10 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Indeed a horrible tragedy, but while the US has admitted culpability, let see if iran will do the same, so far they're reluctant to hand over the black boxes to be examined, why? what's on them that Iran is trying to hide if the the plane has suffered a mechanical failure as Iran claim?...

Is it necessarily correct to say trying to hide? It is possible  yes. But as possible is that they also want to  make their own analysis of the content before handing it on. Given the combination of events there will always be suspicion directed in  all directions even if callously made for less than humane objectives.

There would  be little logical reason  for the Iranians  to deliberately shoot  down  this aircraft. To suggest that there was  no co ordination  between the Military and  the Civil Airport who were apparently operating "as normal"  is  not so likely given the planning  behind  the  missile  launch on Iraq. Someone forgot to turn off an automated defense system? Has there  been any mention of  other  air traffic arriving  or departing the same airport? Has there been any  detailed  explanation as to why this particular  aircraft was "delayed  for technical problems"? At this stage the US is "generously" implying the Iranians accidentally shot it down.

Why not more consideration of the possibly greater cause  being a cowardly attack on civilians by internal Iranian dissidents? Or would that be an inconvenient truth? How strange it is  that the videos purporting to be  missiles are so opportunely  taken  from a very similar location of a random aircraft in the distance ? The NLA still exists with the  support of the US  and  others.

IMO whatever the outcome of any  "official" findings derived  from any source will be only as close to the truth as necessary for public consumption.

 

 

4 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

true. what i was pondering is satellite infra-red ability as to follow heat trail from engines.

The United States will have spy satellites in geosynchronous orbits above Iran. 

Its unlikely they have one over Malaysia.

But you never know. 

A heartbreaking tragedy and heinous crime.  Russian mobile heat seeking missiles commanded by Iranians.  Not a good scenario.

We all know Iran killed all these people.  What's amazing is the totally blind idiots who can't see the evil here.  If you want to defend Iran and attack America, I suggest you move to Iran.  Canadians might be dumb enough to blame Trump, and simply not smart enough to see the bigger picture.  Then they will turn to America for help.   

 

I suggest all anti-Americans out there to do a little research before spewing your anti-Trump garbage.  I wish America, like many other countries, could use anti-American rhetoric posts against individuals asking America for help.  But these people love to hate and then run to America when they need help.  

 

 

The videos of the missles were taken from the ground very close.

you will see them , they are all over North American television.

they are Iranian videos. The Iranians were obviously recording the missle launches directed at the air bases, and then the surface to air missles were also recorded.

the American intelligence know where you sh&$t last. And what colour wipe u used. They have satellite images of the every launch.

6 hours ago, smedly said:

grounds for more IMO

 

if ever there was justification - then no argument from me

 

there is no excuse for shooting down a commercial aircraft

Convenient to ignore the US history of shooting down civilian aircraft. There is never any justification for shooting down civilian passenger aircraft.

 

Regional tensions raised by a supreme superpower's extreme retaliation is partially attributable to this event.

52 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Why not three missiles or ten?

 

The claims are made without presenting evidence.

Two missiles is standard procedure for many SAM systems because the probability of downing the target goes way up with two. It's statistical. The system was trying to shoot down 'an' aircraft.

 

Some troll posts have been removed also replies

6 hours ago, smedly said:

 

Ground to Air missiles target heat sources (engines)

 

There is nothing normal (in terms of engine failure) as to how this aircraft met its end unless some very rare (almost impossible) catastrophic engine failure took place that downed it very suddenly and very quickly.

 

It looks to me like it was shot down, when engines fail they are shut down and these aircraft are able to fly perfectly on one engine, if this was in fact engine failure then under normal circumstances it should have been able to return to the airport and perform a safe landing.

 

Something went very suddenly and badly wrong causing it to lose contact with ATC and crash, that is not the profile for an engine failure on one of these aircraft - or any commercial aircraft for that matter.

 

It was shot down IMO either intentionally or by some idiot that thought a commercial aircraft near a commercial airport was a target and hit the big red button

Other than your technical error right at the start SAMs (surface to air missiles) are radar guided, not heat seekers, this is a fairly good assessment.

 

But I very much doubt that it was a deliberate act. The majority of the passengers were, in fact Iranians or Iranian/Canadian citizens. They are hardly likely to target their own. This is I'm sure a 'fog of war' accident due to the heightened tensions, plus maybe a technical error, much like the incident in Ukraine a few years ago.

 

There was a similar incident during 'Desert Storm' when an incoming RSAF exec jet was targeted by a patriot missile near Riyadh. The error was spotted just in the nick of time and the missile ordered to 'self destruct'. It resulted in a spectacular photograph which went viral around Riyadh with every Tom, Dick and Ahmed selling copies.

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Why not three missiles or ten?

 

The claims are made without presenting evidence.

 

 

Evidence is in the black box which they are refusing to hand over, that is all the evidence needed

But Why ??? 

2 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Evidence is in the black box which they are refusing to hand over, that is all the evidence needed

The news is reporting that representatives from the NTSB and Boeing are going to Iran to participate in the investigation. I would assume the investigation focuses on substantially more than just the flight data recorders.

Deflections, reflections. Excuses, accusations. Expert opinions, analysis. Everyone trying to save their own dirty face. But the poor, innocent and absolutely faultless human beings have paid the price with their lives! Now it is the bystanders who are in the centre stage. The people who started all this should take responsibility, unconditionally - IMHO

7 hours ago, smedly said:

grounds for more IMO

 

if ever there was justification - then no argument from me

 

there is no excuse for shooting down a commercial aircraft

 

I agree with you.

 

But, playing Devil's advocate, what happened when the USAF downed a civilian airliner in the Med years ago?

35 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

We all know Iran killed all these people.  What's amazing is the totally blind idiots who can't see the evil here.  If you want to defend Iran and attack America, I suggest you move to Iran.  Canadians might be dumb enough to blame Trump, and simply not smart enough to see the bigger picture.  Then they will turn to America for help.   

 

I suggest all anti-Americans out there to do a little research before spewing your anti-Trump garbage.  I wish America, like many other countries, could use anti-American rhetoric posts against individuals asking America for help.  But these people love to hate and then run to America when they need help.  

 

 

"Canadians might be dumb enough to blame Trump, and simply not smart enough to see the bigger picture".

I ask you, on what do you bias base your opinion that Canadians are "dumb" and "simply not smart enough".

 

"Then they will turn to America for help".

Examples please of when "dumb Canadians  turn to America for help".

 

Fella, unless you know our masses first hand, 33 million in all, I suggest you keep your broad-brush opinions about "smart and dumb to yourself". Better still, take a look in a mirror.

 

I am Canadian !

4 hours ago, Tug said:

You are mistaken if you think I’m deflecting but more reprisals and death are uncalled for imo it was a tragic byproduct of a country under threat it was not an intentional act to shoot down a passenger plane

Country under threat?

Is poor, innocent Iran the victim here? Read up on their proxy war activities before calling them the innocent party here. They are under threat because of all of their threatening prior activitlies. 

    IF, this story is true, then it only go to prove that such countries like Iran should never be allowed to have such high tech equipment, But it may also go to show that Russia may be held accountable for assisting these maniacs again and again ???????

Some troll, off topic and quted replies of same have been removed

      WHY do so many people blame the Americans for all these problems, WHAT would the world be like if all those crazy fanatical murder's were allowed to continue unchecked, murdering their own people just in order to get their own way, 

For the morbid and/or gorehounds, horrific crash debris images HERE.

2 hours ago, Ventenio said:

I suggest all anti-Americans out there to do a little research before spewing your anti-Trump garbage.

May I suggest that you are getting a couple of things mixed up here, because there is a huge difference between being "anti-American" and being "anti-trump".

 

I am certainly not anti-American, nor are many of the friends I have here, the vast majority of whom dislike trump immensely for the person that he is, and I don't need to go into volumes of what he is, what he has done and what he has said, because it's all out there in black and white for all to see.

 

Personally I don't see any American "black ops" at work here, just a terrible tragedy initiated by a country under duress, and thoroughly accidentally. It can happen to any country and has happened to the US in the past, so no one/no country is immune from making a mistake like this.

21 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

    IF, this story is true, then it only go to prove that such countries like Iran should never be allowed to have such high tech equipment, But it may also go to show that Russia may be held accountable for assisting these maniacs again and again ???????

such countries like Iran...

Do you REALLY mean to say it is ONLY such countries like Iran shot down civilian planes? Or for that matter destroyed entire countries with missiles bringing untold misery to innocent civilians?

REALLY, are you honestly implying that?

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

May I suggest that you are getting a couple of things mixed up here, because there is a huge difference between being "anti-American" and being "anti-trump".

 

I am certainly not anti-American, nor are many of the friends I have here, the vast majority of whom dislike trump immensely for the person that he is, and I don't need to go into volumes of what he is, what he has done and what he has said, because it's all out there in black and white for all to see.

 

Personally I don't see any American "black ops" at work here, just a terrible tragedy initiated by a country under duress, and thoroughly accidentally. It can happen to any country and has happened to the US in the past, so no one/no country is immune from making a mistake like this.

I would even go further, and with Iran allowing access to the crash investigation, it becomes even more doubtful that it is ' terrible tragedy initiated by a country under duress, and thoroughly accidentally.'.

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The US can not be regarded as an impartial source, firstly in view of the current US/Iran conflict, secondly in view of the safety mess Boing are currently in.

 

As for demanding evidence, well let’s agree, there is never an excuse for withholding evidence.

if Trump had not killed the General and created a volatile environment this could have been avoided.  Trump can not see the bigger picture.  he is a clear and present danger to the world.

Edited January 10, 20206 yr by malibukid

7 minutes ago, malibukid said:

if Trump had not killed the General and created a volatile environment this could have been avoided.  Trump can not see the bigger picture.  he is a clear and present danger to the world.

I'm going to be more fair about this.

The assassination of a very high Iranian government official was most certainly not necessary, not about an imminent threat, ill advised, and probably illegal under international law.

So that blame starting this crisis which Iran was forced to respond to is definitely on 45.

But beyond that the missiles shot by Iran achieved their short term goal, responding in a way that created an opening to avoid further immediate escalation (but the risk is hardly over). If Iran has messed up and killed Americans then we would likely already be well into a major escalation difficult to stop. Which 45 would have started, totally without need.

But this airplane thing which I agree was most likely an accident related to the tense atmosphere can't fairly be directly blamed on the actions of 45. There is an indirect cause and effect connection, but really there are enough real horrors that this president deserves blame for, so I don't see the need to stretch things to blame him for things that aren't fully deserved.

Accident ?!!! ????????

There is no accident unless someone really presses the button. 

1 hour ago, grumpy 4680 said:

IF, this story is true, then it only go to prove that such countries like Iran should never be allowed to have such high tech equipment,

Especially all those F-14s which the US sold them ... 

Iran has some top notch hardware with some hot heads operating it, my thoughts are that the US spooked the Iranians into thinking the had launched drones that were undetectable by radar.

4 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

seems the satellite data is recorded and stored yet apparently could not help locate flight mh370

If a missile had been launched to take down MH370 it would have been seen most likely. The US, and surely Russia, operate a large network radars and satellites that are solely dedicated to tracking missile launches around the world. 

53 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm going to be more fair about this.

The assassination of a very high Iranian government official was most certainly not necessary, not about an imminent threat, ill advised, and probably illegal under international law.

So that blame starting this crisis which Iran was forced to respond to is definitely on 45.

But beyond that the missiles shot by Iran achieved their short term goal, responding in a way that created an opening to avoid further immediate escalation (but the risk is hardly over). If Iran has messed up and killed Americans then we would likely already be well into a major escalation difficult to stop. Which 45 would have started, totally without need.

But this airplane thing which I agree was most likely an accident related to the tense atmosphere can't fairly be directly blamed on the actions of 45. There is an indirect cause and effect connection, but really there are enough real horrors that this president deserves blame for, so I don't see the need to stretch things to blame him for things that aren't fully deserved.

 

You do not agree he was a terrorist? 
 

The two previous administrations were both plotting to take him out but did not get a as clear shot as the current administration. 
 

Had Obama killed him he’d have been praised. 
 

He was an enemy combatant killed legally on the battlefield.