EU may need to extend deadline for trade talks with UK: von der Leyen

[Monomial]

A very unique perspective from the Financial Times on why the EU may not have the power it thinks in this negotiation. Perhaps WTO rules actually have an exemption that the EU hasn't considered, leaving them without a gun in the fight?

 

Given that the talks on the FTA between the EU and the UK are likely to be very political in nature, then should the UK actually crash out to WTO rules, I can imagine a situation where the UK would try and argue for this. It certainly would be in the spirit of the law. And since it would also likely take a few years to make it through the WTO's dispute settlement body to get a ruling, the UK would have the extra time needed to secure a deal.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/07a5690a-3523-11ea-a6d3-9a26f8c3cba4

 

 

[david555]

9 hours ago, Monomial said:

A very unique perspective from the Financial Times on why the EU may not have the power it thinks in this negotiation. Perhaps WTO rules actually have an exemption that the EU hasn't considered, leaving them without a gun in the fight?

 

Given that the talks on the FTA between the EU and the UK are likely to be very political in nature, then should the UK actually crash out to WTO rules, I can imagine a situation where the UK would try and argue for this. It certainly would be in the spirit of the law. And since it would also likely take a few years to make it through the WTO's dispute settlement body to get a ruling, the UK would have the extra time needed to secure a deal.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/07a5690a-3523-11ea-a6d3-9a26f8c3cba4

 

 

"the UK would have the extra time needed to secure a deal."

 

Sorry can not enter your link a I am not a subscriber ….

So about last line ….I thought U.K. aka Boris said he does not extend ….and leave means leave …. now when WTO rules coming on the horizon  a sudden  U.K would welcome more time …. same as E.U. say's anyway…. 

 

So here w go again a U.K. dragging his feet....when the exit comes close …. unless …. unless they have their cake sliced on their choice and size ….. a leaver who wish same privilege's as a member ...

Wake Up it is close to calling time ????

 

 

[Monomial]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

"the UK would have the extra time needed to secure a deal."

 

Sorry can not enter your link a I am not a subscriber ….

So about last line ….I thought U.K. aka Boris said he does not extend ….and leave means leave …. now when WTO rules coming on the horizon  a sudden  U.K would welcome more time …. same as E.U. say's anyway…. 

 

So here w go again a U.K. dragging his feet....when the exit comes close …. unless …. unless they have their cake sliced on their choice and size ….. a leaver who wish same privilege's as a member ...

Wake Up it is close to calling time ????

 

 

 

Sorry about the paywall. That is a real annoyance which I wish companies wouldn't do.

 

The basic premise of the article is that WTO terms allow for the status of "Most Favored Nation" in setting tariffs. In the past, this has been awarded to countries that were former colonies, so that the political realities of becoming independent states can be worked out without the trade ties becoming a political weapon.  Many countries still have MFN recognized status today.

 

If the UK claims that the countries of the EU belong under MFN status, then they can waive incoming tariffs from EU countries and still keep different tariffs for all other WTO member states. This is the lever that the EU thinks they have. In other words, if the UK wants to keep buying EU goods, they will either have to waive tariffs entirely, or charge the same tariff to EU countries which would raise prices for consumers.

 

The MFN clause would defeat this argument. Basically, the UK could still allow EU imports tariff free, there would be very little rise in cost to the consumer, and things would continue as normal. This would likely be challenged by other WTO member states, and would need to go to arbitration. However, during this time, the UK could continue negotiations with the EU while trading on WTO terms and not charging any tariffs on EU imports.

 

It turns what the EU thinks is a cannon into a popgun.

 

There is obviously a lot of disagreement on whether the UK could successfully defend granting MFN status to the EU countries using this WTO clause. However, historically all colonies declaring independence from a union have been allowed to do this to prevent trade becoming a politcal issue. So it is not clear how the WTO would ultimately rule. This legal arbitration would clearly be complicated and take time, and the UK could continue its FTA negotiations during this period without needing to extend the withdrawl/transition agreement AND without needing to charge tariffs on imports.

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

"the UK would have the extra time needed to secure a deal."

 

Sorry can not enter your link a I am not a subscriber ….

So about last line ….I thought U.K. aka Boris said he does not extend ….and leave means leave …. now when WTO rules coming on the horizon  a sudden  U.K would welcome more time …. same as E.U. say's anyway…. 

 

So here w go again a U.K. dragging his feet....when the exit comes close …. unless …. unless they have their cake sliced on their choice and size ….. a leaver who wish same privilege's as a member ...

Wake Up it is close to calling time ????

 

 

 

So funny, when everyone else has noticed that it's the EU doing the real foot-dragging now.

Edited January 13, 2020 by nauseus

[david555]

4 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

Sorry about the paywall. That is a real annoyance which I wish companies wouldn't do.

 

The basic premise of the article is that WTO terms allow for the status of "Most Favored Nation" in setting tariffs. In the past, this has been awarded to countries that were former colonies, so that the political realities of becoming independent states can be worked out without the trade ties becoming a political weapon.  Many countries still have MFN recognized status today.

 

If the UK claims that the countries of the EU belong under MFN status, then they can waive incoming tariffs from EU countries and still keep different tariffs for all other WTO member states. This is the lever that the EU thinks they have. In other words, if the UK wants to keep buying EU goods, they will either have to waive tariffs entirely, or charge the same tariff to EU countries which would raise prices for consumers.

 

The MFN clause would defeat this argument. Basically, the UK could still allow EU imports tariff free, there would be very little rise in cost to the consumer, and things would continue as normal. This would likely be challenged by other WTO member states, and would need to go to arbitration. However, during this time, the UK could continue negotiations with the EU while trading on WTO terms and not charging any tariffs on EU imports.

 

It turns what the EU thinks is a cannon into a popgun.

 

There is obviously a lot of disagreement on whether the UK could successfully defend granting MFN status to the EU countries using this WTO clause. However, historically all colonies declaring independence from a union have been allowed to do this to prevent trade becoming a politcal issue. So it is not clear how the WTO would ultimately rule. This legal arbitration would clearly be complicated and take time, and the UK could continue its FTA negotiations during this period without needing to extend the withdrawl/transition agreement AND without needing to charge tariffs on imports.

 

simple said negotiations can be done any god given day month year decade …. but agreements can be in the clouds same time .E.U. can not interfere in any other country's rules … same for U.K. on E.U. rules …. nobody can force a country or Union to grant something they don't want to grant if other conditions are not agreed .

I am only surprised  as E.U. says time to limited , and Boris te almighty (true he has full power …!) said he don't want to extend ….. strange thing if that would … could even become into a court case as it contradict what you say " more time to negotiate a deal " 

 

I guess you are not a full leaver as they like the no deal option so much , but I think they go get what they are wishing for as the sound is in the air  ….alignment or ….

[samran]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

So funny, when everyone else has noticed that it's the EU doing the real foot-dragging now.

If I was them I’d do the same. If you aren’t inside the tent you are outside it...

Edited January 13, 2020 by samran

[david555]

40 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

So funny, when everyone else has noticed that it's the EU doing the real foot-dragging now.

The foot dragging by your claim  , is only if the U.K. wish that Christmas letter package done  in this short time , it was the U.K. shouting their wishful no deal option …. that is coming very close now , so don't be disappointed you go get it .

The U.K. never give up the blaming game , remember the U.K. was leaving , is leaving ,so hurry up start packing if you don't like it ,but E.U. can not give you all you wish in this short time (even wont get that in longer time neither…) You U.K. request this & that  ….and E.U. reply  can not all be done in that time frame …. we undemocratic E.U. must strange enough have consent of 27 governments …. We don't have a full sole powered ruler as the U.K. where now Boris has no opposition and can do what he likes …. in U.K. 

 

Only  he only rules in the U.K. with that full power …..not any meaning in E.U. 

 

Remember  Leave means leave 

Edited January 13, 2020 by david555

[evadgib]

The sand is running out and there ain't no Bercow coming to the rescue this time.

[david555]

14 minutes ago, samran said:

If I was them I’d do the same. If you aren’t inside the tent you are outside it...

If you are not at the table ….you are sure on the menu.... (same meaning but different phrasing )

Edited January 13, 2020 by david555

[david555]

21 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The sand is running out and there ain't no Bercow coming to the rescue this time.

No , leaving means leaving , but whiteout the furniture's  55555 ! , besides this glass could become a Scottish one ...Besides this glass never get empty …? Typical U.K. Brexit glass /behavior   lol

Are you still blaming J.Bercow ?…..maybe he could stop Meghxit   5555 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by david555

[david555]

don't worry Boris will solve it (by mouth as usual ….joke included …)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/13/brexit-irish-border-uk-northern-ireland

Lisa O'Carroll and Kate Proctor

Mon 13 Jan 2020 06.00 GMT

Brexit: Irish border issue could land UK in court, report finds

Northern Ireland customs plans could take five years to implement, IfG says

 

The Irish border could yet snag Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, with experts saying it will be impossible to deliver the computer systems for the special arrangements for Northern Ireland by the end of this year. Failure to implement the new systems will risk legal action by the European commission against Britain, the Institute for Government says.

In a new report, it says: “The [Brexit] deal has the support of no Northern Irish political parties and it looks almost impossible to complete the practical changes, for government and business, by the end of the year. Failure to comply with the withdrawal agreement could see the European commission begin infringement proceedings and the UK ending up at the ECJ [European court of justice].”

Edited January 13, 2020 by david555

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, samran said:

If I was them I’d do the same. If you aren’t inside the tent you are outside it...

That is the general idea. This EU circus tent is in tatters, the acts are dated and there is an entire herd of elephants in there.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

The foot dragging by your claim  , is only if the U.K. wish that Christmas letter package done  in this short time , it was the U.K. shouting their wishful no deal option …. that is coming very close now , so don't be disappointed you go get it .

The U.K. never give up the blaming game , remember the U.K. was leaving , is leaving ,so hurry up start packing if you don't like it ,but E.U. can not give you all you wish in this short time (even wont get that in longer time neither…) You U.K. request this & that  ….and E.U. reply  can not all be done in that time frame …. we undemocratic E.U. must strange enough have consent of 27 governments …. We don't have a full sole powered ruler as the U.K. where now Boris has no opposition and can do what he likes …. in U.K. 

 

Only  he only rules in the U.K. with that full power …..not any meaning in E.U. 

 

Remember  Leave means leave 

 You mentioned the foot-dragging first. The EU is bluffing as usual. I won't be disappointed as long as we leave. 

[david555]

27 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 You mentioned the foot-dragging first. The EU is bluffing as usual. I won't be disappointed as long as we leave. 

yeah we where bluffing from 2016 ,all the way the same bluffing ….????And that is why you got all you wanted....???? the whole full package ????And end of month you are out …..and some way still in ......quit a leave wouldn't you say  ????

Edited January 13, 2020 by david555

[kingdong]

25 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That is the general idea. This EU circus tent is in tatters, the acts are dated and there is an entire herd of elephants in there.

Are you referring to the migrant crisis in the eu?

[kingdong]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

So funny, when everyone else has noticed that it's the EU doing the real foot-dragging now.

And I don,t think it's because they,'ll miss out company,just the Nelson Eddie's perhaps?

[david555]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

That is the general idea. This EU circus tent is in tatters, the acts are dated and there is an entire herd of elephants in there.

Yeah the E.U. is in tatters.....while U.K. do so well ???? 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2020/jan/13/flybe-rescue-talks-uk-government-gdp-growth-brexit-business-live

 

E.U. in tatters …. but I never heard something like this from my home country or any neighboring country ????          https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news

Edited January 13, 2020 by david555

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, david555 said:

Yeah the E.U. is in tatters.....while U.K. do so well ???? 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2020/jan/13/flybe-rescue-talks-uk-government-gdp-growth-brexit-business-live

 

E.U. in tatters …. but I never heard something like this from my home country or any neighboring country ????          https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news

Link  to headlines only. Wait for the same EU data.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

Are you referring to the migrant crisis in the eu?

No. What migrant crisis in the EU?

[david555]

51 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Link  to headlines only. Wait for the same EU data.

You where a bit late ,lol they change front page so quick with all those bad things lately   lol

here another for a smiley  5555  lol

What Boris go do now? The fisherman selling out  for helping his City friends …. difficult choice  …. I know ...Boris just go for ….WTO  like I said already time ago ….

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/13/city-access-eu-markets-eu-fleets-uk-fishing-rights-brexit

Daniel Boffey in Brussels

Mon 13 Jan 2020 13.46 GMT

 

EU trade chief foresees 'financial services for fishing' Brexit bargain

Commissioner says Europe will seek fishery access and UK will want concessions for City

The EU’s trade commissioner has suggested there could be a last-minute trade-off with Brussels offering the City of London access to European markets in return for European fleets retaining their fishing rights in British waters.

The UK’s financial services sector will lose its automatic right to serve Europe-based clients at the end of the transition period and the EU will need to negotiate access to UK waters for its fishing boats.

Phil Hogan, the former Irish minister who is now trade commissioner in Brussels overseeing the next stage of the Brexit negotiations, told the Irish Independent: “There certainly will be trade-offs, particularly at the end of the negotiations. The EU will be seeking concessions on fishery access and the UK will very probably be seeking concessions on financial services.”

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by david555

[Laughing Gravy]

11 hours ago, david555 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/13/brexit-irish-border-uk-northern-ireland

You ought to widen your horizons and reading material. I see that you consistently quote the Guardian. I assume that you know it is a left wing paper that wants the UK to break and stay in the EU. If you varied your sources it wouldn't look like you are left wing tree hugger yourself.

 

The credibility of the Guardian went out years ago. A bit like the Labour party.

[bannork]

49 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You ought to widen your horizons and reading material. I see that you consistently quote the Guardian. I assume that you know it is a left wing paper that wants the UK to break and stay in the EU. If you varied your sources it wouldn't look like you are left wing tree hugger yourself.

 

The credibility of the Guardian went out years ago. A bit like the Labour party.

You mean The Daily Express or Mail.

The financial services contribute 11% of the total UK tax revenue. If the EU bar the UK access to their financial markets it would be a massive blow to the UK.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

33 minutes ago, bannork said:

You mean The Daily Express or Mail.

The financial services contribute 11% of the total UK tax revenue. If the EU bar the UK access to their financial markets it would be a massive blow to the UK.

 

No put your glasses on. I said The Guardian as the poster consistently uses the Guardian as sources.

[bannork]

24 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

No put your glasses on. I said The Guardian as the poster consistently uses the Guardian as sources.

You misunderstand. I was suggesting 2 intellectual papers to read as an alternative to The Guardian.

[david555]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

You misunderstand. I was suggesting 2 intellectual papers to read as an alternative to The Guardian.

Oh i read indeed the Thorygraph.... especially the comments from their supporters..... they are really laughable..... the comments about E.U.'s treath's to stop the City  € passports handling & Fishery looks however pure panic....????

[david555]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

No put your glasses on. I said The Guardian as the poster consistently uses the Guardian as sources.

Oh i read indeed the Thorygraph.... especially the comments from their supporters..... they are really laughable..... the comments abouot E.U.'s treath's to stop the City  € passports handling & Fishery looks however as real panic comments ????

Edited January 14, 2020 by david555

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, david555 said:

You where a bit late ,lol they change front page so quick with all those bad things lately   lol

here another for a smiley  5555  lol

What Boris go do now? The fisherman selling out  for helping his City friends …. difficult choice  …. I know ...Boris just go for ….WTO  like I said already time ago ….

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/13/city-access-eu-markets-eu-fleets-uk-fishing-rights-brexit

Daniel Boffey in Brussels

Mon 13 Jan 2020 13.46 GMT

 

EU trade chief foresees 'financial services for fishing' Brexit bargain

Commissioner says Europe will seek fishery access and UK will want concessions for City

The EU’s trade commissioner has suggested there could be a last-minute trade-off with Brussels offering the City of London access to European markets in return for European fleets retaining their fishing rights in British waters.

The UK’s financial services sector will lose its automatic right to serve Europe-based clients at the end of the transition period and the EU will need to negotiate access to UK waters for its fishing boats.

Phil Hogan, the former Irish minister who is now trade commissioner in Brussels overseeing the next stage of the Brexit negotiations, told the Irish Independent: “There certainly will be trade-offs, particularly at the end of the negotiations. The EU will be seeking concessions on fishery access and the UK will very probably be seeking concessions on financial services.”

 

 

I do not have an auto-alert for your posts and even if I had one I would disable it. The EU is continuing to threaten but it will have to continue to use London's financial services, which it has no real substitute for. It would take many years for the EU to be able to compete with the City. 

[Laughing Gravy]

4 hours ago, david555 said:

Oh i read indeed the Thorygraph.... especially the comments from their supporters..... they are really laughable..... the comments abouot E.U.'s treath's to stop the City  € passports handling & Fishery looks however as real panic comments ????

You will be worried then, as the Dutch are not going to be allowed to rape the UK waters like they have done for so many years. Spain and a few others too.

 

You should try the Times. It is better than most, although it has been hijacked by the far left Luvvy brigade in the comments section. They would fit in here though.

[nauseus]

19 hours ago, david555 said:

yeah we where bluffing from 2016 ,all the way the same bluffing ….????And that is why you got all you wanted....???? the whole full package ????And end of month you are out …..and some way still in ......quit a leave wouldn't you say  ????

That is the essence of the EU..... one big bluff..... a very expensive and wasteful one too.

[david555]

So the Torygraph is preparing you to your independence in name and at the end of 2020 you should be free to walk by yourselves ...????but for now still a year under E.U. law & ECJ..., now I understand why BigBen shall not bong

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/will-brexit-transition-period-work/

• Asa Bennett

17 January 2020 • 9:08am

 

Brexit will happen from Jan 31 at 11pm, no matter whether Big Ben bongs or not. From that point, the United Kingdom will be legally outside of the European Union, but it may not feel much different from life as part of the club because it will be in a transition period for the rest of the year. 

Here is everything you might want to know about how this period of Brexit limbo, officially known by the Government as an "implementation period", will work.

 

more to guide you ...

Edited January 17, 2020 by david555