EU may need to extend deadline for trade talks with UK: von der Leyen

[evadgib]

21 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I would be delighted if the UK and EU could make that deal within a year.

But after reading lots of articles in lots of different publications it seems to be clear to me that it's impossible to get such a deal within one year. Sure, people will say they will try. But looking at reality best case they will be able to make some mini deal and continue from there.

I think almost everybody in the UK and EU wants that this capital is done as soon as possible. But let's stay realistic. And one year for everything is not realistic.

And about what Boris wants: Sure, it's something different what someone wants and what will happen. But at the beginning from any deal are ideas how this deal should realistically look like. So what is Boris realistic idea? The UK making all decisions independently and at the same time having full access to the EU is not realistic. So what does he want? How does his best case scenario for 2021 look like? And please a realistic scenario, not a dream.

This 'one year' malarky is actually 4 since the electorate told HMG to get on with it, furthermore both parties are starting from a position of parity & I would be most surprised if nothing whatsoever has been happening during the 3.5 years in which Bercow & the traitors in the last Parliament tried (and failed) to scupper the original decision.

 

Last month's P45s were well deserved.

Edited December 28, 2019 by evadgib

[Loiner]

3 hours ago, Letseng said:

Boris lied to the people, he did through the whole campaign. 

He never intended to spend all the money he said he would.

So long as Boris gets us out of the EU, I don't care what else he said in a campaign. He's got one job to do and with his majority and this time he can do that, without being hamstrung by a left leaning europhilic parliament.
Did you believe everything that Jezza told you about his spending plan?
 

[Dumbastheycome]

23 hours ago, Loiner said:

But Boris may not need to.

He does not want to, and does not have to. Time for the EU to face up to it: Boris now has the upper hand.  

Time  will tell. Boris  has  zilch just  now other than promises. Would there be support  for being shafted on principle? The  "EU" has  had the advantage of  evaluating  eventual outcomes of Brexit while the UK  has been  blinded to  any reality by the  internal conflict .

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I would be delighted if the UK and EU could make that deal within a year.

But after reading lots of articles in lots of different publications it seems to be clear to me that it's impossible to get such a deal within one year. Sure, people will say they will try. But looking at reality best case they will be able to make some mini deal and continue from there.

I think almost everybody in the UK and EU wants that this capital is done as soon as possible. But let's stay realistic. And one year for everything is not realistic.

And about what Boris wants: Sure, it's something different what someone wants and what will happen. But at the beginning from any deal are ideas how this deal should realistically look like. So what is Boris realistic idea? The UK making all decisions independently and at the same time having full access to the EU is not realistic. So what does he want? How does his best case scenario for 2021 look like? And please a realistic scenario, not a dream.

Realistically, who in their wildest dreams could have predicted his landslide victory, almost everyone was saying they thought there would be a huge possibility of a hung parliament, well the EU seems to have softened its stance now that Boris has secured his great win. 

It would be fair to say that Boris Johnsons position is now totally different than it was two weeks ago, he has room for manoeuvre and with that in mind the EU seems to be showing him more respect than they ever gave Mrs May, wow, even Mr Macron is now calling us friends, who'd have thought.

The only scenario anybody could possibly give you is that it looks very unlikely of the UK to ever ask for anymore extensions, suffice to say if after trading together for 40 odd years it would seem very strange not to come to some sort of an agreement by the end of the the year. It all depends how serious the EU are in wanting a deal, do they want a deal or do they just want to take our money every month.

And read as many books as you like, I would be surprised if the answer to how Brexit will pan out will be written on any pages of any book.

[OneMoreFarang]

26 minutes ago, evadgib said:

furthermore both parties are starting from a position of parity

That does not matter much - as pointed out all over the news.

The question is where the UK wants to go.

If the UK wants to stay aligned to the EU then that will make it easy - but then what was the point of Brexit?

 

It seem Boris wants that the UK will be very different from the EU in the future and not aligned to lot of EU rules. That is obviously perfectly alright. But that also means more difficult talks because lots of things will be different in the future which are not aligned. The trade talks will be about the future so they have to talk about what they want. What does Boris want except "get Brexit done"?

[Loiner]

6 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Time  will tell. Boris  has  zilch just  now other than promises. Would there be support  for being shafted on principle? The  "EU" has  had the advantage of  evaluating  eventual outcomes of Brexit while the UK  has been  blinded to  any reality by the  internal conflict .

Time is already telling us now. The Remainer Parliament was well and truly shafted by the GE popular vote. The principle was that we voted for Brexit in the referendum and still want our democratic right. The EU masters can see the writing on the wall and are now quaking in their EU boots. Their evaluations showed they would be disadvantaged, which is why they fought so hard against Brexit.

Faced with a Eurosceptic PM (not with zilch but a landslide majority), they are now looking for more tricks to try and keep clinging on to the UK's trade and 9Bn contribution. "Let's try an extension again, it worked for the past year or more."

[Dumbastheycome]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Time is already telling us now. The Remainer Parliament was well and truly shafted by the GE popular vote. The principle was that we voted for Brexit in the referendum and still want our democratic right. The EU masters can see the writing on the wall and are now quaking in their EU boots. Their evaluations showed they would be disadvantaged, which is why they fought so hard against Brexit.

Faced with a Eurosceptic PM (not with zilch but a landslide majority), they are now looking for more tricks to try and keep clinging on to the UK's trade and 9Bn contribution. "Let's try an extension again, it worked for the past year or more."

Ok. I have to accept  that is  your perspective. But as I  initially said IMO  only time will tell.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

It all depends how serious the EU are in wanting a deal

The EU can live perfectly without the little UK.

It would be nice for the EU if they continue trade with the UK but not at any price.

On the other hand what would the UK do with very reduced trade with the EU? USA? China? What's the plan? Is there a plan?

 

Why is it so difficult for some Brits to understand that the little UK is the little partner in this deal? The UK is not in the position to make demands. Or in other words: They can make these demands but why should the big EU accept any demands from that little country?

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU can live perfectly without the little UK.

It would be nice for the EU if they continue trade with the UK but not at any price.

On the other hand what would the UK do with very reduced trade with the EU? USA? China? What's the plan? Is there a plan?

 

Why is it so difficult for some Brits to understand that the little UK is the little partner in this deal? The UK is not in the position to make demands. Or in other words: They can make these demands but why should the big EU accept any demands from that little country?

 

Never over estimate what you have got in your hand, there are not many big players in the EU as you seem to think, but if that is your belief, I am sure you would be happy having a no deal from this "little country", this is the kind of attitude that led to the UK voting to leave, paying money so we can be insulted. Good luck with that!

 

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU can live perfectly without the little UK.

It would be nice for the EU if they continue trade with the UK but not at any price.

On the other hand what would the UK do with very reduced trade with the EU? USA? China? What's the plan? Is there a plan?

 

Why is it so difficult for some Brits to understand that the little UK is the little partner in this deal? The UK is not in the position to make demands. Or in other words: They can make these demands but why should the big EU accept any demands from that little country?

 

The EU cannot live perfectly with or without the "little" UK - that's because the EU is far from perfect itself. It is recently even further from perfection, as the UK is leaving, which means that eventually the second largest net contribution will vanish. If the EU was so perfect then we probably would not have voted to leave.

 

Italy has a huge debt problem, Greek debt is not resolved, Spain is close to a fracture, Macron is hated by his own people, the eastern countries are sticking their fingers up at Brussels and some large German banks are "ever closer" to popping.

 

A perfect recipe for a collapse if you ask me. That's why it's time for the EU to be nice with us for a change.

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU can live perfectly without the little UK.

It would be nice for the EU if they continue trade with the UK but not at any price.

On the other hand what would the UK do with very reduced trade with the EU? USA? China? What's the plan? Is there a plan?

 

Why is it so difficult for some Brits to understand that the little UK is the little partner in this deal? The UK is not in the position to make demands. Or in other words: They can make these demands but why should the big EU accept any demands from that little country?

 

Either you’re trolling or ill informed. I suspect the former. The U.K. is the 5th largest economy in the world.
 

The EU is up the creek without a paddle once we’ve left. Only 2 powerhouses left, but Germany is teetering on recession and France is in the middle of civil unrest. They’re pretty much fecked but it will take another decade to unfold by which time we’re long gone. History will show we timed our exit perfectly.

[samran]

25 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Either you’re trolling or ill informed. I suspect the former. The U.K. is the 5th largest economy in the world.
 

The EU is up the creek without a paddle once we’ve left. Only 2 powerhouses left, but Germany is teetering on recession and France is in the middle of civil unrest. They’re pretty much fecked but it will take another decade to unfold by which time we’re long gone. History will show we timed our exit perfectly.

There is a reason why it is a single market. Combined negotiating strength.

 

EU economy $19 trillion GDP and 20% of the world economy.

 

UK economy $2.5 trillion in GDP. 
 

So good luck with the ‘they need us more than we need them’ line fed to you. And good luck negotiating as the rounding error in that relationship...

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, samran said:

Oh dear, someone else who didn’t read what I wrote. 

A lot of Freds did and the cap fits. Wear it.

[samran]

12 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

A lot of Freds did and the cap fits. Wear it.

Go back and if you can be bothered and search the TV archives as to what my position on brexit actually is. Feel free to relay it back to everyone for me 

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, samran said:

Go back and if you can be bothered and search the TV archives as to what my position on brexit actually is. Feel free to relay it back to everyone for me 

I don't think anyone is bothered what your position is on Brexit is, when every one of your posts is lambasting the UK. Happy New Year.

[samran]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I don't think anyone is bothered what your position is on Brexit is, when every one of your posts is lambasting the UK. Happy New Year.

You seemed to care enough to respond. Not lambasting the UK at all, looking forward to the free movement Boris is going to offer me. I might buy a place there with the devalued pounds. 

[Opl]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Never over estimate what you have got in your hand, there are not many big players in the EU as you seem to think, but if that is your belief, I am sure you would be happy having a no deal from this "little country", this is the kind of attitude that led to the UK voting to leave, paying money so we can be insulted. Good luck with that!

 

BJ's deal could turn out to be a shortcut to a no-deal - no time lost with EU négociations and régulations - don't pay the divorce bill- then put in place the SoT scenario, Brexit done - period. Farewell and good luck.

Then eventually negociate specific issues later. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Opl

[Loiner]

53 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

A lot of Freds did and the cap fits. Wear it.

They don't like the Freds, those Remainers, elites, chattering classes, political commentators and know-it-alls, do they? They don't like Workington Man, or White Van Man, or anybody who does not vote the way they are 'supposed' to. It seems they also don't like anybody in a pub and apparently always have a special down on bar stools for some reason. They should try spending some time there and maybe learn at thing or two, at least like the mood of the nation.

 

They're all still here though, still on TVF trying the superiority pretence: "we know better than the rest of you little people". They must be all really pizzed that the very people they despise the most (previous LAB working class voters) have now affirmed a massive commitment for Brexit they voted for. This one is already trying to blame Fred for the incompetence of the bureaucrats and civil servants who now have to carry out instructions they really detest doing - the best deal for the UK. Even still trying to pin blame on Fred for a Project Fear jobs loss myth which is never going to happen, unless he's talking about EU jobs! 

Thank god for the Freds of this world, and everybody in pubs and on bar stools everywhere.

[samran]

29 minutes ago, Loiner said:

They don't like the Freds, those Remainers, elites, chattering classes, political commentators and know-it-alls, do they? They don't like Workington Man, or White Van Man, or anybody who does not vote the way they are 'supposed' to. It seems they also don't like anybody in a pub and apparently always have a special down on bar stools for some reason. They should try spending some time there and maybe learn at thing or two, at least like the mood of the nation.

 

They're all still here though, still on TVF trying the superiority pretence: "we know better than the rest of you little people". They must be all really pizzed that the very people they despise the most (previous LAB working class voters) have now affirmed a massive commitment for Brexit they voted for. This one is already trying to blame Fred for the incompetence of the bureaucrats and civil servants who now have to carry out instructions they really detest doing - the best deal for the UK. Even still trying to pin blame on Fred for a Project Fear jobs loss myth which is never going to happen, unless he's talking about EU jobs! 

Thank god for the Freds of this world, and everybody in pubs and on bar stools everywhere.

Ah, we have a ‘salt of the earth‘ poster here. A real Brit. Are you one of those people who have your Facebook profiles stating that you attended the ‘school of hard knocks’ and the ‘university of life’ too?
 

This ‘one’ would be more than happy for Fred to negotiate the new free trade deal with the EU. But you are going to leave it to Boris and his chums, they aren’t going to be looking out for you. 

 

My only observation is that 11 months ain’t enough (see see, I used an every mans word!!!) to build a comprehensive negotiation position and be able to prioritize your trade must haves vs the ones you are happy to negotiate away. 
 

But that one little observation seems to have gotten you and your other Everyman mates backs up. It’s like I’m pointing out you don’t have a clear plan or something and are offended by it!
 

But you seem to be happy to sell out the small business people who are going to be most affected by all the new regulatory compliance that comes from being on the outside p!ssing in trade wise. Not me. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by samran

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Either you’re trolling or ill informed. I suspect the former. The U.K. is the 5th largest economy in the world.

Was... but going down

All recent results show than India is now 5th

and depending of sources and exchange rates, France may now 6th...

 

 

[Loiner]

28 minutes ago, samran said:

Ah, we have a ‘salt of the earth‘ poster here. A real Brit. Are you one of those people who have your Facebook profiles stating that you attended the ‘school of hard knocks’ and the ‘university of life’ too?
 

This ‘one’ would be more than happy for Fred to negotiate the new free trade deal with the EU. But you are going to leave it to Boris and his chums, they aren’t going to be looking out for you. 

 

My only observation is that 11 months ain’t enough (see see, I used an every mans word!!!) to build a comprehensive negotiation position and be able to prioritize your trade must haves vs the ones you are happy to negotiate away. 
 

But that one little observation seems to have gotten you and your other Everyman mates backs up. It’s like I’m pointing out you don’t have a clear plan or something and are offended by it!
 

But you seem to be happy to sell out the small business people who are going to be most affected by all the new regulatory compliance that comes from being on the outside p!ssing in trade wise. Not me. 

More "I know more about trade deals than the rest of you." drivel from another ardent Remainer and UK naysayer. The overdose of sour grapes must be giving you some serious indigestion mate, tarnishing that silver spoon in your mouth and making you irritable. Love it.

They (both the UK and EU) have had three years to sort out the deals. That some of them didn't manage to stop Brexit and thought they had no reason to formulate any deals means nothing. The real bureaucrats have all been making their Plan B provisions since it became obvious that Brexit was not going to easily slip away. Some parts of the UK civil service were making real Brexit plans for the past two years, even if originally on a 'just in case' basis. Do you seriously believe your own eu-drama-queen claims of no plan, no time and impossibility, just because you don't want there to be none? 

 

New regulatory compliance? It will only replace the old regulatory compliance, one day, maybe, if we change our current conformity, or in case of a No Deal. And selling out small business? Well he's another Fred, who will be glad to see the back of EU regulations which have crippled him for years, whether he exports to EU or not. 

 

Why not go to the pub, sit on a stool and ask a few Freds. They will put a foreign windbag on the right track about what's best for them.

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, samran said:

Go back and if you can be bothered and search the TV archives as to what my position on brexit actually is. Feel free to relay it back to everyone for me 

If anybody's confused about your Brexit position, you only have yourself to blame. But fess up anyway, if it will make you feel better.

[Pattaya46]

7 minutes ago, Loiner said:

They (both the UK and EU) have had three years to sort out the deals. That some of them didn't manage to stop Brexit and thought they had no reason to formulate any deals means nothing. The real bureaucrats have all been making their Plan B provisions since it became obvious that Brexit was not going to easily slip away. Some parts of the UK civil service were making real Brexit plans for the past two years, even if originally on a 'just in case' basis

I really doubt about that. Most resources were focused on the Withdrawal Agreement, and there was no point for EU in trying to work on a trade deal when it didn't know what kind of deal the UK would want.

Problem is that today nobody knows more on what UK wants... 

[samran]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

I really doubt about that. Most resources were focused on the Withdrawal Agreement, and there was no point for EU in trying to work on a trade deal when it didn't know what kind of deal the UK would want.

Problem is that today nobody knows more on what UK wants... 

apparently Loiner does...

[samran]

29 minutes ago, Loiner said:

More "I know more about trade deals than the rest of you." drivel from another ardent Remainer and UK naysayer. The overdose of sour grapes must be giving you some serious indigestion mate, tarnishing that silver spoon in your mouth and making you irritable. Love it.

They (both the UK and EU) have had three years to sort out the deals. That some of them didn't manage to stop Brexit and thought they had no reason to formulate any deals means nothing. The real bureaucrats have all been making their Plan B provisions since it became obvious that Brexit was not going to easily slip away. Some parts of the UK civil service were making real Brexit plans for the past two years, even if originally on a 'just in case' basis. Do you seriously believe your own eu-drama-queen claims of no plan, no time and impossibility, just because you don't want there to be none? 

 

New regulatory compliance? It will only replace the old regulatory compliance, one day, maybe, if we change our current conformity, or in case of a No Deal. And selling out small business? Well he's another Fred, who will be glad to see the back of EU regulations which have crippled him for years, whether he exports to EU or not. 

 

Why not go to the pub, sit on a stool and ask a few Freds. They will put a foreign windbag on the right track about what's best for them.

Ah yes, England’s finest - against the nasty foreigner. 
 

 Will they chanting ‘one World Cup and two world wars, do dah’ for good measure? 

So looks like you have issues reading through your red rage of the uppity foreigner coming to comment. (Ed: what a shock you have issues with foreigners...).

 

I didn’t say anything about EUs state of preparedness. I said the Uk wasn’t prepared. So your precious ‘what is best for the UK’ BS has no chance of happening. And even if the EU aren’t prepared, do you think they are going to rush into negotiations with the Uk?

 

So tell me, what is your plan? Three word slogans aren’t allowed.

Edited December 28, 2019 by samran

[samran]

16 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

If anybody's confused about your Brexit position, you only have yourself to blame. But fess up anyway, if it will make you feel better.

I’m all for Brexit. Bring it on. All upside for me...

[JonnyF]

5 hours ago, samran said:

I’m all for Brexit. Bring it on. All upside for me...

Did a Brit steal your wife or something? So much hate and bitterness towards the U.K. Quite sad really.

Edited December 28, 2019 by JonnyF

[Laughing Gravy]

14 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I just read this interesting article from a veteran Conservative MP:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/22/boris-johnson-told-to-stop-campaigning-and-start-governing-ken-clarke-brexit

 

Boris Johnson should 'stop campaigning and start governing', says Ken Clarke

Ken Clarke criticises PM for having no detailed plans for Brexit or social care

 

 

 

 

As you have very limited knowledge and understanding of the UK and the people wishes it is not surprising that you pull an article from the Guardian and from Ken Clarke of all people, the ultimate remainer. You both have that in common.

 

You snide jibes of little UK are pathetic and obviously you are not from the UK. I would love you to mention that in the UK and see what happens. I can tell you that you would be eating from a straw and deservedly so.

[OneMoreFarang]

12 hours ago, vogie said:

Never over estimate what you have got in your hand, there are not many big players in the EU as you seem to think, but if that is your belief, I am sure you would be happy having a no deal from this "little country", this is the kind of attitude that led to the UK voting to leave, paying money so we can be insulted. Good luck with that!

 

Look at the numbers or just look at a map and compare the size. That should give you an idea about proportions and who is the BIG player and who is the little one. It helps to be realistic sometimes.

[OneMoreFarang]

43 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

As you have very limited knowledge and understanding of the UK and the people wishes it is not surprising that you pull an article from the Guardian and from Ken Clarke of all people, the ultimate remainer. You both have that in common.

 

You snide jibes of little UK are pathetic and obviously you are not from the UK. I would love you to mention that in the UK and see what happens. I can tell you that you would be eating from a straw and deservedly so.

That seems to be one of the problem from some of those people in the UK. If the facts are not on your side and you know you can't win with words then you think it's time to punch someone.

I have a couple of friends in Thailand who are from the UK and they all agree with my point of view.

Maybe more of you should read The Guardian and learn from it. Then you would be better informed about your own country.