Must Read Iran most likely downed Ukraine airliner with missiles, U.S. officials believe

[webfact]

Iran most likely downed Ukraine airliner with missiles, U.S. officials believe

By David Shepardson and Mark Hosenball

 

FILE PHOTO: Debris of a plane belonging to Ukraine International Airlines, that crashed after taking off from Iran's Imam Khomeini airport, is seen on the outskirts of Tehran, Iran January 8, 2020. Nazanin Tabatabaee/WANA (West Asia News Agency) via REUTERS/File Photo

 

WASHINGTON/KIEV (Reuters) - A Ukraine airliner that crashed in Iran, killing all 176 people aboard, was most likely brought down accidentally by Iranian air defences, U.S. officials said on Thursday, and President Donald Trump said he did not believe the crash was due to a mechanical issue.

 

Citing an extensive review of satellite data, one U.S. official said the government had concluded with a high degree of certainty that anti-aircraft missiles brought down the plane, on the same day that Iran launched ballistic missiles at U.S. forces in Iraq.

 

The official said the Ukraine International Airlines plane had been tracked by Iranian radar.

 

The data showed the Boeing 737-800 was airborne for two minutes after departing Tehran when the heat signatures of two surface-to-air missiles were detected, one of the officials said.

 

That was quickly followed by an explosion in the vicinity of the plane, this official said. Heat signature data then showed the plane on fire as it went down.

 

The flight was on its way to Kiev carrying mostly Iranians and Iranian-Canadians.

 

The crash happened early on Wednesday morning, hours after Iran launched missile attacks on U.S.-led forces in Iraq, leading some to speculate that the plane may have been hit.

 

Iran's head of civil aviation denied the reports as "illogical rumours."

 

"Scientifically, it is impossible that a missile hit the Ukrainian plane, and such rumours are illogical," the semi-official ISNA News Agency quoted Ali Abedzadeh as saying.

 

Two U.S. officials said Washington believed the downing of the plane was accidental.

 

Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said he had a terrible feeling about the downed airliner but offered no details. He said he did not believe it was a mechanical issue.

 

Security officers and Red Crescent workers are seen at the site where the Ukraine International Airlines plane crashed after take-off from Iran's Imam Khomeini airport, on the outskirts of Tehran, Iran January 8, 2020. Nazanin Tabatabaee/WANA (West Asia News Agency) via REUTERS

 

"It's a tragic thing. But somebody could have made a mistake - on the other side," Trump said.

 

Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was due to provide an update on the crash on Thursday afternoon.

 

Ukraine had outlined four potential scenarios to explain the crash, including a missile strike and terrorism. Kiev said its investigators wanted to search the crash site for possible debris of a Russian-made missile used by Iran's military.

 

An initial report issued by Iran's civil aviation organisation on Thursday cited witnesses on the ground and in a passing aircraft flying at a high altitude as saying the plane was on fire while in the air.

 

It said the three-year-old airliner, which had its last scheduled maintenance on Monday, encountered a technical problem shortly after take-off and started to head toward a nearby airport before it crashed. The report said there was no radio communication from the pilot and that the aircraft disappeared from radar at 8,000 feet (2,440 m).

 

INITIAL REPORT

Investigations into airliner crashes require regulators, experts and companies across several international jurisdictions to work together. It can take months to fully determine the cause and issuing an initial report within 24 hours is rare.

 

Canadian Foreign Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne called his Iranian counterpart to stress that Canadian officials needed "to be quickly granted access to Iran to provide consular services, help with identification of the deceased and take part in the investigation of the crash."

 

"Canada and Canadians have many questions which will need to be answered," a Canadian statement said.

 

Britain wants a transparent investigation, Prime Minister Boris Johnson's spokesman said on Thursday following a call between the British leader and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy.

 

"The prime minister said that there needed to be a full credible and transparent investigation into what happened," the spokesman said.

 

Tensions between Washington and Tehran have risen with the United States' killing of a top Iranian general on Friday.

 

The Ukrainian airliner took off at 6:12 a.m. local time and was given permission to climb to 26,000 feet, Iran's report said. It crashed six minutes later near the town of Sabashahr.

 

Bodies and body parts recovered from the site of the crash were taken to the coroner's office for identification, the report said.

 

Smouldering debris, including shoes and clothes, was strewn across a field where the plane crashed. Rescue workers in face masks laid out scores of body bags.

 

Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration declined to comment on the missile reports on Thursday, as did the Pentagon.

 

Boeing is still reeling from two deadly crashes of 737 MAX planes in five months that led to the plane's grounding in March 2019. The 737-800 that crashed was built in 2016 and is the prior generation of the 737 before the MAX. Boeing has built about 5,000 of those planes, which have a good safety record.

 

(Reporting by Mark Hosenball, David Shepardson, Jonathan Landay and Phil Stewart in Washington; Alexander Cornwell & Babak Dehghanpisheh in Dubai, Pavel Polityuk in Kiev; Additional reporting by Tim Hepher in Paris, Jamie Freed in Sydney, Allison Lampert in Montreal, Steve Scherer in Ottawa, Laurence Frost in Paris, Matthias Williams in Kiev, Mark Hosenball in Washington and David Ljunggren in Ottawa, Elizabeth Piper in London; Writing by Alexander Cornwell and Sonya Hepinstall; Editing by William Maclean and Alistair Bell)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-01-10

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[Thechook]

Doesn't look good for Iran and they refuse to hand over the black box.

[smedly]

 

Ground to Air missiles target heat sources (engines)

 

There is nothing normal (in terms of engine failure) as to how this aircraft met its end unless some very rare (almost impossible) catastrophic engine failure took place that downed it very suddenly and very quickly.

 

It looks to me like it was shot down, when engines fail they are shut down and these aircraft are able to fly perfectly on one engine, if this was in fact engine failure then under normal circumstances it should have been able to return to the airport and perform a safe landing.

 

Something went very suddenly and badly wrong causing it to lose contact with ATC and crash, that is not the profile for an engine failure on one of these aircraft - or any commercial aircraft for that matter.

 

It was shot down IMO either intentionally or by some idiot that thought a commercial aircraft near a commercial airport was a target and hit the big red button

[smedly]

6 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Doesn't look good for Iran and they refuse to hand over the black box.

grounds for more IMO

 

if ever there was justification - then no argument from me

 

there is no excuse for shooting down a commercial aircraft

[techietraveller84]

A number of news reports also mention that witnesses saw the plane on fire in the sky and that explosions happened while it descended. Definitely doesn't sound like a malfunction of the plane.

Boats, trains and buses are looking more attractive all the sudden!

[jastheace]

13 minutes ago, smedly said:

It was shot down IMO either intentionally or by some idiot that thought a commercial aircraft near a commercial airport was a target and hit the big red button

i have a feeling that this will be proved but not revealed to keep 'tensions' in order.

[smedly]

2 minutes ago, jastheace said:

i have a feeling that this will be proved but not revealed to keep 'tensions' in order.

based on what we know I think pretty much everyone knows already what happened to this aircraft - there were no screaming pilots on the radio asking for permission to return to the airport - it went out like a switch...……...everything

[Tug]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

grounds for more IMO

 

if ever there was justification - then no argument from me

 

there is no excuse for shooting down a commercial aircraft

Hey smedly russa did ( their proxy) it in Ukraine the USA shot down an Iranian airliner back in the 90s the USS Vincennes imo it is a tragic incident and whoever gave the plane permission to fly should be held accountable imo not so much the Iranians government 

[brucec64]

14 minutes ago, Tug said:

Hey smedly russa did ( their proxy) it in Ukraine the USA shot down an Iranian airliner back in the 90s the USS Vincennes imo it is a tragic incident and whoever gave the plane permission to fly should be held accountable imo not so much the Iranians government 

Technically, the Iranian version of the FAA gave permission for the plane to take off, so it is still the Iranian government that is accountable. But nice try at deflection...

[ravip]

RIP for the passengers on board that unfortunate aircraft.

Once again, innocent people have paid for the foolishness of politicians. Excuses and accusations will be exchanged at the highest levels, and the game will carry on.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukrainian-jet-crashed-killing-176-appears-have-been-shot-iranian-n1112996

 

[Tug]

26 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

Technically, the Iranian version of the FAA gave permission for the plane to take off, so it is still the Iranian government that is accountable. But nice try at deflection...

You are mistaken if you think I’m deflecting but more reprisals and death are uncalled for imo it was a tragic byproduct of a country under threat it was not an intentional act to shoot down a passenger plane

[Dumbastheycome]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

grounds for more IMO

 

if ever there was justification - then no argument from me

 

there is no excuse for shooting down a commercial aircraft

Look back to 1988. 290 people including  60 children died when the US shot down  an Iranian passenger plane.

[stevenl]

It could easily be correct, but the source is suspect.

[rabas]

More info coming in, there are now at least three videos, apparently all from the same area of the same event. This image is from one video from before missile impact.  Missile is circled, bright light is street lamp. This video shows the impact. Link below to multiple new videos and discussion.

 

HeshmatAlavi/status/1215398756616757248

[Chomper Higgot]

The US can not be regarded as an impartial source, firstly in view of the current US/Iran conflict, secondly in view of the safety mess Boing are currently in.

 

As for demanding evidence, well let’s agree, there is never an excuse for withholding evidence.

[Dumbastheycome]

Interesting ! Video all from  same area of the same event...at quite a distance?

 

[evadgib]

A stampede followed by a plane load is a spectacular own goal to a country publicly seeking revenge.

[Pedrogaz]

I suspect the CIA. The US has form shooting down passenger airliners in Iranian airspace. Yes, look it up, and no, they never apologized.

[harriott456]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

grounds for more IMO

 

if ever there was justification - then no argument from me

 

there is no excuse for shooting down a commercial aircraft

the us isn't really in a position to say or lecture anyone seeing as they shot an Iranian one down killing 270 and then refused to apologise. 

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Look back to 1988. 290 people including  60 children died when the US shot down  an Iranian passenger plane.

Indeed a horrible tragedy, but while the US has admitted culpability, let see if iran will do the same, so far they're reluctant to hand over the black boxes to be examined, why? what's on them that Iran is trying to hide if the the plane has suffered a mechanical failure as Iran claim?...

[Orton Rd]

Deliberately shot down not accidentally, you don't fire 2 missiles at a plane by accident

[harriott456]

2 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Deliberately shot down not accidentally, you don't fire 2 missiles at a plane by accident

ive only seen 1 clip that didn't really show much, you have any links?

 

[Ron jeremy]

I watched the Canadian news today, and American news.

therenis CLEAR video of the missle, flying upwards, impacting the plane, then shortly after a second missle flying upwards and again impacting the plane.

no question, clear video.

they say the may have thought it was a USA fighter plane retaliating after the initial Iran strike. But in fact it was a civilian aircraft.

but the video is clear, 2 surface to air missiles. 

I am sure they tried to clean up the debris before other authorities are on the scene. 

Mistake or not, sad situation, doesn't look good on Iran.

crippling sanctions on the way, Iran is in a world of hurt like they have never ever seen.

but it's the people that will suffer.

[Chomper Higgot]

31 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Deliberately shot down not accidentally, you don't fire 2 missiles at a plane by accident

Why not three missiles or ten?

 

The claims are made without presenting evidence.

 

 

[steven100]

9 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

I watched the Canadian news today, and American news.

therenis CLEAR video of the missle, flying upwards, impacting the plane, then shortly after a second missle flying upwards and again impacting the plane.

no question, clear video.

they say the may have thought it was a USA fighter plane retaliating after the initial Iran strike. But in fact it was a civilian aircraft.

but the video is clear, 2 surface to air missiles. 

I am sure they tried to clean up the debris before other authorities are on the scene. 

Mistake or not, sad situation, doesn't look good on Iran.

crippling sanctions on the way, Iran is in a world of hurt like they have never ever seen.

but it's the people that will suffer.

Thanks for your update. Yes ....  sounds like Iran messed up big time here, and the people of Iran will see the facts from the TV and US footage.  I wouldn't like to be in Iran's government in any capacity at this point in time or down the road when folks witness the truth.

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

I watched the Canadian news today, and American news.

therenis CLEAR video of the missle, flying upwards, impacting the plane, then shortly after a second missle flying upwards and again impacting the plane.

no question, clear video.

they say the may have thought it was a USA fighter plane retaliating after the initial Iran strike. But in fact it was a civilian aircraft.

but the video is clear, 2 surface to air missiles. 

I am sure they tried to clean up the debris before other authorities are on the scene. 

Mistake or not, sad situation, doesn't look good on Iran.

crippling sanctions on the way, Iran is in a world of hurt like they have never ever seen.

but it's the people that will suffer.

Remarkably fortunate to have such clear video footage.

[atyclb]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Citing an extensive review of satellite data, one U.S. official said the government had concluded with a high degree of certainty that anti-aircraft missiles brought down the plane, on the same day that Iran launched ballistic missiles at U.S. forces in Iraq.

 

seems the satellite data is recorded and stored yet apparently could not help locate flight mh370

[sammieuk1]

No accident this plane was full of foreigners time to sort out these mothers for good???? 

[ThaiBunny]

13 minutes ago, atyclb said:

seems the satellite data is recorded and stored yet apparently could not help locate flight mh370

But could help with the similar attack on MH17 over Ukraine

[Ron jeremy]

12 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

No accident this plane was full of foreigners time to sort out these mothers for good???? 

Many many were Iranian - Canadians home for the holidays.