How did shooter get weapons used in deadly Korat shooting?

[Basil B]

12 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

Long ago, I was part of a shooting club; I owned a French brand 22 LR competition rifle;
I would have liked to buy an Anschutz ( german made ) but it was much more expensive than my MAB (Manufacture d'Armes de Bayonne);
When I moved with it, the breech was never in the same box as the rifle and the ammunition were in a third place.

Had a call from a guy who's farther had passed away, and in sorting out his estate this guy who held a shot gun licences himself needed to access his fathers guns which were in a gun safe so the police could inspect them, but he did not know where his farther kept the keys, knowing that ammo needed to be kept separate I suggested he first check the ammo box, sure enough I just talked my way out of a job. 

[Basil B]

Just glad that first reports seem to have been untrue, he did not have grenades and explosives.

 

Suspect not just in Thailand but the military of many countries will be reviewing the security of their armouries. 

[Thian]

7 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

Not ineptitude. Obviously you and others did not pay attention to the news. He approached the armory under the pretext of requiring a weapon and shot & killed the soldiers on duty. Now tell me how is that inept on their part?  That comment is also a breach of TV's T&c's and again moderators have chosen to ignore the breach.

So what happened after he shot the armory guards? Did any alarm go of and the other soldiers started chasing him in their hummers? No? Why not? Why did the hanuman have to come from bangkok to stop him killing innocent shoppers in the mall? Were there no other soldiers closer to the mall?

[Thian]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the point of speculating here how it might have happened?

Because the investigators will come with a 100% waterproof answer to what happened. I bet they will have a totally different story than what i read here...

[OneMoreFarang]

51 minutes ago, Thian said:

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the point of speculating here how it might have happened?

Because the investigators will come with a 100% waterproof answer to what happened. I bet they will have a totally different story than what i read here...

And do you think the TV members, mostly farangs, mostly only speaking English, know the truth? 555

[Iron Tongue]

From the press, I have read that he was a sargeant major in an ammunition battalion.  As the sergeant major, he may have been the most senior NCO for the depot and the officers let him run the entire show, which would be typical in any military.

If this was the case, he ran the process for signing-out weapons/ammo and could use his authority to get close enough to kill the guards before taking the guns/ammo.

[mmushr00m]

Odds are the soldiers doing the guarding are conscripts. They probably will not go against the orders of a Sargent to move aside

[joecoolfrog]

17 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

That security scenario would fail if the general shot dead the guard, which is what happen at the armory

If security depended purely on a guard / guards then it would be a fairly simple task for any group of armed terrorists to raid an armoury would it not ?

The point is moot anyway because we know full well that no senior officer ,let alone his superiors ,will be disciplined or held to account.

[kiwikeith]

20 hours ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

Probably took them while the security guards were sleeping or distracted by LINE messages.

He can take weapons as long as he provides reasons for use so the article says.

Maybe his reason was to simulate a mass murder shooting at a shopping mall and they fell for it.

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, Thian said:

So what happened after he shot the armory guards? Did any alarm go of and the other soldiers started chasing him in their hummers? No? Why not? Why did the hanuman have to come from bangkok to stop him killing innocent shoppers in the mall? Were there no other soldiers closer to the mall?

General Cha Cha will be along shortly to answer your questions, but don't expect anything constructive - just more waffle and deflection. 

[tandor]

15 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Not that difficult to obtain weapons if one is a soldier in the first place, secondly willing to kill the people trying to avoid him doing so.
Kind of a pointless question if you ask me. When I was in the Dutch army, I could have done the same too.

Doesn't matter if security is tight, you are trusted and you can kill the person handing the weapons out / collecting them at the safe rooms.
He could also have gone to a shooting range and kill the ones stopping him. So actually something that can not be avoided if he/she really wants to do like this.

...i agree totally..he would not have approached the armory dressed as a civilian..but as the drama unfolded his dress still did not alert anyone and he just drove up to the shopping mall in the army vehicle, got out dressed and armed to the teeth and just walked in un-challenged into the mall, firing randomly at any one.

Let me add; why were there not any military personnel on duty at ALL the Kingdoms shopping malls, in light of the mass killings a few weeks earlier at the Lopburi gold shop heist. Im sure the public would have expected this and would have been appreciative of the military's' presence...RIP to all those who have been slain.

[Thian]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

9 hours ago, Thian said:

15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the point of speculating here how it might have happened?

Because the investigators will come with a 100% waterproof answer to what happened. I bet they will have a totally different story than what i read here...

And do you think the TV members, mostly farangs, mostly only speaking English, know the truth? 555

Well the farangs on this forum can see the pictures and video's, if the story they come up with doesn't comply with those images we know the truth is not being told. 

 

Like they said he shot the armory guard, well you can't hide something like that...There's so many things wrong in this whole story that there's no easy way out for the army. Yes it was a crazy guy doing all this but they gave him the opportunity to do it all.

[Damrongsak]

22 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

Long ago, I was part of a shooting club; I owned a French brand 22 LR competition rifle;
I would have liked to buy an Anschutz ( german made ) but it was much more expensive than my MAB (Manufacture d'Armes de Bayonne);
When I moved with it, the breech was never in the same box as the rifle and the ammunition were in a third place.

Very long ago my brother and I in the USA went to my grandparents farm on an airplane.  Two un-accompanied minors and we carried our .22 rifles on board.  The stewardess helped us stow them in a forward coat locker. They weren't loaded - the ammo was in a zipper pocket on the outside of the case.  No big deal.

[justin case]

no m60 on the picture and the "sniper" rifle cartridge seem to be .22 not .223

[Damrongsak]

3 minutes ago, justin case said:

no m60 on the picture and the "sniper" rifle cartridge seem to be .22 not .223

Yeah, that picture is suspect. A .22 and a shotgun.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Damrongsak

[Yadon Toploy]

There were pictures if the M60 on the ground after he threw it away so he did have one.

[bristolgeoff]

he shot his commander was trained by army and knew the rules of the base.he could have done or taken anything I imagine

[Mark mark]

Posted in How did shooter get weapons used in deadly Korat shooting?

Well, ... Just such a Total Tragedy ! and I do feel very sorry for the families and also the injured People !!!   But possibly something might just come out of it Re Gun Control, ... which would be in ALL of our world's benefit. .... Like after the Pt Author Massacre, in Tasmania Australia another Massacre almost the same as this one only the shooter was mentally deficient, not a militarily guy like here, and about the same number of Dead in that one as here I think ? After that John Howard's Gun Buy back was a VERY GOOD I think, like very good !   The gun advocates all say "Welll the criminals can all get them any way" ... but I say,... "Well OK, ... but the criminals are out side the law, and we usually just hut them down, as much as we can, given the usual legal restraints" ... (Like some dubious Human beings have atomic Bombs ! and we can do little about that) .... Like if a Criminal is likely to use a gun, for a massacre, then the Cops at least know who they are, and where they are !!! usually I think. ...   "It's not Guns that Kill people, it is People that Kill people" ! ? So they say, .... Well, "People that have access to a high standard of automatic Guns, ..... Kill, A LOT MORE PEOPLE !    Yes Howard's Gun Buy back was a VERY GOOD THING. and it WAS triggered, by the Port Anther Massacre. Which was almost the same as this one. .... And I think that these has not been a repeat of that size of shooting even close ! in Australia Since.   Hopefully Thailand will learn from this. ... and well also from the Lop-bury Gold shop incident, like which had a pretty similar message, .. Small to mid level, official People, ... who have access to totally inappropriate fire arms.    Leta just, .... Limit ALL peoples access to High power and capacity Fire Arms !!!

[busa]

5 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Yeah, that picture is suspect. A .22 and a shotgun.

I would have thought the so called experienced army veteran would have taken better designed weapons than a bolt action 22lr and 12ga pump action for his rampage. 
doubt he had M60 as the little weasel would struggle to carry it and 1 can of belted ammo. 
Thai army process M4 & 16’s etc which by design are more effective in these environments. Most people have a 22lr and 12ga behind the door in Thailand ( more common than u think) doubt he broke into base armoury, but we will never know. 

 

[Artisi]

29 minutes ago, busa said:

I would have thought the so called experienced army veteran would have taken better designed weapons than a bolt action 22lr and 12ga pump action for his rampage. 
doubt he had M60 as the little weasel would struggle to carry it and 1 can of belted ammo. 
Thai army process M4 & 16’s etc which by design are more effective in these environments. Most people have a 22lr and 12ga behind the door in Thailand ( more common than u think) doubt he broke into base armoury, but we will never know. 

 

Maybe the weapons were switched for the photo, can't have anyone thinking the military are a bunch of amature - unlike the current pm who just happens to be part of the same group. 

[anchadian]

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/korat-gunman-owned-5-guns-bought-under-army-welfare-program/

 

akrapanth Thomma, the gunman who shot 30 people dead during a rampage in Nakhon Ratchasima over the weekend, owned five legally-registered guns, including three pistols, one shotgun and a rifle, which were all bought under the Army’s “welfare gun” program, Army Commander-in-Chief General Apirat Kongsompong told a news conference this morning (Tuesday).

[Artisi]

12 minutes ago, anchadian said:

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/korat-gunman-owned-5-guns-bought-under-army-welfare-program/

 

akrapanth Thomma, the gunman who shot 30 people dead during a rampage in Nakhon Ratchasima over the weekend, owned five legally-registered guns, including three pistols, one shotgun and a rifle, which were all bought under the Army’s “welfare gun” program, Army Commander-in-Chief General Apirat Kongsompong told a news conference this morning (Tuesday).

The fix is in, we are blameless

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, anchadian said:

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/korat-gunman-owned-5-guns-bought-under-army-welfare-program/

 

akrapanth Thomma, the gunman who shot 30 people dead during a rampage in Nakhon Ratchasima over the weekend, owned five legally-registered guns, including three pistols, one shotgun and a rifle, which were all bought under the Army’s “welfare gun” program, Army Commander-in-Chief General Apirat Kongsompong told a news conference this morning (Tuesday).

 

In other words, the police and the military are providing low-cost guns to service members who can turn around and resell them for a profit to who knows who, leading to a proliferation of guns in the hands of private citizens here. That's "gun welfare" all right!!!
 

Quote

 

In most cases, guns bought under this program are resold to private individuals at a profit, but still at lower than market prices.  The program is also known as a means to beat the gun import quotas, under which each gun dealer is allocated a very limited quota per year, especially for pistols.

 

 

Hence you have scenes on the streets like this:

 

[overherebc]

On 2/10/2020 at 9:52 AM, MikeN said:

Reading between the lines of the story in the “unquotable paper”, he was able to steal the weapons because they were stored complete, and with ammunition, in an insecure facility.

 As I mentioned in another thread, standard practice during my military career was to store the bolt mechanisms in one strong room, the body of the weapon in another, and ammunition in a completely separate location. All were kept locked and required 2 sets of keys, which were kept in 2 separate safes. So virtually impossible for anybody to gain access to the weapons illegally.

 Obviously the RTA don’t have the same sense of security.

My experience a little different. One secure are for weapons and one for ammo. The ammo store held the mags and rounds the armoury fully assembled weapons.

[WalkingOrders]

No public outcry that a senior enlisted man was in a business arrangement with family member of his commanding officer?

No dual key arrangement system in the armory? No special additional dual key locked cages for the heavy stuff? Or did he shoot both? Was he a keyholder and in arrangement with his apparent biz partner (even if not directly, his CO)? Should be a fast open and close, and the person obtaining weapon should be outside. But I suppose a loophole existed. The head of Thai army needs to step down. No punishment, just career over. It is all very sad, the poor families of the dead.

[Artisi]

2 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

No public outcry that a senior enlisted man was in a business arrangement with family member of his commanding officer?

No dual key arrangement system in the armory? No special additional dual key locked cages for the heavy stuff? Or did he shoot both? Was he a keyholder and in arrangement with his apparent biz partner (even if not directly, his CO)? Should be a fast open and close, and the person obtaining weapon should be outside. But I suppose a loophole existed. The head of Thai army needs to step down. No punishment, just career over. It is all very sad, the poor families of the dead.

with Cha Cha being ex military, don 't even think of any change or comment - other than we did nothing wrong.

[dayward1]

The kid on the motorbike is what hurts my heart. Why shoot him? Maybe he was a related do gooder? He was on a Wave though, not a honda 500000 cc.

[dayward1]

I keep looking for the M60. Where is it? There is no squad weapon that I can see. An M60 is is a .30 caliber belt fed machine gun from the '60s that required a crew to use. You can't carry the gun AND enough ammo.

 

Have you ever seen or bought a green ammo box from the Army/Navy store that said 'Caliber 7.62 NATO' 

From the pics that I have seen, the only American firearm that he had was a 10-22 and a Remington 12 gauge. Those will have been bought, not taken from a military base.

 

7.62 NATO for an 'M60' is .308. The cycle rate for an M60 is low, the reload time would be detrimental to a mall shooter (unless somebody actually made this old, antiquated gun accept a magazine); even then, you're not gonna shoulder it!

 

Is the Thai army using 5o year old weapons left over from the Vietnam war?

 

 

[chickenslegs]

3 minutes ago, dayward1 said:

I keep looking for the M60. Where is it? There is no squad weapon that I can see. An M60 is is a .30 caliber belt fed machine gun from the '60s that required a crew to use. You can't carry the gun AND enough ammo.

 

Have you ever seen or bought a green ammo box from the Army/Navy store that said 'Caliber 7.62 NATO' 

From the pics that I have seen, the only American firearm that he had was a 10-22 and a Remington 12 gauge. Those will have been bought, not taken from a military base.

 

7.62 NATO for an 'M60' is .308. The cycle rate for an M60 is low, the reload time would be detrimental to a mall shooter (unless somebody actually made this old, antiquated gun accept a magazine); even then, you're not gonna shoulder it!

 

Is the Thai army using 5o year old weapons left over from the Vietnam war?

 

 

Is it possible that the weapon is an M16?

Easy to misinterpret sixteen as sixty.

[dayward1]

@chickenslegs   I can see your point, but America hasn't used an M16 for a number of years. This guy must have had access to old stock as USA "stopped supporting" them.

 

 I have pretty extensive footage of it all. He does use a battle rifle (Chinese H&k variant?) I can't really tell what it is. It  is a .223 though. 

 

The problem is, the news will have you thinking the <deleted> was walking around like Rambo with belts wrapped around him, feeding his machine gun.