18 minutes ago, hoxman said:

4 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

seems the satellite data is recorded and stored yet apparently could not help locate flight mh370

If a missile had been launched to take down MH370 it would have been seen most likely. The US, and surely Russia, operate a large network radars and satellites that are solely dedicated to tracking missile launches around the world. 

 

true but was thinking in regards to heat imaging that might have been following path.

28 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

You do not agree he was a terrorist? 
 

The two previous administrations were both plotting to take him out but did not get a as clear shot as the current administration. 
 

Had Obama killed him he’d have been praised. 
 

He was an enemy combatant killed legally on the battlefield. 

 

 
 

 

Battlefield??? Its the road from the airport in Iraq.

 

Did not know that the sovereign territory of Iraq was owned by the US due to some US law passed by a US govt in the US.

 

Last everyone looked the borders of the USA were on another continent.

 

Again one questions the US propensity for violence and internationally illegal drone launched missiles to assassinate a member of a foreign government. Just look at the US president speaking at a rally today, the guy seems to be literally gloating and bragging.

 

Why could the US not just have persuaded the Iraqi authorities to arrest the Iranian official and then extradite him to the US?

Edited January 10, 20206 yr by userabcd

3 hours ago, userabcd said:

The news is reporting that representatives from the NTSB and Boeing are going to Iran to participate in the investigation. I would assume the investigation focuses on substantially more than just the flight data recorders.

If they did not shoot it down it's the co incidence of all time

   I'm sorry, but I disagree with all the experts, there is no excuse for any country to shoot down an aircraft (if true) without knowing what your shooting at. 

 

2 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

If they did not shoot it down it's the co incidence of all time

Cannot understand why the Iranians are not giving the real reason for the downing of this aircraft, the physical evidence will be evident and is going to prove an alternative version to  what the Iranians are saying happened.

24 minutes ago, mogandave said:

You do not agree he was a terrorist? 

Maybe you start with educating us which universally accept authority is responsible for labeling anyone as terrorist. 

In US, terrorism is defined in Title 22 Chapter 38 U.S. Code § 2656f as "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents".
 

The above can be interpreted in way that meant that US in killing Soleimani is a terrorist act. Don’t you think so. 

52 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

You do not agree he was a terrorist? 
 

The two previous administrations were both plotting to take him out but did not get a as clear shot as the current administration. 
 

Had Obama killed him he’d have been praised. 
 

He was an enemy combatant killed legally on the battlefield. 

 

 
 

 

I don't think US declared war on Iran, and as such I don't think your last line is accurate.

 

Iran also considers many in US as terrorists. I'm sure you'd not agree if they started taking out your leadership and claim it was justified, and legal kill in the battlefield..

 

I hope cool heads prevail before this gets worse. 180 people already paid for it with their lives. Hope the number doesn't increase.

10 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

I don't think US declared war on Iran, and as such I don't think your last line is accurate.

 

Iran also considers many in US as terrorists. I'm sure you'd not agree if they started taking out your leadership and claim it was justified, and legal kill in the battlefield..

 

I hope cool heads prevail before this gets worse. 180 people already paid for it with their lives. Hope the number doesn't increase.

The US never declared war against North Vietnam either so that detail isn't particularly relevant!

 

The conflict between Iran and the USA is in no way over. Iran will definitely continue with their proxy based hostilities in different countries. 

 

The significance of the recent crisis is that it was seriously threatened that the conflict would transform into being much more direct rather than proxy based.

 

That of course could still quite easily happen. 

44 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Cannot understand why the Iranians are not giving the real reason for the downing of this aircraft, the physical evidence will be evident and is going to prove an alternative version to  what the Iranians are saying happened.

well, the Iraninnies know that Ukraine and US are buddy buddies

 

so that plane became fair game to them... 

 

 

 

Lusitania in the air

5 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

   I'm sorry, but I disagree with all the experts, there is no excuse for any country to shoot down an aircraft (if true) without knowing what your shooting at. 

 

You mean ONLY this aircraft, I guess?

9 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

I watched the Canadian news today, and American news.

therenis CLEAR video of the missle, flying upwards, impacting the plane, then shortly after a second missle flying upwards and again impacting the plane.

no question, clear video.

they say the may have thought it was a USA fighter plane retaliating after the initial Iran strike. But in fact it was a civilian aircraft.

but the video is clear, 2 surface to air missiles. 

I am sure they tried to clean up the debris before other authorities are on the scene. 

Mistake or not, sad situation, doesn't look good on Iran.

crippling sanctions on the way, Iran is in a world of hurt like they have never ever seen.

but it's the people that will suffer.

where is the video?  can we get a link to this clear video?  or is this fake news video?

4 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

where is the video?  can we get a link to this clear video?  or is this fake news video?

NYT has authenticated the video. Many in Iran verified the video by comparing the buildings to Google Maps.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html

 

And these guys are the ones you want to trust with nuclear technology and weapons?

How was it that they happened to be filming the dark sky where this plane was flying at just the moment it was fired on?  These could be the guys that shot it down..  I see only 1 missile in that video.

9 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

How was it that they happened to be filming the dark sky where this plane was flying at just the moment it was fired on?  These could be the guys that shot it down..  I see only 1 missile in that video.

Where and who did they get the footage from? 

8 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

How was it that they happened to be filming the dark sky where this plane was flying at just the moment it was fired on?  These could be the guys that shot it down..  I see only 1 missile in that video.

 

Crash site is east from flight path to Kiev.

 

 

Pretty clear video of the missile hit in this article. 

 

Also rather disturbingly, it seems the Iranian authorities have used bulldozers to clear the crash site. So maybe we'll never get the truth. 

 

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/irans-unthinkable-act-after-ukrainian-plane-crash/news-story/35e4437316f8783aff33f8459397ab8d

Many airlines don't fly anymore over Irak or Iran , even a Lufthansa flight to Teheran turned back to Germany halfway and all Teheran flights cancelled as a precaution,…..very soon not much options anymore if Pakistan/India should start again there dispute ....oh... yes Afghanistan ???? is still an option ...., anybody taking a flight home shortly ….?

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

Many airlines don't fly anymore over Irak or Iran , even a Lufthansa flight to Teheran turned back to Germany halfway and all Teheran flights cancelled as a precaution,…..very soon not much options anymore if Pakistan/India should start again there dispute ....oh... yes Afghanistan ???? is still an option ...., anybody taking a flight home shortly ….?

The last year we have been flying zig zag to and from Thailand due to Kashmir and Iran as well Ukraine, Turkey and Moscow deal. 

Edited January 10, 20206 yr by Tagged

7 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Maybe you start with educating us which universally accept authority is responsible for labeling anyone as terrorist. 

In US, terrorism is defined in Title 22 Chapter 38 U.S. Code § 2656f as "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents".
 

The above can be interpreted in way that meant that US in killing Soleimani is a terrorist act. Don’t you think so. 

No, I don’t. 

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

10 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Maybe you start with educating us which universally accept authority is responsible for labeling anyone as terrorist. 

In US, terrorism is defined in Title 22 Chapter 38 U.S. Code § 2656f as "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents".
 

The above can be interpreted in way that meant that US in killing Soleimani is a terrorist act. Don’t you think so. 

No, I don’t. 

Eric Loh: By the very law code you cited it was not a terrorist act. The killing was not performed by a "subnational group or clandestine agent" and Major General Soliemani was not a "noncombatant target".

 

You can read and understand English, right?

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 20206 yr by MaxYakov

 

BBC News (hopefully, real) Iran says its military "unintentionally" shot down a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board, Iran's state TV reports.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51073621

 

"In a tweet on Saturday, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif suggested "US adventurism" was partly to blame for the downing of the Ukrainian jet."

 

Another fabulous quote:

 

"It apologized and said it would upgrade its systems to prevent future tragedies."

 

And Iran wants nuclear weapons? I won't state the obvious except to say that what Iran really needs is a regime change, a real "systems upgrade".

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 20206 yr by MaxYakov

21 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

 

BBC News (hopefully, real) Iran says its military "unintentionally" shot down a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board, Iran's state TV reports.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51073621

 

"In a tweet on Saturday, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif suggested "US adventurism" was partly to blame for the downing of the Ukrainian jet."

 

Another fabulous quote:

 

"It apologized and said it would upgrade its systems to prevent future tragedies."

 

And Iran wants nuclear weapons? I won't state the obvious except to say that what Iran really needs is a regime change, a real "systems upgrade".

 

 

 

What was the US's reaction after it accidentally downed a passenger plane?

44 minutes ago, stevenl said:

1 hour ago, MaxYakov said:

 

BBC News (hopefully, real) Iran says its military "unintentionally" shot down a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board, Iran's state TV reports.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51073621

 

"In a tweet on Saturday, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif suggested "US adventurism" was partly to blame for the downing of the Ukrainian jet."

 

Another fabulous quote:

 

"It apologized and said it would upgrade its systems to prevent future tragedies."

 

And Iran wants nuclear weapons? I won't state the obvious except to say that what Iran really needs is a regime change, a real "systems upgrade".

 

 

 

What was the US's reaction after it accidentally downed a passenger plane?

According to Wiki HERE

"In the days immediately following the incident, US President Ronald Reagan issued a written diplomatic note to the Iranian government, expressing deep regret."

 

"In 1996, the governments of the United States and Iran reached a settlement at the International Court of Justice which included the statement "...the United States recognized the aerial incident of 3 July 1988 as a terrible human tragedy and expressed deep regret over the loss of lives caused by the incident..." As part of the settlement, even though the U.S. government did not admit legal liability or formally apologize to Iran, it still agreed to pay US$61.8 million on an ex gratia basis in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.^[13] The shootdown was the deadliest aviation disaster involving an Airbus A300"

 

Like the state of mind of the captain of the Vincennes, I'm sure the Iranians responsible were paranoid about a possible U.S. response to Iran's missile attack on the Iraqi airbases. I think there's too much reliance on tactical military equipment rather than on the good old MK I Eyeball. I always wondered why someone on the Vincennes did pick up a set of binoculars and at least attempt to identify the aircraft.

 

Is it even possible to compare these two shootdowns I wonder? Maybe on some level, but I would vote for regime change just on general principles. Maybe someday the Iranian people will rise up and take their country back.

 

 

Edited January 11, 20206 yr by MaxYakov

16 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

According to Wiki HERE

"In the days immediately following the incident, US President Ronald Reagan issued a written diplomatic note to the Iranian government, expressing deep regret."

 

"In 1996, the governments of the United States and Iran reached a settlement at the International Court of Justice which included the statement "...the United States recognized the aerial incident of 3 July 1988 as a terrible human tragedy and expressed deep regret over the loss of lives caused by the incident..." As part of the settlement, even though the U.S. government did not admit legal liability or formally apologize to Iran, it still agreed to pay US$61.8 million on an ex gratia basis in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.^[13] The shootdown was the deadliest aviation disaster involving an Airbus A300"

 

Like the state of mind of the captain of the Vincennes, I'm sure the Iranians responsible were paranoid about a possible U.S. response to Iran's missile attack on the Iraqi airbases. Is it even possible to compare these two shootdowns I wonder? Maybe on some level, but I would vote for regime change just on general principles. Maybe someday the Iranian people will rise up and take their country back.

 

 

Deep regret, Shocked, Appalled etc are lovely terms when they are uttered by the mighty & powerful people - it seems justifies any atrocity committed from their side.

After all, we humans will ALWAYS be biased towards 'our camp' even while uttering the opposite!

20 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

According to Wiki HERE

"In the days immediately following the incident, US President Ronald Reagan issued a written diplomatic note to the Iranian government, expressing deep regret."

 

"In 1996, the governments of the United States and Iran reached a settlement at the International Court of Justice which included the statement "...the United States recognized the aerial incident of 3 July 1988 as a terrible human tragedy and expressed deep regret over the loss of lives caused by the incident..." As part of the settlement, even though the U.S. government did not admit legal liability or formally apologize to Iran, it still agreed to pay US$61.8 million on an ex gratia basis in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.^[13] The shootdown was the deadliest aviation disaster involving an Airbus A300"

 

Like the state of mind of the captain of the Vincennes, I'm sure the Iranians responsible were paranoid about a possible U.S. response to Iran's missile attack on the Iraqi airbases. I think there's too much reliance on tactical military equipment rather than on the good old MK I Eyeball. I always wondered why someone on the Vincennes did pick up a set of binoculars and at least attempt to identify the aircraft.

 

Is it even possible to compare these two shootdowns I wonder? Maybe on some level, but I would vote for regime change just on general principles. Maybe someday the Iranian people will rise up and take their country back.

 

 

And the US did away with their nuclear weapons as you suggested?

 

Has Iran received a formal apology already? Or did the US already accept liability?

 

A regime change in Iran? Sure the US has very good experiences with that in Iran and in the rest of the neighbourhood there as well.

Iran, we shot it down but the POTUS made us do it.That's like saying ,yes, I pulled the trigger and killed him but somebody made me do it!

 

And they want  nukes! Cold day in hell!

Edited January 11, 20206 yr by riclag

4 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

 

BBC News (hopefully, real) Iran says its military "unintentionally" shot down a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board, Iran's state TV reports.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51073621

 

"In a tweet on Saturday, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif suggested "US adventurism" was partly to blame for the downing of the Ukrainian jet."

 

Another fabulous quote:

 

"It apologized and said it would upgrade its systems to prevent future tragedies."

 

And Iran wants nuclear weapons? I won't state the obvious except to say that what Iran really needs is a regime change, a real "systems upgrade".

 

 

 

And they are still lying with this (from the same BBC story):

 

The military said the jet turned towards a sensitive site belonging to Iran's Revolutionary Guards and was then mistaken for a hostile aircraft.

 

Such rubbish. The 737 was climbing on runway heading, as is normal, when it was hit. Systems upgrades don't count for anything if there is a nutter with the trigger.