How do I get my 400,000 baht back?

[ThaiBrian]

Are you retired or working? If retired, have fun. Just threaten them with lawsuit. Have your lawyer send them a letter giving them 2 options. 1. Cut your loss and ask for half the investment back and promise not to sue, 2) Sue them, waste their time and money. Basically a scare tactic. I've been sent a letter from a lawyer demanding I give up a domain name not worth fighting for. I took my sweet ass time but gave it up as I didn't want to get into a legal battle. I've done this myself, threatened someone who would not stop harassing. I was losing a lot of money at the time and my last option was to take him to court but I didn't want to waste time and money, neither did he.

[Guest]

Here is a concept.

(1) Grow a pair

(2) Find her in Phuket

 

(3) Have the "talk" ... point at the ocean ... and ask her how far she can swim.

 

"I can't swim."

 

Exactly.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, Chrysaora said:

Appeasement at its worst.  Why not just hand over your money to the nearest Thai woman and skulk away lest you make her angry.

 

Shameful advice.

Now if I would have just arrived in Thailand then maybe I would think like you.

But in Thailand it's not like my lawyer calls your lawyer. Things work different here - if we like it or not.

So if someone who lives here since 20 years tells "you" forget it there is a reason for that.

 

Compare and spot the difference ????

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Now if I would have just arrived in Thailand then maybe I would think like you.

But in Thailand it's not like my lawyer calls your lawyer. Things work different here - if we like it or not.

So if someone who lives here since 20 years tells "you" forget it there is a reason for that.

 

Compare and spot the difference ????

OMG.  i agree with One More Farang!  Honey, call a taxi and get me to the hospital!  I must have Dengue Fever!  555!  Hey Chrysaora .. that money is g-o-n-e unless you want to hire a "professional" to retrieve it .. and spend the rest of your life sleeping with one eye open ... because Hell hath no fury like this type of Thai woman separated from a sum of money she could easily live on for a looooooooooong time.

[Morty T]

I have 52 in-laws, and only lend money with substantial collateral. No one ever asks us for money. Peace on earth, and a happy home.

[Time Traveller]

On 1/10/2020 at 9:54 AM, CNXexpat said:

a police report

Why would you file a police report? Was a crime committed?

The first thing is to check whether the loan was a secured loan, or an unsecured loan?

If it was secured, then you need just seize the assets to reclaim the debt. Or, if it was an unsecured loan, and you've exhausted all efforts to get them to pay you back, then you can simply file through the courts to liquidate their company. 

The problem is that if it's a small company then they may not have assets worth the liabilities owed. However if they are doing business as sole proprietors or partnership, then you can go after their personal assets. Beware, that it's only worth doing if they actually have recoverable assets. If they don't, then you'll be stuck with an unrecoverable settlement and legal fees to pay. 

 

 

[Time Traveller]

On 1/10/2020 at 11:37 AM, Mick501 said:

Getting legal advice seems the only (sensible) solution.  Great if you can do it on a no win, no fee basis and a % of the proceeds as payment upon success.  

I always love the hilarious comments. That really is a funny one.

[Janner1]

I have struggled to read your post so correct me if I am wrong. 
As i read it you appear to say that you loaned an ex friend 400,000baht to start a business drying plants to sell to contacts in Europe, 

However your ex friend decided against the original venture for which you loaned him the money and used it to buy furniture for another entirely different business, which you were effectively not a part of.

 

If my interpretation of your very difficult story telling is correct it then becomes a misuse of the funds and in my estimation this is fraudulent and you should have a relatively easy claim for mis-appropriation,

However you are in Thailand where the law appears to be the same but In fact is very different.

 

May I suggest that you try to find a lawyer who can understand your English and who will advise you for a one off payment for the time it takes him/her to give said advice, after which you can decide the way you proceed and whether or not to employ him / her to find a settlement.

 

I also think that you are saying you loaned the money to your ex friend, so unless his wife /Gf signed your documents as a joint borrower your claim will be entirely with your ex friend. If however she did sign then your claim is jointly against them both and not her alone.

The currant business she runs will also play very little part in the settlement of your claim as it is not the business he or they borrowed the money for.

 

That is how I read your post so please if I am wrong correct me but if I am not wrong then maybe you should heed my words and the words of some others and find yourself a good lawyer, or do as some others here have said and take it on the chin, man up, learn from it and walk away.

Good luck and choose carefully

[DefaultName]

These "dried plants", would they make sniffer dogs do somersaults?  

[whiteman]

I would like to know when your so called friend decided to buy furniture for the new office what did you say to him when he told you.

 

2nd question why did he up sticks out of Thailand and not give you the money or some of it back.   Some friend me thinks.

[jackdd]

8 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

The first thing is to check whether the loan was a secured loan, or an unsecured loan?

The first thing to do before answering, is to read this thread.

It wasn't a loan (he made a mistake in the OP), but an investment in the company

[fairbank]

First i believe it was your money that u used to invest , and i'm sure your wife deceived u to invest, but i'm sure u will say otherwise, most people do on TV, they trust their thai wives too mut, lol , most men married here are morons , some are wise of course, i recommend u ask your wife where the money has gone . i know u will come back to tell me something i've heard so many times. lol

[rebelplatoon]

On 1/11/2020 at 12:26 PM, CNXexpat said:

No, there is a contract that my wife owns 25% of the company for the 400k Baht. Not only a hand shake.

 

The company is still alive. But she made her money without involving the company as an insurance agent. But our invested money was used to buy furniture and so on to bring the insurance selling to life.

 

I think the contract is waterproof and the company is still existing. The 75% owner is making her money without involving the company.

 

Yes, I (better: my wife) got 25% of the company but, as written above, now she earns her money without involving the company.

 

Yes, my wife has.

 

I guess I named it wrong. I (my wife) invested 25% in the company, but the 75% owner makes her money now without involving the company. See my comment above.

Ok so she's making money without involving the original company you say...

Then I'd definitely move on. The single and only thing would be to offer your friend a way out by paying a smaller one off sum but if that doesn't work move on. It's life and a lesson. Wish you the best. 

[Puccini]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

...It wasn't a loan (he made a mistake in the OP), but an investment in the company

I must have missed the post where CNXexpat said he made made a mistake when he wrote loan.

 

CNXexpat also wrote several times that he, respectively his wife has a contract confirming his "investment", which he also called his "25% ownership of the company" in some of his posts. In reply to a question, he also confirmed that he, respectively his wife, has a share certificate stating that he owns 25% of the total shares of the company.

 

What is still missing now is his confirmation that the company's records at the Department of Business Development (DBD) of the Ministry of Commerce list this shareholding.

 

Does the company CNXexpat talks about even exist on the DBD's records? The posts of CNXexpat are so confusing that this seems a valid question.

[robblok]

I guess CNXexpat is mistaken. He just bought a 25% share in a company for the 400.000. The only way to get it back is to sell his shares. This is different from a loan. Calling it a loan is wrong.

 

I am not even sure he can force the lady to do business through the company. So it looks like his money is gone. 

[jackdd]

4 minutes ago, Puccini said:

I must have missed the post where CNXexpat said he made made a mistake when he wrote loan.

In post #30

On 1/11/2020 at 12:26 PM, CNXexpat said:

I guess I named it wrong. I (my wife) invested 25% in the company, but the 75% owner makes her money now without involving the company. See my comment above.

 

[stuandjulie]

On 1/10/2020 at 6:55 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Lived in Phuket for a while and have connections, PM me if you need help. Won't be for free.

 I have Hi So friends and was in the SAS ????????

[Monomial]

On 1/11/2020 at 12:26 PM, CNXexpat said:

 

The company is still alive. But she made her money without involving the company as an insurance agent. But our invested money was used to buy furniture and so on to bring the insurance selling to life.

 

 

And you have proof, (bank transfers, receipts, etc.) that company funds were used for the purchase of personal assets for the benefit of the director?

 

That could in theory be considered embezzlement, a criminal offense, but more likely the director will simply say it was a loan, and all that would require is for the loan to be repaid to the company at some point. As a 25% shareholder you can't really influence company policy in any way, so they could argue the term of the loan was indefinite and the interest rate was 0%.  Your only real option then would be to get the Revenue Department to go after them for tax evasion. The Revenue Department tends to frown those kinds of "agreements".

 

Also, if they do try and call it a loan, you could demand to see the loan contract including the official stamps for the duty paid on the loan contract at the time of the loan. These stamps are dated when purchased, so they can't simply run out and buy them today and back date an official loan agreement. Without a stamped agreement, the loan was not made according to the law, so you lend some credibility to your case that it was really corporate embezzlement.

 

Most likely, you could force some kind of settlement by threatening to get the Revenue Department involved and trying to bring embezzlement charges against the director, but you will need proof of wrongdoing.

[CNXexpat]

On 1/12/2020 at 6:18 AM, Janner1 said:

I have struggled to read your post so correct me if I am wrong. 

You understood my post 100% correct.

[CNXexpat]

On 1/11/2020 at 5:47 PM, scorecard said:

If the funds were to buy a 25% share in the business is there any documentation which states that on payment you automatically have a 25% share in the business, and does it state what rights you have in regard to business decisions? After all 25% ownership is not a small ownership.

I have the full documentation.

[CNXexpat]

On 1/11/2020 at 7:33 PM, ThaiBrian said:

Are you retired or working? If retired, have fun. Just threaten them with lawsuit. Have your lawyer send them a letter giving them 2 options. 1. Cut your loss and ask for half the investment back and promise not to sue, 2) Sue them, waste their time and money. Basically a scare tactic.

Retired with 55 yo. So I have time ????

 

On 1/12/2020 at 4:29 AM, Time Traveller said:

The first thing is to check whether the loan was a secured loan, or an unsecured loan?

I wrote it wrong in my first post. I (better: my wife) got a 25% of the company, so it was technically not a loan. 

 

22 hours ago, fairbank said:

First i believe it was your money that u used to invest , and i'm sure your wife deceived u to invest, but i'm sure u will say otherwise, most people do on TV, they trust their thai wives too mut, lol , most men married here are morons , some are wise of course, i recommend u ask your wife where the money has gone . i know u will come back to tell me something i've heard so many times. lol

You know nothing about me and my wife (14 years married) and your comment is stupid and insulting.

 

23 hours ago, whiteman said:

I would like to know when your so called friend decided to buy furniture for the new office what did you say to him when he told you.

 

2nd question why did he up sticks out of Thailand and not give you the money or some of it back.   Some friend me thinks.

He didn´t told me before he bought. 
Because he had huge private problems with his wife and left Thailand with his son.

 

19 hours ago, Puccini said:

What is still missing now is his confirmation that the company's records at the Department of Business Development (DBD) of the Ministry of Commerce list this shareholding.

 

Does the company CNXexpat talks about even exist on the DBD's records?

Yes, it exists

[scorecard]

11 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

And you have proof, (bank transfers, receipts, etc.) that company funds were used for the purchase of personal assets for the benefit of the director?

 

That could in theory be considered embezzlement, a criminal offense, but more likely the director will simply say it was a loan, and all that would require is for the loan to be repaid to the company at some point. As a 25% shareholder you can't really influence company policy in any way, so they could argue the term of the loan was indefinite and the interest rate was 0%.  Your only real option then would be to get the Revenue Department to go after them for tax evasion. The Revenue Department tends to frown those kinds of "agreements".

 

Also, if they do try and call it a loan, you could demand to see the loan contract including the official stamps for the duty paid on the loan contract at the time of the loan. These stamps are dated when purchased, so they can't simply run out and buy them today and back date an official loan agreement. Without a stamped agreement, the loan was not made according to the law, so you lend some credibility to your case that it was really corporate embezzlement.

 

Most likely, you could force some kind of settlement by threatening to get the Revenue Department involved and trying to bring embezzlement charges against the director, but you will need proof of wrongdoing.

 

From above:  " As a 25% shareholder you can't really influence company policy in any way, so they could argue the term of the loan was indefinite and the interest rate was 0%. "

 

Was any documentation shared / signed off by both parties before the funds to buy the 25% share was transferred. And did that doumentation explain / state clearly what rights and responsibilities the buyer was buying, in addition to a solid specific statment of the business and activity of the company.

 

IMHO anybody buying a 25% share in a business should have enough sense to have proper documentation which, in addition to the above, states what circumstances, policies, actions etc., need the approval of the new 25% shareholder before proceeding.

 

[Mattd]

16 minutes ago, scorecard said:

As a 25% shareholder you can't really influence company policy in any way, so they could argue the term of the loan was indefinite and the interest rate was 0%. "

The point is the money was for a 25% holding in the company, it was NOT a loan, so the chances of recovering the money are low.

Same as the stock market, you buy shares and can lose or gain when you sell them, what you can't do is ask for your money back.

[moontang]

On 1/11/2020 at 12:45 PM, AussieBob18 said:

I stopped reading after that. 

 

But I do suggest you ask your 'friend' what he is willing to do about his debt to you. 

But like all have said - you made a very bad investment.

 

Never loan money to anyone - especially in Thailand.

 

 

A foreigner making loans is an illegal act.  Otherwise there would be signs in Russian on every corner offering payday loans or however they decide to front their loan sharking business.  But you lent your wife money to invest in a business...and you actually have a contract..and the business is still operating..than that is fraud and embezzlement.  Your wife should take most of the blame.  There is a National Credit Bureau here...legal banks couldn't function without it, so why should you.  SPDR is up 33% in the last 12 months..to the posters, who called you idiot and loser....kind of unnecessary.

[scorecard]

Snip:

 

There is an error above.  I didn't write the message "as a 25% shareholder you can't really influence......" I was quoting the member who did actually write the words. 

 

[Silencer]

You're lucky you might be out only 400,000. My farang friend hid over 1.8M baht that was due me two years ago. Client was furious and is mine now. 

[varun]

Loan = gift.

Sounds more like handshake deal made down at the karaoke shop over a few beers.

Forget about the 400k - don't be so gullible and stupid next time.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by varun

[CNXexpat]

17 minutes ago, varun said:

Sounds more like handshake deal made down at the karaoke shop over a few beers.

You are right with your "smart" comment. And next morning I wondered: why do I have a contract and own 25% of a company? Ooooopsi, but then it wasn´t a handshake deal. Well, perhaps you haven´t read (or understood) the text.

[SteveK]

In Thailand if you lend someone money you should consider that money as gone forever. I am sorry that in your case it is so much. You have no chance of ever getting a penny back.

 

Whatever you think you have i.e. 25% of nothing you should just forget about it and move on. Next time be more careful. 

 

Someone should make this a sticky for newcomers to Thailand. Very helpful for people (idiots) wanting to do business here.

Edited January 13, 2020 by SteveK

[Isaanbiker]

On 1/11/2020 at 1:46 AM, CNXexpat said:

Well, my Thai wife is at the end the owner of the 25% of the company, not me. And the other lady is living on Phuket, too far away to make us daily problems. I/my wife could start with asking the tax office what about the taxes of the company because she made profits with the commissions by example. My wife can also make a report at the police. The worst thing what can happen is that nothing happens. We could ask the insurance company what about the company and the commission to give her a bad reputation and so on. 

The worst thing what can happen is that nothing happens.

 

 The worst thing that could happen is that somebody pays a good amount of money and you'll disappear forever. 

 

A Thai would just call it "Som Nam Na."

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

  There were some very serious issues and people were even talking about a contract killer to get rid of the "problem."

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

Perhaps take the expat out in your username and replace it with tourist?

 

  Hard to understand that you've given an obviously unknown guy so much money and no trying to get it back.