UK election result 'blew away' argument for second Brexit vote: Labour's Starmer

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If the English could vote for Scotland to leave the UK today, they would be out tomorrow.

We have always known Bojo is not on the side of the English, nor the Scots, Welsh or Irish.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

That would be one point of view, how about another.

My opinion,

Scotland isn't currently a country, but the sooner it can become a country and it's citizens require a VISA to enter England, the better.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

hang on to an ungrateful and unsupportive people who do nothing but agitate against them?

Beats me, but it's probably something to do with the Queen wanting to hang on to all that land she has up there.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

My opinion,

Scotland isn't currently a country, but the sooner it can become a country and it's citizens require a VISA to enter England, the better.

Why the hostility? 

[sandyf]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

My opinion,

Scotland isn't currently a country, but the sooner it can become a country and it's citizens require a VISA to enter England, the better.

Fortunately opinions mean very little. Like other attempts by a UK PM to promote their opinion, this could well end up in the courts.

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Why the hostility? 

 

Because you b4stards broke our crossbar in 1977.

 

 

 

Some things cannot be forgiven.....

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Was everyone in the EU given a vote on Brexit?

No they weren't, BUT they do have a commissioner for each country to represent them.

 

I don't think that is possible that the EU commissioners have the power to prevent a country from leaving the EU.

 

Not every Scot was given the right to vote on Indy 1 either unless they were living in Scotland which to me seems very unfair. At least for Brexit ALL eligible voters had the opportunity to vote or not, including UK voters who were living abroad provided the were registered to vote.

 

In the UK case it is that the UK is the EU member and NOT the individual countries separately. AFAIK Scotland will have to leave the UK and meet all the requirements for EU membership then apply as a separate country which they cannot do at this time as they are still part of the UK.

 

In a similar situation if Catalonia wants to become an EU member it has to leave Spain first.

[Tiger1980]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Here we go again. Bill is stating that the rest of the UK should get to vote in any Scottish independence referendum.

Once again I point out the hypocrisy in demanding this when Brexiteers would have had a mass collective hissy fit if the same rule had been applied for leaving the EU.

  

Perhaps Bill is thinking,that should all of the people of the UK take part in such a vote, then there would be much more likely hood of Scotland being kicked out.

 

[Tiger1980]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

So maybe you know the answer to the question that I have posed many times on these threads, but never received a satisfactory reply - if Scotland is a drain on England's resources, why would a country that happily allows ex servicemen to live and die on the streets, hang on to an ungrateful and unsupportive people who do nothing but agitate against them?

Due to the fact the last time the Scots voted on this issue, 55% of them voted to remain in the UK

 If the vote were to go to 50.1% to leave. Then you would notice that the rest of the UK would be only too happy to see their departure, they certainly would not do a EU and try to keep you in prison.

[Tiger1980]

On 1/12/2020 at 2:12 AM, sandyf said:

Exactly. Bojo and his merry brexiteers think that 43% is an overwhelming mandate for brexit. Scared stiff of the result of a second referendum he manipulated the result he was after on anti Corbyn sentiment.

Blair manipulated the UK into bed with the US and look what happened. Scotland has a right to self determination and would be right to reject being ruled by a UK/US administration.

What happened during your many years living in England, to make you think as you do?

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Everything that does not sit well with the brexiteer will always be project fear or fake news.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-remain-eu-boris-johnson-leave-bmg-poll-a9279996.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/scottish-independence-rally-glasgow-nicola-sturgeon-snp-a9279676.html

Sandy, I did not say this was fake but I am saying that it is the type of threat that is typical of the EU.  

 

Your added links refer to Scottish independence, not these EU threats.

 

 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

So maybe you know the answer to the question that I have posed many times on these threads, but never received a satisfactory reply - if Scotland is a drain on England's resources, why would a country that happily allows ex servicemen to live and die on the streets, hang on to an ungrateful and unsupportive people who do nothing but agitate against them?

If you want a satisfactory reply, ask a satisfactory question.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Fortunately opinions mean very little. Like other attempts by a UK PM to promote their opinion, this could well end up in the courts.

Seems to be fashionable these days, I must admit.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Tiger1980 said:

What happened during your many years living in England, to make you think as you do?

As I left England in 2008 the answer would be nothing.

I agreed with David Cameron that Scotland's best interest would be served as part of the UK and the EU. Turned out it was all lies and he was already plotting to stab Scotland in the back.

Alex Salmond's white paper had more holes than a bar of Aero and the 2014 result was the right one at the time.

Given the current circumstances the Scottish government have every right to put a new plan to the people of Scotland, the result may well be the same but it is for the people to decide. no one else.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Sandy, I did not say this was fake but I am saying that it is the type of threat that is typical of the EU.  

 

Your added links refer to Scottish independence, not these EU threats.

 

 

I never said you said it was fake - "will always be project fear or fake news."

Confirmation lies in what you said?

"I suppose we can expect the EU to continue with Project Fear"

 

The links were just fodder for further confirmation.

 

[nauseus]

39 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I never said you said it was fake - "will always be project fear or fake news."

Confirmation lies in what you said?

"I suppose we can expect the EU to continue with Project Fear"

 

The links were just fodder for further confirmation.

 

All confusing, as usual. Enjoy your meal. 

[kingdong]

10 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Here we go again. Bill is stating that the rest of the UK should get to vote in any Scottish independence referendum.

Once again I point out the hypocrisy in demanding this when Brexiteers would have had a mass collective hissy fit if the same rule had been applied for leaving the EU.

  

Don,t worry mate if you do get your independence,rest assured the eu will all have vote on your bid to remain before it gets the Spanish archer.

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Beats me, but it's probably something to do with the Queen wanting to hang on to all that land she has up there.

A mere pittance when one looks at what uk had to give up when we joined the eu.

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

 

In the UK case it is that the UK is the EU member and NOT the individual countries separately. AFAIK Scotland will have to leave the UK and meet all the requirements for EU membership then apply as a separate country which they cannot do at this time as they are still part of the UK.

 

In a similar situation if Catalonia wants to become an EU member it has to leave Spain first.

The last point is why the eu would never vote for it if Scotland should get their independence.

Edited January 13, 2020 by kingdong

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

So maybe you know the answer to the question that I have posed many times on these threads, but never received a satisfactory reply - if Scotland is a drain on England's resources, why would a country that happily allows ex servicemen to live and die on the streets, hang on to an ungrateful and unsupportive people who do nothing but agitate against them?

There's nowt as queer as folks.

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Countries issue their own passports and have embassies and consulates in other countries, if they don't, they aren't.

Perhaps they don,t but they print their own money which no one wants to change up.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

All confusing, as usual. Enjoy your meal. 

As usual, when all else fails.......

[sandyf]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:33 PM, bannork said:

The UK wants to leave the group and expects to be treated the same as members?

Better get rid of that superiority complex fast.

Those of us that were exporting to Europe before the single market actually saw firsthand the benefits of "frictionless trade".

What is that voice in the distance? "This is not what we voted for."

 

The reality is bad news for UK industries like car manufacturers and supermarkets, which rely on moving parts and goods quickly across the channel without bureaucracy and time-consuming checks.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-trade-deal-eu-leave-talks-a9282206.html

 

[melvinmelvin]

29 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Those of us that were exporting to Europe before the single market actually saw firsthand the benefits of "frictionless trade".

What is that voice in the distance? "This is not what we voted for."

 

The reality is bad news for UK industries like car manufacturers and supermarkets, which rely on moving parts and goods quickly across the channel without bureaucracy and time-consuming checks.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-trade-deal-eu-leave-talks-a9282206.html

 

 

yes, bad news,

 

worse news will come when foggy islands start to deviate from EU production/health/safety standards in order

to secure trade deals with the US (and others)

 

(short sightedness always win)

 

 

[jayboy]

Today the Prime MInister replied to the Scottish First Minister's request for a transfer of power to hold an independence referendum. A copy of his letter is attached below.

 

The contents can be briefly summarised as "Swivel on that, Sturgeon."

 

 

 

 

[englishoak]

6 hours ago, jayboy said:

Today the Prime MInister replied to the Scottish First Minister's request for a transfer of power to hold an independence referendum. A copy of his letter is attached below.

 

The contents can be briefly summarised as "Swivel on that, Sturgeon."

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps now every UK thread wont be hijacked by hopeful whining Scots.. but somehow I doubt it 

 

Bottom line is Scots when onto something sweet can nearly always be bought off. Its always been the same throughout Scottish history. Always betrayed by their own elite, either paid off or doing deals for themselves or ideology not truly the nation or people.  SNP has decreasingly had an interest in Scotland's true independence and swung to accepting just a bigger paycheck and EU master instead. End of the day true blue Scots ( at least all the ones I know who are ) saw and still see no point of swapping one tit and master for another, thats why the insincere EU independence ref lost the vote to begin with...  

 

Ahh well they only have themselves to blame. Should have campaigned for true independence when they had the chance instead of the plastic EU ruled version.  ????

 

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

13 hours ago, jayboy said:

Today the Prime MInister replied to the Scottish First Minister's request for a transfer of power to hold an independence referendum. A copy of his letter is attached below.

 

The contents can be briefly summarised as "Swivel on that, Sturgeon."

 

 

 

 

That's a shame. Would have been fun watching them lose another Democratic vote ????.

 

I'd like to say this will keep Sturgeon quiet for a while but knowing Sturgeon she'll keep talking her nonsense regardless.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, jayboy said:

Today the Prime MInister replied to the Scottish First Minister's request for a transfer of power to hold an independence referendum.

 

The predictable first steps have been taken IAW due process.

It will be up to the Scottish parliament to make the next move.

 

Ms Sturgeon said that the Scottish government would set out its full response later in January when Holyrood will be asked once more to endorse requesting formal powers from the UK government. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-nicola-sturgeon-news-indyref2-scotland-independence-referendum-a9282906.html

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

yes, bad news,

 

worse news will come when foggy islands start to deviate from EU production/health/safety standards in order

to secure trade deals with the US (and others)

 

(short sightedness always win)

 

 

Quite, brexit blindness hid the slippery slope.

Even the government acknowledged it would be downhill.

 

The government’s own internal analysis, leaked during the general election campaign, said there would be checks on goods in both directions between the two parts of the UK. 

It also said there would be a devastating impact on the Northern Irish economy and claimed 98 per cent of Northern Ireland export businesses would be “likely to struggle to bear this cost” of customs declarations and documentary and physical checks on goods within the UK.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-border-check-boris-johnson-uk-eu-barnier-northern-ireland-goods-a9283686.html

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

That's a shame. Would have been fun watching them lose another Democratic vote ????.

 

I'd like to say this will keep Sturgeon quiet for a while but knowing Sturgeon she'll keep talking her nonsense regardless.

Now that Bojo has made a formal rejection his interpretation can be challenged.

 

The legitimacy of a second referendum was originally supported by David Mundell while Secretary of State for Scotland in the Cameron Cabinet. On June 26 2016, he said: "If the people of Scotland ultimately determine that they want to have another [independence] referendum there will be one.”

He added: "Could there be another referendum? The answer to that question is yes. Should there be another referendum? I believe the answer to that question is no." These remarks were made on the BBC’s Sunday Morning Politics show and subsequently widely reported in the UK press. Clearly at that point, the Secretary of State’s advice was that there was no “lifetime” or generational block on a second referendum.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18159096.fact-check-claim-snp-vowed-indyref-once-lifetime-opportunity/