Make a will in Thailand

[baneko]

I want to make a will in Thailand or the UK. I am unsure if a will made in Thailand will be accepted in the UK. I am also unsure if a will in the UK will be accepted in Thailand. I have property and money in both countries and want a basic will just to leave what I have to my wife and close family members. How easy is it to do and what are the standard costs?

 

Thanks in advance.

[bkk6060]

We will all die.

You need to do 2 wills.

One in UK and one here.

I give you credit for being responsible and thinking about this.

As most I know have nothing prepared.  They seem to they think they will live for ever.

Just irresponsible not to have a prepared plan.

Also, I would go to an good attorney.  Some cheap charlie say do it yourself I would not/have not proceeded that way.

Good luck.

Edited February 8, 2020 by bkk6060

[canopus1969]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

We will all die.

You need to do 2 wills.

One in UK and one here.

I give you credit for being responsible and thinking about this.

As most I know have nothing prepared.  They seem to they think they will live for ever.

Just irresponsible not to have a prepared plan.

Also, I would go to an good attorney.  Some cheap charlie say do it yourself I would not/have not proceeded that way.

Good luck.

Why not try this : https://www.thailandlawonline.com/preview-a-contract/thailand-last-will-template

[Kenny202]

I have just been through the process here and like most things there seems to be no clear rules, or at least not that anyone knows about. Different Lawyers tell you different things as do the Amphur offices and in fact people giving advice on TV. Everybody thinks they are right as they have all been told different things. At the end of the day do what makes the most sense to you. I decided to make my will in Australia as thats where the bulk of my money is and also I wanted to put money in trust for my Thai born son, away from the clutches of his natural mother. Trust accounts are not valid or recognised in Thailand.

 

So I did the will in Australia, by post. I received the actual will electronically (email), printed it out. Signed and had it witnessed by my Thai lawyer and his friend. I made another copy, had it translated and witnessed also and this is in my safe and a copy with my Thai lawyer. The original was sent back to my Australia lawyer for safekeeping at their office. Like I said the bulk of my assets in Australia. In Thailand I would have some money in the bank, vehicles, personal belongings etc and these will go directly to my Thai partner. I have instructions covering Australian assets and Thai assets in 2 seperate areas so one will covers Thailand and Australia. For Thailand I listed vehicle numbers, bank accounts etc as my Thai lawyer advised this would aid her to transfer things to her name more easily should I croak. 

 

My Lawyer says that the Australian will translated to Thai will suffice. I didn't like the idea of having two wills and still don't. It could appear that one will contradicts the other and at best may hold things up. I think upon death here your country is notified and I could just imagine a disgruntled family member back home disputing things on a Thai will.

 

Anyway, I would suggest keep it as simple as possible. Whoever witnesses it make sure they are traceable and preferably a notary or someone who has a stamp and address. By the way there are a few simple things that have to be added to a foreign will to make it legal in Thailand. For example you may have to write the location the will was signed on the front in your own hand. We were also told to make things watertight you need to lodge it at the Amphur etc. This on further investigation turned out not to be necessary. Lodging with your lawyer is enough. Best of luck

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Kenny202

[baneko]

2 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

I have just been through the process here and like most things there seems to be no clear rules, or at least not that anyone knows about. Different Lawyers tell you different things as do the Amphur offices and in fact people giving advice on TV. Everybody thinks they are right as they have all been told different things. At the end of the day do what makes the most sense to you. I decided to make my will in Australia as thats where the bulk of my money is and also I wanted to put money in trust for my Thai born son, away from the clutches of his natural mother. Trust accounts are not valid or recognised in Thailand.

 

So I did the will in Australia, by post. I received the actual will electronically (email), printed it out. Signed and had it witnessed by my Thai lawyer and his friend. I made another copy, had it translated and witnessed also and this is in my safe and a copy with my Thai lawyer. The original was sent back to my Australia lawyer for safekeeping at their office. Like I said the bulk of my assets in Australia. In Thailand I would have some money in the bank, vehicles, personal belongings etc and these will go directly to my Thai partner. I have instructions covering Australian assets and Thai assets in 2 seperate areas so one will covers Thailand and Australia. For Thailand I listed vehicle numbers, bank accounts etc as my Thai lawyer advised this would aid her to transfer things to her name more easily should I croak. 

 

My Lawyer says that the Australian will translated to Thai will suffice. I didn't like the idea of having two wills and still don't. It could appear that one will contradicts the other and at best may hold things up. I think upon death here your country is notified and I could just imagine a disgruntled family member back home disputing things on a Thai will.

 

Anyway, I would suggest keep it as simple as possible. Whoever witnesses it make sure they are traceable and preferably a notary or someone who has a stamp and address. By the way there are a few simple things that have to be added to a foreign will to make it legal in Thailand. For example you may have to write the location the will was signed on the front in your own hand. We were also told to make things watertight you need to lodge it at the Amphur etc. This on further investigation turned out not to be necessary. Lodging with your lawyer is enough. Best of luck

 

 

Excellent bit of information. Many thanks for taking the time to write. I will take your advice on-board when deciding my next move.  

[nglodnig]

We have wills in the UK - but AFAIK even if they are translated into Thai they are not valid in Thailand. We got Thai wills done (saying exactly the same thing) here in Chiang Mai - five or ten thousand baht, can't remember, but for safety it's best not to rely on a translated copy that gets thrown out when it's too late to do anything about it.

[brommers]

My will in Thailand was done by an attorney who also did a Living Will that is lodged at my hospital and instructs then to use no life extending procedures if I have a terminal condition/injuries. This is to allow me to die without the waste of huge amounts of my money which could be put to better use by my beneficiaries.

[Kenny202]

28 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

We have wills in the UK - but AFAIK even if they are translated into Thai they are not valid in Thailand. We got Thai wills done (saying exactly the same thing) here in Chiang Mai - five or ten thousand baht, can't remember, but for safety it's best not to rely on a translated copy that gets thrown out when it's too late to do anything about it.

a will is basically a statement written on a piece of paper. Country of origin is not important. If your will in Thailand  (I assume in Thai language) is the same wording as your English will, surely that in effect is no different to a translated copy. I should have mentioned the translated copy is witnessed and signed also which in effect could be considered to be a seperate Thai will. I think that is the point of different. Maybe just a piece of paper with a translation stating it is a copy of original will not a good idea. I just don't see the point of spending an extra 10k THB for nothing 

[twix38]

My father died in Chiangmai with no will. The tasks related to the death - hospital, police, death cert, English official translation  etc were not easy and stressfull.

 

Not having a Thai will was not a big deal. Sure had to get family members in UK to sign consent and have notorised. Employ a Thai lawyer and go to court. Its also not plain sailing with a will. As I see it do you want to do it an advance or leave it to others. Best to do a will but it's only slightly more inconvenient without a will if it's a plain situation as mine was I.e. only bank account, especially as you will probably need to return to home country anyway and if you have family whose consent is needed get it then. I had a great lawyer who cost 40k and as theres many tasks to do in UK wrt death I just scheduled the court case for 6 months later when returning to Thailand. Into court for 15 minutes and 30 days later funds transferred by lawyer. There was no property or car involved which could make a difference. For most a will is best but in my case it made little difference other than the task was mine rather than my dad's. Of course paperwork was more but it's not difficult to get birth certs marriage cert etc. From my experience it wasn't half as bad as the stories about not having a will. I went home to UK to deal with dad's death there and got the paperwork for thai court then returned to Thai court and done. It was easier than probate in UK! 

Edited February 9, 2020 by twix38

[nglodnig]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

I just don't see the point of spending an extra 10k THB for nothing 

As I understand it our wills are lodged with some sort of Thai court - so are watertight. Crossing your fingers and hoping your (foreign) translated wills will work, hopefully many years later down the line, is optimistic. 

[TKDfella]

I used this book which has a simple Will in both Thai and English as a template; I then extended both according to my needs but that does mean writing the Thai parts yourself.

 

[Fairynuff]

2 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

a will is basically a statement written on a piece of paper. Country of origin is not important. If your will in Thailand  (I assume in Thai language) is the same wording as your English will, surely that in effect is no different to a translated copy. I should have mentioned the translated copy is witnessed and signed also which in effect could be considered to be a seperate Thai will. I think that is the point of different. Maybe just a piece of paper with a translation stating it is a copy of original will not a good idea. I just don't see the point of spending an extra 10k THB for nothing 

Incorrect information 

[ThaiBunny]

Thailand does not recognise foreign Wills as Thai law does not recognize the jurisdiction of foreign courts over assets in Thailand is what I've been told by a Thai lawyer. I guess one question is whether a UK or US court would recognise a Thai Will as having any authority over UK or US assets. I'm fairly certain that Wills made in one English-speaking jurisdiction have force in all English-speaking jurisdictions once probate has been granted in one of them

[xylophone]

Attached is a Thai will form with an English translation for use here. You should also have a separate Will which deals with your assets in your home country.

Thai Will template.docx

[Kenny202]

53 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

As I understand it our wills are lodged with some sort of Thai court - so are watertight. Crossing your fingers and hoping your (foreign) translated wills will work, hopefully many years later down the line, is optimistic. 

Did you read the bit where it was ok'd, notarised and witnessed by a Thai lawyer? Im guessing he would have more of an idea than the experts on this forum

[Kenny202]

9 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Thailand does not recognise foreign Wills as Thai law does not recognize the jurisdiction of foreign courts over assets in Thailand is what I've been told by a Thai lawyer. I guess one question is whether a UK or US court would recognise a Thai Will as having any authority over UK or US assets. I'm fairly certain that Wills made in one English-speaking jurisdiction have force in all English-speaking jurisdictions once probate has been granted in one of them

Why is it a foreign will? There is nothing on the English will apart from my solicitors name and address. The Thai version is copied from the english will, in Thai. Every page is signed and witnessed as a normal Thai will would be. So it is essentially an independant Thai will which is worded the same as the english will. Both wills have instructions for Thai and Australian assets so there is no conflict here or at home. You do understand if you did just get a thai will, in Thai...you would still need a signed witnessed and notarised translation. Otherwise someone can argue you signed a will in a language you dont understand.

[Kenny202]

37 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

Incorrect information 

Why is it incorrect information? My Thai lawyer says everything is fine. Which part is incorrect or are you just trying to appear to be in the know but at the same time saying nothing of any substance.

 

Many wills in Thailand are done on a document obtained at the local shop. Everything is signed and witnesses at the Amphur and lodged there....if they will in fact accept it. Often they don't want to do it

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, nglodnig said:

As I understand it our wills are lodged with some sort of Thai court - so are watertight. Crossing your fingers and hoping your (foreign) translated wills will work, hopefully many years later down the line, is optimistic. 

As you understand it? "Some sort of court" 5555

 

You are on here dishing up advice and you don't even know where your will is lodged?

???????????? and you are saying others are crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. Optimistic?

 

It will be at the Amphur (local government) by the way. Or should be. Surely you would have had to go there with witnesses and sign off on it all?

 

My Lawyer also told me in Thailand the original of your will is kept in your home or your executor. Signed and sealed. The lawyer keeps a signed copy also signed and sealed.

 

You blokes are gold 

[saengd]

An overseas will can be written to include your estate in Thailand but this tends to be a convoluted and time consuming way of managing things, it's far better to have one each for every country where you have assets. The reason it is convoluted is because it requires two separate probates for the same will plus in the case of the UK it would mean overseas assets forming part of your estate and being subject to IHT. The other aspect is that if the Thai probate court ties up probate for whatever reason, that means that the entire probate process becomes stalled, even the UK side, it's far better to separate them.

 

A will that is written solely in a language other than the the language of the will holder can be challenged and potentially become void, it must be written in a language that the holder can be expected to understand and then translated. Mine Thai will is written in both languages, para for para, that negates the possibility of corrupting the will during probate.

 

My Thai will specifically states that it covers only my assets in Thailand, similarly my UK will stipulates that only my UK assets are included - it's important that both wills cross reference each other. My Thai will cost about 6k Baht to write, my UK will around 150 Pounds, it's no big deal if either has to be changed.

 

[OffshoreMig]

Depends where most of your assets are.  

contact a UK/Anglo Thai legal firm.  I just updated mine recently you can have more than one (One for your Thai Assets and one for your UK assets).

 

[Kenny202]

10 minutes ago, saengd said:

An overseas will can be written to include your estate in Thailand but this tends to be a convoluted and time consuming way of managing things, it's far better to have one each for every country where you have assets. The reason it is convoluted is because it requires two separate probates for the same will plus in the case of the UK it would mean overseas assets forming part of your estate and being subject to IHT. The other aspect is that if the Thai probate court ties up probate for whatever reason, that means that the entire probate process becomes stalled, even the UK side, it's far better to separate them.

 

A will that is written solely in a language other than the the language of the will holder can be challenged and potentially become void, it must be written in a language that the holder can be expected to understand and then translated. Mine Thai will is written in both languages, para for para, that negates the possibility of corrupting the will during probate.

 

My Thai will specifically states that it covers only my assets in Thailand, similarly my UK will stipulates that only my UK assets are included - it's important that both wills cross reference each other. My Thai will cost about 6k Baht to write, my UK will around 150 Pounds, it's no big deal if either has to be changed.

 

I don't know about other countries but I have had a few wills drawn up here and back home and every will starts with the clause...this will nullifies and cancels all previous and other wills.

 

If this appears on your English will it would mean your Thai will would / could be nullified.

 

You can also only have one executor per will

 

I am not advocating anyone just get a will in their home country (or vice versa) and hope that the Thai authorities will recognise it after the fact. I have a foreign will and a Thai will. Both are prepared /witnessed / signed as required by the respective country. It just so happens the original document was worded in Australia and they are identically worded so there can be no misinterpretation. Both wills have a paragraph stating instructions for Thai assets and Australian assets. On the Australian side my executor knows exactly what he need to do and he has authority to send funds / distribute to Thailand per my instructions. It is not up to the Australian authorities. The Australian will is with my Australian lawyers who are happy with the document. Thai will with my Thai lawyer who is also satisfied everything is up to snuff

 

You can call 5 Thai lawyers and they will give you a different story. Usually what is the most profitable for themselves. I am lucky in the we have a lawyer who is a family friend and really has no interest in smaller matters so his advice and assistance is always given without self interest.

 

 

I can't see anyway this can be open to interpretation by anyone and far from hoping for the best.  

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Kenny202

[khunPer]

On 2/8/2020 at 6:26 AM, baneko said:

I want to make a will in Thailand or the UK. I am unsure if a will made in Thailand will be accepted in the UK. I am also unsure if a will in the UK will be accepted in Thailand. I have property and money in both countries and want a basic will just to leave what I have to my wife and close family members. How easy is it to do and what are the standard costs?

You need two Last Will, one for UK, following UK law, for your property there; and one for Thailand, following Thai law, for your property here.

 

As Britt you should know, or have easy access to, your home country rules for a Last Will.

 

My information about a Last Will in Thailand is from the book "Thai Law For foreigners" (page 77-81), available in Thai bookstores selling English language books, or online. I made my Last Will myself.

 

A Thai Last Will is similar to many, if not most countries, where you can make different, all legal types. It can just be a simple handwritten or typed document with simple instructions, signed by you, and preferably two witnesses, written in your native language; this is called a "Regular Will".

 

A "Civil Documented Will", the testator will go to the amphor office (district office) with two witnesses and request an official to write a will. The testator and witnesses sign it, and the amphor-official also sign and stamp, or seal, the will as evidence. The testator can bring the will home, or leave it at file by the amphor office.

 

A "Secret Will" can be a handwritten will, or testator can ask someone to write it, but testator must sign it. The will will be sealed in an envelope with testator's signature on the seal. Testator can take the sealed will together with two witnesses to the amphor office and have it registered, and eventually filed.

 

A "Special Case Oral Will" is allowed under circumstances, where other form of wills cannot be made (no need for further explanation here).

 

If there is no will any property will be divided after the Civil and Commercial Code rules to the two types of heirs, by blood and marriage (explained in details in the book).

 

If you don't have any complicated wishes, you can just make a will at the amphor. There is a standard Thai document available, which can be downloaded (or bought online), or bought in a local paper-store that sells the numerous pre-printed agreements and contracts often used by Thais. The named book has examples with both Thai and English text on page 224-225.

 

Links:

Inheritance Laws Thailand I Succession Distribution Assets Legal (from SamuiForSale)

How to make a valid will in Thailand (from SamuiForSale)

Last Will and Testament for Thailand, Thai & English (template to buy)

????

 

Edit comment: I mentioned in both my will, my home country and Thai, that there is a will covering my assets in the other country; just so there will be no confusion.

Edited February 9, 2020 by khunPer

[rickb]

I went the route of two wills, one prepared in the US for my US assets and one prepared in Thailand for my Thai assets.  I was told by my US lawyer that the US will had to be written in the US by a US lawyer for it to be valid.  Perhaps other countries are not so specific.  I trust my US lawyer because he is my son.  My Thai will was prepared by a law firm in Korat.  You can contact them at [email protected].  The cost for the Thai will was 5,000 baht.

 

[khunPer]

19 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

My Lawyer says that the Australian will translated to Thai will suffice. I didn't like the idea of having two wills and still don't.

It would be legal, but complicated; and take long time, and be costly with numerous translations and letters.

 

If anything in your home country for your estate in Thailand don't strictly follow Thai Law, your will might no be valid, and Thai Law will be ruled by the court for any assets here.

 

Why not make it easy for your relatives and heirs, and make – just a simple – will for you Thai assets?

[saengd]

Note: an Amphur will is inexpensive but it does not negate the need for probate. An Amphur will is suitable for simple wills but should not be used where the value is large or the estate even a little bit complex because it can be challenged by relatives since it will be written in Thai rather than your native language.

[skorts]

I was also advised by my lawyers in the U.K. and Thailand to have separate Wills covering my U.K. and Thai assets. Each Will makes specific reference to the other Will. Seems the simplest option and means my U.K. and Thai asses will be dealt with separately within each country. 

[placnx]

One approach for using two wills is to mention the other lesser will in the text of your Australian will, so you would say that you have this Thai will executed earlier disposing of your assets situated in Thailand. In the Thai will, it would say that it was a will for disposing of your assets situated in Thailand.

[placnx]

15 minutes ago, saengd said:

Note: an Amphur will is inexpensive but it does not negate the need for probate. An Amphur will is suitable for simple wills but should not be used where the value is large or the estate even a little bit complex because it can be challenged by relatives since it will be written in Thai rather than your native language.

My understanding is that a Thai will can be handwritten in English. The handwritten provision maybe comes from French law. Registering the will at the Amphur is optional.

[Kenny202]

7 minutes ago, placnx said:

My understanding is that a Thai will can be handwritten in English. The handwritten provision maybe comes from French law. Registering the will at the Amphur is optional.

Oh dear god. I feel sorry for the OP who came here to get advice hopefully from someone with experience. Please disregard everything you have read here including my advice and particularly anything beginning with "in my understanding (aka I read it on Thai visa one time). Throw away lines like "maybe come from the French law" to add some weight to the meaningless drivel. Like children at the kiddies table interrupting the adults, trying to get on on the conversation.

 

Like a few have mentioned, identify where the bulk of your assets are held. If one country is overwhelmingly in the positive start there. Have your will drawn up at home covering those assets. They will not be able to give you any advice regarding Thai law. In my case I had my will drawn up in Australia as the majority of assets are there and I want to protect some of them from Thailand ie in trust for my son. It can't be done safely here.

 

Go and also see a Thai lawyer, hopefully with some positive recommendation from someone who is familiar with them. Ask his advice and go from there, using your own judgement as well. It was my personal preference to use the same wording for both wills so they didn't inadvertently contradict each other, particularly where translations are used. So I do have a Thai will and a foreign will they are just the same wording, covering Thailand and Australia. If on the advice of your Thai lawyer you feel more comfortable having a will in the UK addressing only UK assets, and ditto in Thailand go that way. Both are valid and really up to what you are most comfortable with  

[Kenny202]

20 minutes ago, placnx said:

One approach for using two wills is to mention the other lesser will in the text of your Australian will, so you would say that you have this Thai will executed earlier disposing of your assets situated in Thailand. In the Thai will, it would say that it was a will for disposing of your assets situated in Thailand.

Why not simply list assets in Thailand and assets back home? Then the document can be used for both countries and no contradiction or misunderstandings