Getting real about costs

[ChaiyaTH]

8 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

It doesn't take 500K to move home, it takes a little planning where you will live/work and 3 air tickets.

Why is it that people always seem to know things, they are impossibly able to know?

It would take 500K to move back, for starters, because a personal house + my son registered there is one of the requirements getting her a visa.
Not even going to bother explaining you all of it, but it is going to cost at least 400K baht, and you want some buffer space as well.

You generalise young people as well, I did manage to take care of all of that, that is exactly the reason I can not touch that money too.
This means, the 400-500K I will waste on moving us, will be saved up separated. I do not mess with my long term savings for retirement.

Surely I could take a hit out of business cashflow if it were an emergency, but this would not be good. So I see it is a non option unless life threatening.

I would actually rather state that the older generation (10-15 years older than me being near 30) are very naive and bad with savings,
specially knowing how many retirees do not even have 1M baht in cash savings (I do understand those who have it but not willing to deposit 800K though).

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[codebunny]

3 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Young people never, never, never realize the value of savings, 401K matching, pension etc. that they can build up in the west.

Young people can't create savings, because the cost of living in most countries is too high.

This is mostly to do with increasing land prices due to increasing population/immigration, that feeds into the cost of everything. Pension contributions in the west are a perk, but they even tax your pensions, which I find bizarre... it's getting to the point where you can't afford to live in the west unless you were OK before the start of this century. In a newspaper today it was reported that even bank staff in the UK are struggling to make ends meet!

 

Thailand's population isn't increasing anything like it's neighbours, and in fact is ageing now, but they don't have a welfare state in place, they rely on cultural traditions, and even in legislation children have to care for their parents I believe.

 

Being in Thailand for some people means they can legally avoid tax and start to save, rather than have a third, two-fifths, or more of your income hammered for tax before it even lands in your account in the west.

[bwpage3]

6 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Why is it that people always seem to know things, they are impossibly able to know?

It would take 500K to move back, for starters, because a personal house + my son registered there is one of the requirements getting her a visa.
Not even going to bother explaining you all of it, but it is going to cost at least 400K baht, and you want some buffer space as well.

You generalise young people as well, I did manage to take care of all of that, that is exactly the reason I can not touch that money too.
This means, the 400-500K I will waste on moving us, will be saved up separated. I do not mess with my long term savings for retirement.

Surely I could take a hit out of business cashflow if it were an emergency, but this would not be good. So I see it is a non option unless life threatening.

I would actually rather state that the older generation (10-15 years older than me being near 30) are very naive and bad with savings,
specially knowing how many retirees do not even have 1M baht in cash savings (I do understand those who have it but not willing to deposit 800K though).

How is impossible to know when I moved back to the west after living in Thailand for 10+ years with my wife and son?

 

[gk10002000]

I don't see much there about medical insurance for you or the girl or the baby, nor for any sort of accident insurance.  I guess since you are not driving a car or a motorbike, car insurance is not really applicable.  I think your costs reflect a not spartan and perhaps very realistic lifestyle.  The 10,000 baht for yourself while adds up, is only $300 USD a month.  I know when I am visiting, while I am not lavish, it is not hard to spend that.  A few Western meals a week can add up over one month's time

[bwpage3]

3 minutes ago, codebunny said:

Young people can't create savings, because the cost of living in most countries is too high.

This is mostly to do with increasing land prices due to increasing population/immigration, that feeds into the cost of everything. Pension contributions in the west are a perk, but they even tax your pensions, which I find bizarre... it's getting to the point where you can't afford to live in the west unless you were OK before the start of this century. In a newspaper today it was reported that even bank staff in the UK are struggling to make ends meet!

 

Thailand's population isn't increasing anything like it's neighbours, and in fact is ageing now, but they don't have a welfare state in place, they rely on cultural traditions, and even in legislation children have to care for their parents I believe.

 

Being in Thailand for some people means they can legally avoid tax and start to save, rather than have a third, two-fifths, or more of your income hammered for tax before it even lands in your account in the west.

I moved back to the US from Thailand (10 years), seven years ago.

 

My employer matches 65% of my own 401K contribution and that is invested in different funds they offer. This year earned 12.9% (I am in the no risk funds due to my age). There are ways to move that over when you retire to avoid tax. Paying a max into the social security.  Also have a company pension. I have another pension from working previously for a company for 15 years before I moved to Thailand. I save another US $25K a year

 

We have a house here in florida in excess of US $300,000+

 

Kid is at the University of Florida

 

The point is it is not impossible to move back and afford a life in the west.

 

When I left Thailand I had to leave my family behind for over a year + waiting for their VISA's

 

I had one suitcase and a laptop.

 

I did have a new job in the USA lined up.

 

I also had the money to buy a car when I landed in Chicago.

 

Fast forward, wife is a US citizen, we are living 100 times better than we did in Thailand.

 

Anything is possible

 

 

 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

17 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

How is impossible to know when I moved back to the west after living in Thailand for 10+ years with my wife and son?

 

Because you do not know anyone their personal situation, where they will have or get to live, what costs they have to make that possible.
As well which other costs they will make beforehand by leaving, as of whatever it may be. You simply can not and do not know that, so do not be the judge of it.

Just for the airplane tickets + finishing things here + lawyer fee / visa wife in total we will be 120K baht lighter already.
To get into a house, initially, I would be losing 60K baht just to get the keys. Then the floors, walls, curtains etc will make it 100K.

Then we will need all the furniture, even if on budget at first, another 150K baht approx. A cheap car will be needed, for work too, another 50K.
Not starting about some other things yet, but just this very very bottom estimate makes it 420K baht already.

No we could not live in with family for free, this is not realistic, only if we fled due to some life threatening event and even then very temporary.
Neither would I be working anywhere near my parents homes.

On top of all this, there should be some additional buffer, so my wife can adjust to life and I would not be rushed into a <deleted>ty job (if I do chose to get employed over business). So yeah, a 500K estimate is actually nothing much at all. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[ChaiyaTH]

17 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I don't see much there about medical insurance for you or the girl or the baby, nor for any sort of accident insurance.  I guess since you are not driving a car or a motorbike, car insurance is not really applicable.  I think your costs reflect a not spartan and perhaps very realistic lifestyle.  The 10,000 baht for yourself while adds up, is only $300 USD a month.  I know when I am visiting, while I am not lavish, it is not hard to spend that.  A few Western meals a week can add up over one month's time

Read the topic and you would know already.... 2500B a month for Int. proper insurance incl. accidents / holiday except USA and Canada.

My costs are not spartan nor luxury indeed, this is just very basic middle class, assuming you want healthy food, good school and things like that.
The rent we pay now is very low already too, I really just stated minimums without getting miserable.

But for some good fun and life it would easily be 10-15K baht a month more.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[clarky cat]

I really don't understand why people have children, utter madness

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, clarky cat said:

I really don't understand why people have children, utter madness

especially why anyone had you. LOL 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by sirineou

[ChaiyaTH]

5 minutes ago, clarky cat said:

I really don't understand why people have children, utter madness

I said the same one day, then I stopped saying it and now I say it again.

But to put things in perspective, if I would be living back home and my girlfriend been Dutch, we would have little to complain about, even with minimum wage jobs. I feel sorry for the Thais instead, and then you even see many of them with 2-3 kids, like <deleted>, didn't they get the message with the first one?

I plan to have a little operation done on my balls to avoid any other baby to come on this planet. Anti conception failed us.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[NorthernRyland]

I feel your pain my friend. I just got back from one year working in the United States and after being in Thailand for ages and it's becoming clear Thailand is no longer that cheap once you factor in QUALITY.  

 

Sure rent is cheap but the house is <deleted>. Sure food is cheap but it's low quality stir fried stuff that is 80% rice. My Macbook just died and buying a new one comes with a massive premium. The only thing hands down cheaper is labor but how many motorbike repairs and massages do I really purchase anyways?

 

I've been back one month now but the feeling hasn't left, that I'm not getting a good deal and I should be on my way sooner rather than later.

 

What is the cost of constant noise, pollution and dangerous roads??? Me and my girlfriend are afraid to cross little sois because "big bikes" and crazy kids go racing down them. What's the cost of the stress incurred on us??

[ChaiyaTH]

55 minutes ago, Pravda said:

This.

 

Self employed in Thailand is a disaster in the making. I can expand on this a bit especially if this business is online/digital nomad kind of thing. Especially since making a pittance of 100k baht a month,

 

Go home.

Been here for over 8 years, no problems at all. That besides, the risk would be as high back home as it is here business wise, the difference now is just the child, not the actual business or income. Being self employed in Thailand makes it no different except that back home you could right away take a normal job.

The pittance of 100k baht a month? Guess you are in the clouds somewhere or from USA and quoting 200K salaries while their rent is 100K... 

Most people have to work fulltime for that money, many will even get less than 55-70K baht a month in Europe. Unless we are going to show off with numbers before taxes.

But I guess I am the only one, of the most recent replying people here, that thinks 100K net income, while living in Thailand, working 20 hours a week, is very nice and good. Can tell you that most of my friends earning near double, but being bound to their office desks, would beg me to change with them, for the sake of freedom.

Also unsure why everyone is talking about how much I earn and wether that is a little or a lot. The topic is about costs in Thailand with a small family, not about my or other people their income and wether that is a poor or well paid job / business.

Prefer people to not bother replying, if they can not contribute on topic, wastes everyone their time who wants to look up relevant posts later on.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[NorthernRyland]

3 hours ago, varun said:

120K baht/month is actually a lower end salary for an expat.

what percentage of the country earn 120k/month? I've never met a Thai person that earns more than 60k where I am in Chiang Mai. I know they're out there but isn't this the 1%? That doesn't feel right to me that you'd move to Thailand and then expect to live better than basically all the other Thais you'll ever met.

[ChaiyaTH]

11 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I feel your pain my friend. I just got back from one year working in the United States and after being in Thailand for ages and it's becoming clear Thailand is no longer that cheap once you factor in QUALITY.  

 

Sure rent is cheap but the house is <deleted>. Sure food is cheap but it's low quality stir fried stuff that is 80% rice. My Macbook just died and buying a new one comes with a massive premium. The only thing hands down cheaper is labor but how many motorbike repairs and massages do I really purchase anyways?

 

I've been back one month now but the feeling hasn't left, that I'm not getting a good deal and I should be on my way sooner rather than later.

 

What is the cost of constant noise, pollution and dangerous roads??? Me and my girlfriend are afraid to cross little sois because "big bikes" and crazy kids go racing down them. What's the cost of the stress incurred on us??

Yes I am lucky to rent a brand new house for this money but I can see it tearing down now already, happy I did not buy one.
If you want quality food, even cooking at home, it easily adds on the figures. If you indeed want unhealthy and cheap street food, it can still be relatively cheaper.

And many things are actually more expensive, to get a proper haircut at some average shop, they easily charge 200B nowadays.
The Turkish shop in my hometown just charges slightly more and does the job much much better and detailed.

The cheap massages are often <deleted>ty, the proper ones are almost of similar prices too. The motorbike fix shop is just really cheap, can't argue with that one...
Most quality things are the same or higher price basically. 

I concluded myself that Thailand is a better place if you really have no options and a tiny budget (compared to back home). In most other scenarios it is a much better deal to live and work in a western country and just come to Thailand on holidays. 

I also realised that nothing ever really changes here, even if you leave for years, you come back to find everything the same (except more condo's and malls etc).
So there is nothing to miss out on, often people do not even really notice that you have been away hehe.

Overall the only thing that is still very nice and important to me, is that it is never cold and most times sunny. However, I could find this in many other countries too.

[ChaiyaTH]

7 minutes ago, genericptr said:

what percentage of the country earn 120k/month? I've never met a Thai person that earns more than 60k where I am in Chiang Mai. I know they're out there but isn't this the 1%? That doesn't feel right to me that you'd move to Thailand and then expect to live better than basically all the other Thais you'll ever met.

He meant expats (guys who come to work here with automotive companies and earn like 280K a month). I met quite a few when I was living in Bangkok, they would always ring the bell and spend insane amounts. Do not think they hang around the north a lot.

Anyway, some people here are in the clouds and dreaming. Even in Spain and Portugal most people only earn 1200 a month (40K baht). 
Many many more people in my home country, only earn around 50-60K baht. Their hourly rate might be ok but they will only get a 30 hour weekly contract. 

Yeah, one could earn 2200-2600 euro a month after taxes with the good jobs but there are not that many people who do so nowadays. 
Even if they do, they are always working and can not leave whenever they want. I would personally value free time and less pay more, free time at a old age with possibly poor health is pointless. I enjoy life much more by not working full time + forced into a office.

So I am certainly not complaining about my current earnings and time spent, I just notice how much money goes down the drain in Thailand,
and it is not really giving me anything in return too. I would lose the same by living in Spain or Portugal, not much more in Netherlands.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[codebunny]

21 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I feel your pain my friend. I just got back from one year working in the United States and after being in Thailand for ages and it's becoming clear Thailand is no longer that cheap once you factor in QUALITY.  

 

Sure rent is cheap but the house is <deleted>. Sure food is cheap but it's low quality stir fried stuff that is 80% rice. My Macbook just died and buying a new one comes with a massive premium. The only thing hands down cheaper is labor but how many motorbike repairs and massages do I really purchase anyways?

 

I've been back one month now but the feeling hasn't left, that I'm not getting a good deal and I should be on my way sooner rather than later.

 

What is the cost of constant noise, pollution and dangerous roads??? Me and my girlfriend are afraid to cross little sois because "big bikes" and crazy kids go racing down them. What's the cost of the stress incurred on us??

It seems the main thing Thailand has to offer is slim young women, which where I am is still the case, and they seem a lot slimmer and younger-looking than the waynettas and tracies of blighty.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, codebunny said:

Young people can't create savings, because the cost of living in most countries is too high.

I saved 20k USD last year in South Carolina on a 47k job. Biked to work, ate at home and some lunches out. Cheap rent and cheap food. I could buy a house in the city if I kept that up for 6 years.

[bwpage3]

20 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Because you do not know anyone their personal situation, where they will have or get to live, what costs they have to make that possible.
As well which other costs they will make beforehand by leaving, as of whatever it may be. You simply can not and do not know that, so do not be the judge of it.

Just for the airplane tickets + finishing things here + lawyer fee / visa wife in total we will be 120K baht lighter already.
To get into a house, initially, I would be losing 60K baht just to get the keys. Then the floors, walls, curtains etc will make it 100K.

Then we will need all the furniture, even if on budget at first, another 150K baht approx. A cheap car will be needed, for work too, another 50K.
Not starting about some other things yet, but just this very very bottom estimate makes it 420K baht already.

No we could not live in with family for free, this is not realistic, only if we fled due to some life threatening event and even then very temporary.
Neither would I be working anywhere near my parents homes.

On top of all this, there should be some additional buffer, so my wife can adjust to life and I would not be rushed into a <deleted>ty job (if I do chose to get employed over business). So yeah, a 500K estimate is actually nothing much at all. 

<snip>

 

I just did it, how would I not know the cost of it? Of everything. From the VISA, to supporting 2 households for 15 months, to moving, buying a house, cars, etc. 

 

Did it all and know the costs very well.

 

I didn't have any place to live when I returned to the USA and lived in a hotel until I did find a place.

 

Getting married and raising a family isn't cheap. You should have known this prior.

 

Our Son's College Tuition is US $100,000 and I am not on here complaining. That's part of life. That's part of being a parent. That was part of the plan all along.

 

Be a man an accept responsibility like every other man raising a family has done before you. 

 

Put your effort into solutions and not complaining. Give your family a better life.

 

Did you actually think you would hide out in Thailand the rest of your life at 43/baht?

 

Come one man, the whole world is changing and getting more expensive. 

 

You either adapt or get sucked up.

[codebunny]

Just now, genericptr said:

I saved 20k USD last year in South Carolina on a 47k job. Biked to work, ate at home and some lunches out. Cheap rent and cheap food. I could buy a house in the city if I kept that up for 6 years.

Well that's America... Europe, UK and Australia are nothing like that.

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, codebunny said:

Well that's America... Europe, UK and Australia are nothing like that.

Just because in USA it is each for themselves and little of proper social welfare systems.
It is easy to earn a lot of cash, invest it to your own likes and get high yields, easy access to credit for business and personal too.

Seems many of the Americans do not understand it works different in Europe etc. I would estimate, if you live in the cheapest student room in Netherlands and work your ass off like crazy, you might be able to save up 10K in a year. No way otherwise. 47K job would be taxed BIG time too.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[codebunny]

1 minute ago, bwpage3 said:

Can you read?

 

I just did it, how would I not know the cost of it? Of everything. From the VISA, to supporting 2 households for 15 months, to moving, buying a house, cars, etc. 

 

Did it all and know the costs very well.

 

I didn't have any place to live when I returned to the USA and lived in a hotel until I did find a place.

 

Getting married and raising a family isn't cheap. You should have known this prior.

 

Our Son's College Tuition is US $100,000 and I am not on here complaining. That's part of life. That's part of being a parent. That was part of the plan all along.

 

Be a man an accept responsibility like every other man raising a family has done before you. 

 

Put your effort into solutions and not complaining. Give your family a better life.

 

Did you actually think you would hide out in Thailand the rest of your life at 43/baht?

 

Come one man, the whole world is changing and getting more expensive. 

 

You either adapt or get sucked up.

This is the sort of mentality that you leave the west to avoid. America really isn't comparable to Europe at all... the things that Americans are used to being possible or easy, really aren't in Europe. The UK is not unlike New York state, except a bit bigger and a bit more expensive.

[NorthernRyland]

10 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I also realised that nothing ever really changes here, even if you leave for years, you come back to find everything the same (except more condo's and malls etc).

Personally Chiang Mai has been a nightmare for me since coming back and I've been complaining for years like an idiot. Every year it gets more congested, polluted and difficult to do simple things due to poor infrastructure/planning. My life was so much better here when I came in 2005. I can't bear to think what will happen if I left for 10 years and back.

 

To each his own, good luck to you.

[NorthernRyland]

7 minutes ago, codebunny said:

It seems the main thing Thailand has to offer is slim young women, which where I am is still the case, and they seem a lot slimmer and younger-looking than the waynettas and tracies of blighty.

I forgot to mention the obvious. ???? But the OP already got the girl and has the kid and he can take that to his grave if he so choses.

[codebunny]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Just because in USA it is each for themselves and little of proper social welfare systems.
It is easy to earn a lot of cash, invest it to your own likes and get high yields, easy access to credit for business and personal too.

Seems many of the Americans do not understand it works different in Europe etc. I would estimate, if you live in the cheapest student room in Netherlands and work your ass off like crazy, you might be able to save up 10K in a year. No way otherwise. 47K job would be taxed BIG time too.

Yeah, I mean tax in many European countries, not just EU, Norway too, is super high, and everything you buy is expensive. I was in Denmark not long ago, and normal beer was like 9GBP = 360THB - just a bottle of beer or a non-pint. Americans don't pay anything like the tax we do on car fuel either.

[NorthernRyland]

6 minutes ago, codebunny said:

Well that's America... Europe, UK and Australia are nothing like that.

Immigrate to the US. ???? I would love to see more Europeans in the New World.

[ChaiyaTH]

1 minute ago, genericptr said:

My life was so much better here when I came in 2005. I can't bear to think what will happen if I left for 10 years and back.

Well those days were unique, as well that it helps that you were a new arrival at that time. 
I never really knew or bothered with any domestic affairs or things in the first years in Thailand and was still wearing pink glasses.

Even that all changed, I still did not really see and know all the things I hate so much now, mostly since having a child as you then get sucked into real Thai family realities.
If you are just a lone farang with monthly deposits of 30K up, you are not experiencing any of these 'local' problems.

I am not a fan of CM anymore too, it is just the easiest for now as we already live here and also one of the cheapest locations with International schools (if we would stay for X years more).

[codebunny]

...but then the USA will try to tax me wherever I go, which the UK government doesn't, which is a perquisite I don't want to lose. Maybe it's better being Canadian?

[CharlieH]

Troll post and off topic removed

 

Given the deterioration, this topic is now CLOSED.