15 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

 

Johnson lying again.

There was NO personal promise of any kind regarding another referendum.

 

Indeed the Smith Commission states in para 18 "It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.".

 

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20151202171029/http://www.smith-commission.scot/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/The_Smith_Commission_Report-1.pdf 

 

Fluffy Mundell. The former Governor General for Scotland also stated

"Of course there could be another referendum, that is a process issue.

"But the people of Scotland are very clear that they don't want one and that's what we need to continue to debate about."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38872823

 

So Johnson is lying again. Which is expected.

The reason we needed Johnson to refuse another section 30 is because it is going to end up in court. If Johnson had not already refused then the first thing the courts would have done is say well you need to go and find out.

Now the process can move on.

8 hours ago, englishoak said:

Perhaps now every UK thread wont be hijacked by hopeful whining Scots.. but somehow I doubt it 

If you don't like it, don't comment on it. These threads are for debate - if the topic was not of interest, nobody would discuss it. It really isn't that difficult a concept to grasp, is it?

I wonder how long Johnson thinks he can maintain his head-in-the-sand approach.

 

 

Edited January 15, 20206 yr by RuamRudy

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I wonder how long Johnson thinks he can maintain his head-in-the-sand approach.

 

 

From that plot it looks like Krankie is the one with her head stuck somewhere. 

Now, the perfect opportunity for us all to show where our true loyalties lie - anyone planning to 'bung a bob for a Big Ben bong'? 

 

Johnson proposes crowdfunding to allow Big Ben to bong for Brexit

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Now, the perfect opportunity for us all to show where our true loyalties lie - anyone planning to 'bung a bob for a Big Ben bong'? 

 

Johnson proposes crowdfunding to allow Big Ben to bong for Brexit

I will if you will.

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

I will if you will.

But I think you already know just how loyal I am to the furtherance of the UK...

47 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Now, the perfect opportunity for us all to show where our true loyalties lie - anyone planning to 'bung a bob for a Big Ben bong'? 

 

Johnson proposes crowdfunding to allow Big Ben to bong for Brexit

Francois & Co would do it for nowt using Brecow as a battering ram. Alternatively Farage could do it with a 14lbs sledge...

Edited January 15, 20206 yr by evadgib

Just now, evadgib said:

Francois & Co would do it for nowt using Brecow as a battering ram. Alternatively Farage could do it with a 14lbs sledge...

Farage wouldn't know which end to hold.

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Now that Bojo has made a formal rejection his interpretation can be challenged.

 

The legitimacy of a second referendum was originally supported by David Mundell while Secretary of State for Scotland in the Cameron Cabinet. On June 26 2016, he said: "If the people of Scotland ultimately determine that they want to have another [independence] referendum there will be one.”

He added: "Could there be another referendum? The answer to that question is yes. Should there be another referendum? I believe the answer to that question is no." These remarks were made on the BBC’s Sunday Morning Politics show and subsequently widely reported in the UK press. Clearly at that point, the Secretary of State’s advice was that there was no “lifetime” or generational block on a second referendum.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18159096.fact-check-claim-snp-vowed-indyref-once-lifetime-opportunity/

There was never a lifetime or any other kind of block.There was a general view it was a once in a generation matter, but it's true this has been overtaken by events.I don't know why some keep harping on about this pointlessly.It reminds me of Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

 

As to the current position, Sturgeon knows she has time on her side.Whatever Johnson says now if the Holyrood 2021 elections are fought on a referendum basis and the SNP further improves its position, I don't see how Boris can resist agreeing.Timing is critical.Actually though the SNP are loudly demanding a referendum now, they don't actually want it quite yet because they would almost certainly lose it. There's also the need for the impact of sex pest Alex Salmond's trial to blow over.But by 2021 with Brexit perhaps looking a bit <deleted> and assuming no further significant incompetence by the Scottish Government (big if - that one), I can certainly imagine the referendum being won.

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Farage wouldn't know which end to hold.

Despite single handedly achieving his life's quest?

7 minutes ago, jayboy said:

There was never a lifetime or any other kind of block.There was a general view it was a once in a generation matter, but it's true this has been overtaken by events.I don't know why some keep harping on about this pointlessly.It reminds me of Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

 

As to the current position, Sturgeon knows she has time on her side.Whatever Johnson says now if the Holyrood 2021 elections are fought on a referendum basis and the SNP further improves its position, I don't see how Boris can resist agreeing.Timing is critical.Actually though the SNP are loudly demanding a referendum now, they don't actually want it quite yet because they would almost certainly lose it. There's also the need for the impact of sex pest Alex Salmond's trial to blow over.But by 2021 with Brexit perhaps looking a bit <deleted> and assuming no further significant incompetence by the Scottish Government (big if - that one), I can certainly imagine the referendum being won.

You would be out by Easter if the entire Kingdom were polled. SNP know this which is why they haven't done it.

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I wonder how long Johnson thinks he can maintain his head-in-the-sand approach.

 

 

Doesn't this graph prove that more Scots wish to remain, or am I missing something.

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Now, the perfect opportunity for us all to show where our true loyalties lie - anyone planning to 'bung a bob for a Big Ben bong'? 

 

Johnson proposes crowdfunding to allow Big Ben to bong for Brexit

It seems the sore losers are doing their best to stop the winners having their celebration. It won't work though, there's gonna be one hell of a party whether they like it or not. 

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It seems the sore losers are doing their best to stop the winners having their celebration. It won't work though, there's gonna be one hell of a party whether they like it or not. 

How do you work that out? The PM, in conjunction with TimeLife, is offering this once in a generation opportunity to be part of history. Go on, dig deep for a big ben bong!

15 minutes ago, vogie said:

Doesn't this graph prove that more Scots wish to remain, or am I missing something.

You can interpret it myriad ways, I suppose, but it shows, to me, a relatively continuous growth in support for independence over the past 2 1/2 years, and all this without a referendum campaign underway.

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

How do you work that out? The PM, in conjunction with TimeLife, is offering this once in a generation opportunity to be part of history. Go on, dig deep for a big ben bong!

No need, Lord Bamford has already agreed to underwrite it. Thanks for the offer though. 

 

I'm guessing they'll still try and stop it though, still salty at defeat after defeat after defeat. They really should just allow the celebrations, if they don't want to join they can stay home, wrap themselves in the EU 'flag' and cry into their Lentil soup.????

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

You can interpret it myriad ways, I suppose, but it shows, to me, a relatively continuous growth in support for independence over the past 2 1/2 years, and all this without a referendum campaign underway.

It shows me there was only one month in the last 2.5 years when the vote to Leave was greater than the vote to remain in the UK. This is also backed up by the fact that 55% of Scots voting for parties that support remaining in the UK in the General Election last month.

 

The only way you'll get the result you want is to let the whole of the UK vote. Then you'll be out the door before your feet touch the ground. 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

No need, Lord Bamford has already agreed to underwrite it. Thanks for the offer though. 

 

I'm guessing they'll still try and stop it though, still salty at defeat after defeat after defeat. They really should just allow the celebrations, if they don't want to join they can stay home, wrap themselves in the EU 'flag' and cry into their Lentil soup.????

Nothing like the will of the people being underwritten by a ennobled billionaire tax avoider. That swamp is looking drier by the day (Zac Goldsnith and Nicky Morgan aside of course). 

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Nothing like the will of the people being underwritten by a ennobled billionaire tax avoider. That swamp is looking drier by the day (Zac Goldsnith and Nicky Morgan aside of course). 

Plenty of billionaires on both sides.

 

The swamp was drained last month, hence the withdrawal bill passing by 330 votes to 231. Most of the anti democrats are picking up their P45's as we speak.

 

 

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Plenty of billionaires on both sides.

 

The swamp was drained last month, hence the withdrawal bill passing by 330 votes to 231. Most of the anti democrats are picking up their P45's as we speak.

 

 

Most Brits want to remain in the EU.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-remain-eu-boris-johnson-leave-bmg-poll-a9279996.html

47 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

You can interpret it myriad ways, I suppose, but it shows, to me, a relatively continuous growth in support for independence over the past 2 1/2 years, and all this without a referendum campaign underway.

I hate to break it to you but a growth in support is not a majority. As the EU slowly fails, so will any support for Scottish independence.

45 minutes ago, bannork said:

Most Brits want to remain in the EU.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-remain-eu-boris-johnson-leave-bmg-poll-a9279996.html

Highly amusing.

 

Anyway, the vote was in 2016 (with a poll size of 33.5 million) and Parliament is sovereign.

 

So it's toughtiddy ????.

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Nothing like the will of the people being underwritten by a ennobled billionaire tax avoider. That swamp is looking drier by the day (Zac Goldsnith and Nicky Morgan aside of course). 

Well said.The SNP has always been a repository of honour and morality.

https://order-order.com/2019/11/21/alex-salmond-indicted-attempted-rape-sexual-assault/

 

16 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Well said.The SNP has always been a repository of honour and morality.

https://order-order.com/2019/11/21/alex-salmond-indicted-attempted-rape-sexual-assault/

 

As far as I am aware, he hasn't been convicted of anything. Do you have particular insight into the case? 

...yet! (????)

Edited January 15, 20206 yr by evadgib

19 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

As far as I am aware, he hasn't been convicted of anything. Do you have particular insight into the case? 

No idea whether he is guilty or not - and in any case it would be inappropriate to comment at this stage.

 

Craig Murray, former diplomat and ardent nationalist comments:

 

"The Salmond Affair indeed stinks to high heaven and no aspect of it stinks more than the role in steering the affair, throughout, of Liz Lloyd, Nicola Sturgeon’s Chief of Staff. Lloyd is also known to be personally friendly with David Clegg of the Daily Record who published what were claimed to be leaked details of one of the “allegations” against Salmond."

 

 

Clearly there is much more to come out on SNP dirty in fighting and I am not sure it will be to the benefit of Sturgeon.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Highly amusing.

 

Anyway, the vote was in 2016 (with a poll size of 33.5 million) and Parliament is sovereign.

 

So it's toughtiddy ????.

It will be tough tiddies for the poor souls in the UK who voted for Brexit 

39 minutes ago, bannork said:

It will be tough tiddies for the poor souls in the UK who voted for Brexit 

How did your constituency vote in the EU referendum bannork, because if its the same place you were schooled at, they voted out!

 

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

How did your constituency vote in the EU referendum bannork, because if its the same place you were schooled at, they voted out!

 

 

 

 

 

That's nearly as funny as the obsolete town crier! ????