Thai navy SEAL who took part in cave rescue dies after year-long infection

[Traubert]

Can you people take your squabble to the bar please?

 

Thank you.

[freestyle]

This topic is starting to look like a cock fight ????

 

Meanwhile, i hope this honorable man will rest in peace.
It's incredibly sad to see when lives are taken for the saving of other lives.

Edited December 28, 2019 by freestyle

[madmen]

12 hours ago, justin case said:

let me guess.... fungus in the caves and thai doctor gave antibiotics, which of course, does not "cure" or kill the fungus in the lungs

 

and still they want these caves open for business

And the Thai bashing starts at post number 4 and absolutely Verify's Thailand attracts the scum of the world. People die in first world from all manor of hospital born infections..start with sepsis and keep googling

 

RIP HERO

[DrTuner]

10 hours ago, ezzra said:

Not belittling, his contributions, achievements and his courage to the rescue but the man was a navy seal and that's what navy seals do, put their lives on the line whenever they are called to do so, so to hail anyone a hero for doing their job which they trained and are there for to do, might be diluting the aura of the real heros, those who risk life and limbs when they didn't had to, and were comple to do it just because it was the right thing to do at the worst of times...

The cave thing was a touchy issue for TVF folks from the beginning. Some saw it as a second coming of christ. That somebody has a hazardous job which unfortunately in this case lead to death is not accepted as normal, it must be a hero because, you know, cave, world peace and all that. Firemen, police, rescue workers risk their lives every single day without the public ever so much as giving a second thought to it. But enter The Cave, suddenly it's different.

[tifino]

10 hours ago, xylophone said:

13 hours ago, justin case said:

let me guess.... fungus in the caves and thai doctor gave antibiotics, which of course, does not "cure" or kill the fungus in the lungs

 

and still they want these caves open for business

As your answer was just speculation, is there any news of exactly what the infection was??

 

Just curious.

anyway that it was really a blood infection, means you can simply ignore tangental theories that have alrready been shown false.  

 

For the blood infection; this eventually develops after the initial incubation period has passed... in the order of up to about 11 days. 

 

Initially absorbed through the skin.

 An early post-incubation, outward sign (visible) is the pinkish tender skin swelling. Inwardly you do quickly feel like cr*p. 

It is pretty quick to envelop the victim, as once that Incubation has completed, it would have only taken a halfhour to an hour; 

 -  the fellow would have changed from being top of the world, to someone not capable of lifting a shovel to dig a hole to lie in.

This genre of condition is a horrid thing to endure. 

 

I went through similar early last year, and was lucky to have the right Hospital Emergency assistance within hours of the Incubation completion, and hitting me. (and the foresight to seek that attention quickly by recognising it)

 Even still, I had 4 months of slow eventual assisted recovery.   

 

There is a lot of similarity, with Golden Staph strain. 

 

The beginning with the Absorption via the skin;

then the blood infection;

then the eventual shutdown of the various internal organs

 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by tifino

[ParkerN]

10 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

So we should just take them for granted, right. 

 

Not as far as I'm concerned, but it's a technique for argumentatives to defend their (sometimes otherwise dubious) position by proposing an extreme. It's a form of straw man and I wish I didn't have to see it used because it's demeaning to have to use it. No credit accrues.

[Basil B]

Am I not right in thinking that the Thai military have access to some of the best medical facilities in Thailand?

 

And Thailand is not a third world country as some posters portray it to be?

 

 

[bannork]

6 hours ago, DrTuner said:

The cave thing was a touchy issue for TVF folks from the beginning. Some saw it as a second coming of christ. That somebody has a hazardous job which unfortunately in this case lead to death is not accepted as normal, it must be a hero because, you know, cave, world peace and all that. Firemen, police, rescue workers risk their lives every single day without the public ever so much as giving a second thought to it. But enter The Cave, suddenly it's different.

The story really caught the public's imagination because, firstly, it seemed highly improbable the boys could survive 9 days stuck in the cave, and secondly, getting them all out alive was an extraordinary act by the divers.

[ashkale]

Something was odd about this and those chilean miners and now this blood infection.

Not sure what came up.

[RJRS1301]

19 hours ago, ezzra said:

Not belittling, his contributions, achievements and his courage to the rescue but the man was a navy seal and that's what navy seals do, put their lives on the line whenever they are called to do so, so to hail anyone a hero for doing their job which they trained and are there for to do, might be diluting the aura of the real heros, those who risk life and limbs when they didn't had to, and were comple to do it just because it was the right thing to do at the worst of times...

He still risked life and limb, as they all did, whether it was his job is irrelevant.

He died from an infection not "battle wounds" as such. Unexpected consequence of his actions to assist in recuing others.

 

May his family find peace because of his efforts.

 

[firefox999uk]

12 hours ago, DrTuner said:

The cave thing was a touchy issue for TVF folks from the beginning. Some saw it as a second coming of christ. That somebody has a hazardous job which unfortunately in this case lead to death is not accepted as normal, it must be a hero because, you know, cave, world peace and all that. Firemen, police, rescue workers risk their lives every single day without the public ever so much as giving a second thought to it. But enter The Cave, suddenly it's different.

I was a Fireman for 32 Years......I did not think i was a hero, I just did the job i was trained to do.

 

When a man becomes a fireman his greatest act of bravery has been accomplished.

What he does after that is all in the line of work. ~Edward F. Croker

 

RIP to the Navy Seal

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, Basil B said:

Am I not right in thinking that the Thai military have access to some of the best medical facilities in Thailand?

 

And Thailand is not a third world country as some posters portray it to be?

 

 

Correct on both points.

 

There are dedicated Naval hospitals of good quality.

 

Unlikely he did not get good medical care.

 

As no details on cause of death are available (beyond sepsis, but sepsis from what etc unknown) there is no point in further speculation at this point.

[Isaanbiker]

Very sad news, indeed. I know that you need a very good Microbiologist to heal such an illness. 

 

   RIP, soldier. You've done a good job. 

[hobz]

22 hours ago, perconrad said:

It could be this:

 

https://www.melioidosis.info/infobox.aspx?pageID=101

 

https://www.cdc.gov/melioidosis/index.html

 

My wife's granddaughter of 3 years have just come home from hospital treated for it.

She have been in hospital more times the last half year while they could not make her well again, she coughed very much especially in nights, had fever often, lost weight and was not well overall. But the last time in hospital they tested her blood and sputum for this bacteria and only the blood test came out positive and she got the appropriate treatment for 2 weeks and now she is home again and well.

I doubt it as that one is treatable according to the CDC link you sent.

[ParkerN]

15 hours ago, freestyle said:

This topic is starting to look like a cock fight ????

 

Meanwhile, i hope this honorable man will rest in peace.
It's incredibly sad to see when lives are taken for the saving of other lives.

How do you know he was an honourable man? Because of the dogwhistle posts? or because you, like others, want to be seen saying the right thing for others to read and notice? Too many gullible folk around, way too many. And too many foreigners who think Thais will thank them for kissing their bottoms. They won't.

 

Ever been had?

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by ParkerN

[from the home of CC]

On 12/28/2019 at 10:03 AM, IraqRon said:

And no one in your home country ever dies of infections??  In America alone thousands die each year from infections, many of which are contracted in hospitals and are under treatment when expiring.  Why try to bash everything that Thais do??

imo - a majority of the Thai bashers have by their own stupidity put themselves in a bad spot financially and/or emotionally (failed relationship). Then instead of licking the wounds and carrying on they become incessant complainers always blaming someone else for their own failings and shortcomings.. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by from the home of CC

[ParkerN]

2 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

imo - a majority of the Thai bashers have by their own stupidity put themselves in a bad spot financially and/or emotionally (failed relationship). Then instead of licking the wounds and carrying on they become incessant complainers always blaming someone else for their own failings and shortcomings.. 

You should be a psychotherapist. Maybe a lot of people could learn from your example of success. Superficiality is never a reason for remaining silent.

 

Sadly.

Edited December 29, 2019 by ParkerN

[richard_smith237]

On 12/28/2019 at 7:38 AM, josephbloggs said:

There's a time and a place. Let him go and make a new thread about lung infections and Thai doctors if it is a subject he knows so much about and is so passionate about. But we know it isn't and he isn't, it was just a baseless Thai bash in a totally insensitive place. 

 

A thread about a man who selflessly put his life in danger to help others and paid the ultimate price is not the place to do it. It is utterly disrespectful. 

 

Not only that he is making assumptions that have no basis whatsoever - he "guessed" the Thai doctors just gave him antibiotics for a lung infection caused by fungus in the cave. So it's ok to just make things up to criticise now is it? 

 

Edit: and his view isn't as valid. His view was a "guess" based on no evidence. Does he know it was a lung infection caused by fungus in the caves? And does he know what treatment the poor guy received or how he was diagnosed? If he does then his view is valid. If he doesn't then it isn't. Simple. 

So who makes the rules regarding which facet of this thread we are allowed to discuss on this, a discussion designed specifically for discussion ?????

 

RIP to the deceased, yes. But a valid point has been raised regarding the possibility of a Fungus being present in the caves and the potential cause of further illness which may not have been adequately treated - supposition? yes, accurate? unlikely. But, it certainly gives pause for thought regarding a couple of potential issues:

a) Is it safe for a our respiratory systems when visiting these humid subterranean cave systems? 

b) We should all be extremely careful with diagnoses and misdiagnoses in Thailand, especially in a system with almost no legal accountability.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by richard_smith237

[ParkerN]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

So who makes the rules regarding which facet of this thread we are allowed to discuss on this, a discussion designed specifically for discussion ?????

 

RIP to the deceased, yes. But a valid point has been raised regarding the possibility of a Fungus being present in the caves and the potential cause of further illness which may not have been adequately treated - supposition? yes, accurate? unlikely. But, it certainly gives pause for thought regarding a couple of potential issues:

a) Is it safe for a our respiratory systems when visiting these humid subterranean cave systems? 

b) We should all be extremely careful with diagnoses and misdiagnoses in Thailand, especially in a system with almost no legal accountability.

 

 

 

Fully agree. FWIW fungus is a widely unrecognised problem in Thailand, and yes, I agree with the person who said that Thai doctors are a bit naff.

 

We should indeed be wary of medical diagnosis in Thailand.

 

Something that makes me shudder is the number of people who come forward saying this guy was a hero, an honorable man, despite probably never having met him. The reality is likely to be far different and these folk usually do it to appeal to their peers and to show they aren't racist or otherwise bigoted. Which usually means they are trying to suppress exactly those responses - usually because someone in authority has told them so after they themselves were told. I wish we could just be sad that a life has been lost and leave it at that without trying to make people think you're the secretary of a fan club for the guy.

 

I watched from afar as the original threads relating to the footballers in a cave were running. That really brought them out, they were lying 2 or 3 deep on the floor, desperate for Thais to love them. It didn't work, it was never going to work; Thais do not love foreigners, we're all just grist for the mill.

 

Life's a constant 3-ring circus. Personally I choose to watch and not try to run around and impress people But hey, that's just me and my choices, not for everyone.

 

 

[dcnx]

The guy is a textbook example of a hero. RIP.

 

I hope the boys and their coach pay respect to the man and his family with the deepest and most sincere wai they can give. He gave his life for them. May they never forget that.

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

We should all be extremely careful with diagnoses and misdiagnoses in Thailand, especially in a system with almost no legal accountability.

I was told I had cancer about ten years ago. I didn’t. Not even sure how they can screw that up. Most of my encounters with doctors here have been a sh*t show. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by dcnx

[dcnx]

4 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

imo - a majority of the Thai bashers have by their own stupidity put themselves in a bad spot financially and/or emotionally (failed relationship). Then instead of licking the wounds and carrying on they become incessant complainers always blaming someone else for their own failings and shortcomings.. 

Or they are smarter than a primate and the ignorance has finally worn them down. 
 

I’m more concerned about the people who don’t get irritated by their ignorance. Life standards must be pretty low.

[jayboy]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Correct on both points.

 

There are dedicated Naval hospitals of good quality.

 

Unlikely he did not get good medical care.

 

As no details on cause of death are available (beyond sepsis, but sepsis from what etc unknown) there is no point in further speculation at this point.

Excellent point as one would expect from Sheryl.When I read the newspaper account I felt the details were hopelessly vague.No explanation at all was given of the "blood infection" or how it was contracted.If the site was dangerous in this way why haven't others been contacted and tested? There are a myriad of other unanswered questions.

 

I conclude that the confusion is due to shoddy journalism.It's not Thai bashing to point out this is generally dreadful.

 

As to Thai medical capability, it is excellent - world class in my view at the upper level.I have personal experience to vouch for this.And as Sheryl points out the armed services look after their own very well in Thailand.

[ParkerN]

29 minutes ago, dcnx said:

The guy is a textbook example of a hero. RIP.

 

I hope the boys and their coach pay respect to the man and his family with the deepest and most sincere wai they can give. He gave his life for them. May they never forget that.

Giving one's life only has merit if it is done by choice. Now I don't kow this man, never met him so unlike many, I'm not going to pronounce him a hero or anything else.

 

If he had a choice to die or not to die, I'll bet he would have chosen not to.

 

Hardly heroic, once you strip away the veneer we choose to decorate out heroes with. Most of them just aren't, despite the motivations we allege they felt.

 

We all tend to construct our reality to suit ourselves - and to make us feel good. And our dreams to be peopled with heroes and worthies that allow us to feel good by association. People in general aren't like that at all, but if we dwell on that we might feel disconsolate or depressed. Personally I prefer to live in the real worlds. Heroes are sadly in much shorter supply in the real world, but the imagined world is full of rose-coloured glasses so we can see what we choose to see.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by ParkerN

[Sheryl]

Without any details we cannot assume the death was related to the cave rescue. 

 

But what we do know is he took part in a very difficult and valiant effort that was known to be very risky in the immediate term (and indeed claimed one rescuer's life) and was well above and beyond the normal tasks of a Seal. I am not 100% sure but I think among the Seals it may have been a volunteer basis to go into that cave. 

 

He and all the people involved deserve great credit  for that rescue and the exhausting effort and great risks it entailed.  I don't undestand why anyone would feel a need to begrudge that.

 

Whether it contributed to his death now, we don't know.

[ParkerN]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Without any details we cannot assume the death was related to the cave rescue. 

 

But what we do know is he took part in a very difficult anf valiant effort that was known to be very risky in the immediate term (and indeed claimed onr rescuer's life) and was well above and beyond the normal tasks of a Seal. I am not 100% sure but I think among the Seals it may have been a volunteer basis to go into that cave. 

 

He and all the people involved deserve great credit  for that rescue and the exhausting effort and great risks it entailed.  I don't undestand why anyone would feel a need to begrudge that.

 

Whethet it contributed to his death now, we don't know.

 

Indeed we don't know, you're right. And neither do we know if he volunteered or was ordered or was under some other emotional obligation; something Thais are pretty good at doing to other people.

 

We just don't know and we shouldn't speculate when such speculation is generally only to suit ourselves, which is generally the case, and according to my reading, is the case with most of the indignant posters, who are mainly indignant because others don't see things the same way they do.

 

Harsh? Maybe. True? Yes.

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by ParkerN

[ParkerN]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Without any details we cannot assume the death was related to the cave rescue. 

 

But what we do know is he took part in a very difficult anf valiant effort that was known to be very risky in the immediate term (and indeed claimed onr rescuer's life) and was well above and beyond the normal tasks of a Seal. I am not 100% sure but I think among the Seals it may have been a volunteer basis to go into that cave. 

 

He and all the people involved deserve great credit  for that rescue and the exhausting effort and great risks it entailed.  I don't undestand why anyone would feel a need to begrudge that.

 

Whethet it contributed to his death now, we don't know.

You confuse Thai Seals with the USA Navy Seals who the Thais were trying very hard to imitate and who wanted you to confuse them, Well done, you fell into their schoolboy trap.. You should not try to ascribe more than you know about either.

 

The people who went spelunking after an extremely foolish and typically Thai adventure were indeed brave and I do not begrudge them that praise. I would not have done it - no way, but then I was convinced the football team and it's negligent coach were history anyway.

 

I've said my piece, the sycophants can continue saying the guy was a hero and an honorable man and an all-round good egg and invoke the usual superstitious mumbo-jumbo - all without ever even having met the man. I'll continue to have my opinion. Some will share it, some won't, either way, I don't really care. Over and out.

Edited December 29, 2019 by ParkerN

[dcnx]

8 hours ago, ParkerN said:

Giving one's life only has merit if it is done by choice. Now I don't kow this man, never met him so unlike many, I'm not going to pronounce him a hero or anything else.

 

If he had a choice to die or not to die, I'll bet he would have chosen not to.

 

Hardly heroic, once you strip away the veneer we choose to decorate out heroes with. Most of them just aren't, despite the motivations we allege they felt.

 

We all tend to construct our reality to suit ourselves - and to make us feel good. And our dreams to be peopled with heroes and worthies that allow us to feel good by association. People in general aren't like that at all, but if we dwell on that we might feel disconsolate or depressed. Personally I prefer to live in the real worlds. Heroes are sadly in much shorter supply in the real world, but the imagined world is full of rose-coloured glasses so we can see what we choose to see.

 

 

 

 

He’s not a hero because he’s dead, he’s a hero for going in the dangerous cave in the first place. Did you see the videos? That was incredibly sketchy and a tight fit. Terrifying really.
 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by dcnx

[Brightly]

Of course we can’t know if this Navy Seal’s fatal sepsis was directly caused by his courageous rescue efforts.

 

Personally, I assume it was related, but even if it wasn’t...

 

He was a hero, and he has died.

 

Let’s all show proper respect for the man who risked his life for the lives of others.

 

Let’s save all the snark and sideshows for another day and another post, shall we?

 

RIP Beirut Pakbara.

May you never be forgotten.

[RJRS1301]

Perhaps it may assit if some of you listen to this podcast from a person who was actually there, reminding how dangerous it actually was for everyone involved.

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/richard-harris-cave-rescue/11737228