulsory insurance for such eventualities. Your problem will be if:

 

1. Medical expenses genuinely exceed the insurance pay out  OR

 

2. They don't but she finds a way to exaggerate them or seeks other pay out. As not infrequently happens when a foreigner is involved.

 

Best if possible to just refer any requests to your insurance co, and let them handle it.

 

Has she filed a police complaint?  And do you know the extent of her injuries?

she went for one full day examination, and didn't bother to show up for the rest.  

[Mike West]

On 12/22/2019 at 5:57 PM, Kenny202 said:

I will second what he said. The thinking here seems to be you will get bad karma if you have more money and dont stump up. I had an accident where 2 15yo girls on a motorbike T boned me. I was unhurt they ended up night in hospital and bike written off. Driver underage and of course no license, rego or insurance and holding her phone obviously sending a message. It wasnt quite as one sided as you read on here. The police were quite fair even told the parents I was trying to do the right thing and not be greedy. You would think a lay down misere unlicensed rider but even my lawyer said it could go either way in court and he may favour the girl as she was a minor. I negotiated them down to 20k thai baht and walked away. Afyer this I now have 3rd party insurance on my bike, 1500 baht a year.

 

My friends car was hit by a 12yo on a 300cc bike whick his father bought him. No helmet, lost control of the bike and hit my friends stationary parked car on the other side of the road! He was ordered to pay 10k baht at the police station. What really peaved him was his wife seemed to be urging him to pay the money, even though he was 100% innocent saying better pay than get bad luck because he was a kid. Kids dad the one should have been horse whipped.

 

I get pedestrians walking out in front of me all the time. Unbelievably brainless. But I think in any country unless you have convincing CCTV footage you will be at fault.

<deleted>? are you serious? that is totally outrageous, the POS kid should not be on a bike in the first place. 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Mike West said:

she went for one full day examination, and didn't bother to show up for the rest.  

 

In that case your insurance should easily cover it...even if it is a lower maximum due to the insurance company considering you at fault.

 

Leave it to the insurance co to sort out with her, is my advice.

 

And maybe consider upgrading your insurance for future.

 

In my experience insurance companies here have their own rules for determining fault, they are highly simplistic,  perhaps because that makes for ease of application. But that also means decisions are not necessarily accurate  in the full scheme of things. They seem to go by blanket rules and things like analysis of CCTV footage even if available rarely comes into play.

 

For example, some years ago I had a minor fender bender with another car in a Tesco Lotus parking lot. I had pulled out of one of the parking rows,looked both ways and  turned right onto a then completely empty road leading from the entrance, as I was almost (90%) through the turn another car through the entrance fast (faster than normal for a parking lot i.e. at road speeds) and hit my right fender. When the insurance guy came from my company, he explained to  me that their rule was that in any collision involving a car that had come out of a smaller road into a larger road, the car that came out of the smaller road was automatically at fault, regardless. I didn't argue as it was obviously going to be a waste of time and this way, both insurance companies were  in agreement so things could wrap up swiftly. And of course the stakes were low.

 

Quite likely there is a similar rule for when a moto or car hits a pedestrian.

 

The insurance companies have their simplistic rules which they all understand and agree to, and there is usually little to be gained by trying to object to them. Their approach does have advantages in terms of ease of application and avoidance of conflict.

 

Unless criminal charges are being pressed (which does not sound like the case) just let it stand as decided by the insurance co. even though it may not make sense to you. It's how they do things here...and it does save a lot of time.

[canthai55]

^^^ Wise Words !