The Climate Crisis, the reality, the challenges and indeed the ways forward!

[winslowsjardine]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Wow! If anything demonstrates a profound lack of knowledge it's a comment like this. For these photos to be validly compared you'd have to know what time they were taken in relation to high and low tide for those particular days And even that wouldn't be enough since wind can influence the height of the tide as well.

Way to go!

[Kurtf]

To all you global warming alarmists, are you aware of how much carbon is put into the atmosphere by one volcano erupting? Waaay more than humans do. Forcing all humans on the planet to do anything to lower their carbon footprint is first of all impossible. Secondly the impact on the climate would be negligible even if you could force everyone to comply. The pollution of the oceans by plastic is another exercise in futility. San Jose, Ca. Has eliminated all plastic bags in grocery stores. Plastic straws have been banned. Thailand has stopped giving out plastic bags. Wonderful you say. However 40% of the world population is in China and India. They haven't stopped using plastic bags. So what was accomplished? The people of San Jose and Thailand have been inconvenienced. And that's it.

7 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

The Role of Human Activity

 

In its Fifth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 95 percent probability that human activities over the past 50 years have warmed our planet.

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric carbon dioxide levels from 280 parts per million to 412 parts per million in the last 150 years. The panel also concluded there's a better than 95 percent probability that human-produced greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have caused much of the observed increase in Earth's temperatures over the past 50 years.

https://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

 

I have to post this often ... many are still denying the facts ... why ?

As soon as I read "under the auspices of the UN" I knew it was BS. I want to know what caused climate changes up and down 200 years ago. You know way before there were SUV's. For every scientist or study saying it's all because of humans there are twice as many saying if you believe the <deleted> being shovelled at you, you deserve to be herded around like sheep and pay all the taxes that they will require to make the world "safe" again. Why are ma y denying your "facts"? Because they are refuted by thousands of other scientists who say don't be stupid and buy the <deleted> you are being fed by global alarmists. 

[WalkingOrders]

For all the nonsense posted as fact in this post I have only one thing to say and this is very important:

 

Please provide exact references To include chapter, page, and paragraph for every single number, or claim as truth or fact, probable outcome, etc you post here as fact.

 

Until you do, every claim you make, I consider to be nothing but typical nonsense posted by climate alarmists. No discussion can even take place until you do this, and please do not claim it is my responsibility to refute all of your claims. You must provide exact source to support your claims. I view all as nothing more then nonsensical until you do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by WalkingOrders
Clarity

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

The scientific evidence, is unequivocal about the fact that humans are the cause of global warming

If that is true, then the extra billions of people expected in the next decades can only increase the warming regardless of how many windmills are built. Tell me if that isn't correct.

[from the home of CC]

money through fear, it's been tried and true..

[nobodysfriend]

15 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

For all the nonsense posted as fact in this post I have only one thing to say and this is very important:

 

Please provide exact references To include chapter, page, and paragraph for every single number you post here as fact.

 

Until you do, every claim you make, I consider to be nothing but typical nonsense posted by climate alarmists. No discussion can even take place until you do this, and please do not claim it is my responsibility to refute all of your claims. You must provide exact source to support your claims. I view all as nothing more then nonsensical until you do

So , here we go ...

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

Data is from NASA, who , of course are all idiots , compared to you and many other time wasting deniers on this forum ...

 

I am bored to read the always same BS .

It is REAL !

Denying it does not help anything ...

 

WAKE UP ! ( OR CONTINUE SLEEPING , UP TO YOU ...)

 

 

 

 

Climate Change: How Do We Know?

This graph, based on the comparison of atmospheric samples contained in ice cores and more recent direct measurements, provides evidence that atmospheric CO₂ has increased since the Industrial Revolution. (Credit: Luthi, D., et al.. 2008; Etheridge, D.M., et al. 2010; Vostok ice core data/J.R. Petit et al.; NOAA Mauna Loa CO₂ record.) Find out more about ice cores (external site).

› en español

The Earth's climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat, with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 11,700 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era — and of human civilization. Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives.

 

Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal.

- Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

 

The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is extremely likely (greater than 95 percent probability) to be the result of human activity since the mid-20^th century and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented over decades to millennia.¹

Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. This body of data, collected over many years, reveals the signals of a changing climate.

The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century.² Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many instruments flown by NASA. There is no question that increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response.

Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in greenhouse gas levels. Ancient evidence can also be found in tree rings, ocean sediments, coral reefs, and layers of sedimentary rocks. This ancient, or paleoclimate, evidence reveals that current warming is occurring roughly ten times faster than the average rate of ice-age-recovery warming.³

The evidence for rapid climate change is compelling:

---

Global Temperature Rise

• 

  The planet's average surface temperature has risen about 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit (0.9 degrees Celsius) since the late 19th century, a change driven largely by increased carbon dioxide and other human-made emissions into the atmosphere.⁴ Most of the warming occurred in the past 35 years, with the five warmest years on record taking place since 2010. Not only was 2016 the warmest year on record, but eight of the 12 months that make up the year — from January through September, with the exception of June — were the warmest on record for those respective months. ⁵

+ more

---

Warming Oceans

• 

  The oceans have absorbed much of this increased heat, with the top 700 meters (about 2,300 feet) of ocean showing warming of more than 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit since 1969.⁶

+ more

---

Shrinking Ice Sheets

• 

  The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA's Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost an average of 286 billion tons of ice per year between 1993 and 2016, while Antarctica lost about 127 billion tons of ice per year during the same time period. The rate of Antarctica ice mass loss has tripled in the last decade.⁷

   

  Image: Flowing meltwater from the Greenland ice sheet

+ more

---

Glacial Retreat

• 

  Glaciers are retreating almost everywhere around the world — including in the Alps, Himalayas, Andes, Rockies, Alaska and Africa.⁸

   

  Image: The disappearing snowcap of Mount Kilimanjaro, from space.

+ more

---

Decreased Snow Cover

• 

  Satellite observations reveal that the amount of spring snow cover in the Northern Hemisphere has decreased over the past five decades and that the snow is melting earlier.⁹

+ more

---

Sea Level Rise

• 

  Global sea level rose about 8 inches in the last century. The rate in the last two decades, however, is nearly double that of the last century and is accelerating slightly every year.¹⁰

   

  Image: Republic of Maldives: Vulnerable to sea level rise

+ more

---

Declining Arctic Sea Ice

• 

  Both the extent and thickness of Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades.¹¹

   

  Image: Visualization of the 2012 Arctic sea ice minimum, the lowest on record

+ more

---

Extreme Events

• 

  The number of record high temperature events in the United States has been increasing, while the number of record low temperature events has been decreasing, since 1950. The U.S. has also witnessed increasing numbers of intense rainfall events.¹²

+ more

---

Ocean Acidification

• 

  Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the acidity of surface ocean waters has increased by about 30 percent.^13,14 This increase is the result of humans emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and hence more being absorbed into the oceans. The amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the upper layer of the oceans is increasing by about 2 billion tons per year.^15,16

+ more

Quote

 

References

1. IPCC Fifth Assessment Report, Summary for Policymakers

   B.D. Santer et.al., “A search for human influences on the thermal structure of the atmosphere,” Nature vol 382, 4 July 1996, 39-46

   Gabriele C. Hegerl, “Detecting Greenhouse-Gas-Induced Climate Change with an Optimal Fingerprint Method,” Journal of Climate, v. 9, October 1996, 2281-2306

   V. Ramaswamy et.al., “Anthropogenic and Natural Influences in the Evolution of Lower Stratospheric Cooling,” Science 311 (24 February 2006), 1138-1141

   B.D. Santer et.al., “Contributions of Anthropogenic and Natural Forcing to Recent Tropopause Height Changes,” Science vol. 301 (25 July 2003), 479-483.

2. In the 1860s, physicist John Tyndall recognized the Earth's natural greenhouse effect and suggested that slight changes in the atmospheric composition could bring about climatic variations. In 1896, a seminal paper by Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius first predicted that changes in the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere could substantially alter the surface temperature through the greenhouse effect.

3. National Research Council (NRC), 2006. Surface Temperature Reconstructions For the Last 2,000 Years. National Academy Press, Washington, D.C.
   
   http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/page3.php

4. https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/faq/indicators.php

   http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature

   http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp

5. https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20170118/

6. Levitus, S.; Antonov, J.; Boyer, T.; Baranova, O.; Garcia, H.; Locarnini, R.; Mishonov, A.; Reagan, J.; Seidov, D.; Yarosh, E.; Zweng, M. (2017). NCEI ocean heat content, temperature anomalies, salinity anomalies, thermosteric sea level anomalies, halosteric sea level anomalies, and total steric sea level anomalies from 1955 to present calculated from in situ oceanographic subsurface profile data (NCEI Accession 0164586). Version 4.4. NOAA National Centers for Environmental Information. Dataset. doi:10.7289/V53F4MVP

7. https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7159

8. National Snow and Ice Data Center

   World Glacier Monitoring Service

9. National Snow and Ice Data Center

   Robinson, D. A., D. K. Hall, and T. L. Mote. 2014. MEaSUREs Northern Hemisphere Terrestrial Snow Cover Extent Daily 25km EASE-Grid 2.0, Version 1. [Indicate subset used]. Boulder, Colorado USA. NASA National Snow and Ice Data Center Distributed Active Archive Center. doi: https://doi.org/10.5067/MEASURES/CRYOSPHERE/nsidc-0530.001. [Accessed 9/21/18].

   http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/snow_extent.html

   Rutgers University Global Snow Lab, Data History Accessed September 21, 2018.

10. R. S. Nerem, B. D. Beckley, J. T. Fasullo, B. D. Hamlington, D. Masters and G. T. Mitchum. Climate-change–driven accelerated sea-level rise detected in the altimeter era. PNAS, 2018 DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1717312115
11. https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/sea_ice.html

12. USGCRP, 2017: Climate Science Special Report: Fourth National Climate Assessment, Volume I [Wuebbles, D.J., D.W. Fahey, K.A. Hibbard, D.J. Dokken, B.C. Stewart, and T.K. Maycock (eds.)]. U.S. Global Change Research Program, Washington, DC, USA, 470 pp, doi: 10.7930/J0J964J6

13. http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F

14. http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification

15. C. L. Sabine et.al., “The Oceanic Sink for Anthropogenic CO2,” Science vol. 305 (16 July 2004), 367-371

16. Copenhagen Diagnosis, p. 36.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by nobodysfriend

[nobodysfriend]

3 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Here we go, your large post is a cut and paste job of pictured and text not refs that point to nowhere. These are impossible for me to refute as I can't tell the cut and paste from your own words. Lots of unconnected claims. Go back to the original post and just include a parenthetical with source as asked. I am not going to play this oh yeah look at this game with anyone. Further, I said all is suspect without source, I stand by that, and posting and quoting from random links does not make anyone here a scientist. Original post, every claim made provide a source. Then we talk about it.

You ask for sources ?

I hope that is enough ...

Of course , the data is from NASA

 

But you still pretend to know better ?

 

Arrogance paired with Ignorance  ...

 

References

1. IPCC Fifth Assessment Report, Summary for Policymakers

   B.D. Santer et.al., “A search for human influences on the thermal structure of the atmosphere,” Nature vol 382, 4 July 1996, 39-46

   Gabriele C. Hegerl, “Detecting Greenhouse-Gas-Induced Climate Change with an Optimal Fingerprint Method,” Journal of Climate, v. 9, October 1996, 2281-2306

   V. Ramaswamy et.al., “Anthropogenic and Natural Influences in the Evolution of Lower Stratospheric Cooling,” Science 311 (24 February 2006), 1138-1141

   B.D. Santer et.al., “Contributions of Anthropogenic and Natural Forcing to Recent Tropopause Height Changes,” Science vol. 301 (25 July 2003), 479-483.

2. In the 1860s, physicist John Tyndall recognized the Earth's natural greenhouse effect and suggested that slight changes in the atmospheric composition could bring about climatic variations. In 1896, a seminal paper by Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius first predicted that changes in the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere could substantially alter the surface temperature through the greenhouse effect.

3. National Research Council (NRC), 2006. Surface Temperature Reconstructions For the Last 2,000 Years. National Academy Press, Washington, D.C.
   
   http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/page3.php

4. https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/faq/indicators.php

   http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature

   http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp

5. https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20170118/

6. Levitus, S.; Antonov, J.; Boyer, T.; Baranova, O.; Garcia, H.; Locarnini, R.; Mishonov, A.; Reagan, J.; Seidov, D.; Yarosh, E.; Zweng, M. (2017). NCEI ocean heat content, temperature anomalies, salinity anomalies, thermosteric sea level anomalies, halosteric sea level anomalies, and total steric sea level anomalies from 1955 to present calculated from in situ oceanographic subsurface profile data (NCEI Accession 0164586). Version 4.4. NOAA National Centers for Environmental Information. Dataset. doi:10.7289/V53F4MVP

7. https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7159

8. National Snow and Ice Data Center

   World Glacier Monitoring Service

9. National Snow and Ice Data Center

   Robinson, D. A., D. K. Hall, and T. L. Mote. 2014. MEaSUREs Northern Hemisphere Terrestrial Snow Cover Extent Daily 25km EASE-Grid 2.0, Version 1. [Indicate subset used]. Boulder, Colorado USA. NASA National Snow and Ice Data Center Distributed Active Archive Center. doi: https://doi.org/10.5067/MEASURES/CRYOSPHERE/nsidc-0530.001. [Accessed 9/21/18].

   http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/snow_extent.html

   Rutgers University Global Snow Lab, Data History Accessed September 21, 2018.

10. R. S. Nerem, B. D. Beckley, J. T. Fasullo, B. D. Hamlington, D. Masters and G. T. Mitchum. Climate-change–driven accelerated sea-level rise detected in the altimeter era. PNAS, 2018 DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1717312115
11. https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/sea_ice.html

12. USGCRP, 2017: Climate Science Special Report: Fourth National Climate Assessment, Volume I [Wuebbles, D.J., D.W. Fahey, K.A. Hibbard, D.J. Dokken, B.C. Stewart, and T.K. Maycock (eds.)]. U.S. Global Change Research Program, Washington, DC, USA, 470 pp, doi: 10.7930/J0J964J6

13. http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F

14. http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification

15. C. L. Sabine et.al., “The Oceanic Sink for Anthropogenic CO2,” Science vol. 305 (16 July 2004), 367-371

16. Copenhagen Diagnosis, p. 36.

Edited February 12, 2020 by nobodysfriend

[rvaviator]

And in the red corner we have ...

 

 

[nobodysfriend]

7 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Then we talk about it.

WalkingOrders : Talk to yourself , I do not want to talk to you . Too boring ...

Edited February 12, 2020 by nobodysfriend

[WalkingOrders]

For intelligent conversation on climate: judithcurry.com

[nobodysfriend]

3 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

For intelligent conversation on climate: judithcurry.com

NASA's Data is enough for me ... I prefer my curry without Judith ...

[WalkingOrders]

11 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

You ask for sources ?

I hope that is enough ...

Of course , the data is from NASA

 

But you still pretend to know better ?

 

Arrogance paired with Ignorance  ...

 

References

1. IPCC Fifth Assessment Report, Summary for Policymakers

   B.D. Santer et.al., “A search for human influences on the thermal structure of the atmosphere,” Nature vol 382, 4 July 1996, 39-46

   Gabriele C. Hegerl, “Detecting Greenhouse-Gas-Induced Climate Change with an Optimal Fingerprint Method,” Journal of Climate, v. 9, October 1996, 2281-2306

   V. Ramaswamy et.al., “Anthropogenic and Natural Influences in the Evolution of Lower Stratospheric Cooling,” Science 311 (24 February 2006), 1138-1141

   B.D. Santer et.al., “Contributions of Anthropogenic and Natural Forcing to Recent Tropopause Height Changes,” Science vol. 301 (25 July 2003), 479-483.

2. In the 1860s, physicist John Tyndall recognized the Earth's natural greenhouse effect and suggested that slight changes in the atmospheric composition could bring about climatic variations. In 1896, a seminal paper by Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius first predicted that changes in the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere could substantially alter the surface temperature through the greenhouse effect.

3. National Research Council (NRC), 2006. Surface Temperature Reconstructions For the Last 2,000 Years. National Academy Press, Washington, D.C.
   
   http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/page3.php

4. https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/faq/indicators.php

   http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature

   http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp

5. https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20170118/

6. Levitus, S.; Antonov, J.; Boyer, T.; Baranova, O.; Garcia, H.; Locarnini, R.; Mishonov, A.; Reagan, J.; Seidov, D.; Yarosh, E.; Zweng, M. (2017). NCEI ocean heat content, temperature anomalies, salinity anomalies, thermosteric sea level anomalies, halosteric sea level anomalies, and total steric sea level anomalies from 1955 to present calculated from in situ oceanographic subsurface profile data (NCEI Accession 0164586). Version 4.4. NOAA National Centers for Environmental Information. Dataset. doi:10.7289/V53F4MVP

7. https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7159

8. National Snow and Ice Data Center

   World Glacier Monitoring Service

9. National Snow and Ice Data Center

   Robinson, D. A., D. K. Hall, and T. L. Mote. 2014. MEaSUREs Northern Hemisphere Terrestrial Snow Cover Extent Daily 25km EASE-Grid 2.0, Version 1. [Indicate subset used]. Boulder, Colorado USA. NASA National Snow and Ice Data Center Distributed Active Archive Center. doi: https://doi.org/10.5067/MEASURES/CRYOSPHERE/nsidc-0530.001. [Accessed 9/21/18].

   http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/snow_extent.html

   Rutgers University Global Snow Lab, Data History Accessed September 21, 2018.

10. R. S. Nerem, B. D. Beckley, J. T. Fasullo, B. D. Hamlington, D. Masters and G. T. Mitchum. Climate-change–driven accelerated sea-level rise detected in the altimeter era. PNAS, 2018 DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1717312115
11. https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/sea_ice.html

12. USGCRP, 2017: Climate Science Special Report: Fourth National Climate Assessment, Volume I [Wuebbles, D.J., D.W. Fahey, K.A. Hibbard, D.J. Dokken, B.C. Stewart, and T.K. Maycock (eds.)]. U.S. Global Change Research Program, Washington, DC, USA, 470 pp, doi: 10.7930/J0J964J6

13. http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F

14. http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification

15. C. L. Sabine et.al., “The Oceanic Sink for Anthropogenic CO2,” Science vol. 305 (16 July 2004), 367-371

16. Copenhagen Diagnosis, p. 36.

So take this source of yours as example: https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification

What claim is made this source? A discussion of Ocean Co2  absorption, and nothing more. That the acidity levels of the ocean change and Co2 is a factor of feedback in the process, and you think this info snippet proves what? You want play know it all or want to learn? Go here: judithcurry.com

[bristolboy]

58 minutes ago, Kurtf said:

To all you global warming alarmists, are you aware of how much carbon is put into the atmosphere by one volcano erupting? Waaay more than humans do.

Another zombie meme that keeps stalking the internet. Well, let's try one more shot to its metaphorical head:

"According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

So take this source of yours as example: https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification

What claim is made this source? A discussion of Ocean Co2  absorption, and nothing more. That the acidity levels of the ocean change and Co2 is a factor of feedback in the process, and you think this info snippet proves what? You want play know it all or want to learn? Go here: judithcurry.com

The lowering of PH via increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere is something that could be understandably and accurately taught in a first year chemistry class. CO2 and H2O very simple molecules. And how they interact to reach equilibrium is painfully obvious to anyone who doesn't have an ideological commitment to something other than reality.

[WalkingOrders]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The cause is the same, human greed. The novel coronavirus arose from a wild meat market in Wuhan. It is apparently prestigious to consume protein derived from an exotic species, even though exactly the same effect in terms of nutrition is achieved with farmed chicken, fish or soybeans.

There really is only guesswork on how coronavirus jumped species, or even what species it jumped from. Although a villian makes for a better story.

[WalkingOrders]

12 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The lowering of PH via increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere is something that could be understandably and accurately taught in a first year chemistry class. CO2 and H2O very simple molecules. And how they interact to reach equilibrium is painfully obvious to anyone who doesn't have an ideological commitment to something other than reality.

You make my point, so what is yours? You could spend a year reading on the subject, and be no closer to understanding the measurements. I again suggest judithcurry.com if you would like the opportunity to discuss with scientists intimately involved in the topic. It's a place where evidence is debated by those who understand the evidence they are debating.

[bristolboy]

14 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

You make my point, so what is yours? You could spend a year reading on the subject, and be no closer to understanding the measurements. I again suggest judithcurry.com if you would like the opportunity to discuss with scientists intimately involved in the topic. It's a place where evidence is debated by those who understand the evidence they are debating.

Climate myths by Curry	What the Science Says	Usage
"Global warming stopped in 1998, 1995, 2002, 2007, 2010, ????"	Global temperature is still rising and 2010 was the hottest recorded.	1
"Scientists tried to 'hide the decline' in global temperature"	The 'decline' refers to a decline in northern tree-rings, not global temperature, and is openly discussed in papers and the IPCC reports.	1
"IPCC is alarmist"	Numerous papers have documented how IPCC predictions are more likely to underestimate the climate response.	1
"There is no consensus"	97% of climate experts agree humans are causing global warming. https://skepticalscience.com/Judith_Curry_arg.htm https://skepticalscience.com/skeptic_Judith_Curry.htm

[WalkingOrders]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Climate myths by Curry	What the Science Says	Usage
"Global warming stopped in 1998, 1995, 2002, 2007, 2010, ????"	Global temperature is still rising and 2010 was the hottest recorded.	1
"Scientists tried to 'hide the decline' in global temperature"	The 'decline' refers to a decline in northern tree-rings, not global temperature, and is openly discussed in papers and the IPCC reports.	1
"IPCC is alarmist"	Numerous papers have documented how IPCC predictions are more likely to underestimate the climate response.	1
"There is no consensus"	97% of climate experts agree humans are causing global warming. https://skepticalscience.com/Judith_Curry_arg.htm https://skepticalscience.com/skeptic_Judith_Curry.htm

This is childish. You can debate her direct if you like. Start here: https://judithcurry.com/2019/12/23/3-degrees-c/  post a response, but over there those who debate are likely to avoid childsplay. 

[RickBradford]

What? Skeptical Science, the Jussie Smollett of climate websites, offered as an authoritative source? Makes the oft-repeated claim of "far-right denialist website" look very silly indeed.

 

But that's the Green/Left for you - basing their stance on imbecile tripe like that plus unhinged rants from Greta Thunberg and her handlers.

 

Hardly surprising that nobody of any significance is listening.

 

 

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Hardly surprising that nobody of any significance is listening.

I always think one of the biggest indications that the climate science claims are BS, is sea level predictions.

The rich, famous and influential keep buying beach front property, and the banks keep giving home loans on them.

 

If the homes were really going to be underwater in 10-20 years time, how could you possibly get a 30 year loan on them? 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by BritManToo

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Wow! If anything demonstrates a profound lack of knowledge it's a comment like this. For these photos to be validly compared you'd have to know what time they were taken in relation to high and low tide for those particular days And even that wouldn't be enough since wind can influence the height of the tide as well.

The high water mark is visible in both pictures

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

This is childish. You can debate her direct if you like. Start here: https://judithcurry.com/2019/12/23/3-degrees-c/  post a response, but over there those who debate are likely to avoid childsplay. 

On TVF we do the debating on TVF.

 

Doh!

[KP67]

"...continue to consume vast amounts of concrete, a fossil fuel dependent material,..."

 

How is concrete, comprised of stone, sand, lime and water, a fossil fuel dependent material ?  There are no oil products in concrete.

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

This is childish. You can debate her direct if you like. Start here: https://judithcurry.com/2019/12/23/3-degrees-c/  post a response, but over there those who debate are likely to avoid childsplay. 

Judith Curry has been predicting global cooling and claiming that there has been no warming since at least 2002. Here she is in her own words:

“Attention in the public debate seems to be moving away from the 15-17 year ‘pause’ to the cooling since 2002... This period since 2002 is scientifically interesting, since it coincides with the ‘climate shift’ circa 2001/2002posited by Tsonis and others. This shift and the subsequent slight cooling trend provides a rationale for inferring a slight cooling trend over the next decade or so, rather than a flat trend from the 15 yr ‘pause’.”

https://www.climatedepot.com/2013/06/15/forget-the-temperature-plateau-earth-undergoing-global-cooling-since-2002-climate-scientist-dr-judith-curry-attention-in-the-public-debate-seems-to-be-moving-away-from/

(In case you’re wondering about who Tsonis is, in 2010 he predicted a 50 period of global cooling. http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2010/01/uw-milwaukee-professor-predicts-50-years-of-global-cooling/  

 

Curry warned of possible global cooling. “We also see a cooling period starting around the turn of the (21st) century.” She also suggested that the “current cool phase will continue until the 2030s.

https://www.climatedepot.com/2014/09/16/climatologist-dr-judith-curry-warns-of-decades-of-global-cooling-the-current-cool-phase-will-continue-until-the-2030s/

And here is a link to her power point presentation of the speech. You can see how dishonest she is. She starts with 1998, the year of a massive el nino to claim that global warming is no longer happening. El Ninos raise global temperature. So naturally if you start with a massive one there will be a subsequent temperature decline. So where does the year 1998 stand now in the global temperature standings? It is now no longer numbered amongst the 10 hottest years despite the fact that most of the years beating it were not El Nino years. 

 

"Similarly, a Sept. 8, 2013, news story in the Telegraph, a British newspaper, said: "Despite the original forecasts, major climate research centres now accept that there has been a ‘pause’ in global warming since 1997." The story quoted two U.S. professors, Judith Curry of the Georgia Institute of Technology and Anastasios Tsonis of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, as saying the planet appears headed into a cooling period."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/dec/13/barry-smitherman/scientific-consensus-remains-planet-warming/

How wrong can someone be? So very, very wrong.

"The five warmest years on record have all occurred in the last 5 years, with 2019 coming in as the second warmest and 2010-2019 being the warmest decade on record

2019 was almost 0.6 °C warmer than the 1981-2010 average

The average temperature of the last 5 years was between 1.1 and 1.2 °C higher than the pre-industrial level defined by the IPCC"

https://climate.copernicus.eu/copernicus-2019-was-second-warmest-year-and-last-five-years-were-warmest-record

Now it is true that 2016 was the year of a strong El Nino. But that's the only year of the 5 that had a strong El Nino.

Anyway, why should I even bother with someone who has gotten it so massively wrong and is dishonest to boot? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, RickBradford said:

What? Skeptical Science, the Jussie Smollett of climate websites, offered as an authoritative source? Makes the oft-repeated claim of "far-right denialist website" look very silly indeed.

 

But that's the Green/Left for you - basing their stance on imbecile tripe like that plus unhinged rants from Greta Thunberg and her handlers.

 

Hardly surprising that nobody of any significance is listening.

 

 

"In September 2011, the site won the 2011 Eureka Prize from the Australian Museum in the category of Advancement of Climate Change Knowledge.^[22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptical_Science

 

[bristolboy]

If anybody wants a really good laugh, they should go to this page of climatedepot.com

https://www.climatedepot.com/2014/06/29/scientists-and-studies-predict-imminent-global-cooling-ahead-drop-in-global-temps-almost-a-slam-dunk/

Climatedepot.com is a denialist website. And on this page they post the predictions of a veritable rogue's gallery of denialists. Some of the names that will be familiar to those of us have read denialists citations of them. As for their predictions...let's just say that they have not aged well at all. Keep it as a resource the next time their names are brought up in the context of climate change.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, KP67 said:

"...continue to consume vast amounts of concrete, a fossil fuel dependent material,..."

 

How is concrete, comprised of stone, sand, lime and water, a fossil fuel dependent material ?  There are no oil products in concrete.

You do know how concrete is manufactured don’t you.

 

Erm.....?!

[rabas]

1 hour ago, KP67 said:

"...continue to consume vast amounts of concrete, a fossil fuel dependent material,..."

 

How is concrete, comprised of stone, sand, lime and water, a fossil fuel dependent material ?  There are no oil products in concrete.

Cement is made with lime, CaO.  CaO is produced by intensely heating limestone which is CaCO₃. 

 

So CaCO₃. + heat => CaO + CO₂

 

The CO2 returns to the atmosphere from whence it originally came. The limestone is mostly formed by lifeforms that convert CO₂ into CaCO₃ which is left behind in deposits.  The heat comes from burning of fossil fuels which also releases CO₂. The carbon fuel was deposited from plants that removed the CO₂  from the atmosphere.

 

CO₂ is involved with all lifeforms. It is the miracle of life.

 

CO₂ can also be removed from the atmosphere by the weathering of mountains. A generally accepted theory for the extreme drop in atmospheric CO₂ that produced the current ice is the weathering of the massive Himalayas created when the Indian continent collided with Asia.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/94PA00289

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by rabas

[gunderhill]

13 hours ago, Brunolem said:

 

Believe it or not, in the very early stages of life on Earth, simple bacteria managed to completely transform the atmosphere

Over  millions  of  years

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

Cement is made with lime, CaO.  CaO is produced by intensely heating limestone which is CaCO₃. 

 

So CaCO₃. + heat => CaO + CO₂

 

The CO2 returns to the atmosphere from whence it originally came. The limestone is mostly formed by lifeforms that convert CO₂ into CaCO₃ which is left behind in deposits.  The heat comes from burning of fossil fuels which also releases CO₂. The carbon fuel was deposited from plants that removed the CO₂  from the atmosphere.

 

CO₂ is involved with all lifeforms. It is the miracle of life.

 

Yes correct, the industrial release of CO2 that has been locked away in mineral deposits for hundreds of millions of years.