Netanyahu accuses ICC of anti-Semitism in pursuit of war crimes probe

[jany123]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

Let's face it and tell the truth, this is NOT about the Palestinians is it? the jews were persecuted, hated and ostracized all through history long before there were any palestinians around, so what were the excuses than huh? the terms palestinas become to be known  after the 6 days way in 1967, where were the palestinians than? citizens of Jordan that's where...

Ummm... what?

 

prior to the UN decision to give Palestine to the jews by creating Israel, the area known as  Israel was called Palestine. If Palestine’s citizens were in Jordan, it was because of their eviction from their homeland.... nothing to do with being Jordanian citizens.

 

if you believe that the term “Palestine” is new to the world, I’m thinking a modicum of ignorance might be involved.

 

[GalaxyMan]

49 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

It’s awfully hard to trace such lineages definitively, and the mixing of peoples over centuries often leaves no clear lines of ancestry. Some historians argue that Palestinian Arabs are largely the descendants of the Hebrew peasants who occupied the land in biblical times, then converted to Islam during the Arab invasions. Coupled with the theory that Ashkenazi (Eastern European) Jews, who make up most of Israel’s population, are descendants of the Khazars, a medieval Turkic people whose leadership adopted Judaism and whose central Asian khanate was ultimately absorbed by the expanding Russian state, and you have the rather delicious if absurd situation that the present conflict is between proto-Turks (present-day Israeli Jews) and ancient Hebrews (present-day Palestinian Arabs). (Unfortunately, the Khazar theory has been thoroughly debunked by genetic research.)

 

In any event, a modern-day Palestinian Arab identity has clearly developed over the past century that cannot be denied, certainly helped along by the conflict with the Israeli state, and this is simply part of the organic development and transformation of human societies/cultures, that’s happening all over the place, all the time.

I read recently that they had through genetics determined that the so-called Philistines were originally from the southern Greek area. They migrated to what is now Israel when the Greek states began to break up.

 

Palestine is a made-up construct, as are any Palestinian peoples. There is no historic mention of either until approximately WWI when the British took control of the area.

 

This is a good link to explain the Philistine issue.
https://www.livescience.com/55429-philistines.html

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said:

I read recently that they had through genetics determined that the so-called Philistines were originally from the southern Greek area. They migrated to what is now Israel when the Greek states began to break up.

 

Palestine is a made-up construct, as are any Palestinian peoples. There is no historic mention of either until approximately WWI when the British took control of the area.

 

This is a good link to explain the Philistine issue.
https://www.livescience.com/55429-philistines.html

Not sure about that but my understanding is there really isn't an ethnic distinction between Palestinian Arabs and Arabs in general. So identifying as Palestinian is a political construct (not saying there is anything wrong with that or that it diminishes their claims for human rights).

 

Jewish people on the other hand are most definitely a distinct ethnoreligious group. 

 

Of course the founding of the state of Israel as a majority state of the Jewish people is also a political construct.

That doesn't make Jewish identity better or worse than Palestinian identity but there are fundamental differences in the origins of those identities. 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Jingthing

[Mick501]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

Shame on you for posting such vile content whether you're a Jew or not, this kind of hateful attitude will not endear you to any cause or narrative , Again, a shame on you...

Is that you, Greta?

[Traubert]

It might have been more expedient to face the charges, disprove them and then claim anti-Semitism.

 

This sounds like playing the 'get out of jail free' card.

[jany123]

1 hour ago, GalaxyMan said:

Palestine is a made-up construct, as are any Palestinian peoples. There is no historic mention of either until approximately WWI when the British took control of the area.

Mmmm.... it’s really not that hard.

 

“The first appearance of the term "Palestine" was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinê" between Phoenicia and Egypt in The Histories.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_"Palestine"

[Pedrogaz]

I am sick and tired of all these anti-semitism accusations from Israel. The Israelis commit atrocities against the Palestinians and claim anyone calling them on it is anti-semitic.

They have changed the definition of antisemitism.

I am a proud member of BDS. I want Israel out of Palestine and all their settlements too. I boycott all Israeli goods. If that makes people call me antisemitic, well, I'm sure I'll be able to live with that.

[Jingthing]

52 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I am sick and tired of all these anti-semitism accusations from Israel. The Israelis commit atrocities against the Palestinians and claim anyone calling them on it is anti-semitic.

They have changed the definition of antisemitism.

I am a proud member of BDS. I want Israel out of Palestine and all their settlements too. I boycott all Israeli goods. If that makes people call me antisemitic, well, I'm sure I'll be able to live with that.

Well, you didn't define the borders of Palestine that you want Israel to be out of. That's important of course because lots of BDS types don't really accept the existence of Israel within ANY borders.

 

As far as the definition of antisemitism yes it has been justifiably expanded to include toxic rhetoric of demonization against Israel. For example calling Israel the same as Nazis, etc. Also it's quite common for the term anti-Zionist to be used as a more socially acceptable CODE for Jew hatred. It isn't always used that way, but it very often is, and it's usually not very hard to tell the difference.  

Edited December 23, 2019 by Jingthing

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well, you didn't define the borders of Palestine that you want Israel to be out of. That's important of course because lots of BDS types don't really accept the existence of Israel within ANY borders.

 

As far as the definition of antisemitism yes it has been justifiably expanded to include toxic rhetoric of demonization against Israel. For example calling Israel the same as Nazis, etc. Also it's quite common for the term anti-Zionist to be used as a more socially acceptable CODE for Jew hatred. It isn't always used that way, but it very often is, and it's usually not very hard to tell the difference.  

BDS accepts Israel.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

BDS accepts Israel.

There is no such thing as a monolithic BDS. There is a range. 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I think it may be more of a case of (justified) anti-BIBI-ism than antisemitism. That said it's definitely a fact that a lot of the hostility towards the existence of Israel and Israel's right to defend itself is rooted in Jew hatred. 

That wasn't so when Israel was created by the UN. It didn't happen, IMO, till Israel stole Palestinian land to build illegal settlements on, and proceeded to harrass and intimidate Palestinians living on their own land.

The occupation of Palestine is illegal, I understand, ergo everything Israelis do in occupied land is illegal.

They only get away with it because the US vetoes anything contrary to Israel's wishes in the UN, IMO. If the UN wasn't so impotent, UN troops should have been sent to remove the Israelis, like in Korea in 1950, IMO.

The only legal Israeli borders are those set out in the UN mandate. All else is by conquest.

I used to support Israel, till it became an occupying power.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well, you didn't define the borders of Palestine that you want Israel to be out of. That's important of course because lots of BDS types don't really accept the existence of Israel within ANY borders.

 

I accept Israel has a "legal" right to exist within the boundaries of the 1948 UN mandate. Outside that is Palestinian land.

If you can link to a UN directive expanding the original mandate I'll accept that.

Territory acquired by aggression is not, far as I know, legally owned land.

[GalaxyMan]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I accept Israel has a "legal" right to exist within the boundaries of the 1948 UN mandate. Outside that is Palestinian land.

If you can link to a UN directive expanding the original mandate I'll accept that.

Territory acquired by aggression is not, far as I know, legally owned land.

I remember marching in a protest in Tel Aviv back in the 1980s against Gush Emunim, one of the first 'illegal' settlements in the occupied West Bank. At the time, it was the largest demonstration in Israel's history, over 100,000 people. I still have the T-shirt that commemorated that event.

 

I understand acquiring territory through conquest. It's an age-old practice. What I objected to and still do is the way Israel has treated its non-Jewish residents, treating them as second-class citizens, if that, denying them basic rights. It is beyond shameful.

 

Some of the best friends I made were in Arab East Jerusalem, where I learned to play backgammon. That all changed with the advent of Ariel Sharon, Bibi's mentor, a hater first-class. It's all been downhill ever since. I actually got stoned, as in having stones thrown at me, by a group of young boys when I was leaving my friend's house in the Old CIty one evening, who I used to visit to get properly stoned and play backgammon. ???? An old Arab man harshly chastised and beat the boys, apologizing to me for their behavior. That's when I realized that the entire game had changed, which made me very sad.

Edited December 23, 2019 by GalaxyMan

[toast1]

Millions of people slaughtered in Syria, no one cares.

Iran slaughters tens of thousands, no one cares.

Jewish Israel's prime minister of  a Jewish country says something and people go nuts.

 

Yes, he's right. 

 

>Territory acquired by aggression is not, far as I know, legally owned land.

Well that must be about 95% of the world's countries on occupied land. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by toast1

[Cory1848]

13 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

I am sick and tired of all these anti-semitism accusations from Israel. The Israelis commit atrocities against the Palestinians and claim anyone calling them on it is anti-semitic.

They have changed the definition of antisemitism.

I am a proud member of BDS. I want Israel out of Palestine and all their settlements too. I boycott all Israeli goods. If that makes people call me antisemitic, well, I'm sure I'll be able to live with that.

I, too, condemn Israeli aggression, but the problem I think is that Israel is often held to a higher standard. Sure, you can boycott Israeli products, and that in and of itself is not an anti-Semitic act. However, look at what the Chinese have done in Tibet and the Uighur territories; are you also boycotting Chinese products? The postcommunist Russian state has destroyed Chechnya, invaded Ukraine, and continues to foment violence in Syria; do you boycott them? Do you make sure that, whenever you tank up your car or motorbike, the gas you’re buying doesn’t originate from Saudi Arabia? Do you know that the Americans killed twice as many Iraqi civilians during the opening weeks of the “shock and awe” campaign as died in the World Trade Towers? Are you still buying stuff made in America?

 

If you’re aiming for moral purity, you might be limited to purchasing products made of seashells from the Cook Islands. Otherwise, your boycott of Israeli goods is simple hypocrisy. Israel holds a “special place” in many people’s enmity, and that indeed can often be attributed to anti-Semitism.

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, toast1 said:

Millions of people slaughtered in Syria, no one cares.

Iran slaughters tens of thousands, no one cares.

Jewish Israel's prime minister of  a Jewish country says something and people go nuts.

 

Yes, he's right. 

 

>Territory acquired by aggression is not, far as I know, legally owned land.

Well that must be about 95% of the world's countries on occupied land. 

What makes you think nobody cares? This thread is not about Syria or Iran. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by RuamRudy

[Harveyg]

On 12/23/2019 at 9:30 AM, ezzra said:

Let's face it and tell the truth, this is NOT about the Palestinians is it? the jews were persecuted, hated and ostracized all through history long before there were any palestinians around, so what were the excuses than huh? the terms palestinas become to be known  after the 6 days way in 1967, where were the palestinians than? citizens of Jordan that's where...

Ezzra.  I’m tired.  There is nothing to face because the history is not known.  Some comments here are incredibly naive.  Some are anti Semitic without the intention to be so.   No minds will be changed here, no matter how much evidence you bring. 

[the guest]

I'm surprised this so-called leader is still operating as a free man. 

[DeaconJohn]

This action by the ICC is long overdue.

Tragic and bloody history is made by unreported massacres.

"It plants hatred in the heart".  A Palestinian once said of a mass killing by Israeli troops decades ago in Gaza in which his uncle had been killed.

In the Middle East atrocities don't go unavenged forever.  Even if the present generation is too beaten down and enfeebled to settle a blood debt, then you can be sure the day will come when revenge is served cold and all the more foul for having been allowed to putrefy for so long.

Put an end to these killings and land grabs.  If you really want peace then live within your internationally recognized 1967 borders and stop stealing your neighbours land.

Since the founding of Israel in 1948 your history has been one of rapacious expansion at the expense of the Palestinian people whom you forcibly displaced to create your state.

Another mass expulsion is now needed to allow for an influx of Israeli settlers into the occupied territories.

The alternative to ethnic cleansing is coexistence and the granting of civil rights to all citizens regardless of their race or religion.

That will be the end of your country as a Jewish homeland.  Doing it would be an auto de fa on a grand scale.

It's not going to happen - it will be thought akin to a second Holocaust and they just won't do it.

"These are a people that shall dwell alone".

[toast1]

>What makes you think nobody cares? This thread is not about Syria or Iran. 

Because no one does.

When it doesn't involve Jews no one cares.
Millions have been slaughtered in the Middle East by non-Jews, no one cares.

 

Hundreds of Kurdish villages were raised to the ground, tens of thousands killed, do you think anyone cares? No.

 

No Jews, no one cares.

"These are people that shall dwell in the heads of people who only care about Jews" 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by toast1

[jakestevernson]

When you way up the information, it's hard not feel incredibly sorry for the Palestinian people by the behaviour of their own leaders and of course the Israeli Government.

 

I recently read the booked titled the General's Son by Miko Peled (former Israeli special forces solder). Very moving and gives a real insight into the lives of many Palestinians.

 

Really sad that he has been accused of being anti-semitic, which considering he is a practising Jew and fought for Israel, is a disgraceful.

[GalaxyMan]

44 minutes ago, jakestevernson said:

...it's hard not feel incredibly sorry for the Palestinian people by the behaviour of their own leaders...

I'm constantly amazed that this particular issue isn't more prominent in the news. As bad as the Israeli government treats the non-Jewish population, nothing compares to how badly the Arabs are treated by the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, GalaxyMan said:

I'm constantly amazed that this particular issue isn't more prominent in the news. As bad as the Israeli government treats the non-Jewish population, nothing compares to how badly the Arabs are treated by the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza.

Non Jewish Israeli citizens are treated the same as Jewish Israel citizens 

[sanemax]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

What makes you think nobody cares? This thread is not about Syria or Iran. 

Where are all the threads about at atrocities happening  in Syria and Iran and add Yemen to that list as well 

[WayWokeWhiteGuy]

1 hour ago, toast1 said:

>What makes you think nobody cares? This thread is not about Syria or Iran. 

Because no one does.

When it doesn't involve Jews no one cares.
Millions have been slaughtered in the Middle East by non-Jews, no one cares.

 

Hundreds of Kurdish villages were raised to the ground, tens of thousands killed, do you think anyone cares? No.

 

No Jews, no one cares.

"These are people that shall dwell in the heads of people who only care about Jews" 

 

 

That's actually not true. Shooting rockets into Israel includes Jews and no one cares.

[GalaxyMan]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Non Jewish Israeli citizens are treated the same as Jewish Israel citizens 

You do not know what you are talking about.

[mogandave]

19 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said:

You do not know what you are talking about.

So how are the Palestinian Jews treated in Palestine? 
 

 

 

[Cory1848]

1 hour ago, GalaxyMan said:

I'm constantly amazed that this particular issue isn't more prominent in the news. As bad as the Israeli government treats the non-Jewish population, nothing compares to how badly the Arabs are treated by the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza.

Exactly. And further, at the creation of the Israeli state, about 800,000 Palestinian Arabs living within the mandated borders of Israel at that time fled or were expelled from their homes. Rather than being absorbed by neighboring Arab countries, they ended up in refugee camps, where their descendants still live, essentially as diplomatic pawns of Arab leaders. At the same time, an equivalent number of Jews living in Arab cities across the Arab world fled or were expelled, and the Israeli state welcomed them all, giving them citizenship and other forms of assistance.

 

Was this “ethnic cleansing”? Sure, and it was ugly and brutal. But it was 75 years ago, and now the descendants of the expelled Jews are leading normal lives, while the descendants of the expelled Arabs, 1.5 million of them, are languishing in camps being fed false promises about their “right of return” -- which will never happen, however unjust that may be. For this cruel situation that continues into a third generation, I blame the callousness of Arab leadership.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, GalaxyMan said:

You do not know what you are talking about.

Yes I do know what I am talking about '

Having spent some time living with Israeli Arabs in Israel , I do know what I am talking about

[thequietman]

On 12/23/2019 at 8:20 AM, ezzra said:

Let's see now, what do you call a hundred of instances where jews and Israelis are targeted all over the world with hate crimes and the BDS targeting israel products? or several countries Iran, Turkey Russia just to name a few, that invades and occupy other countries and territories that's ok, Russia air bombing civilians in Syria it's ok, China imposing a million muslim Uighurs in entertainment labour camps, nevermind that, the UK Corbyn who made is his platform to pender the Palestinians and terrorist groups by calling them 'my friends'... i can go on and on and on, yes, it is an anti semite, hateful and dark ages mentality behaviour whether it goes netanyahu ways or every other which way... 

but .... but ..... but ........ they killed Jesus!