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Trump impeachment trial opens as watchdog faults White House on Ukraine


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2 hours ago, rabas said:

Trump: Never wanted to be president, but I'm gonna get those idiot Democrats.

 

Trump: I resign.

 

Trump: May I introduce the next President of the United States, the first woman, first female minority, first ethnic non-American, first woman of color, and a true Indian, Nikki Haley. 

 

Dems: Who to run? Old white man Bernie? Old white man Biden? Second richest old white man Bloomberg?

 

After 3 years of total nonsense, Democrats loose their entire voter base.

 

trump was a Democrat until 2015!

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9 minutes ago, jany123 said:

In the context of American constitutional law, the definition of republic refers specifically to a form of government in which elected individuals represent the citizen body[2][better source needed] and exercise power according to the rule of law under a constitution, including separation of powers with an elected head of state, referred to as a constitutional republic[4][5][6][7] or representative democracy.[8]

 

mmm... a republic, you say (proudly)?

 

wiki says in regards to the usa, a republic is a government in which elected officials represent the citizens..... and exercise power according to the rule of law... including separation of powers... and is also known as s representative democracy

 

So... elected officials / representative democracy... mmmm... a flawed democracy, due to the electoral college means of voting, according to the UN

 

exercise power according to the rule of law... the trump is being impeached for contravening the rule of law, isn’t it?

 

includes separation of power.... the trump has been determined to have undermined the separation of power, hasn’t it?

 

it’s all rather debatable, but I’m pretty sure that your take, as quoted, does not define a republic.

We can cut through a lot of speculation...

 

The United States of America are a federal republic and a constitutional representative democracy.   https://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_q76.html

 

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2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

 

The wise, very wise, founding fathers of the Republic of the United States of America, ensured that the POTUS would not be elected by simple majority but through their Electoral College system. They wanted, very wisely, to ensure all states were fairly represented, and to stop the tyranny of the majority.

 

“The wise, very wise, founding fathers” did not construct what is now the electoral college... in fact, the devolution of democracy, as seen by changes to their vision, upset those wise men.

 

Madison and Hamilton (architects of the electoral college) were so upset by what they saw as a distortion of the original intent that they advocated a constitutional amendment to prevent anything other than the district plan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College

 

As an aside, it amuses me to think that some people feel that the founders were somehow wiser than modern scholars, despite over 200 years of learning since the treachery of the colonies.

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6 minutes ago, jany123 said:

“The wise, very wise, founding fathers” did not construct what is now the electoral college... in fact, the devolution of democracy, as seen by changes to their vision, upset those wise men.

 

Madison and Hamilton (architects of the electoral college) were so upset by what they saw as a distortion of the original intent that they advocated a constitutional amendment to prevent anything other than the district plan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College

 

As an aside, it amuses me to think that some people feel that the founders were somehow wiser than modern scholars, despite over 200 years of learning since the treachery of the colonies.

What treachery are you trying to infer here? And why?

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18 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I read an interesting article about this today.

 

There are basically two options:

a) He is declared guilty

b) He is declared to be above the law

I wonder how the senators will decide. And in case they decide he is above the law then I hope every one of them will be prosecuted for willfully ignoring the constitution.

 

"This will be a pivotal moment for America. If the Senate does not call the witnesses, it is in effect saying that Mr Trump is above the law. That would be an extraordinary abdication of constitutional responsibility."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/16/the-guardian-view-on-the-trump-trial-a-defining-moment-for-the-rule-of-law

 

Is this article written by objective unbiased opinion writers? Or is trying to spin an opinion based on a desired narrative? Be honest

Edited by Foghorny
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24 minutes ago, rabas said:

We can cut through a lot of speculation...

 

The United States of America are a federal republic and a constitutional representative democracy.   https://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_q76.html

 

Nice... your quoting us constitution commenting on a perfect world.... the only way you can be a constitutional republic is if yall follow the constitution, including its laws. (And good faith, if y’all want to keep sprouting on about the greatness of the constitution, as it envisioned government acting in good faith)

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Foghorny said:

What treachery are you trying to infer here? And why?

Why? I was clear... because it amuses

 

what treachery? British officers and citizens betrayed their nation by rebelling against it... they were traitors.

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9 minutes ago, jany123 said:

Why? I was clear... because it amuses

 

what treachery? British officers and citizens betrayed their nation by rebelling against it... they were traitors.

The empire was given several chances to stop the heavy taxation and tactics, chose to be even more onerous, then the inevitable happened. It was a predictable response

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20 minutes ago, Foghorny said:

The empire was given several chances to stop the heavy taxation and tactics, chose to be even more onerous, then the inevitable happened. It was a predictable response

Debating the justification of the rebellion is a different matter altogether... but that will not change the fact that treason was committed.

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1 minute ago, jany123 said:

Debating the justification of the rebellion is a different matter altogether... but that will not change the fact that treason was committed.

I guess there was a lot of that until the empire was destroyed

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2 hours ago, Foghorny said:

I guess there was a lot of that until the empire was destroyed

Lmao..... with the punishment of being hung drawn and quartered, I’d guess you’d be greatly over estimating that.

 

the (american) colonials only got away with it because they were so far away and European affairs were deemed more important.

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